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Raining Jellies and Dogs: OU Rain RMT

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by 2sly4u, May 30, 2012.

  1. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Intro:
    Hi everyone, I'm 2sly4u bringing you an OU Rain Team. This is the first team I've built in a long time since I took a long hiatus from competitive battling, so it may not be up to snuff. Hopefully you guys can help me out and propel the team to new heights.

    General Strategy:
    While it wasn't designed with them in mind, Tentacruel and Raikou are the real stars of the team. The two complement each other's play styles extremely well, and add to this team's versatility. Depending on what team my opponent is running, I can approach the match in two very different ways: I can either go for a Thunder sweep with Raikou or attempt to stall my opponent out with Tentacruel's dual status and Rain Dish. If the opponent is running Sun, Sand, or Hail, things get a bit more complicated since Politoed becomes equally (if not more) important, but the general strategy stays the same. This doesn't mean that the other members are unimportant but this team is at its best when it can get one of those two's counters removed or weakened.

    In-Depth Look:
    (Changes in Bold)
    [​IMG]
    Politoed@Choice Scarf
    Timid Nature, 252SpA/4Def/252Spe
    Hydro Pump
    Ice Beam
    Perish Song
    Focus Blast

    Show Hide
    As much as I lauded Raikou and Tentacruel, Politoed may be the most important member of the team, providing much needed rain for my two studs, Tentacruel and Raikou. I decided to use a Scarf set because I find his defensive set underwhelming and his Specs set is far too slow. Timid Nature was suggested by a multitude of raters, and the ability to function as a more traditional revenge killer thanks to the added Speed is a huge plus. Hydro Pump is STAB and hits like a truck in Rain. Ice Beam provides amazing coverage with Water moves, and lets him decimate his would-be grass type counters such as Breloom and weakened Celebi. Perish Song was suggested by Honus, Omicron, and BKC, and it lets me deal with annoying setup pokemon, especially if they're one of the last pokemon standing. Lastly, Focus Blast nails Tyranitar and Abomnasnow who come in to change the weather. Polly is really the only member who can’t be switched out. Drizzle is absolutely vital for the team, so that means the giant happy frog is here to stay.

    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel@Leftovers
    Timid Nature, 252HP/240Def/16Spe
    Substitute
    Toxic
    Scald
    Rapid Spin

    Show Hide
    Tentacruel is my Bulky Water, chosen mainly for his resistance to Fighting. I decided to go with SubToxic set since I've hardly every seen it used and my team doesn't really need Toxic Spikes anyways. Substitute is the main move on this set, and is easy to set up on a wide variety of pokemon such as Forretress, Jelicent, and opposing Tentacruel. This is especially true if I haven't revealed the set yet, since many people lob a status move at him as he sets one up. Toxic forms the other half of the SubToxic combo, which lets me slowly whittle away pokemon as I simply set up more Substitutes with little net health loss thanks to Rain Dish. Scald is the obligatory STAB move, and is useful for fishing for Burns against pokemon I can't poison. Rapid Spin rounds out the set, letting me clear away hazards (which is important, since all of my pokemon are grounded). Tentacruel has proven to be one of the most important members of my team, complementing Raikou's raw speed and power. Like the Legendary Dog, 'Cruel can easily take out entire teams once his counters are weakened but does so deliberately and slowly instead of in a few turns. This is especially true when I can hide his set until mid to late game; most people automatically assume he's a standard TSpiker, and one opening is all he needs to start a deadly Substitute/Toxic chain.

    [​IMG]
    Raikou@Choice Specs
    Timid Nature, 252SpA/4SpD/252Spe
    Thunder
    Volt Switch
    Shadow Ball
    HP Grass

    Show Hide
    Raikou is my main sweeper and late-game cleaner, easily tearing through most of the metagame with his insanely powerful Thunder. With Choice Specs, almost nothing can safely take a 120 BP STAB move coming off a beastly 120 Special Attack. Volt Switch complements Thunder well, letting me wear down Raikou's non-Ground type checks while keeping momentum on my side. Shadow Ball mostly gets a slot by default thanks to Raikou's horrible movepool since I don't want to sacrifice max Speed for Aura Sphere. HP Grass provides coverage against a multitude of pokemon immune to Thunder and makes getting past walls such as Gastrodon much easier, paving my way to a late-game sweep. I also like to lead with Raikou since if he has a poor matchup, he can always Volt Switch out with his good Speed.

