It got like, a 0.5% usage in PU last month, way below the typical cutoff for tiers, so that's a no from me chief
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Format Discussion Pokemon Sun/Moon Random Battle sets
- Thread starter duck
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Oh, I just ran with level 78 and 79 indeed. The drop in damage from lvl 78 to lvl 77 is quite huge compared to the drop from lvl 79 to lvl 78. o_o Just assumed it would be the same drop. My bad.
The damage difference is not that huge however, and I think the added bulk and speed would make it worth a tryout. Scarf would be an idea (I've seen banded Scyther a couple times), too. Without scarf, its 152 speed does allow it to outspeed some mons though I can't tell which one would be worth it from the top of my head, but with scarf, Pokémon that it would outspeed but Scarf Zone wouldn't include Mega Diancie (it carries earth power sometimes), Zygarde 10% with Power Construct, Terrakion, Jynx, Scyther, regular Zard and Mega Mence from the top of my head. These are all good to ridiculously good Pokémon in the randbat meta.
That notwithstanding, ubers standard mag set would be cool to have in randbats as it gives you a chance to really punish mindless cm spam and more than a fighting chance vs geoxern. Heart swap is an almost untouched game mechanic and this seems like a fair way to showcase it.
Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Heart Swap
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch / Flash Cannon
- Pain Split / Heal Bell
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The idea is to mock the multiple ways Rotom-Fan is (was) immune to the same thing: a Flying-type, with Levitate, holding an Air Balloon. Nowadays, Thousand Arrows exists, which bypasses the Flying-type and Levitate, so now Rotom-Fan has real movesets.
Its replacement is Stunfisk, an Electric type with the ability Limber holding a Cheri Berry, which has three ways of being not affected by paralysis. (Four for Thunder Wave specifically due to its Ground typing; Stunfisk is a Unovan mon while the Electric immunity to paralysis was not introduced until Gen VI, so Stunfisk could still be Glared/Stun Spored in Gen V.)
That's bold, but I actually like this. With how much of an importance set up moves take in randbats, and with Mag's bulk, that could be great.
It's not really possible to make strictly structured sets like that for a number of reasons.
- All mons in Random Battles have 84 evs in all stats with a neutral nature. Other EV spreads, aside from 0 speed for TR/gyro and 0 Atk for special attackers, cannot exist.
- Moves are generated via an algorithm that randomly picks four moves from the movepool (with some restrictions e.g. a STAB requirement), and we cannot put Heart Swap, Pain Split, Volt Switch, or Heal Bell on Magearna's pool without creating the opportunity for it to roll a set of 4 moves other than what's listed above, such as Heart Swap / Shift Gear / Iron Head / Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt / Volt Switch / Heal Bell / Flash Cannon. And I'm sure y'all wouldn't want those.
In short, thanks for the suggestion, but it's not really possible to implement in Random Battles.
You can research more on the randbats set generation algorithm by checking the GitHub.
https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/blob/master/data/random-teams.js
(note: I'm not a randbats developer, I just know about the system)
Regarding the EVs, I think he was just copy-pasting the uber set on the website. :p
Now, AFAIK, conditions can be implemented to force/prevent certain sets, no? A condition for heart swap could be to have no stat boosting move, and vice versa. So if it got shift gear, it will reject any heart swap roll, and if it got heart swap, it will reject any shift gear roll. Or something like that.
Also, on the topic of possible other sets,
- I'd love to see Buzzwhole get drain punch and bulk up (and/or maybe roost), and i think it was suggested back this summer. With its high defense, it can act as a great physical tank, and drain punch and/or roost further increase that.
- Is there a reason for Qwilfish not getting poison jab? I know its role has been defined as a utility mon rather than a wall breaker/sweeper with SD and swift swim, so I'm not asking for those, but I think poison jab would be great to have sometimes, especially against Pokémon such as Bulu, Fini, Whimsicott, Ludicolo, Kingdra, etc.
- Having just had a fight with a calm mind Chimecho against a team with 2 dark types, I couldn't help but think it would have been nice to have dazzling gleam. As of now, Chimecho is dead weight against pretty much every dark types (I mean, it has access to shadow ball, but it's not like it hits hard even at +6)
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The condition isn't perfect because the algorithm doesn't "reject a roll", instead throwing out an "inappropriate" move and rolling another one in its place, but it can't do that if there are no more moves available to roll (causing a good deal of the reports here). That doesn't mean that Heart Swap isn't worth adding to its available moves, though, so it will be considered, at least.
