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Raikou (BW2 Revamp) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Agent Gibbs, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    [​IMG]
    I'm a saber-toothed tiger, so rawr and stuff.


    [Overview]

    <p>Raikou is quite the stereotypical Electric-type Pokemon: good Special Attack and Speed with a fairly bland movepool. Its excellent combination of base 115 Speed and Special Attack stats looks great on the surface, but unfortunately as an offensive Electric-type Pokemon it receives major competition from Thundurus-T and Jolteon in the OU environment, each having significant advantages that warrant more usage on OU teams. In addition, while Raikou does have some neat event moves in Aura Sphere and Weather Ball, it is forced to run a Rash nature when using either of them. This hurts its ability to fully take advantage of its excellent base 115 Speed (although it can still outspeed base 100 Speed Pokemon by a single point). Because of this, Raikou generally does not find much usage on OU teams.</p>

    <p>However, Raikou does have some notable assets that give it an edge over its competition. Unlike its competitors, Raikou has good 90 / 100 special bulk to compliment its offenses and give it the ability to take a few hits when needed. The extra speed is also useful for checking prominent threats like Garchomp and Keldeo, which Thundurus-T is unable to do without a Choice Scarf, and the extra power gives it an advantage over Jolteon. Aura Sphere and Weather Ball are two great coverage moves that Thundurus-T and Jolteon would love to have. Raikou even has unique access to Calm Mind, allowing it to boost its special power and bulk simultaneously, which in turn makes it a more powerful and more durable sweeper. Utilize these niches and Raikou will never disappoint.</p>

    <p>On a side note, you should always make your Raikou shiny since all event Raikou are supposed to be shiny. A non-shiny Raikou is a clear signal that you are not running Aura Sphere or Weather Ball.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind Sweeper
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Aura Sphere / Substitute / Volt Switch
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Rash / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to take advantage of one of the unique and effective tools at Raikou's disposal: Calm Mind. Raikou's excellent base 115 Special Attack and Speed make it hard to stop once it has a Calm Mind boost or two and its good special bulk is further enhanced. Thunderbolt is the STAB move with the best combination of reliability and power and Hidden Power Ice compliments Thunderbolt's coverage almost perfectly, forming a combination resisted only in OU by Thick Fat Mamoswine and Magnezone. There are a few viable options for the last slot. Although Aura Sphere forces Raikou to run a Rash nature, it threatens Kyurem-B, Terrakion, Heatran, Mamoswine, Tyranitar, and Ferrothorn, several Pokemon that would otherwise be very dangerous to the success of this set. Substitute can be used to ease prediction when forcing switches, protect Raikou from dreaded status moves, and even take weaker attacks with ease once Raikou has accumulated enough Calm Mind boosts. Defensive Latias's Dragon Pulse fails to break Raikou's Substitute the majority of time after Raikou has a Calm Mind under its belt, and defensive Celebi without Perish Song becomes helpless against Raikou with a Substitute and a Calm Mind boost. Volt Switch seems strange on a boosting set, but does have its use. With Volt Switch, Raikou can steal the momentum and wear down its checks early- and mid-game, which will help soften up the opponent's team for a late-game Calm Mind sweep. This gives Raikou much more utility in the earlier parts of the game, where it might find it difficult to sweep with Calm Mind. It is also worth noting that if you run either Substitute or Volt Switch, Raikou can freely run a Timid nature and take full advantage of its base 115 Speed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The extra power offered by the Life Orb makes it the primary option if you are running Aura Sphere or Volt Switch as your final move. However, Leftovers is preferred if you are running Substitute as Raikou will greatly appreciate the ability to heal some of the health used. Unless you are forced to run a Rash nature, Raikou should always be Timid in order to differentiate itself from Thundurus-T with its extra Speed. The EV spread is chosen to maximize the potency of Raikou's special offense. However, an EV spread of 128 HP / 52 SpA / 76 SpD / 252 Spe can be used alongside Substitute. This gives your Substitute the ability to always survive a Politoed's Scald after a Calm Mind boost, as well as a Pursuit from specially defensive mixed Tyranitar. As far as other move options go, Hidden Power Grass can be used to hit opposing Gastrodon and Quagsire, both of with would handle this set with ease otherwise. Raikou works well as a rain sweeper, in which case Thunder is a valuable addition over Thunderbolt. Likewise, Weather Ball can be used as a coverage move if Raikou is being used on a rain, sun, or hail team. Weather Ball in rain will give Raikou a weapon against Ground-type Pokemon such as Landorus-T and Donphan, while Weather Ball in sun severely threatens Grass-type Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Celebi. Weather Ball in hail can threaten both Ground- and Grass-type Pokemon, although it lacks the power boost that rain or sun would provide. However, like Aura Sphere, it is important to remember that Weather Ball requires a Rash nature.</p>

