[QC Checks 0/3] Delphox

[lurkingSombres]

[Pros]

<ul>
<li>Nice speed and special attack;</li>
<li>Interesting secondary ability in Magician;</li>
<li>Moderate special defense, can take a couple physical hits with proper investment as well;</li>
<li>Good coverage attacks such as Shadow Ball and Grass Knot;</li>
<li>Access to disruption moves such as Will-o-Wisp and Mystical Fire.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>Vulnerable to faster physical attackers;</li>
<li>Stealth Rock weakness;</li>
<li>Sucker Punch devastates Delphox;</li>
<li>Specially defensive pokemon can set up easily on her (if she doesn't have Psyshock).</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Choice</p>

<p>- Flamethrower/Fire Blast<br />
- Psychic/Psyshock<br />
- Hidden Power Ice<br />
- Grass Knot/Shadow Ball/Switcheroo
Ability: Blaze<br />
Item: Choice Scarf/Choice Specs <br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA <br />
Nature: Timid (+Spe, - Atk)/Modest (+SpA, - Atk) <br /></p>

• The set elevates one of Delphox's main stats for immediate pressure on the opponent.
  
• Flamethrower and Psychic are the main STABs and provide a nice offensive combination, with Fire Blast as another option for more power.
  
• Psyshock can be used against specially defensive pokemon like Blissey.
  
• Hidden Power Ice deals with Dragon- and Ground-types.
  
• The last slot is split between Grass Knot and Shadow Ball; the former if you want her to put the hurt on Tyranitar and other heavy Rock-, Ground-, and water-types, and the latter against opposing Psychic- and Ghost-types.
  
• Switcheroo can cripple pokemon that attempt to wall Delphox, such as Sylveon.
• Choice Scarf lets Delphox outspeed Starmie, Gengar, Greninja, and other faster threats.

<p>Bulky Calm Mind</p>


<p>- Calm Mind<br />
- Psychic/Psyshock<br />
- Flamethrower/Overheat<br />
- Wish/Substitute
Ability: Blaze<br />
Item: Leftovers <br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA <br />
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)<br /></p>

• Physical defense isn't Delphox's strongest suit. Therefore, if she tries to set up using Calm Mind, investing in it is important.
  
• Maximum Defense allows her to take some physical hits while using Calm Mind and recovering with Leftovers, and then attempt to sweep.
  
• Wish is a healing option, and Substitute blocks possible status moves, it also protects against nasty Sucker Punches from anything without Parental Bond.
• Alternatively, she can use a coverage move in the last slot.

<p>Disruption</p>

<p>- Switcheroo<br />
- Psychic/Psyshock<br />
- Mystical Fire<br />
- Will-o-wisp
Ability: Blaze <br />
Item: Choice Scarf/Choice Specs
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Spe/ 4 SpA<br />
Nature: Timid (+Spe, - Atk) <br /></p>

• Delphox can cripple walls and supports by giving a scarf with Switcheroo in exchange for an useful item.
  
• Will-o-Wisp makes the fight difficult for physical attackers that would give Delphox a hard time, such as pokemon with access to Sucker Punch..
• Mystical Fire is a 65 base power Fire-type move that reduces the opponent's special attack by one level each time it connects, so it is useful against the likes of most special attackers.
  
• This moveset can severely delay your opponent's setup or offensive and weaken their pokemon enough for a sweeper to step in and finish them.

[Checks and Counters]

- Greninja outspeeds non-scarf Delphox. Grass Knot can help, but Protean can cause trouble.
- Aegislash has a threatening priority move in Shadow sneak. With a swords dance boost, it can and will knock out Delphox easily.
- Donphan has Sturdy and can reply in kind to any attacks with Earthquake.
- Gyarados has strong super effective physical attacks and can switch into most of her moves.
- Diggersby's scarfed Earthquake can effortlessly revenge kill her.
- Rotom-W resists one STAB, has good bulk and takes little damage from Grass Knot.
- Azumarill has a strong Aqua Jet and doesn't take a lot of damage from Grass Knot.
- Tyranitar means problems if Delphox doesn't have Grass Knot or Will-o-Wisp.
- Chandelure has Flash Fire and can threaten with Shadow Ball.
- Starmie resists both of her STABs, but folds to Shadow Ball and Grass Knot.
- Most Sucker Punch users, specially Mega Kangaskhan.

 

[Talvi]

Thinking about Delphox I've considered a set with Magician, WoW and a Fire or Psychic Gem. Now considering those gems haven't been found yet, I'm not sure if Magician is a worthy ability. Still it lets you do a Thief while hitting hard.

