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Rain,Rain,Dont go away

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by RiskVsRewardPlayer, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. RiskVsRewardPlayer

    RiskVsRewardPlayer

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    46
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    Hey there smogon. Im here with my second RMT^^. I really liked the rates/reviews that you guy's gave me in my UU RMT. This team is a fairly standard rain team so bare with me.


    [​IMG]
    Kyogre @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVS: 252 spA / 236 hp /20 spe
    Modest Nature
    -Water Spout
    -Ice beam
    -Thunder
    -Hydro Pump
    Here is my First member: Kyogre. Since i'm making a rain team, there always have to be a rain starter and the only one that i would choose, is kyogre. He can run different sets such as the scarf,specs and spdef set, but i had to choose one: The specs set. With hazard support from dialga and help from genesect, Kyogre and genesect pressures alot of team teams because of there wallbreaking power. Water spout is his Main STAB move, as it hit's pokes like a truck under the rain. Thunder and ice beam gives kyogre some nice coverage forming a bolt-beam combo. Hydro pump is mainly a filler move, but it has some nice uses when kyogre is at low HP. 20 spe allows me to speed creep other choice specs kyogre, groudon, and ho-oh.
    [​IMG]
    Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVS: 252 spe / 252 sp.atk / 4 hp
    Timid Nature
    -Hydro pump/Surf
    -Spacial rend
    -Thunder
    -Fire blast
    Kingdra was here before but i think palkia would be better since palkia doesn't have to rely on the rain to make him powerful and can make me have a easier time against Arceus-grass and ferrothorn. Usually, Hydro pump would be his main STAB move as it hits things like a truck under the rain, but surf could work too if you don't want to miss. There is no reason not to put spacial rend on palkia as it doesn't have more power then draco meteor, but it doesn't get the sp.atk drop. Thunder allows me to deal with kyogre and lugia. Fire blast allows me to hit Arceus-Grass and ferrothorn that can easily tank palkia's other 3 moves.


    [​IMG]
    Dialga @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EV's 252 hp / 236 SpD / 20 Spe
    Modest Nature
    -Dragon pulse
    -Fire blast
    -Thunder wave
    -Stealth rocks
    Dialga is usually my lead as he is my stealth rock user. He is also a good check to Palkia. Specially Defensive Dialga really pairs well with Physically defensive Giratina-O as they cover each other's weakness. 12 spe allows me to speed creep support groudon and Standard Ho-oh. Dragon Pulse was used here instead of Draco meteor, but to me Draco meteor does a much better job. Fire blast allows me to destroy ferrothorn, forretress, and genesect. Thunder wave cripples lot's of poke's uses and help's Arceus-N to be able to set up a sword dance.
    [​IMG]
    Giratina-O @ griseous orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVS 236 hp / 252 def / 20 spe
    Impish nature
    -Dragon tail
    -Shadow sneak
    -Magic coat
    -Will-o-wisp
    Here is my 5th member Giratina-O. He is my main answer to Extremekiller arceus and RP Groudon. I knew that RP groudon is a threat to this team so i had to make a check to it. 252 def was obligatory on a physically defensive giratina as it allows him to take hits from strong attackers
    252+ Life orb Groudon Dragon claw vs 252 HP/184+ def Giratina-O: (41.86-49.6%) Guaranteed 3HKO.
    After taking a hit from groudon, i can just burn him and then phaze him out with Dragon tail. 20spe also allows me to speed creep Support groudon/ Standard Ho-oh. Shadow sneak is a nice STAB priority move kill off weakened Mewtwo's. Magic coat is a amazing move to have since it doesn't make Giratina-O hazard fodder.
    [​IMG]
    Genesect @ Choice scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVS: 252 spe / 8 sp.atk / 248 atk
    Naive nature
    -U-Turn
    -Ice beam
    -Iron head
    -Explosion
    Here comes genesect. With choice scarf, this guy becomes a great revenge killer/Late game sweeper. What makes genesect such a good scarfer is that it has access to U-turn, Great speed and giving this team offensive momentum. U-turn is his Main STAB move and the most important move on this set. Genesect spends most of his time U-turn on Big threats such as Mewtwo and Darkrai. Icebeam allows him to revenge kill weakened dragon types such as rayquaza. I had 8 sp.atk since that ensures it could kill rayquaza at full HP. Iron head could deal with scarfed Kyurem-W that could be a problem. Explosion is just a filler move since Flamethrower would be worthless since it's power is reduced in the rain.
    [​IMG]
    Arceus @ Silk scarf
    Trait: Multitype
    EVS 252 atk / 56 spe / 200 hp
    Adamant nature
    -Extreme speed
    -Shadow claw
    -Brick break
    -Sword dance
    Arceus is my final team member. This set is arceus signature set and thats why it is called the "Extreme killer". Extremespeed is his STAB move as it is a priority move so this makes Arceus extremely hard to revenge kill. Shadow enables me to hit Ghost types such as Arceus-Ghost that could give arceus some trouble. Sword dance can boost his Extremespeed power to high levels as most pokemon will be either 3HKO-OHKO. This also makes arceus a excellent Late-game sweeper. Brick break can deal with rock and steel types that resist Extremespeed and shadow claw (Especially ferrothorn).