    <p>As is the case with most special attackers, Blissey and Chansey can be major hassles to this set due to their incredible special bulk. Accordingly, Fighting-type Pokemon such as Conkeldurr, Breloom, and Terrakion that can threaten these two special walls make great partners. Raikou also appreciates having entry hazards on the opponent's side of the field in order to increase its chances at OHKOs and 2HKOs. Ferrothorn in particular makes a great partner for its ability to set up Spikes and Stealth Rock, as well as force out both Quagsire and Gastrodon, two Pokemon that Raikou without Hidden Power Grass would have trouble with. If running Volt Switch, a Rapid Spin user such as Forretress could also help Raikou by removing entry hazards that Raikou would otherwise have to switch in and out of. Specially defensive Hippowdon makes a great answer to this set, and so Pokemon such as Breloom and Celebi that can keep it in check are also valuable allies.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Aura Sphere / Signal Beam
    move 4: Volt Switch
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    nature: Rash / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With such a great combination of Special Attack and Speed, it is no surprise that Raikou would be able to run a successful Choice set. When wielding a Choice Scarf, Raikou becomes an excellent check to many offensive threats such as Salamence, Gyarados, and Dragonite with a Dragon Dance boost, as well as fast Pokemon such as Terrakion and Keldeo. Even when running a Rash nature, Raikou is still able to outspeed Pokemon with a base 100 Speed stat, which makes it an effective Choice Scarf user even without a positive Speed nature. Raikou can also forgo the revenge killing utility of the Choice Scarf in favor of the raw power of Choice Specs-boosted attacks. Thunderbolt is again the primary option for a STAB move. Hidden Power Ice makes a great coverage move alongside Thunderbolt, and it gives Raikou a weapon for revenge killing Pokemon such as Salamence, Dragonite, and Thundurus-T. Aura Sphere covers Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Kyurem-B, and Mamoswine, and it is a great move for revenge killing Terrakion without a Rock Polish boost or Choice Scarf. Signal Beam can be used instead if you need the extra coverage against Pokemon such as Celebi, Latios, and Latias, and it still hits Tyranitar fairly hard. More importantly, you are free to run a Timid nature on Raikou when using Signal Beam instead of Aura Sphere. Volt Switch is an excellent option for the last moveslot. With Volt Switch, Raikou can deal significant damage to a wide variety of Pokemon while also stealing the momentum for its team.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The choice (pun intended) between the Choice Specs and Choice Scarf depends on the role you wish for Raikou to fulfill on your team. It should be noted that if you choose to use Choice Specs, it is preferred that you use a Timid nature. While you will have to forgo Aura Sphere, Raikou will have the ability to outspeed all variants of Keldeo, Tornadus, Gengar, and Latios not running Choice Scarf. Choice Scarf variants have a bit more freedom to run a Rash nature because a Rash natured Raikou can still outspeed base 100 Speed Pokemon with boosts, namely Salamence and Volcarona. You could still use a Timid nature with the Choice Scarf, however, as this will let Raikou outpace Scarf Keldeo, Terrakion, and Latios, as well as Jolly Cloyster after Shell Smash and Modest Venusaur in the sun. Besides the moves listed, Thunder is a good option if you are running Raikou on a rain team. Weather Ball can also be a valuable coverage move on a weather-based team to handle the Pokemon that resist Raikou's Electric attacks, provided you are prepared to run a Rash nature with it. In sun or hail, opposing Grass-type Pokemon such as Breloom and Celebi (as well as Ferrothorn in sun) are hit very hard, while Weather Ball in rain or hail can threaten Ground-type Pokemon such as Landorus and Gliscor.</p>