 

[lurkingSombres]

Thinking about Delphox I've considered a set with Magician, WoW and a Fire or Psychic Gem. Now considering those gems haven't been found yet, I'm not sure if Magician is a worthy ability. Still it lets you do a Thief while hitting hard.

It was an idea, but apparently you can't use items that can only be obtained from pokebank yet (such as the gems).

 

[mdbtg]

I'm thinking an attacking disrupter set might be more useful. Something like this:
Delphox @ Choice Scarf
EV's: 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Sp.A?
Nature: Timid?
Blaze (Magician is anti-synergetic)
- Switcheroo
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sacred Fire/Fire Blast
- Psyshock
Switcheroo cripples any wall and stops Protean Greninja's silly little tricks, Psyshock can nail Blissey, Will-O-Wisp ruins physical attackers and their sucker punches, and Sacred Fire does the same for special attackers, although Fire Blast can be used if you want a more powerful attack so Delphox can function better as a cleaner. This combines all of Delphox's best traits, and can even ruin its hardest counter, Heatran, with a scarf it doesn't want (unless its already scarfed of course).
Even so, Chandelure and Heatran are this sets best counters, as most other 'checks' can be crippled on the switch in by one of these four moves. (Good prediction required)

 

[Nijian]

Delphox, is really fast in my opinion and so i don't see a need with Choice.

It's Probs better if you remove aegis from counters, in most cases Aegislash will try to stab Shadow Sneak, but with that base dmg i doubt you will die, and most likely you'll one shot with Flamethrower/Fire Blast.

 

[lurkingSombres]

I'm thinking an attacking disrupter set might be more useful. Something like this:
Delphox @ Choice Scarf
EV's: 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Sp.A?
Nature: Timid?
Blaze (Magician is anti-synergetic)
- Switcheroo
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sacred Fire/Fire Blast
- Psyshock
Switcheroo cripples any wall and stops Protean Greninja's silly little tricks, Psyshock can nail Blissey, Will-O-Wisp ruins physical attackers and their sucker punches, and Sacred Fire does the same for special attackers, although Fire Blast can be used if you want a more powerful attack so Delphox can function better as a cleaner. This combines all of Delphox's best traits, and can even ruin its hardest counter, Heatran, with a scarf it doesn't want (unless its already scarfed of course).
Even so, Chandelure and Heatran are this sets best counters, as most other 'checks' can be crippled on the switch in by one of these four moves. (Good prediction required)

It looks nice, I'll test it and see how it fares. It seems you were talking of Mystical Fire instead of Sacred Fire, though.

Delphox, is really fast in my opinion and so i don't see a need with Choice.

It's Probs better if you remove aegis from counters, in most cases Aegislash will try to stab Shadow Sneak, but with that base dmg i doubt you will die, and most likely you'll one shot with Flamethrower/Fire Blast.

With a defensive set, it did endure a couple hits, but on choice, it got OHKO'ed often. I figured choice scarf would be interesting against greninja, starmie, gengar, and other normally faster pokemon that can hit hard for super effective damage, even on the special side.

 

[Nijian]

Hmm, I did not consider greninja but then again what are you meant to do against something like him, you always outspeed gengar so that should be fine but i know that greninja probs will beat you in speed.

 

[Halcyon.]

Hmm, I did not consider greninja but then again what are you meant to do against something like him, you always outspeed gengar so that should be fine but i know that greninja probs will beat you in speed.

Delphox is assumed to have base 104 Speed, so it actually doesn't outspeed Gengar.

 

[Nijian]

Delphox is assumed to have base 104 Speed, so it actually doesn't outspeed Gengar.

My bad there, sorry about that mistake but then again i find gengar's running +Sp.Atk instead of +Spe, I find delphox more used if i threaten aegislash, usually forces a swap

 

[mdbtg]

lurkingSombres - yes I did mean Mystical fire. My apologies. ATM I'm buried under college work so you testing my set is very much appreciated. Thank you :)

 

[Jexulus]

Mystical Fire is 65 BP, not 80 BP. I don't know how this went without being said for so long.

 

[lurkingSombres]

Mystical Fire is 65 BP, not 80 BP. I don't know how this went without being said for so long.

Right, I thought I saw 80 on PS. Edited.

 

[Zystral]

You still have a line of HTML explaining what the line break tag does, don't forget to remove that.

I think Overheat deserves mention on the choice set, it's one of your best choices for raw power early on. Mega Houndoom and Chandelure are the only Flash Fires worth being worried about because Heatran doesn't exist yet.

