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Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by chuavechito, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. chuavechito


    May 28, 2012
    Hello Smogon. Im having quite a success with this team so I decided to share in hopes to get some improvement.​

    Team Development​

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    Everything started here. I wanted to make a Rain team to abuse dual Surf, and Surf overall. Politoed was the first and obvious choice because of Drizzle while Gastrodon was my second choice. I picked him because of his ground-type, overall good stats and access to Storm Drain, a retarded ability in Rain team next to Surf user.

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    The next adition was Parasect. While he is a very underused Poke he has access to my main combo: Rage Powder + Surf. I use Rage Powder to absorb attacks directed at my Surfers and the Surfers heal 25% of his HP. Because of this, unless he kill Parasect fast, a Rage Powder + Surf lock can win a game alone.

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    My next adition was Thundurus. With that I completed my core. I add'd him mostly because I wanted a Prankster Rain Dance. He is the best at doing so thanks to his huge SpA and access to STAB Thunder.

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    Thundurus wasnt good at all, mostly because he died quite fast to my own Surfs. I swaped him for Ludicolo because of his x4 resistance to Surf and access to Swift Swim which turned him in an excellent backup for when Politoed dies. The core of Fast Surf + Surf Abuser was crucial for success and Politoed is usually flesh meat so a back up Surfer was kind of mandatory.

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    Ludicolo's small bulk and weakness to Acrobatics + Bugs was overwhelming. Kingdra was the next choice. He can counter his own Dragon weakness by his huge speed in rain and access to STAB Dragon of his own.

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    With my core completed I started testing checks and counters. Toxicroak was the first one. He can abuse Rain, has access to Fake Out AND has access to a powerfull Fight move that could hit hard 2 of the other 3 weather inducers (Snow and Sandstorm).

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    Toxicroak mediocre bulk and his 3 weakness proved way to much for the frog. I swaped him for Hitmontop who has access to a faster and stronger Fight move while also having access to Fake Out.

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    With Intimidate Hitmontop on the tema the final adition was an obvious one. Landorus-T can provide the dual Intimidate combo that hurts Sandstorm teams a lot while also providing access to STAB Earthquake, a move that rapes Ninetales. He also has U-Turn, which is just amazing when you have 2 Inmitidate pokes and Politoed. It can put me in such a good position.

    The Team​

    Politoed is the heart of the team. Rain increases my Surfer's damage by 50% while also triggering Dry Skin's recovery and Swift Swim's speed.

    Surf is my main offensive tool and usually the only move I use. Because of this, Scarf was the obvious choice. As long as I can drop a fast Surf, everything else becomes irrelevant.

    The reason why I choosed this Scarf-Surf build is because I believe Politoed is bad at everything else. He doesnt have the bulk nor the natural speed to do anything else (or at last, not better than any other Rain abuser). Thanks to this build he can do something that helps a lot, droping a fast and strong Surf.

    The rest of the moves are situational options. HP Grass lets me do stuff vs other Rain teams, specially Gastrodon, who rapes this Surf strat. Hydro Pump is there for when I cant use Surf for some reason. HP Ice lets me hit hard Dragons and Plants for when who resist Water (Usually, I only use them when I cant use Surf for some reason).

    Gastrodon is my other standar lead and half of my core. He has a wonderful type only weak to grass (an uncommon type). He has a respetable bulk that covers the total lack of speed. However, the main reason why I play him is because of his access to Storm Drain and STAB Surf.

    My usual turn 1 is Politoed + Gastrodon, Politoed usually hit first with STAB Rain Surf, damaging both of them and and +1ing Gastrodon, then Gastrodon finish them off with STAB Rain Scep +1(Storm Drain) Surf. It is almost impossible to tank this attack.

    The rest of the moves are overall coverage for when I cant Surf. Muddy Watter is there for when I have Kingdra + Gastrodon or Politoed + Gastrodon (standar when I face another weather team).

    Earth Power is for the extra STAB so I can hit things that resist Water for at last neutral, minus Fly/Levitate Dragons and Grass, while Ice Beam hits for super effective the said Fly/Levitate Dragon or Grass.

    Parasect is the perfect support for my other 3 Rain abusers. Dry Skin and Leftovers means that I heal 44% of my HP every time I use Surf. Thanks to my bulky EVs and access to Rage Powder I can abuse the Surf-RagePowder lock.

    The lock basically means all single target attacks are directed at Parasect, so I get 1 turn of Surf no mather what. If they cant kill me I can do it again so I get 2 Surfs w/o getting my Surferd damaged at all. However, the real lock comes when they cant do more than 56% damage per turn (usually happens when they have a support and an offensive one that doesnt have a super effective move). Since I will heal 44% of my HP, as long as they cant do more than that I simply get a permanent Surf and there is nothing they can do to stop it.

    Besides this Rage Powder + Dry Skin combo, he has access to Spore, a broken move in dobles; Seed Bomb, the best way to deal with Gastrodon, and Aromatherapy, an excellent support move.

    That particular set of Spe means I will outspeed Gastrodon. This is important because it means I can always Aromatherapy before my own Gastrodon needs to attack (removing Spore or TWave miss chance) while it also means I can outspeed my opponent Gastrodon and hit him with STAB x4 super effective Grass (or simply put him to sleep).

    The final memeber of my core is Kingdra. He has a x4 resistance to Surf, so while it doesnt benefits from it, it doesnt to much against Kingdra either.