    <p>Raikou really appreciates partnership with Pokemon that can handle Chansey and Blissey. Grass-type Pokemon that can defeat those dangerous Water- and Ground-type Pokemon are also valuable, as these are checks that Raikou cannot take advantage of with Volt Switch or defeat with Hidden Power Ice. Entry hazard support is also an important factor in Raikou's success, especially because this set is exceptionally good at taking advantage of Volt Switch. The passive damage from entry hazards can also open up the possibility of a late-game sweep by Choice Scarf Raikou. Because Choice Raikou does like to utilize Volt Switch, it will obviously be switching in and out quite often. As such, Rapid Spin or Magic Bounce support can be useful for removing or preventing opposing entry hazards, which will protect Raikou's health when switching in and out. Specially defensive Hippowdon is a major threat to this set as well, and so Pokemon such as Celebi and Rotom-W that can handle it are great partners. The Choice Specs version in particular makes a great wallbreaker, and so prominent late-game sweepers such as Moxie Salamence and Rock Polish Landorus appreciate Raikou's ability to soften up opposing teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Thunderbolt / Thunder
    move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Weather Ball
    move 3: Aura Sphere
    move 4: Volt Switch / Signal Beam
    item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
    nature: Rash
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>By running an all-out attacker set, Raikou is able to take advantage of its great coverage and overall offensive presence without the restrictions of a Choice item. The combination of Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice is the primary choice for the coverage that it offers. However, because this particular set works very well on weather teams, Weather Ball makes for a particularly useful and powerful coverage move. Like Hidden Power Ice, Weather Ball in hail can form the excellent BoltBeam coverage alongside Thunderbolt, handling many of the Ground- and Grass-type Pokemon that could normally handle Electric attacks with ease. Weather Ball in sun or rain can also cover Grass- and Ground-type Pokemon, respectively, and Weather Ball will gain an additional power boost from the weather. If used on a rain team, Thunder can also be used instead of Thunderbolt for the extra power and higher paralysis rate. Aura Sphere is the best option for the third slot due to the coverage it offers against opposing Kyurem-B, Mamoswine, Ferrothorn, and Tyranitar. This set is a good user of Volt Switch. However, Signal Beam can be used to hit Latias and Celebi much harder, both of which might wall Raikou completely depending on which Weather Ball type it is using.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb offers a much appreciated boost in power at the cost of a little HP for each attack. Expert Belt offers a smaller and more exclusive power boost, but it also helps maintain Raikou's HP stat and can be used to bluff a Choice set. The EV spread is chosen as a standard for special offense, and Rash is the preferred nature due to the importance of Aura Sphere. Since Water- and Ground-type Pokemon make good switch-ins to this set, Hidden Power Grass is another option that can nail these for super effective damage. It is especially useful if you can give them a false sense of security by bluffing a Choice set with Expert Belt, making them think they have a safe switch in. If Weather Ball is used, Raikou will appreciate the help of permanent weather starters. Ninetales, Politoed, and Abomasnow are preferred, as sandstorm's Weather Ball variant offers little useful coverage. As with the other sets, Pokemon that can handle Raikou's main counters are valuable teammates. This could include Breloom and Terrakion to defeat Blissey and Chansey, as well as Celebi and Ferrothorn to handle those pesky Water- and Ground-type Pokemon. This set might have trouble with Celebi and Latias depending on the Weather Ball type you have (provided you are not using Signal Beam), and so those two are additional counters that you will have to keep in mind. Specially defensive Hippowdon can also handle even Weather Ball as it can change the weather to sandstorm, and so this set appreciates the support of Pokemon like Celebi and Rotom-W that can not only handle Hippowdon but can utilize U-turn or Volt Switch to form a momentum-stealing core with Raikou. Rapid Spin and entry hazard support from Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Forretress will also help Raikou to perform its job more effectively, and so support of that kind is always appreciated.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Despite some of Raikou's neat move options on the main sets, it has a fairly lacking movepool otherwise. Extrasensory can be used to hit some Fighting- and Poison-type Pokemon harder than Thunderbolt, notably Terrakion and Venusaur. Other Hidden Power types can be useful from time to time. For example, if you are not running Aura Sphere or Weather Ball on a sun team, Hidden Power Fire can hit Ferrothorn very hard. Shadow Ball hits Latios and Latias a little harder than Signal Beam or Hidden Power Ice while also hitting Celebi pretty hard. However, it does not cover much else that Signal Beam does not already handle. ExtremeSpeed is another move that Raikou obtained via event. Although it works off of Raikou's lower base 85 Attack stat, it can be used to 2HKO faster threats in tandem with one of Raikou's other moves. For example, Latios and Venusaur are 2HKOed by the combination of Hidden Power Ice and ExtremeSpeed, while Choice Scarf Kyurem-B is 2HKOed by the combination of Aura Sphere and ExtremeSpeed (each of these after Stealth Rock). It should be noted that ExtremeSpeed should only be considered on an all-out attacker set. Charge Beam can deal a small amount of damage with each hit and raise Raikou's Special Attack a majority of the time, but it is initially very weak and is honestly outclassed by Calm Mind. Raikou also has a pretty good support movepool, boasting options such as Reflect, Light Screen, Roar, and Thunder Wave. However, Raikou's niche lies in its offensive prowess, and so it would be best to leave the support to something else.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Blissey and Chansey are perhaps the most notable counters for Raikou, as is the case with many special attackers. Raikou has trouble getting past either of these Pokemon without significant amounts of Calm Mind boosts. Specially defensive Hippowdon can handle even a Choice Specs-boosted Hidden Power Ice and threaten back with Earthquake. It can also change the weather to sandstorm, alleviating the threat of Weather Ball. As Raikou can not run every coverage move at once, several other Pokemon are capable of handling it depending on which combination of moves it chooses. If Raikou is not running Hidden Power Grass, Gastrodon and Quagsire can easily handle almost anything that Raikou can dish out and threaten back with STAB Ground moves. Tyranitar is gravely threatened by Aura Sphere, but otherwise it switches in fairly easily and can heavily damage Raikou with Stone Edge or Earthquake. Kyurem-B's bulk lets it easily handle anything besides Aura Sphere and severely damage or OHKO Raikou with its Dragon STAB. Ferrothorn fears nothing from Raikou bar Aura Sphere and Weather Ball on sun teams while it can 2HKO Raikou with Power Whip or 3HKO with Gyro Ball. Celebi can handle sets that rely on Weather Ball in rain for coverage against Ground-type Pokemon and do not run Signal Beam, and Latias can handle those plus the variants that run Weather Ball in sun.</p>

