[QC Ready 2/3] Furfrou

[Deoxymoron]

FABULOUS
[Pros]

<ul>
<li>Great physical Defense with Fur Coat</li>
<li>Cotton Guard makes its defense even better</li>
<li>Very good physical pivot with U-Turn</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>No reliable forms of recovery</li>
<li>Very underwhelming attacking stats</li>
<li>Setup bait for Stall and special attackers</li>
<li>No resistances and weak to Fighting</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Furfrou @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Fur Coat<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe <br />
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)<br />
- Return<br />
- U-Turn<br />
- Thunder Wave/Toxic<br />
- Roar/Cotton Guard</p>

• Furfrou's only viable set
• Works as a very bulky physical pivot
• Max defensive EVs to make it as bulky as possible
• More speed EVs can be used to outspeed various Base 100s
• Can run a 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe mixed set
• Return is the best and most reliable STAB for Furfrou
• U-turn helps it gain momentum and escape from physical attackers
• Thunder Wave cripples physical attackers, but Toxic can also be used as a reliable source of damage
• Roar can also be used for phazing and allows for parashuffle shenanigans
• Cotton Guard makes Furfrou extremely hard to take down, works well with Toxic
• Baby-Doll Eyes can also be used because of priority and the SpD drop but is mostly outclassed by Cotton Guard
• Sucker Punch and Wild Charge can be used (the former for Gengar and Aegislash, the latter for Water- and Flying-types) but for the most part Furfrou should not be used as an attacker due to its low stats
• Good teammates include those who need safe switch-ins to set up like Talonflame and Cloyster
• Magnezone, Dugtrio and Mega Gengar can all trap Steel-types which would otherwise give Furfrou trouble
• Pairs well with special walls and pokemon who resist Fighting, Florges is notable for being both

[Checks and Counters]

• Special attackers can run right through Furfrou with no problem whatsoever
• Pokemon with Taunt make Furfrou almost useless, especially the RestTalk set
• Poison- and Steel- types are immune to Toxic and thus don't take almost any damage from Furfrou
• Steel-types in particular don't care about anything Furfrou does and can often set up hazards or boosts

 

[ginganinja]

If you are using Cotton Guard, why EV yourself so much physically, ie why not send those EVs into SDef. I am not well versed on Furfrou so I apologise if im missing something obvious, but it seems like a standard choice.

 

[Deoxymoron]

If you are using Cotton Guard, why EV yourself so much physically, ie why not send those EVs into SDef. I am not well versed on Furfrou so I apologise if im missing something obvious, but it seems like a standard choice.

Hmm. I've always thought of Furfrou as an unbelievable physical wall, one that can sponge hits before it even sets up. Here's a good calc:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus-Normal ExtremeSpeed vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 175-207 (49.43 - 58.47%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO

LIFE ORB EKILLER ARCEUS CANNOT GUARANTEE A 2HKO AT +2. That's insane. Furfrou can come in on an SD, tank the hit, Cotton Guard and then Rest back to full HP. Basically any physical attacker that isn't Fighting-type is walled by this thing. That only works with full defensive investment, however. Specially, Furfrou is nothing to write home about, so I didn't try to compensate for its mediocrity. Still, I definitely see the appeal of mixed defenses, so I'll add it in other options.

 

[ginganinja]

Quick Points

Cotton Guard should be the first slash, since its the better move.

-The appeal of switching EVs to Special Defence is because if I am facing a Furfrou, I am always bringing in a special attacker simple because I know the most threatening thing its going to do is use Cotton Guard, ergo, your special bulk helps you out there. That said, with base 60 Def, EVing it phyiscally might not be a bad idea so ill leave it up to QC to decide (who want to confer RE this mon anyway).

 

[Disaster Area]

Doesn't cotton guard boost by +3 not +2?

 

[Deoxymoron]

Doesn't cotton guard boost by +3 not +2?

Yes, the +2 in the calc was representing Fur Coat. After Cotton Guard, Furfrou would essentially be at +5.

 

[vBlue]

Yes, the +2 in the calc was representing Fur Coat. After Cotton Guard, Furfrou would essentially be at +5.

I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure Fur Coat is just a flat half damage after all other calculations which is equivalent to double your end Defense. In this case you would get +3 Defense, giving you x2.5 Defense, which is then theoretically doubled to x5 with Fur Coat. This would be like getting a +8 to Defense on a 75/60 Base Stat. I can test it later, but I'm pretty certain this is how it's calculated.

 

[Deoxymoron]

I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure Fur Coat is just a flat half damage after all other calculations which is equivalent to double your end Defense. In this case you would get +3 Defense, giving you x2.5 Defense, which is then theoretically doubled to x5 with Fur Coat. This would be like getting a +8 to Defense on a 75/60 Base Stat. I can test it later, but I'm pretty certain this is how it's calculated.

Wow, that's even better than I thought. At first I wasn't sure, but now I definitely think this thing can see use in OU.

 

[Disaster Area]

It'll probably be NU because so few people will realise how much of a physical wall it can be. And those of us who do will quietly be very happy with that gem.

 

[KingTyrant]

Furfrou @ Leftovers
Impish

EV Spread:
252 HP/252Df/4Spd

Substitute
Cotton Guard
Return
Thunder Wave

I was wonder if I could get an opinion on this set.

 

[Siggu]

Yes, the +2 in the calc was representing Fur Coat. After Cotton Guard, Furfrou would essentially be at +5.