Buzzwole already has Drain Punch, but Bulk Up and Roost is a nice idea for additions.
I think the worry here is that if it has the possibility of having two attacking moves, it could screw up its ability to perform its utility role. STAB moves are rarely rejected, and utility Quilfish doesn't exactly want to have one fewer utility slot.
A nice idea. It's really a matter of whether we want to let it get walled by Steels or Darks, but it seems like there are more Steels than Darks. At least Steels don't also have super-effective STAB on them, which I guess is why Fairy is probably the better coverage option for it? I'll think about it
Wanted to suggest adding Encore to Jumpluff. Set-up sweepers are incredibly powerful in rands and another fast Encore user might help alleviate that a little.
jumpluff already has encore
A Random Duck
Banned deucer.
Suggesting Bullet Punch be added to Pangoro. Pangoro's only way of dealing with Fairy types is with Gunk Shot, which doesn't really help since it usually gets outsped by most of them anyway. Bullet Punch can at the very least chip them as well as help finish off faster opponents at low health. I can't tell you how many games I've lost because I had no Bullet Punch to finish them off
There are a couple of bulky fairies that would appreciate certain support moves and can't really do their job without them. I think aromatisse would really appreciate toxic in its move pool if possible in order to avoid being set up on by other mons. It would allow it to beat stuff like roost aerodactyl-mega or stuff like cm/recover lati@s.
Also, is there a reason why shiinotic doesn't run any grass stab moves in this? It's frustrating bringing it in on water/ground mons which it should wall and not being able to damage them enough with moonblast. Giga drain would be a fine move for a support grass mon like shiinotic imo.
Also, is there a reason why shiinotic doesn't run any grass stab moves in this? It's frustrating bringing it in on water/ground mons which it should wall and not being able to damage them enough with moonblast. Giga drain would be a fine move for a support grass mon like shiinotic imo.
got a gastro without recover which imo should be a fixed move on it
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7randombattle-830113752
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7randombattle-830113752
Preliminarily tagging ascriptmaster because TI told me to ask someone else about randbats stuff last time and probably a good idea to tag The Immortal also for this in case he rejects the proposal
For a while now, PorygonZ and Malamar issues have been extremely common reports on this thread due to issues with too many rejections between NP/Trick/Conversion or RestTalk/Dark STAB requirement/Happy Hour resulting in Trick Conversion PZ, NP move 1 ZCPZ, RestTalk ZHH Malamar, etc.
These issues persist because the amount of rejections leave the set generator no choice but to add whatever remaining moves exist that haven't been rejected on the set. There is no way to fix this via conventional methods as far as I know.
However, looking back on this thread on page 19, I noticed some talk on rejection conditions, in which a set that fits certain (negative) specifications will be trashed and replaced with a different Pokemon. Ascriptmaster, when describing this, stated that this should not be used unless there is no other solution to the problem and the set is beyond unserviceable in play.
Therefore, my proposal is to add rejection conditions for Conversion+Trick, Nasty Plot+Conversion, and Rest or Sleep Talk+Happy Hour if there is no other way I'm not seeing to prevent these issues altogether. I'm aware this is a big suggestion, but I hope it's not entirely off-base. Thanks for reading.
E: also replace flame wheel with stomping tantrum on raticate; it's stronger and hits rock-types and heatran at the cost of not hitting ferro/sciz/etc
For a while now, PorygonZ and Malamar issues have been extremely common reports on this thread due to issues with too many rejections between NP/Trick/Conversion or RestTalk/Dark STAB requirement/Happy Hour resulting in Trick Conversion PZ, NP move 1 ZCPZ, RestTalk ZHH Malamar, etc.
These issues persist because the amount of rejections leave the set generator no choice but to add whatever remaining moves exist that haven't been rejected on the set. There is no way to fix this via conventional methods as far as I know.
However, looking back on this thread on page 19, I noticed some talk on rejection conditions, in which a set that fits certain (negative) specifications will be trashed and replaced with a different Pokemon. Ascriptmaster, when describing this, stated that this should not be used unless there is no other solution to the problem and the set is beyond unserviceable in play.
Personally, I feel that these problematic sets I've listed earlier definitely constitute "illegal" sets, they are actually relatively common (I've gotten NP move 1 ZCPZ five times in the past month), and they seem to be unsolvable by any other means from an outsider's perspective.