    Kingdra's main job is to use Swift Swim and Surf next to either Parasect or Gastrodon. In this aspect, he is quite simmilar to Politoed. He also has Rain Dance, which is very cool for when I face an unexpected Sunny Day, Hail or Sandstorm.

    I decided to go for Draco Meteor Dragon Gem because the combination is just sick. It gives me 2 very good offensive options. Finally, I have Ice Beam to be able to hit Grass and Dragons w/o having to lose my Gem + 2SpA in the process.

    Hitmontop is one of my two check/counter/backup. I use him whenever I have to face a weather team (other than Rain, obviously). He is particulary effective against Snow and Sand.

    Quite a standar build. Detect is needed here because of Landorus-T's Explosion. Fake out because is just imba. Mach and Close with Fight Gem to take down Aboma + TTar.

    Landorus-T is my secondary check/counter/backup. I use him next to Hitmontop when I have to face a weather team. This turn my team for a Rain Team into a Intimidate/Rain team.

    I use Choice Band because I usually only use a single move on him, depending on the situation. Banded U-Turn is quite nice because I have 2 Intimidate + Drizzle on my team, while Banded EQ can tear Sun and some Sandstorm teams apart. Rock Slide is just for general coverage while Banded Explosion won me some games so far.


    Surf Rage

    Here is an example of the Surf-Rage lock.

    Vs Sun

    Here is an example vs a Sun team.


    Here is an example vs a standar team.

    Vs Sandstorm

    Here is an example vs a Sandstorm team.

    Vs a Sun - Trick Room

    He has a mix between a Sun team and a Trick Room team. Multiple switchs fucked him up.

    Suggestions are welcome :)​
  2. tlyee61


    Sep 25, 2010
    on gastro, I might go with a bulkier spread of

    Gastrodon-Ea (Gastrodon-East) (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 100 SAtk / 136 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Scald / Muddy Water
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power
    - filler (maybe have icy wind or blizzard or something?)

    First up is the offensive set. The most obvious part of this set is that it’s made to be able to OHKO 252 HP / 4 SpD Metagross. That would be the reason behind the Special Attack boosting nature, the 100 Special Attack EVs, and Choice Specs. Of course, not all Metagross use this spread, so it’s important to be aware of the fact that it might survive. The defensives allow Gastrodon to survive both a Fighting Gem Close Combat from Adamant Hitmontop or a Dragon Gem Draco Meteor from Timid Latios (therefore handling any Dragon Gem Draco Meteor besides Modest Latios and Hydreigon in VGC 2012) with barely any HP left.

    calc: (100+ SpA Choice Specs Gastrodon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 188-224 (100.53 - 119.78%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

    (p.s. ripped this straight from Cassie's article on NuggetBridge which can be found here http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/gastrodon-for-dummies/)

    What do the EVs on Parasect help survive? I would calc them or use 196 HP / 60 Def / 252 SpD in the Smogon analysis. maybe alsogo aromatherapy < protect.

    I would try a Choice Scarf on Landorus-T to alleviate its speed. Go with 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spd alternate EV spread allows it to outspeed Aerodactyl and others in its speed tier (taken from Landorus-T VGC 2013 analysis on here.)

    Kingdra: Modest < Timid and Protect over Rain Dance.

    Politoed go with Wacan so you can actually have a chance of getting rain up. Go with Calm 252 HP / 76 SpDef / whatever else you want to tank Latios' DGem DMeteor
  3. chuavechito


    May 28, 2012
    I wont move the Scarf from Politoed. Turn 1 dual Surf with Politoed and Gastrodon is sick. I would play Scarf Land-T if I could tho. I just thing the carf in Politoed is way to important to move it to a backup poke.

    Rain Dance is half of the reason why I run Kingdra (which you would know if you actually read the thread). Modest is infenitelly better than Timid.

    I used to have Protect on Parasect but I swaped it for Aroma. I didnt use Portect a single time. They never hit Parasect unless I use Rage so there was no point on using Protect tbh.

    Also, the EVs on Parasect are there to balance Parasect's defenses. I took this idea from Smogon's singles build for him. The VGC build on him is actually for a Trick Room team which is the reason I didnt use it. I will test a SpD version tho, I dont realy know which one is better.

    I will test that set of EVs for Gastrodon but that move set ... did you even read whats the idea behind this team? Surf is pretty much mandatory in here.
  4. The Knights of Wario Land

    The Knights of Wario Land

    Jan 30, 2012
    Most of my concerns have already been addressed by tlyee already, but the one thing I would really emphasize is the necessity of Protect: in my experience, using three Choice mons really leaves you open to being overpredicted and KO'd. For that, I would suggest removing the Scarf from Politoed, bulking up the EVs a little bit, using a Sitrus Berry or Wacan Berry in place, and have Protect over Hydro Pump. Kingdra definitely needs Protect over Rain Dance, it will most likely be KO'd right before it can put up the rain again due to how it suffers in speed outside of rain.

    Also, I'm seeing a severe lack in a Fire-type move on this team: even if you run rain, having at least one fire move is essential against Scizor.
  5. tlyee61


    Sep 25, 2010
    :) anyway I think scizor could easily be nuetered by top's intimidate and a surf in rain. I second the movement of adding protect on most of your mons. Also, go 252 HP / 76 SDef calm on toed to survive dgem dmeteor from timid latios

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