    <p>There are several other Pokemon that make excellent checks. Dugtrio is one of the most dangerous Pokemon for Raikou to have to face. It can outspeed any non-Choice Scarf Raikou, trap it with Arena Trap, and knock it out with STAB Earthquake, so it is best to try to remove opposing Dugtrio before attempting a sweep. Heatran lacks reliable recovery to switch in constantly, but it can handle anything bar Aura Sphere and Weather Ball in rain and either hurt Raikou with Earth Power or phaze it out with Roar, possibly ending a Calm Mind sweep. Abomasnow can generally take any hit besides Aura Sphere and Signal Beam, while dealing considerable damage with Wood Hammer or Earthquake. Mamoswine also does not like Aura Sphere nor Weather Ball depending on the weather, but besides that it handles the BoltBeam combination with ease and can OHKO with Earthquake. Landorus and Garchomp are two fast Ground-types that can outspeed Rash Raikou variants and threaten with their STAB Ground attacks. Even if Raikou is using a Timid nature, both of these Pokemon, as well as Landorus-T, can easily check Raikou with Choice Scarf sets.</p>

    [Unreleased]

    <p>Raikou gets Volt Absorb from the Dream World, and it will be a great ability for Raikou once it is released. However, unless it is released alongside Weather Ball and Aura Sphere, it would be illegal with these two coverage moves. Still, the extra healing can be very useful for Raikou whenever it can switch into an opposing Electric-type attack, and it would definitely be more useful than Pressure.</p>
  2. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    O.k QC had a discussion and there are a few things that need to be fixed.

    Firstly, QC would like to see Aura Sphere slashed before Substitute on the CM set, since it hits both Tyranitar and Ferrothorn, both of which are fairly common and are difficult to handle without Aura Sphere.

    Secondly, the choice set should be the 2nd set listed as its actually not a bad revenge killer even with Rash, and the Specs set is o.k I guess.

