agreed to a point, however when we go out of our way to kill animals (see killing wolves with miniguns from choppers) that is where i draw the line
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Purple Poppy
- Thread starter joshua
- Start date
What the hell. They changed the colour and say they're respecting animals? That's the most bullshit thing I've heard. Do the animals bleed purple? I don't think so.
Remembrance Day should be used to honour all the living things that died in the war. Animals aren't any more important than human beings.
Remembrance Day should be used to honour all the living things that died in the war. Animals aren't any more important than human beings.
Agreed Firestorm. 100%. I didn't think of it that way, but I guess it's a species biased thing. This way the animals won't get overshadowed by the human sacrifice (which was greater but not more siginificant).
Ambitions- Seriously? I'm going to hope that long post about humans as a plague wasnt serious. PM me if you were, lets talk about it a bit so we don't derail this topic! :D
Ambitions- Seriously? I'm going to hope that long post about humans as a plague wasnt serious. PM me if you were, lets talk about it a bit so we don't derail this topic! :D
I can kinda understand what you are saying, I get the impression that you are saying it is distracting from the people who fought in the war. I dont think the color should be changed to include them, include them under the same color. Animals are as much a part as the men and woman fighting. Dolphins are used by the navy and are higly intelligent. Dogs are used in the police servace and should be and are recognised. Animals are what you put into them and can be and do greath things with that. I do not see this as disrespectful because the should get recognition as well as the person who trained the animal that is being recognised.
Well even though this is pretty much false, I understand what you're trying to say. I think that if we are really going to spend the time and effort recognizing animals that will never and have never honored us back for no reason, then I think we should at least be consistent and recognize the contributions of our guns and bombs, since they so admirably fought and sacrificed without the capacity to think about what they are doing as well. A trained animal is no different than a gun except in terms of style and effectiveness in killing.
One is alive, one isn't. One feels pain and fear, one doesn't. If you really hold the view that animals are no different than tools or machines, then I hope you never own a pet. You will not feed it, beat it when it doesn't do what you want, and simply throw it away when it no longer serves a purpose.
I never said that animals are mere tools. I said they can be thought of as equal to human beings, but they should not be put on a pedestal above human beings. It makes no logical sense to me. Animals are living creatures. We are animals ourselves. I think we should think about the number of animals that died in the wars alongside humans in a human-created conflict. However, I think using a purple poppy which has really no symbolic value is pushing it.
Let me clarify, since what I said really looks meaner than I intended, lol
I have owned pets in the past, yes I took care of them and fed them and liked having them. I understand and respect the fact that animals are living beings just trying to chillax and stay alive just like we are. When I said that the animals used in war are no different from guns, I am just talking about the animals that were used in the war. They were easily exploitable tools, and whenever a trained dog was killed by an enemy soldier it was likely in self-defense. I would not hesitate to kill someone that was trying to kill me, just like I would not hesitate to kill an animal that was trying to kill me.
I get annoyed when people say that animals are just as valuable as humans because if that were true, you/your family wouldn't own property, be living in a house, or be using the tons and tons of space and resources it takes for you to get on the internet. I am not advocating training animals for war, I am not advocating the abuse of animals. I just think that it's unrealistic to see animals as equals to humans when I am damn sure that a trained dog or a bear would kill me without even considering it twice.
Animals can be just as helpful to humans as humans can be to animals. Even if for some reason you think that testing on animals is immoral, keep in mind that if it wasn't for testing on dogs, people with diabetes would still be struggling to cope with insulin deficiencies...among countless other human problems that we have used animals to help solve. There is a lot we can learn from animals, but giving them priveleges and rights? Give me a break.
I don't see why not. They have the some of same characteristics that we bestow rights over in humans. They interact with us and communicate with us, in a convoluted way. You're not making a lot of sense, tbh, you're just asserting.
They interact and communicate with us, but that doesn't mean that they would do any good with "equal treatment". Do you want to go to jail for accidentally running over a dog lol? I'm all for giving animals the courtesy of "I'm not going to put you in a microwave" etc and avoiding other kinds of violent abuse, I was just commenting on the fact that it would be absurd to give animals the same or even similar rights that we acknowledge that humans have in our society.
No-one said equal treatment. Animals and humans only have equal properties in some respects. Now you're just beating up a strawman. But I suspect you were all along. You could at least bother identifying how animals and humans are similar and how they are not, before making a judgement call on what animals 'deserve'.
Moreover, there is a wide-ranging spectrum of animal intelligence (including humanity). Almost certainly great apes deserve many more legal rights than they are afforded, but brainless animals like starfish surely earn no rights at all. Then there is everything in between or sticking out the side.
Animals actively disent from being slaughtered, when given ample opportunity. For that reason alone, we ought not to kill them where it is possible not to.
Moreover, there is a wide-ranging spectrum of animal intelligence (including humanity). Almost certainly great apes deserve many more legal rights than they are afforded, but brainless animals like starfish surely earn no rights at all. Then there is everything in between or sticking out the side.
Animals actively disent from being slaughtered, when given ample opportunity. For that reason alone, we ought not to kill them where it is possible not to.
I'm not setting up a straw man, do you even know what that means? I don't have to identify how animals and humans are similar, since that has absolutely nothing to do with my argument. I can make a judgement on whatever I want, lol, thats why its called a judgement. I didn't say what animals deserve, I simply outlined what I think they do not deserve. Did you even read my post or did you just accidentally misrepresent every single thing i said?
You said literally the exact same thing as I did. Re-read my post and tell me anywhere that I disagree with your assessment of "we ought not to kill them where it is possible not to."
You said literally the exact same thing as I did. Re-read my post and tell me anywhere that I disagree with your assessment of "we ought not to kill them where it is possible not to."
I by no means agree with PETA or anyone else like that but animals do deserve some equal treatment. An animal should never be abused, if you do, you go to jail. An animal should be feed a proper diet, remove shitty foods from the market. An animal should be sold only to a proper home, do more screenings in pet stores of the customers to insure they they are not an idiot. BAN GOLDFISH FROM BOWLS!!!!!!
Okay, up until this I would've said you had a rational argument, but now you're just trolling.
Sorry jrrrrrr, you were a bit vague. "I'm not going to put you in a microwave" sounds pretty distant from what I imagine are the basic approaches to animal welfare. I guess I misunderstood.