Therefore, my proposal is to add rejection conditions for Conversion+Trick, Nasty Plot+Conversion, and Rest or Sleep Talk+Happy Hour if there is no other way I'm not seeing to prevent these issues altogether. I'm aware this is a big suggestion, but I hope it's not entirely off-base. Thanks for reading.
E: also replace flame wheel with stomping tantrum on raticate; it's stronger and hits rock-types and heatran at the cost of not hitting ferro/sciz/etc
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In addition to the above, Sticky Web on Ribombee, please?
Very good ideas.
Also, for Raticate, I'm starting to wonder if I'd like it to have throat chop or crunch over sucker punch.
- Pros of sucker punch :
Grabbing a kill against a faster but weak defensively opponent after Swords Dance (think M-Beedrill, Naganadel, Swellow, Ninjask, Dugtrio)
Grabbing a kill against a faster opponent that is weak to dark types (think Deoxys, Alakazam, Gengar, U-Necrozma, Mismagius, Froslass, Gourgeist-Small)
- Pros of throat chop/crunch
Added benefit of preventing opponent from using bug buzz, hyper voice (especially M-Altaria and M-Gardevoir), clanging scale, chatter and even heal bell, the later which can be useful at times.
Of the Pokémon named above, several can easily play around sucker punch, rendering Raticate useless and forcing a switch if it doesn't have flame wheel or stomping tantrum. Notably, Deoxys can have e-speed and Swellows has quick attack, and Dugtrio, Mismagius, Gengar, Alakazam and Gourgeist can play around with substitute and/or moves like disable, encore, leech seed, spikes, d-bond, synthesis, etc.
Denting/revenge killing an opponent under tailwind, or that has used a speed boosting move or that has a choice scarf.
Against slower ghost types (Giratina, Chandelure, Mimikyu, Trevenant, Dhelmise, A-Marowak, Shedinja, Golurk, Aegislash/Doublade, Dusknoir, Banette, etc.), it ensures that you get a good deal of damage and do not get played around with non damaging moves. Chandelure, A-Marowak et Aegislash/Doublade would get taken care of by replacing flame wheel with stomping tantrum (unless Aegislash is carrying air balloon), at the expense of Dhelmise, Shedinja and Trevenant, which could now freely play around basically.
Raticate already has decent speed that allows it to outspeed a majority of treats.
That was just food for thought while someone mentioned Raticate (no idea why I spent this time writing that for something as beta as Raticate), and I'm not pushing for anything, as I'm totally fine with sucker punch (both have their advantages). :P
I'm personnally not a fan of risking not having recovery or losing a coverage move for sticky web, when Ribombee is generally a revenge killer and even a sweeper with butterfly dance. Sticky web is useful obviously, and often a big winning factor, but I just don't think it has its place on a Pokémon that has that role alongside a speed boosting move (Leavanny is fast but has great use for sticky web alongside swords dance to sweep since it doesn't have a speed boosting move). I'm saying this, but at the same time, Masquerain has access to it, so I don't know. It isn't as big of a glass cannon though, and can force switches due to intimidate. I'd prefer keeping Ribombee that way, even though the thought of a fast sticky web set-upper is interesting (to avoid taunts and stuff).
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Ran into a (opposing, so don't have a screenshot) Gyarados set of DD/Waterfall/EQ/Bounce with Life Orb. Fairly certain that should've been Flynium.
Maybe another mon already had a Z-Crystal which is why it turned out this way. Also, we don't yet have a check that would try to avoid Bounce if a Z-Crystal is present, is that needed?
(also you can link replays if you have them if you can't get screenshots)
A set that's been posted many times already. I'm sure the people know about it already.
If it hasn't been turned down (aka everyone complaining about Happy Hour Malamar) then it always helps to be reminded
I think the easiest way to fix Regirock is to take out either Rock Slide or Stone Edge, but the question is, which one does it want more? Discuss
I think the easiest way to fix Regirock is to take out either Rock Slide or Stone Edge, but the question is, which one does it want more? Discuss
Probably keep Rock Slide and take out Stone Edge I’d say. Curse hates only having ~6 STAB PP on average (factoring accuracy) to reliably sweep/break, and if it will succeed can often boost enough so that the power drop to Slide is irrelevant. Misses can also suck against powerful special hitters that can 2HKO. The PP and accuracy problems of Edge can also make its passive sets way too passive very quickly. Rock slide can also work with Twave and level advantage for hax, or on just very slow mons with Toxic for flinch toxic stall.
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