    Thirdly, QC would like to rename the Weather Attacker set to "Non Choice Attacker" or something, removing the weather focus since Raikou doesn't need Weather Ball to be effective (Having Pseudo STAB is really nice but the trade off is missing out on Aura Sphere, Hidden Power or Volt Switch, all of which are moves it really likes. Some QC members prefer dropping Weather Ball straight to AC and replacing it with Hidden Power Ice / Grass which let you handle Dragons or Gastrodon respectively. Expert Belt is also worth consideration over Life Orb, but this is still being discussed.

    Ta
  3. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Alright, I've made those changes on the sets and tried to reflect that in the set descriptions. I went ahead and slashed HP Ice and HP Grass before Weather Ball on the Non-Choice Attacker set to help remove the emphasis on weather, but I do think that Weather Ball is a great option and it deserves at least a slash on the set. It's definitely one of the things that makes Raikou stand out, but I wouldn't mind moving it to AC if that gets enough support.
  4. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    dunno if it's standard practice in the UU analysis but I'd mention somewhere to always make Raikou shiny regardless of set - a normal coloured Raikou gives away a little too much information from the moment it steps into battle (not just the lack of Aura Sphere and Weather Ball but also the fact it's most likely Timid). just tick the box.
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Rename the 3rd set to ''all out attacker''. Also why is Hidden Power Grass in any main set? For Gastrodon and Quagsire? If yes, then HP Grass is clear AC material, as Gastrodon is low OU, and Quagsire almost irrelevant in this tier. Hidden Power Ice should be the first slash and Weather Ball the second in the third set, and HP Grass should go to AC on all sets.
  6. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    Sadly I don't know how true this is at this moment; Showdown currently does NOT require Aura Sphere/Weather Ball Raikou to be shiny in my quick test. Right now the normal Raikou in front of you in a battle could have Aura Sphere or not and you're left clueless. So until that is fixed in the simulator, it doesn't matter. Easy to go ahead and state it now while the analysis is being written up so it doesn't have to change I guess...

    EDIT: Note that if I'm wrong, please correct me. Because I honestly hope I am.
  7. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Sorry this took so long, but the third set has been renamed, and HP Grass has been moved to the Additional Comments section on the first and third sets. I've also made a small mention of making your Raikou shiny in the Additional Comments section of the first set, so that's there if we really need it. If not, I'll remove it.
  8. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    I'm not sure SubCM and all out attacking CM should be merged, they play slightly differently. Regardless, since Substitute is the main option on that set, I'd suggest a change in EVs to 128 HP / 52 SpA / 76 SpD / 252 Spe. This spread allows Raikou's Substitute to survive a defensive Politoed's Scald at +1, so with a little bit of prediction (and luck, I guess, for the burn), you can set up a Sub after you tank a Scald after a Calm Mind. It also lets your Sub survive a Pursuit from anyone who still runs Specially Defensive MixTar.
  9. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Substitute is still slashed over Aura Sphere. Reverse the other and make LO the main item slash.

    You can mention Shrang's spread in AC.
  10. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Replace Substitute with Volt Switch on CM set, imo. THere are way too many Pokemon that cockblocks SubCM Raikou for it to not be worth scraping a quarter of its health. In the other hand, Volt Switch prevents Raikou from losing momentum early- mid-game and CM sweep when the late-game conditions are favorable.
  11. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Huh, I thought I had forgotten something. Life Orb/Leftovers and Aura Sphere/Substitute have been switched. I've also mentioned shrang's EV spread in AC.

    I'm not so sure about this. Generally, if you're not using the utility of Substitute, you'll want the extra coverage of Aura Sphere. I've added Volt Switch to AC for the reasons you mentioned, but I'd like a second opinion before I put it over Substitute.
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Yeah Volt Switch is good enough for AC on the first set but no more that that. CM Raikou is a sweeper first and foremost and its moves should reflect that. Using Volt Switch to scout early and mid game is not something that CM Raikou should be doing most of the time, as by the time you bring Raikou in, it should already be ready to do its job. Raikou needs either the coverage of Aura Shpere or the protection of Sub.

