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Rain Team By Desmond Miles

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Desmond Miles, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. Desmond Miles

    Desmond Miles

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Hi I am niwbie world's Pokemon ^_^
    I am a reknow yu-gi-oh italian player(quote from y*u t**e XD ), I'm used to monometa and mirror match, that's why I chose to start in OU
    Could you tell me where we first appears?


    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 Spd / 252 HP / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]


    Being able to deal with this set is a requirement for OU teams. Politoed might not have the most dangerous stats or movepool, but the viability of this set is determined by its ability to summon rain upon entry, making its STAB attacks considerably more dangerous. The boost from Choice Specs and rain more than doubles the power of Hydro Pump, which allows it to 2HKO some of the most specially bulky Pokemon in OU, including Jirachi, Latios, and Mew. It is not easy to switch in a Pokemon that simply resists Water-type attacks due to its massive damage output.
    Even without coverage, only the bulkiest of resists are capable of tangoing with the walking flood that is Politoed. One of the few things stopping Politoed from drowning everything in its path is Hydro Pump's imperfect accuracy, as a 20% deduction has a proven side effect of costing games. In case you want to play it on the safe side, Surf is a viable option in lieu of or alongside Hydro Pump to ensure that an untimely miss doesn't come into play during the simple act of revenge KOing a target.
    Ice Beam, Hidden Power Grass, and Focus Blast all serve a similar function in tripping up Politoed's usual checks, provided you can predict their switch-in. Ice Beam prevents the likes of Latias and Dragonite from switching in and setting up freely, while also warding off Celebi and Virizion, who can take a Hydro Pump better than most. Hidden Power Grass is Politoed's best option against both Gastrodon and Jellicent, who make most of Politoed's offensive options useless. Focus Blast will probably see the least use of the three coverage options, as its only notable targets are Ferrothorn and the odd Abomasnow; however, Ferrothorn's omnipresence and Politoed's lack of convincing other options make it the optimal choice for the third slot. Do keep in mind that it's usually safest to open up with a STAB attack, as its coverage moves are much weaker and easy to punish.
    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Protect

    This set excels at spinning away hazards for both balanced and stall teams alike. Unlike other users of Rapid Spin, Tentacruel is able to absorb Toxic Spikes, facilitating its work as a spinner. Tentacruel isn't limited to spinning either—it can spread status and stall out many threats.
    Although Tentacruel has access to Toxic Spikes, Toxic is still the preferable move. This is because many teams benefit more from the immediate poison, and there are also many Flying-types and Levitate Pokemon that can only be poisoned by Toxic. Toxic also has other advantages, such as allowing Tentacruel to consistently defeat most relevant spinblockers in rain. Nevertheless, Toxic Spikes is still a viable option, and Tentacruel has a niche as one of the few viable users of this move. Toxic Spikes is preferred on stall teams, or when using a sweeper that benefits from certain walls being crippled, particularly those with Natural Cure.
    The third slot goes to Scald, the best STAB move that Tentacruel can run. It has the same power under rain as a Hydro Pump outside of rain and has a 30% chance to burn the target, discouraging Pokemon such as Gyarados and Dragonite from switching in, even though they resist the move. The move in the fourth slot depends on your preference. Protect is the main choice, as it allows Tentacruel to stall for more Leftovers + Rain Dish recovery. Protect also has the ability to scout Choice users and stop SubDisable Gengar from ruining your day. Another good option is Substitute, which blocks status and Leech Seed, and most stall teams typically have trouble breaking Tentacruel's Substitutes. When using Substitute, remember to only use it with Toxic, and not Toxic Spikes.

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Power Whip
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave / Protect (Test)

    This set is Ferrothorn's standard fare and is what it will be running the majority of the time. Spikes work excellently on Ferrothorn, giving it something to do after switching in on an opponent that can't touch it. Leech Seed is also a very effective move, useful for preventing opposing Pokemon from setting up on it while providing self-healing at the same time. Gyro Ball and Power Whip are Ferrothorn's best attacking options, hitting the majority of the standard metagame for at least neutral damage. However, because Ferrothorn's Attack stat is less than impressive without any investment, Protect is an appealing alternative over either move; it is useful not only for scouting, but for racking up Leech Seed and Leftovers recovery as well. Gyro Ball and Power Whip each have their own merits; the former is more useful against faster threats—most notably Dragon-types and Gengar—while the latter is more useful against Water-types and slow Pokemon, such as Reuniclus.
    In addition to the moves listed, two other viable options in Ferrothorn's movepool are Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave. While Ferrothorn is typically better suited for setting up Spikes, Stealth Rock can be used over Leech Seed, although this means Ferrothorn is left without any means of recovery outside of Leftovers. Although Thunder Wave has poor synergy with Gyro Ball and can be difficult to fit into a moveset, it allows Ferrothorn to cripple many of its common counters, such as Infernape and Hydreigon. Ferrothorn can also use Shed Shell in order to escape from Magnezone and Wobbuffet, although this means that Ferrothorn loses out on valuable Leftovers recovery.