    CONCLUSION:
    Well there you have it, my Uber Rain team. I had some great time's with this team i was happy to show it off. Let me know what i should take out/add in. I hope you guys enjoyed this RMT!


    Importable:

    Code:
    Kyogre @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 SAtk / 20 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Water Spout
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder
    - Hydro Pump
    
    Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Spacial Rend
    - Surf
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunder
    
    Dialga @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave
    
    Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 20 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Dragon Tail
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Magic Coat
    
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Spd / 248 Atk / 8 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Ice Beam
    - Iron Head
    - Explosion
    
    Arceus @ Silk Scarf
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 Atk / 200 HP / 56 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Shadow Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  2. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    I think your team's pretty solid. With a quick glance, I don't see any glaring weaknesses (HOORAY! A decent Ubers RMT!)

    A couple nitpicks though that might help. I'm not 100% sure about that Kyogre set. You may wish to try a more durable set like the RestTalk set, as to keep rain up, but if you're confident with the set, you definitely want to bump up the number of Speed EVs you're running (12-16, maybe higher).

    You might want to test out the Mixed set on Kingdra (it probably won't make that much of a difference, but it may help).

    The current Giratina-O set looks like Spikes fodder, and the majority of your team has no way around Ferrothorn. I'd run HP Fire > Substitute to help alleviate this.

    I'd run Silk Scarf > Life Orb on Arceus-Normal, as this way you don't kill yourself off through residual damage. Brick Break > Earthquake might be a good choice as well, to take down Ferrothorn, etc. I think you may want to push more EVs from Speed into HP, as that spread's sort of outdated, and bulky Arceus-Normal has an easier time setting up.
  3. Sweep

    Sweep
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator

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    Yeah, Ferrothorn is an issue for this team. HP Fire will not hit it that hard in the rain either if you choose to put it on Giratina-O :(. I agree with blitzle that Brick break over Earthquake on LO Extremekiller makes sense to help alleviate this weakness, but it will still be a pain. Arceus-Grass is also an issue; only Genesect can hit it hard without getting hit hard back, and Grassceus can just recover off the U-turn damage. For example, Kingdra doesn't hit max HP Grassceus that hard while Grassceus can paralyze it and Recover. Try paralyzing it with Dialga and wearing it down...EKiller will also do well long long it lacks Will-O-Wisp.

    Apart from that and Ghostceus (which you already mentioned), I don't see any clear weaknesses. I like that you speed creeped Dialga and Giratina-O a bit, this will pay off significantly!
  4. RiskVsRewardPlayer

    RiskVsRewardPlayer

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    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
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    Thanks guys for the rate^^. I made some changes that you guys suggested me:
    Kyogre's EVS: 252 sp.atk / 244 hp / 12 spe (I can speed creep specsogre, support groudon, and ho-oh
    Arceus: Life orb>silk scarf and Earthquake>Brick break New EV spread: 252 atk / 128 spe / 128 hp.
    Giratina-O: Substitute> Hidden power fire ( as long as he lead's with ferrothorn, then i could switch into giratina-O to deal with it)
  5. GymLdr^Destruction

    GymLdr^Destruction

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Hey dude! I really love this team. You seem to have checks/counters to most pokes in Uber. That strategy you are using to deal with arceus-Ghost is quite fascinating. I got nothing to say as sweep and blitzlefan already gave you ideas. ill be using this team alot :P
  6. BiggumsFamily

