1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Programming Pokemon+ : Luck-free server (DONE!)

Discussion in 'Technical Projects' started by Innocent Criminal, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    I just realized when having a battle that a lot of stuff get Chlorophyll + Sleep Powder

    Stuff like Tangrowth and Victreebel become pretty strong with it
  2. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,251
    This is so damn cool, good job man
  3. Chispy

    Chispy

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    199
    I'd like to see Serene Grace reverse the effects of 30% (non-flinch) moves: Works on first use fails on second.

    Also I'm going to test this the only way I test mods.

    Challenge Cup.
  4. Darthenos

    Darthenos

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    91
    This might be a completely noobish question to ask, but is this a server or a tier? I didn't pick up on it.
  5. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,694
    One suggestion I'd like to make to remove the last elements of luck (team advantage and guessing what the foe's team is) would be to include a "mirror" tier in which both players are forced by script to use the same team. There are several ways to pick the team used (such as randomly picking the team of one player), but the ideal seems to me to use something similar to nixeage's Shanai battle bot which is able to draw teams from a wiki page (this one) on command. Players would add teams to the page and the script would pick one of the teams for both players to use. Teams would be designed to discourage first turn speed ties (by making several possible switches on turn one most likely, or wifi clause).
  6. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,980
    A server.
  7. Innocent Criminal

    Innocent Criminal

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    You can find it in PO's server list, it's called "PK+ Luck-Free Server"

    @ete : I really like this idea. I think it would work better as a tournament than as a ladder (considering the time it takes to analyze a team), with each round using a specifically designed team, and would really go well with this server's concept.
  8. Chispy

    Chispy

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    199
    If you do make a tournament out of that, I'd like to see each round have one "unorthodox" Pokemon. Basically, an Underused or lower that still completes the synergy of the team.

    Round A: Special Sweeper, instead of something like Espeon / Hydreigon / etc, this role will be filled by Nasty Plot Raichu.
    Round B: Instead of Ferrothorn as your standard wall, it's Registeel.
    etc etc

    It adds a nice little touch to "Everybody has the same team"
  9. Mekkah

    Mekkah
    is a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,059
    Just want to applaud the effort, doing what lots of people wanted but never had the time, energy, or determination to make.
  10. StealthX

    StealthX

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    477
    what about Hustle ability? With no miss it's a free CB boost without being locked onto 1 move.
  11. Innocent Criminal

    Innocent Criminal

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    Hustle doesn't do anything for now.
  12. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,297
    Why? EDIT-- Oh ok it crashed the server.

    Ok, I can see why the latter two are banned (lol Thunderbolt/Flamethrower), but can't we make Dynamicpunch a Fighting-type Earthquake and leave it at that?

    I don't understand the double standard. The first three lock you for two turns, so why are they worse than the latter ones?
  13. Innocent Criminal

    Innocent Criminal

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    It crashed the server for no apparent reason, and since it has no competitive use in singles, it was simpler to disable its code ban it.

    About your other questions, I would like to keep this new metagame similar enough to standard, so that people don't have to "learn two pokémons". It's not about making Outrage as good of Fire Blast, but make it play like standard Outrage, which basically forces you to switch or sacc your dragon unless you used a specific item (lum berry/white herb). A weakened steel should still be 2HKO'ed by Outrage but save the game by activating its side effect. Seed Flare traded its nice side effect for some accuracy, and Power Whip is a temporary double standard in favor of Ferrothorn, as he keeps a lot of threats at bay and I don't want to risk messing up the metagame too much.

    All of these are obviously first drafts, and some will probably be changed after more playtesting.
  14. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,694
    Glad you like the idea. I actually ran it as a tournament already (each round had three matches between the players, they made a team each and one was included in the OP for everyone. Finals are here with links to other rounds.), and another tourney ("Pure Skill Tournament" ?) would certainly be a cool way to promote the server. I'd be up for writing rules and trying to get the tourney approved, but someone else should be around to handle posting each round/finding people to make teams/giving activity wins.

    I would like to see a ladder too though (much more room for practice, a tourney is only a few games per person), perhaps tied in with the tourney, so that the primary team for each round is set as the ladder team for the duration of that round? Should be much more simple to script than something with multiple teams. And after the tourney is finished depending on activity and feedback work out how best to handle which/how many teams are used and whether to continue?

    Oh, and for the server, add some more tiers! At least make doubles and triples tiers :p. Ubers would be nice too.
  15. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,980
    I talked to Innocent Criminal, and he permitted me to send in the Tour App. I will do so on Sunday.
  16. the interwebs

    the interwebs

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,270
    this seems pretty cool; are you doing this with scripts or a database?
  17. Innocent Criminal

    Innocent Criminal

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    @the interwebs : all of this was done through modification of the server's code (as PO is open source), along with a few edits to the database. Scripts don't allow you to modify battle mechanics.