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Agility
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Grass Knot

    Unlike Thundurus-T's other sets, this set is meant to catch opponents by surprise by luring and OHKOing Pokemon that assume Thundurus-T is equipped with a Choice item with the appropriate move. Gastrodon, for example, can be fooled into thinking that Thundurus-T is running a Choice Scarf and then be promptly obliterated by Grass Knot. Expert Belt is also useful because Thundurus-T already takes a lot of entry hazard damage, doesn't appreciate Life Orb recoil when Volt Switching, and has good super effective coverage.
    Thunder should be used instead if you are using a rain team. Hidden Power Ice is the best coverage move to use alongside Thunder (or Thunderbolt) and Volt Switch, hitting many threats in this metagame super effectively, especially considering that most of them resist Thundurus-T's Electric-type STAB. Unlike other sets, Grass Knot is preferred here over Focus Blast, as the ability to lure in and KO Gastrodon is invaluable to many teams. It also nails Hippowdon harder than Hidden Power Ice and hits Tyranitar more accurately than Focus Blast, 2HKOing most of those that don't invest in Special Defense. If you feel that Gastrodon is not a problem, Focus Blast can still be used, as Ferrothorn walls Thundurus-T otherwise. It is also its best option against Magnezone and Jolteon.
    Agility makes it faster than any other pokemon used in the metagame.


    [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Trait: Moxie
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Dance
    - Bounce

    Apart from RestTalk, all of Gyarados's sets loathe status, which this set aims to avoid through the use of Substitute. Substitute lets Gyarados safely set up on moves such as Scald, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Will-O-Wisp, and other status moves that would otherwise drastically decrease its likelihood of sweeping. It also prevents Gyarados from being revenge killed by Choice Scarf users such as the omnipresent Rotom-W by serving as a buffer against the incoming Volt Switch or Thunderbolt, giving Gyarados another turn to either attack or set up with Dragon Dance. With its excellent bulk, typing, and choice of abilities, Gyarados can easily grab a Dragon Dance boost and plow through the opposing team.
    Waterfall is the obligatory STAB move, hitting many Pokemon for neutral damage and benefiting from the power boost provided by Drizzle. Bounce and Stone Edge are both viable options for the last slot; Bounce allows Gyarados to dispatch of bulky Grass-types such as Celebi, while Stone Edge offers superior coverage against Dragon / Flying types such as Dragonite and Salamence and hits Rotom-W for neutral damage. The EVs for this set allow Gyarados to outspeed all base 115 Speed Pokemon (notably Starmie) after one Dragon Dance, and it also renders a burned Ferrothorn unable to break its Substitutes with Power Whip. However, it is important to note that even an Intimidated Scizor is still able to break Gyarados's Substitutes with U-turn at least some of the time.

    [​IMG]

    Scizor @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 30 Def / 30 SDef
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    With a Choice Scarf equipped, Scizor becomes a speedy revenge killer that can check an array of common offensive Pokemon. However, the lack of both raw power and defensive investment means that Choice Scarf Scizor must be played with more care, picking off opposing Pokemon here and there to give the user the upper hand.
    Choice Scarf and U-turn jointly allow Scizor to outspeed and OHKO Psychic-types such as Celebi, Alakazam, and offensive Starmie. Scizor will also score an OHKO on Latios after Stealth Rock and will remove a severe chunk of Latias's HP. U-turn will also still play its normal role of keeping momentum, taking advantage of switches. Iron Head provides a second STAB move and will typically OHKO Terrakion after Stealth Rock damage. With Scizor's increased Speed, Iron Head's 30% flinch chance also becomes more useful. Furthermore, Iron Head can act as a late-game cleaning move when the opponent's team is weakened, as Scizor can often outspeed and then finish off threats. The flinch chance and increased power are the main reasons to use Iron Head over Bullet Punch, but the latter is an option if you are desperate for some form of priority move.
    Superpower is mostly for Tyranitar, Lucario, and Magnezone; it also allows Scizor to deal with weakened non-Choice Scarf Heatran. Aerial Ace enables Scizor to revenge kill Virizion and Breloom as well as OHKO Infernape and Volcarona after Stealth Rock. It is worth noting that Scizor can outspeed neutral +1 Volcarona that run fewer than 60 Speed EVs, making it an especially decent check to slower but bulkier Volcarona (assuming Stealth Rock is in play). Pursuit is a solid alternative to remove weakened Psychic- and Ghost-types, but it tends to detract from Scizor's ability to straight up OHKO quick and frail Pokemon.