    BiggumsFamily

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    Jul 10, 2013
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    Hey there, this is a pretty solid team. Got nothing to say right now since im on my phone, but this is one of those team that can handle palkia ( I wonder if Donkey is impressed ;))
  7. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    hey man really cool team!

    so yeah i also support the change of kyogre to the specially defensive variant. this helps you better take on cm arceus forms like ghost arceus or ground arceus which would otherwise be a pain. feel free to speed creep a bit on it, like 16 speed evs as was mentioned, to outspeed threats like no-speed ho-oh, groudon, or dialga. hp fire in the rain on giratina-o won't help you, unfortunately. magic coat, however, helps you wonderfully: it helps you bounce back hazards to ferrothorn's side of the battlefield, and with will-o-wisp and dragon tail you can easily beat it along with the hazards stacked. this also helps you against deoxys-s teams and aids kingdra better on its sweep. i also believe you should try a mixed kingdra instead; this would help kingdra sweep better, as it now can hit both sides of defense. ice beam might be worthy to keep though, to help you a little bit more with grass arceus, but definitely not neccesary.

    you could also try using lum berry on arceus and leftovers on dialga. you still maintain the ability to fight smashpass and have more of a chance to sweep. the only ohko at +2 you might miss is on rayquaza; palkia and mewtwo are dealt just fine by the rest of your team members.

    good luck!! :toast:
  8. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    I agree with the others, this team seems to manage all the top Ubers threats quite well and doesn't seem to have any significant weaknesses. Full stall could give it trouble due to the lack of wallbreaking power, but hardly anyone plays full stall anyway.

    I think the mixed set (Waterfall / Outrage / Draco Meteor / filler) might be worth a try on Kingdra, because currently using Draco Meteor at all weakens it a lot, while a mixed Kingdra can fire off a powerful Draco Meteor and then continue to use full power Waterfalls/Outrages. Waterfall is weaker than Hydro Pump, but will never fail you with its accuracy and has a nice 30% flinch rate, while Outrage unfortunately locks you in but is more powerful than Dragon Pulse and more spammable than Draco Meteor. You win some, you lose some, but I think the set is worth testing to see which works better for you.

    Also, I recommend investing in more bulk on Arceus. 128 speed gives you max speed base 90s, but very few of them run 252+ speed; for most part 56 (neutral natured base 95s) or 16 (neutral natured base 90s) speed EVs will serve you just as well. Furthermore, even though your Arceus can theoretically always survive 2 Focus Blasts from Arceus-Ghost, realistically this is not quite true; since you have nothing to really prevent or remove Stealth Rock (which is essentially ubiquitous) and your Arceus has no way of healing entry hazard damage, you should always factor it into your calculations. This goes for Giratina-O too.
  9. RiskVsRewardPlayer

    RiskVsRewardPlayer

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    Thanks to everyone who rated my team^^. Im testing the specially defensive kyogre and mixed kingdra that you guys suggested.
    @Furai I never used magic coat on a giratina before and its a great surprise to the opponent ;)
    @Bluejay I completely forgot to factor in SR Damage, but im still keeping the EV spread on giratina ;) (but that arceus spread sounds interesting)
  10. Ohshetitsazubat

    Ohshetitsazubat Banned deucer.

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    Hey there. I faced your team on PS xD. I can't believe how balance this team is o.O.
    RiskVsRewardPlayer likes this.
  11. myhugeboijoe

    myhugeboijoe

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    This team is getting great reviews! I do agree that this team check all of the ubers threat!
    Luvdisc'd <3
  12. cellgoondude

    cellgoondude

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2013
    Messages:
    118
    Great Great team.
    I absolutely love it.
    Btw random comment, why do people only use 3 formes of Arceus.
    RiskVsRewardPlayer likes this.
  13. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    As unfortunately using any Arceus forme on a team prevents you from using a different forme on the same team, using any forme but the one that is best for the team compromises the team through opportunity cost. Also, consider its qualities; none of its stats are excellent by themselves, and any forme other than Arceus-Normal is restricted to use a Plate, which is useful for some offensive formes but not a very versatile item. There are Pokemon with better defensive stats and there are Pokemon with better offensive stats, so Arceus must take advantage of both its offensive and defensive stats in a set to truly shine. Some typings simply do not make good use of its stats (eg Ice, Fire, Flying and Bug are good offensive types, but SR weakness and a weakness to common types means it cannot make good use of its defenses). Some formes also find themselves largely outclassed (Kyogre outclasses many Arceus-Water, Mewtwo mostly outclasses offensive Arceus-Psychic, etc).