If you wanted to represent Fur Coat, Reflect is a much better choice, as Fur Coat is essentially a Gen I Reflect (Permanent, 'wears off' after switching out)

 

[IloveslakingIGN]

Furfrou @ Leftovers
Impish

EV Spread:
252 HP/252Df/4Spd

Substitute
Cotton Guard
Return
Thunder Wave

I was wonder if I could get an opinion on this set.

You have no way to recover so cotton guard is pointless.

 

[Disaster Area]

leftovers ^^

 

[Deoxymoron]

Furfrou @ Leftovers
Impish

EV Spread:
252 HP/252Df/4Spd

Substitute
Cotton Guard
Return
Thunder Wave

I was wonder if I could get an opinion on this set.

To be honest, I don't see much of a reason to use it. The only difference in this set from my first set is the replacement of U-Turn with Substitute, and as Furfrou's main niche is a bulky pivot, U-Turn is more important.

 

[KingTyrant]

To be honest, I don't see much of a reason to use it. The only difference in this set from my first set is the replacement of U-Turn with Substitute, and as Furfrou's main niche is a bulky pivot, U-Turn is more important.

Ahh, alrighty. Thank you for your feedback.

I'm starting out competitive battling, and wanted another person opinion ^u^

 

[alexwolf]

Get rid of the second set. A sleep talker with Toxic as its only means of offense is laughable even by NU standards, and this is OU.

As for the first set, make it like this:

- Return<br />
- U-Turn<br />
- Thunder Wave / Toxic<br />
- Roar / Cotton Guard</p>

Return and U-turn are musts and don't need any explanation. Thunder Wave is the best move Furfrou has at its arsenal to stop physical threats and so it is slashed first. Roar helps against Pokemon immune to Thunder Wave or Substitute users. Toxic is an option for crippling the Pokemon you check and it pairs well with Cotton Guard, which lets you stall long enough the physical attacker so that Toxic damage take its toll until the attacker either gets KOed or forced out.

 

[Deoxymoron]

Get rid of the second set. A sleep talker with Toxic as its only means of offense is laughable even by NU standards, and this is OU.

As for the first set, make it like this:

- Return<br />
- U-Turn<br />
- Thunder Wave / Toxic<br />
- Roar / Cotton Guard</p>

Return and U-turn are musts and don't need any explanation. Thunder Wave is the best move Furfrou has at its arsenal to stop physical threats and so it is slashed first. Roar helps against Pokemon immune to Thunder Wave or Substitute users. Toxic is an option for crippling the Pokemon you check and it pairs well with Cotton Guard, which lets you stall long enough the physical attacker so that Toxic damage take its toll until the attacker either gets KOed or forced out.

Sounds good. I'm going to keep Baby-Doll Eyes though because the priority is really nice, and if Furfrou switches out, the effect stays.

 

[Plus]

You could probably just make BDE additional comments, because Cotton Guard is superior most of the time, and attempt to accomplish the same thing: to wall physical threats. Not many pokemon have something like Cotton Guard to take advantage of, while a priority growl can be done through Intimidate spamming from generally superior Pokemon. The fact that you have to take a turn to do a priority growl instead of simply using an Intimidate user to do the same thing kind of turns me off.

Like others, I'm not too well versed in Furfrou, but I don't see much reason to slash BDE in the main set for now.

 

[alexwolf]

Also, mention the moves in the order that i posted.

 

[Deoxymoron]

Also, mention the moves in the order that i posted.

Done.

 

[IloveslakingIGN]

consider noting that with a neutral nature you hit 241 Speed with the given EV set. I'll double check this.

Yes, this is correct and 240 is base 60 pokemon with max speed and a +speed nature

 

[Unowninator]

This thing is unbelievably bulky & I really underestimated it. Never doing that again. I fought one in battle video 2BYG-WWWW-WWW2-K7WJ
It may only be able to heal with Rest & Wish support, but this thing is like a physical Blissey, IMO.

 

[Plus]

1/3

 

[alexwolf]

<li>Cotton Guard and Baby-Doll eyes make its defense even better</li>

Remove the Baby-Doll Eyes mention as it's not in the main set anymore.

Sucker Punch and Wild Charge can be used, but keep in mind that U-turn cannot 2HKO 252/0 Celebi, so Furfrou should not be used as an attacker

If you want to keep those two moves mentioned in the set comments, explain their use. What targets would they be useful against (specific common Pokemon). If you can't find any good example just remove those two moves.

Add some partners to help with Steel-types, which Furfrou is helpless against and gets set up on. Mention both Pokemon that can take them out and Pokemon that can get rid of their hazards.

Moves with high crit chance like Stone Edge, Night Slash or Storm Throw (lol) don't care about Defense modifiers

Remove this as all those moves have only a 12.5% chance to crit so they are not reliable at all, and all of them except from Stone Edge are very rare.

When you talk about Steel-types countering Furfrout, mention how they can either boost or set up hazards on its face.

Do those and i will stamp it.

 

[Deoxymoron]

1/3

Awesome, thanks!

Remove the Baby-Doll Eyes mention as it's not in the main set anymore.

If you want to keep those two moves mentioned in the set comments, explain their use. What targets would they be useful against (specific common Pokemon). If you can't find any good example just remove those two moves.

Add some partners to help with Steel-types, which Furfrou is helpless against and gets set up on. Mention both Pokemon that can take them out and Pokemon that can get rid of their hazards.

Remove this as all those moves have only a 12.5% chance to crit so they are not reliable at all, and all of them except from Stone Edge are very rare.

When you talk about Steel-types countering Furfrout, mention how they can either boost or set up hazards on its face.

Do those and i will stamp it.

done.