    @ete & LS : Thanks for your offers ! Ete's idea would probably best for a first tournament, as this is an uncharted territory. Considering your history here and the fact that you already did that kind of tourney, you'd be welcome to start it ! It will probably improve its credibility and appeal towards players. Copypasting your Mirror Match Tournament with a few edits will save a lot of efforts, and I can take care of the rest with LS if he's interested. I guess there's no rules against 3 co-hosts ;)
    What do you guys think of this format for each round :
    - one competitively viable host team
    - one gimmicky host team
    - one "standard" battle with player-made, different teams (still with PK+ mechanics).

    In this case, I think it might be very interesting to try and make a team without even having a metagame to look at, and guess what works best, what your opponent is most likely to use.
    As for the gimmicky teams, it could help showcase some of the new mechanics by taking their consequences to an extreme degree. For exemple, a team made of 6 phazers without any entry hazard could make a very interesting battle with the new mechanics.

    What do you think ?
  18. Chispy

    Chispy

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    199
    I could help with digging up obscure Pokemon for sure.
    My first Gen 4 team was Crobat / Lucario / Raichu / Ninjask / Cradily / Metagross, so obscurity is kind of my niche, heh.

    Remember that Mega Kick is viable now, so that's an option over Return for anybody that gets it. I'll be sure to find a way to incorporate that in the "gimmicky"

    Team of 6 PHazers sounds pretty interesting. I'm thinking...

    Skarmory / Hippowdon / Snorlax / Suicune / Dragonite / Walrein

    Your thoughts?
  19. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,980
    If ete could give me what he sent to the tour hosts for his Mirror Match Tournament, I can easily make some modifications to it, add in a paragraph or twelve about the haxless part, add in the inevitable reyscarface joke, click enter, and profit. ;)
  20. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,564
    Sorry for the slight off-topic... I mentioned this on your thread in DST but this place seems more appropriate.

    I think the activation-on-the-second-hit should also apply to Iron Head / Rock Slide / Air Slash flinch (30% chance), which would otherwise be a shitty Iron Tail / Stone- Edge / Hurricane. Granted Rock Slide is usually seen on Sweepers, most notably on Excadrill, who usually doesn't really rely on the flinch chance but more for coverage, and giving this added effect may be dangerously exploited by such sweepers. However, I must argue that Iron Head and even Air Slash is often used for its secondary effect than for coverage / power, so I think a 30% chance-effect for Iron Head and Air Slash are justified if not for Rock Slide.
  21. Innocent Criminal

    Innocent Criminal

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    @Pocket : Flinching was already brought up a couple of times, but this is only a temporary removal : for different reasons (including potential to be broken and/or annoying and interaction with Serene Grace that is also on hold), I will deal with this later. It's not a huge part of the game, Togekiss is bad anyway in 5G and Jirachi has plenty of other options, so it won't be missed much until then.

    @Lady Salamence : I guess it would be fine, but since he kindly offered to do it, I feel like ete would really help give this more credibility, and everything that can be done to help this get approved and convince many players definitely should. I mean, this is a tournament with custom mechanics on another server (and my thread was deleted for some time, although I did forget to mention I had a mod's permission), so some players might not take this seriously, especially if it looks like we're copying ete's tourney !
    Still, this would be explicitedly co-hosted by us three, with you and I explicitly taking care of the tourney (and making teams), ete being the rulemaker. I mean, he did design that tourney in the first place :p
  22. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,980
    Sure. If ete wants to send in the application, let him.
  23. Gerard

    Gerard

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4,389
    What happend to CompoundEyes?

    And why is hypnosis banned?, while it has wider distribution, it's still in the would hit range, yeah, you might hate sleep, but the bulky pokes like bronzong are always bulky enough to use it twice for the sleeping chance (or in the switch in), this might be haxy, but with sleeping moves as they are only grass types can use them (and they already have power whip going on for them)

    Why not make sleep talk to select the first move from the upper-left (something like roar's effect)?

    Still, nice job, i love to see machamp gone for good, i've alwas hated that thing
  24. Innocent Criminal

    Innocent Criminal

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    I do not "hate" sleep, but let's face it, Hypnosis isn't viable in the standard metagame. The only common user is Ninetales because it doesn't have anything better to do (and some Politoeds for the same reason). I don't want any pokemon to gain such a game-breaking option. Especially not Gengar. Or Whimsicott. Or Blissey. Or even Yanmega.
    Sleep Talk always selecting the first move would be ridiculously broken with phazing. Selecting the first, then second move would still be ridiculously broken with Roar + Dragon Tail (or Protect). Sure, there might be some specific counters, but something that doesn't exist in the standard metagame should be a centralizing threat here.
  25. Gerard

    Gerard

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4,389
    What happens with Hone Claws? i mean, is in a +1 attack now?

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)