    In the checks and counters section mention how Landorus and Garchomp can revenge kill Rash Raikou and can switch into its STAB moves. Even if Raikou is using Timid there are always the Scarf variants so mention them.

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved (1/3)

    Good job!
  13. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Yeah, let's get this up quickly.

    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  14. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Alright cool, thanks! I'll try to get this written up and ready for the third QC check in the next couple of days.
  15. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I believe Volt Switch > Substitute. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it actually provides Raikou some much welcomed flexibility. Raikou aint sweeping teams from the get-go when mons like Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Latias, Jirachi, Gastrodon, Celebi, Heatran etc exist. This is where Volt Switch comes in handy - it prevents Raikou from losing momentum early-game when it can't quite break through the opponent's defense. Combined with hazards, it will progressively weaken these specially defensive mons so that it can sweep later with CM-boosted Thunderbolt and Hidden Power. Volt Switch works effectively on any Raikou set, and the CM set is no different.

    ToF used the same exact set I'm suggesting and conquered the ladder in a Dark Horse Challenge. I've also experienced more success with Volt Switch CM Raikou in UU than Sub CM, and there are even less specially-defensive mons in the lower tier.

    I do not want Substitute slashed with Aura Sphere - a move that is often inferior to Volt Switch. I am also quite opposed with Aura Sphere being the primary fourth move, since Raikou appreciates its useful 115 base Speed to not be revenge-killed by Keldeo and have an easier time beating Latias. Ultimately, Volt Switch is really the only solid option for the last spot, with Aura Sphere and Substitute being AC material. PK Gaming can weigh in on this, since he agrees with me.

    Add an OO mention that any of these sets can replace Thunderbolt with a much more powerful Thunder.
  16. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Except Volt Switch isn't really helping it get past those pokemon that give Raikou problems anyway. I acknowledge that it works in a similar fashion to SD U-Turn Scizor, and don't dispute the success that ToF had on the ladder, but personally, I would prize Substitute, or Aura Sphere, since you bypass some of the pokemon that you otherwise have trouble with. Without substitute, you are very status weak, which can be quite a problem with status being fairly widespread with Scald being so prevalent, as well as Thunder Wave from Ferrothorn / Jirachi and Toxic from Toed / Tenta. Aura Sphere hits Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, both pokemon that will enjoy switching in to Raikou, as they can both force it out.

    Note that im not entirely dissing Volt Switch, its a good move, and I want it mentioned in AC at least, but I think Pocket, you are underestimating Aura Sphere / Substitute, which actually beat certain pokemon you mentioned in your post. For example, Tyranitar, Heatran, and Ferrothorn all dislike Aura Sphere, Jirachi and Celebi dislike running into Sub CM etc etc.

    I have no idea why you mentioned Gastrodon in your post. Volt Switch isn't letting you beat that since it fails upon hitting a ground type so idk. Sure, VOlt Switch does help with hazard support, but if I have (say) 1 layer of Spikes and 1 layer of SR up, then I could accomplish a similar solution just by spamming Thunderbolt and gradually weakening them. Although I acknowledge that I don't get the momentum that Volt Switch gives me

    That said, I don't really care too much about the final order, but I don't think Sub or Aura Sphere should be AC (I could maybe bend on Sub but I really like Aura Sphere for getting past some of the shit that hard walls you).

    Just my 2 cents I guess
  17. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Just wanting to add on the Pokemon that ginga mentioned as targets of Aura Shpere... Here are the main 5 targets in OU: Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, Kyurem-B, Mamoswine, Heatran. And all 5 are pretty damn important! The first 4 Pokemon just destroy Raikou without Aura Shpere, while Heatran can either survive Tbolt easily even at +1 and phaze or just hit hard with Earth Power if it is the offensive variant. As i trust Pocket, and PK agrees with him too, i say slash all three moves in the last slot, as all are very usefull. Aura Shpere is already explained, Sub allows Raikou to set-up Subs without fearing random Scald, Toxic, and T-Wave, while finally Volt Switch gives early and mid game utility, and allows Raikou to wear down some if its counters if used with hazards.

