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Pokémon HeartGold & SoulSilver - The Offical Competitive Discussion Thread
- Thread starter RBG
- Start date
- Status
haunter
Banned deucer.
On the other hand, OU has Scizor, Metagross, Lucario, Machamp, Jirachi - who all laugh at its stab attacks while hitting back with powerful stab super-effective moves - and a myriad of trick users. Curse is definitely a good addition to Cradily's learnset, but I don't see it becoming OU.
Well yes but without it, Cradily auto-dies to Toxic Spikes/Poison in general or a Burn.
This is why Cradily can't really be OU between Toxic and limited coverage/stats.
Edit: Woo, 200
It looks good on a CB set. Watch this vid, it does a lot of damage in it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8INVPAGZsHk&feature=sub
Anti-lead. Look at how much Metagross usage went up when suicide leads went up. Dragonite doesn't have rocks, but he has the other attributes(bulk + priority).
agreeing, if it isn't uu already, it definitely will be a future uu and ss teams in uu will definitely rise. But to suggest that cradily will thrive in ou, a metagame dominated by steel, dragons, ice, and fighting-type attacks, is ridiculous. restalk cradily is basically free set up for jirachi/lucario (as well as scizor if you go sd) and meta will love getting attack boosts on your curses. hell, cradily with curse still won't be able to switch into threats like mence/gyara, as they could just dd as he comes in and attack twice as he gets maybe 1 curse off.
It covers all top ten leads, and has Inner Focus to prevent Fake Out leads from ruining it.
Something along the lines of Draco Meteor, Extremespeed, Fire Blast, and HP Grass. I already explained it earlier, and I really feel like a douche for pointing it out again(I just wanted to explain what he can do, as I think a lot of people believe others are overhyping Extremespeed on him, which isn't true in the least bit).
@ raffy: The only pokemon that can consistently stop Aerodactyl from Taunting/setting up rocks is Electrode. Does that mean everything slower than him that doesn't have rocks is worthless? No. And it isn't like Azelf, Metagross, or any others are getting rocks up against Aerodactyl, yet they are still used a ton.
And as Adversary said, it is just another toy for Dragonite to use, it doesn't even have to be used to not be considered when your Latias is at half health.
Yeah, I'd much rather use Crobat, who is super fast, has taunt and has inner focus to stop fake out.
I don't see Crobat doing anything except Taunting then U-Turning against most leads. Honestly, people say Stealth Rock is key, but I let my opponent set it up quite a lot, kill their lead, then proceed to spin/lure(LO Starmie + Rapid Spin Forretress destroys anti-spinners), and set up my own rocks.
@ Intro1827: Am I saying you have to use it? No. But personally, I prefer killing leads over Taunting or stopping set up, as my team doesn't whore pokemon like Salamence or Gyarados who are weak to rocks. Maybe other teams need to prevent it, but mine doesn't.
So tropius gets dragon dance .. but it's incompatible with it's best physical grass STAB, leaf blade.
And the poor aerial plant doesn't even get seed bomb but gets stuck with a paltry base 55 razor leaf.
<face in plam>
It's attack, after a DD with a +ve nature is a bit less than that of a positive natured base 130 (like adamant scizor/mamoswine).
But a possible advantage of DD on tropius over some other sets is the blazing speed after just one DD in the sun with chlorophyll.
What could it do with that speed?
Lonely/Naughty/whatever Tropius@life orb
Chlorophyll
Dragon Dance
Energy Ball/Grass Knot/Leaf Storm/Solar Beam
Aerial Ace
Earthquake
Many standard pokemon wall this though and it still eats priority ice attacks for 4x damage.
Plus it now has less 'turn two' power than the swords dance or specs solar power sets.
Maybe it could do something late game in the lower tiers.
I think agility kingler holds some promise since it outruns almost everything with doubled speed, has excellent base 130 attack, hypercutter to foil intimidate, a useful defense stat plus resistance/neutrality to all priority.
Crabhammer (crit) and rock slide (flinch) are nice attacks but a potential drawback is a rather shallow movepool and 4 moveslot syndrome.
It's interesting that the other crustacean gets DD.