    What is the best pokemon to start with? By what criteria you choose?

    What is the best order to follow the attacks of Ferrothorn? And of Tentacruel?
  2. MilkyWay01

    MilkyWay01

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    192
    Wow this team has literally every pokemon I have on my rain team, no joke, with the exception of when I play on my ds I use breloom over thundurus t because I don't have bw 2. Well anyway I don't have any critism for your pokemon, but a little bit with the movesets.

    On Keldeo, I think hidden power ice > hidden power ghost, although hp ghost hits jellicent, alakazam, latios, and latias hard, I find that hp ice is better because it can hit dragons harder, and grass types. This would leave you walled by jellicent but I think it's worth it, and there's always the option of switching out.

    Secondly, on dragonite I had the same problem with the set. I just couldn't decide. There was the smogon rain set, a mixed set, and the standard physical set, which you seem to be similar too. I liked the rain set, but I found that I couldn't pass up dragonites base 134 attack. I finally chose this set:

    Dragonite
    @Life Orb
    Multiscale
    252atk, 100sp atk, 56hp (lonely nature)
    Outrage, hurricane, dragon dance, roost

    Although life orb hurts multiscale, it doesn't affect me with this set too bad because I dragon dance on the first turn so I don't take any life orb recoil that breaks multiscale. After that I'm usually faster than them and I ordinarily go to outrage. However, I have hurricane for physical walls and steel types, such as ferrothorn wich would otherwise wall me. Hurricane can also hit grass types which threaten my team, being a rain team and all. Roost is good because if you predict their switch right, or just find a good chance, you can use it and get multiscale back. With your set I find two problems, the first is that focus punch just doesn't seem like a good move on dragonite unless you are running a substitute set. The second is that you are using fire punch on a rain team. Although this is great for ferrothorn and scizor even in the rain, you won't get much use out of it. However, if you aren't using a rain team I would definitely reccomend fire punch over hurricane.

    Finally, this doesnt matter too much and both of these moves are very useful but I find that protect > thunder wave. This is because you can get an extra turn of leech seed + leftovers recovery which can be necessary to keep ferrothorn alive in many situations.
  3. Desmond Miles

    Desmond Miles

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    What is the best nature of Ferrothorn?

    What is best decrease? Att, SpA, Spe???

    Thanks for the advice, now I'll try. Even if the move spectrum has an effect to surprise;)
  4. Alter

    Alter lions in her heart
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    667
    Hey,

    If you're not using any physical moves, it's attack with 0 ivs into it.

    If you're aiming to be as slow as possible, always use a -Spe nature and 0 ivs in speed.

    If you're using physical moves and don't want to decrease your spread (and not using Gyro Ball), use a -Sp. Atk nature.
  5. Kempo

    Kempo

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    This is the dragonite I use for rain



    item: Leftovers/life orb ability:Multiscale nature: Mild
    Moveset
    ~ Hurricane
    ~ Aqua Tail
    ~ Earthquake/ thunder
    ~ ExtremeSpeed / Roost
    Evs
    136 Atk / 192 SpA / 180 Spe
    Good luck :)
  6. Desmond Miles

    Desmond Miles

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Keldeo I want to remove. Has weaknesses too similar to others.
    Dragonite if I want to use the physical.

    Have you 2 Pokemon to suggest?

    A nice set for Scizor?

    Do you Hurricane consider him strong and useful in a Rain Team?

    Why Ferrothorn should be slow?
  7. tintinwong

    tintinwong

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    96
    Expert belt on thundy fakes the choice better than a life orb.
    Also, wrong picture.
  8. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    510
    Hi there,

    Pretty solid Rain Team you got here, but I feel there are a few things you might want to change. The first thing I see is a pretty big weakness to Dragons that can break through Ferrothorn such as Life Orb Latios, Substitute Calm Mind Latias and Substitute variants of Kyurem-B. All three look pretty annoying for your team, as they all come in on Tentacruel for free, and the latter two can deal with Thundurus-T pretty easily too. I'd consider dropping Thunder Wave / Protect in place of Gyro Ball. Gyro Ball hits the faster Latias and Latios for a large amount, while Kyurem-B is walled even harder by Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball. It also hits stuff like Alakazam and Gengar harder, both of which might want to come in for free against Ferrothorn predicting Stealth Rock, Leech Seed or Protect.