    EDIT: Aura Shpere hits Aboma too, which is a very good check to the CM set otherwise, with a physically based set.
  18. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    I wouldn't mention choices Raikou. I have such bad feedback from using it. AC it on all out attacker imo
  19. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Alright, Volt Switch has plenty of support as a main option on the CM set, so I've slashed it next to Aura Sphere and Substitute. If no one objects, we'll just go with that.
  20. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    No objections here
  21. dice

    dice infinite bliss flows but does not ebb
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    I object.

    SD U-Turn Scizor has actual bulk from investment and ROOST. This guy is getting 10%'d from Volt Switch and it will barely be able to pull of a CM.

    no.
  22. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Okay, I finally got this written up. This is ready for the last QC check and any further criticism.
  23. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Tornadus is not a prominent threat. Replace it with Thundurus-T or Garchomp.

    I would advice you to change the structure of your overview. Keep the content, as it is good though. For example you start by mentioning Raikou's positive qualities, then you say that it has competition from other Pokemon and certain other flaws, and then you mention again its positive traits. So here is what i propose... First talk about how Jolteon and Thundurus-T give it competition and any other drawback it may have (must use Rash to have Aura Shpere, etc). Then in the second paragraph continue by saying that even though it gets competition it has its pros, and start mentioning them. Imo it will look much tidier this way. As i said again only change the order of the sentences/paragraphs as the content is good, and maybe delete some repetitive pros that you have mentioned.

    Add Kyurem-B, Terrakion, Heatran, and Mamoswine here, as they are very important Pokemon that Aura Sphere hits.

    Provide some examples of Pokemon that Sub helps against.

    Also when talking about Volt Switch in the CM set, make clear that one of the draws of this move is that it gives Raikou more utility in early and mid-game.

    Why would someone use Weather Ball on said weathers? Mention some Pokemon that Weather Ball hits on each weather.

    Replace Conkeldurr with Breloom.

    In the AC of the CM set also add some teammates to take care of SpD Hippo, a pretty good counter to Raikou. Breloom works fine, as does Celebi, which also takes care of Gastrodon and Quagsire.

    Add a few more examples such as Mamoswine and Kyurem-B, which completely wall Raikou otherwise.

    Replace Shadow Ball with Signal Beam on the choice set. Signal Beam hits harder than anything else on the set Ttar, Celebi, and Abomasnow, if not running Aura Sphere, while Shadow Ball hits nothing that the other moves don't cover. Don't even mention Shadow Ball in the AC.

    Once again provide some examples of Pokemon that Weather Ball is useful for in each weather.

    On the AC of the choice set mention Pokemon that can deal with Ground-types looking to block your STAB attacks, epsecially Hippowdon, which counters the Scarf set. Once again, Celebi is a good choice, as is Rotom-W.

    On the all-out attacker set replace Shadow Ball with Signal Beam and don't mention Shadow Ball in the AC. Also explain what important targets Weather Ball hits in each weather.

    Please elaborate. You are supposed to mention specific examples of good teammates here not just say which Pokemon counter this set, which is done in the checks and counters section anyway. Add partners to take care of SpD Hippo too.

    Remove Extremespeed and Signal Beam from OO, and instead add Shadow Ball.

    As for checks and counters, add Kyurem, Kyurem-B, and Abomasnow, who only fear Aura Shpere.
  24. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Alright, I've made all the changes that alexwolf suggested. It took me a little while to reorganize the overview while trying to keep it flowing smoothly, so please let me know if you think I need to put a little more thought into that, or if anything else still needs to change for that matter.

    I've added Breloom here, but I personally would like to keep the mention of Conkeldurr. While non-Poison Heal Breloom and Terrakion hate switching into Blissey and Chansey's Thunder Wave (and to a lesser extent, Toxic), Conkeldurr take advantage of those with Guts and heal off whatever damage Blissey and Chansey can do with Drain Punch, so I just feel that it's an overall more reliable switch-in.
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Ok keep Conkeldurr! Also i thought about it more and Extremespeed is not a totally unviable option on all out attacking Raikou, as it can help Raikou 2HKO some faster Pokemon that like to switch into it such as Latios (HP Ice + ES 2HKO after SR), Scarf Kyurem-B (Aura Shpere + ES 2HKO after SR), and Venusaur in sun (HP Ice + ES 2HKO after SR). So put it back in OO and mention the examples i highlighted while also explaining that it is only useful in the all out attacking set and with a Rash nature.

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