Psychic could also be replaced with Substitute on the CM set; gives you a turn extra or two of setting up or lefties recovery, as well as helping scout some slower Choice item users.

 

[lurkingSombres]

You still have a line of HTML explaining what the line break tag does, don't forget to remove that.

I think Overheat deserves mention on the choice set, it's one of your best choices for raw power early on. Mega Houndoom and Chandelure are the only Flash Fires worth being worried about because Heatran doesn't exist yet.

Psychic could also be replaced with Substitute on the CM set; gives you a turn extra or two of setting up or lefties recovery, as well as helping scout some slower Choice item users.

Interesting. I added overheat to it, and maybe will add to the CM set later.

I will test Substitute and try to wrap this up for the checks.

 

[lurkingSombres]

Well, I tested it long enough, I guess. Time to put it to the QC checks.

 

[SOMALIA]

lurkingSombres This needs a major overhaul.

1) Your format needs working on, this time actually listen to what others have to tell you and fix up your spacing. Afterwards, change your movesets to the new format which can be found here.

2) Pros and cons;

[Pros]

<ul>
<li>Possesses great Speed and Special Attack.</li>
<li>Interesting secondary ability in Magician.</li>
<li>Moderate special defense, can take a couple physical hits with proper investment as well;</li>
<li>Has a great movepool to work with.</li>
<li>Access to disruption moves such as Will-o-Wisp and Mystical Fire.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>Poor physical bulk and typing leave it weak to many common offensive typings (Ghost, Ground, Rock and Water) unable to take most physical hits.</li>
<li>Stealth Rock weakness.</li>
<li>Weak to several priority attacks such as Aqua jet, Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch.</li>
<li>Specially defensive pokemon can set up easily on her (if she doesn't have Psyshock).</li>
</ul>

3) I think that Calm Mind is what distinguishes this Pokemon from other Fire-types and should be set one. Change the spread to max Speed instead of Defense. Pokemon such as Ttar beat you regardless of the defensive investment. Delphox has good Base Speed, make use of it. It outpaces base 100's and Garchomp which is very good. Additionally, make Psyshock the first option, the majority of Pokemon that will attempt to wall you will almost always have poor Def compared to their SpDef.

- Psyshock / Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Grass Knot

4) Remove the Switcheroo set. It dosn't even deserve a mention with Magician as a potential ability.

5) For the choice set, Maximum Speed and Special Attack ONLY.

-Fire Blast / Flamethrower
-Psyshock / Psychic
-Hidden Power Ice
-Grass Knot


6) Fix some basic spelling and grammatical issues, this isn't in the GP stage but still some words such as 'specially' instead of especially just make this look really unprofessional.

7) Fix your C&C section, remove mentions of unreliable checks such as Donphan and Diggersby. Mention that Blissey and Goodra wall it badly if it lacks Psyshock.

I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU 48 HOURS TO MAKE THESE CHANGES TO THE DOT, OR THIS WILL BE REASSIGNED.​

 

[Unowninator]

Both sets only have 3 attacks, not counting slashes. And I noticed that you put Magician in the pros section, but both sets have Blaze as the ability.

 

[Shurtugal]

On the choice set, HP Ground can be mentioned as an AC to hit Heatran Houndoom and Cahndelure since they can absorb Fire-type moves easily. Once Heatran becomes OU, I expect the move to be a secondary slash to HP Ice, but for now, an AC will do.

On the choice set, shouldn't it have maximum SpA investment and have zero defense investment? Defensive investment for the choice set isn't doing much but letting it live priority...?

Mention how even a Delaphox with Grass Knot can't muscle through Assault Vest Tyranitar (you currently mention that only non-Grass Knot variants are threatened by it). Quickly mention that Lati@s can tank any of its hits since HP Ice is weak and Defog makes them common sigh in OU (Add this in when Pokebank OU becomes standard).

Gengar should be mentioned as a fairly decent check, considering it can revenge kill Delaphox (especially if Sash variant) while Keldeo checks all Delaphox sets and counters every other set that isn't scarf.

Please excuse my Pokebank OU mentions since I find it's better to get them out of my system. I crossed them all out.

Mention how Mega Charizard-X can smash this with EQ and Mega Charizard-Y can wall most of anything thrown at it while Talonflame is bulk enough to come in and set up on Dela and can revenge kill if Delephox's health is low enough (make sure to mention that the SR weakness makes putting it into Revenge Kill range fairly easy to do).

Good luck with the QC analysis! :)

EDIT: I am willing to do this analysis if I am needed.

 

[SOMALIA]

This will be reassigned, can a moderator lock this thread.