    Another thing I noticed about your team was the set you're choosing to run on Tentacruel. By the looks of things, your team is aiming to sweep with Thundurus-T by weakening its checks through Politoed and Dragonite and Tentacruel can help through spinning away Stealth Rock and setting up Toxic Spikes. I'd argue however that most of Thundurus-T's most common switch-ins [Latias, Celebi, Chansey, Jirachi] don't really care about Toxic Spikes anyway, and they're more of a liability against stall teams which you seem to struggle against. I'd strongly consider dropping Toxic Spikes in place of Toxic, as you can actually wear down common Tentacruel switch-ins, namely Lati@s and Kyurem-B, as well as more effectively forcing about the previous Thundurus-T switch-ins as you're not solely focused on keeping Toxic Spikes up, whereas you can just spam Toxic with no drawback. It also hits Rotom-W, which is huge considering Rotom-W comes in for free against Politoed as well as Tentacruel, as can just continually Volt Switch out of Ferrothorn into something more threatening.

    Speaking of moveset changes, I'd also consider dropping Hidden Power [Grass] on Politoed for Surf. Having two STAB moves on Politoed is really nice, as you now have the choice of power or accuracy, and for a fairly offensive team such as this it means you're not going to be turned into setup fodder as easily. Hitting Gastrodon / Quagsire isn't that important when you have a Ferrothorn who flat-out beats both with ease. As for the choice of Hidden Power [Ghost] or Hidden Power [Ice] on Keldeo, I'd probably go with Hidden Power [Ghost] as you retain perfect coverage alongside Secret Sword. While you miss out on hitting stuff like Dragonite and Salamence, neither of them are switching into Keldeo anyway, and Hidden Power [Ice] is better suited for Scarf Keldeo who can actually revenge them if they are Scarf or have a Dragon Dance up.

    Good luck!
  9. Desmond Miles

    Desmond Miles

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Messages:
    8
  10. joshe

    joshe the best

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    796
    This is a pretty darn solid rain team and I only have a few suggestions for you to consider. I want to start with your Keldeo set. I don't really like Calm Mind Keldeo because it can't beat Psyshock Starmie, Latias, and Latios and your team doesn't exactly have a strong pursuiter who can constantly take them on or kill them. I feel you would be much better off with an a Choice Scarf Keldeo set which can help solidify some of your teams weaknesses with its revenge killing power and lategame clean up. Scarf Keldeo Hydro Pumps in rain are still pretty damn strong and secret sword still does enough to blissey of sorts. With a choice scarf you can now check Dragonite and Volcarona who can give your team quite a bit of trouble if they set up on any of your first 3 pokemon. You have some pretty nice wallbreakers in Politoed, Thundurus, and Dragonite so it shouldn't be too hard to check a few threats and clean up late game. You will also be walled by Jellicent no matter what Keldeo set you run and I would rather see you destroy it via Thundurus-t Thunder or Dragonite Outrage. Ferrothorn can still handle most Latias and Latios in rain with Gyro Ball which I do suggest using on him over Leech Seed or your 4th move. Gyro Ball is an incredibly good move and it helps you out against faster sweepers and wall breakers and gives you another move to prevent dragonite, terrakion, tornadus, and volcarona from switching in on you and setting up.

    Keldeo set (open)
    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Secret Sword
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Surf


    Moving on, I feel Thundurus-T would be better off as a Nasty Plot wallbreaker. It does change your team goals around slightly as you're forgoing late-game sweeping power for mid-game wall breaking power but I think you would very much enjoy the amount of power Thundurus-T gives when at +2 and it can still sweep with its above average base speed stat of 101. After a Nasty Plot you 2HKO Blissey and Chansey with your Life Orb Thunders in the rain and really not much can withstand that power. This also softens up walls for both Dragonite and Keldeo and gives your team some much needed power. Focus Blast is better than Grass Knot as it takes on and beats down Ferrothorn who otherwise walls you. You can also run Agility in the 4th move to make for a psuedo wall breaker sweeper if you feel you can get rid of Gastrodon and Ferrothorn before setting up.

    Thundurus-t set (open)
    Thundurus-T @ Life Orb
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast / Agility


    I also feel a Dragon Dance Dragonite would be better over your current set with the current changes that I would like you to try out. Dragon Dance Dragonite gives you another win condition and also synergizes well with both Thundurus and Keldeo; Thundurus and Dragonite blow through teams while Keldeo cleans up the mess. You have pretty good support as well with both Tentacruel rapid spin and you will always get a chance to set up a Dragon Dance and start sweeping. Celebi is usually always an easy set up for a Dragon Dance as well as pokemon that rely on using status to stop Dragonite from sweeping up thanks to your Lum Berry. Dragonite can still perform the same role that you want it to except in a different way that offers sweeping power over immediate damage. Scarf Keldeo checks Volcarona and friends which lessens the need for an immmediate power ExtremeSpeed.

    Dragonite set (open)
    Dragonite @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake / Fire Punch


    Good luck with your team :)
  11. bobhail9

    bobhail9

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    i would use keldeo to lure electric type attcks to switch to thunderus
  12. Desmond Miles

    Desmond Miles

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Up!
    New Team

    New Fix!

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