IMO, Kingler is the better pokemon statwise and has the better defensive typing but maybe daunt can go mixed to screw with lower tier walls.
Crawdaunt DDs on the switch so that physical walls take stabbed surf from base 90 SpA while special walls eat DD'ed stabbed crunch.
DD makes taunt more viable since you'll be able to outrun more things and block status/phazing with +1 speed.
Furthermore, with hypercutter negating intimidate you'll have a good chance to keep your boosts unless superior offence forces you out.
Alteratively one could weigh the merits of slotting in aerial ace as the final attack to hit your fighting nemeses x2 or x4.
I'm pretty sure Crabhammer will also hit hard when DD-ed/LO-ed but then toxicroak and poliwrath become as much of a full stop as can be conceived.
Platinum had gifts for the gifted but HGSS has some cool additions for pokemon whose good attributes were outweighed by serious drawbacks.
It might not turn the game on its head but it might allow some previously unusable creatures to carve out a niche for themselves.
I look forward to playing with the new options once the game is widely available.
And the poor aerial plant doesn't even get seed bomb but gets stuck with a paltry base 55 razor leaf.
<face in plam>
It's attack, after a DD with a +ve nature is a bit less than that of a positive natured base 130 (like adamant scizor/mamoswine).
But a possible advantage of DD on tropius over some other sets is the blazing speed after just one DD in the sun with chlorophyll.
What could it do with that speed?
Lonely/Naughty/whatever Tropius@life orb
Chlorophyll
Dragon Dance
Energy Ball/Grass Knot/Leaf Storm/Solar Beam
Aerial Ace
Earthquake
Many standard pokemon wall this though and it still eats priority ice attacks for 4x damage.
Plus it now has less 'turn two' power than the swords dance or specs solar power sets.
Maybe it could do something late game in the lower tiers.
I think agility kingler holds some promise since it outruns almost everything with doubled speed, has excellent base 130 attack, hypercutter to foil intimidate, a useful defense stat plus resistance/neutrality to all priority.
Crabhammer (crit) and rock slide (flinch) are nice attacks but a potential drawback is a rather shallow movepool and 4 moveslot syndrome.
It's interesting that the other crustacean gets DD.
IMO, Kingler is the better pokemon statwise and has the better defensive typing but maybe daunt can go mixed to screw with lower tier walls.
Crawdaunt DDs on the switch so that physical walls take stabbed surf from base 90 SpA while special walls eat DD'ed stabbed crunch.
DD makes taunt more viable since you'll be able to outrun more things and block status/phazing with +1 speed.
Furthermore, with hypercutter negating intimidate you'll have a good chance to keep your boosts unless superior offence forces you out.
Alteratively one could weigh the merits of slotting in aerial ace as the final attack to hit your fighting nemeses x2 or x4.
I'm pretty sure Crabhammer will also hit hard when DD-ed/LO-ed but then toxicroak and poliwrath become as much of a full stop as can be conceived.
Platinum had gifts for the gifted but HGSS has some cool additions for pokemon whose good attributes were outweighed by serious drawbacks.
It might not turn the game on its head but it might allow some previously unusable creatures to carve out a niche for themselves.
I look forward to playing with the new options once the game is widely available.
Yeah, I think it depends on the team.
Some teams are not littered with frail pokemon that'll fold on the first attempted sweep with stealth rock up.
The opponent might get up stealth rock but didn't do it for free since I fainted a pokemon.
Five more to go with probably a rather healthy dragonite.
So the question is whether the opponent will prove stealth rocks/rain dance/sunny day/whatever was worth the one pokemon or I will make the one pokemon advantage decisive.
I guess this is what you'd call a gambit in chess where material is offered in the opening for some positional/strategic advantage.
Whether it will pay off or not depends on who executes best or has the better team.
So basically, I don't think a lead that can't prevent stealth rock is necessarily useless.
Reacting to your opponent's likely move is, after all, a very defensive way to begin.
However, this might be a valid approach if your team is particularly SR weak.
But sometimes it's preferable to go for your strategy whether that is to grab a quick lead or set up a beneficial field effect of your own.
I certainly don't see ES Dragonite rendering other leads obsolete but it can be a solid option for the right team.
It seems to me that this guy is either overrated or under valued.
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