    This leaves Arceus-Normal and Arceus-Ghost as top formes. Arceus-Normal is able to take advantage of its typing offensively as it provides it with STAB Extremespeed and defensively as it lacks weaknesses apart from the relatively uncommon Fighting and can use its bulk to set up with incredible ease. It is also free to use different items. Arceus-Ghost functions as a spinblocker, a valuable supportive trait for many teams. Its typing grants it few weaknesses and some useful resistances/immunities to take advantage of its bulk, while Ghost is also a good attacking type, hitting many walls in Uber super effectively and having excellent coverage with just 1 coverage move (Focus Blast/Brick Break).

    Other Arceus formes which are generally considered superior are also defined by the rest of the metagame. Arceus-Grass has useful resistances in a tier where rain dominates. Arceus-Steel is the most generally bulky Steel type in Ubers, which is filled with powerful dragons. Arceus-Fighting is the only Fighting-type Pokemon with Uber-worthy stats, where Fighting has a few oddly useful resistances and only rare weaknesses, while also being an excellent offensive type.
  14. RiskVsRewardPlayer

    RiskVsRewardPlayer

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    I'd like to thank again to people who have liked/Rated my team^^. I decided to change kingdra for palkia as it worked more better then kingdra.
  15. Unfixable

    Unfixable

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    A set NO ONE ever uses, but I personally use is Shift Gear Genesect.
    [​IMG]
    Genesect @ Life Orb
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Hasty Nature
    - Shift Gear
    - X-Scissor
    - Iron Head
    - ExtremeSpeed

    This set is so unexpected and does a number to anything that is not a steel type. Shift Gear, on top of the possible +1 attack already turns this beast into a monster. Imagine: +2 +2 Life Orb 252 Iron Head coming off that 120 Attack and STAB is pretty freaking scary.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
  16. Haruno

    Haruno

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    impossible set. Gene has to run a hasty nature to use espeed/blaze kick/shift gear. And even then having 3 moves that are all resisted by steel is fucking awful.
  17. Unfixable

    Unfixable

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    ty for correcting. I wouldve added blaze Kick, but the rain hinders it. If you remove steels however.
  18. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Extremespeed is completely redundant, as you outspeed the entire metagame, resist all the common priority in Ubers and fail to KO much anything with it even at +2. In addition to steel types, any physical walls laugh at it. It also pretty much fails to KO anything it does not get a super effective hit on if it is only at +1.

    People are aware of Shift Gear Genesect. It is merely underwhelming, since it lacks power (+2 is conditional, the moves have low base power, the coverage is poor), is not the easiest to set up (if something stays in when you expect it to switch out you will usually be crippled or significantly weakened) and worst of all contributes little to a team in terms of support or synergy. Where Scarf Genesect fulfills the necessary role of a revenge killer and provides great momentum with U-Turn, this set is an independent sweeper that supports the team in no way at all (even the useful resistances are mitigated by the vulnerability to hazards and Life Orb which means that it does not want to switch in at all without proceeding to sweep).

    I'm not sure why this set is being discussed here though. Shift Gear Genesect certainly would not serve this team better than Scarf Genesect is currently.
  19. Unfixable

    Unfixable

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    I mentioned it because Shift Gear's Speed given to it allows it to switch moves and not have to use a scarf. I guess you could waste the added Physical bonus and go for a set consisting of Shift Gear/Ice Beam/Bug Buzz/Iron Head or Something Else.
  20. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    The whole point of Scarf Pokemon is immediate speed, in order to be able to revenge kill various Pokemon that have set up or that are just very fast naturally. Without a Scarf Pokemon something like Mewtwo or Rayquaza can terrorize teams.
  21. myhugeboijoe

    myhugeboijoe

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    Great team! Even though i'm to late to say that.........

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