    Since comparisons are inevitable, I've decided to explain why I've chosen Raikou over the generally superior Jolteon. The main reason was for added bulk; in an ideal world, I'd never need to switch in one of my main sweepers into an incoming attack. Unfortunately, this isn't an ideal world and Raikou's extra bulk is notable, especially on the physical side. Secondly, I felt Jolteon's two main advantages over Raikou (Volt Absorb and 130 Base Speed) weren't overly helpful for my team. Ferrothorn can tank Electric moves all day and doesn't mind Thunder Wave, while Raikou already outspeeds most of the threats I wanted to cover, most notably Terrakion. The slight edge in power helps too; he can OHKO standard Rotom-W with Thunder after Stealth Rocks.

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn@Leftovers
    Careful Nature, 252HP/88Def/168SpD
    Stealth Rock
    Power Whip
    Bulldoze
    Leech Seed

    Show Hide
    Ferrothorn is my defensive pivot and hazard setter and he does the jobs well. I needed a mixed wall, and Ferro’s bulk, especially in rain, was too good to pass up. I won't go too in depth on the set since everyone's seen it a thousand times. Stealth Rocks are entry hazards which are important for Raikou's sweep, Power Whip is STAB and packs quite a punch, even with no EVs. Bulldoze was suggested by BKC, and replaces the unnecessary Thunder Wave while letting me surprise Magnezones and Heatrans on the switch. Leech seed provides some extra residual damage and is my only form of active recovery on the team. Ferrothorn is important because he's the only truly bulky pokemon besides Tentacruel on my team, and I prefer to keep the latter tucked away until later in the match. Nothing else on my team likes taking a hit (though most of them can in a pinch), which means I count on him to take a lot of punishment.

    [​IMG]
    Alakazam@Focus Sash
    Timid Nature, 252SpA/4SpD/252Spe
    Psyshock
    Shadow Ball
    HP Ice
    Focus Blast

    Show Hide
    Sash 'Zam was recently featured in the Smog, but I've been playing around with him for awhile. The benefits of this set are obvious: thanks to Magic Guard, Alakazam can always survive at least one hit. This essentially lets him act as a catch-all for my team. Be it a pokemon who managed to set up some boosts or a surprise Choice Scarf user, Alakazam does a great job at eliminating one key threat every game. As for the moves, I picked Psyshock since the rest of my team is mainly Specially-based, so I wanted some extra power on the physical side. Shadow Ball and Focus Blast have perfect neutral coverage together and do a good job of nailing 'Zam's counters, mainly Ghost and Dark types. HP Ice replaces Energy Ball at Omicron's suggestion, as with a Sash and Alakazam's monstrous Special Attack it lets me defeat threats I had trouble with before, such as Gliscor and Landorus.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor@Choice Band
    Adamant Nature, 244HP/252Att/8Spe
    Bullet Punch
    U-Turn
    Superpower
    Quick Attack

    Show Hide
    Scizor is my main physical attacker and also revenge kills along with Politoed and Alakazam. He also forms a decent VolTurn core with Raikou, though admittedly it’s not as good as ScRotom. Again, this set is pretty much the standard so I’m not really going to go into it. Superpower was chosen over Brick Break for the extra power, and Quick Attack (Thanks T.P.D.B) is mostly filler, but has more utility than Pursuit and lets me revenge pokemon who resist Bullet Punch. Scizor helps the team by answering the bell when my opponent has a pokemon faster than everything else on my team, such as +1 Salamence or Scarf Terrakion. Because my only Scarfed pokemon is still pretty slow, this can happen frequently. Luckily, Scizor’s Steel typing and HP investment means he can tank a few hits and retaliate, often saving me the match.

    Conclusion:
    That's my team! I hope you all found it interesting. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the help in advance!
  2. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    Nice looking team but a few things I would change. I would recommend adding a Rain Dragonite. Perfect accuracy on Hurricane and Thunder is amazing. Also, I would switch Alakazam to Gengar. They are similar but the one major difference is that Gengar can learn Thunder while Alakazam can not.
  3. labarith

    labarith

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    Raikou should really be the event one. In particular Aura Sphere sounds like it'd be a good thing to have. Weather Ball, oddly, also seems like it would go well with choice band as a lv 100 boosted water (or fire) move would be pretty nice. Shadow Ball is easy to ditch for one of those preferable moves, I would think.

    Gengar also Spinblocks.

    Consider toxic spikes on tentacruel.

    And you need a phaser.
  4. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    I wrote a rate for your team but it got deleted. I will edit this to go into detail but for now give you the changes in short.

    Changes:
    - Change Pursuit to Quick Attack on Scizor
    Alright, so your team isn't really bothered by the presence of ghost and psychic types. The Base 110 tiers filled with all the Pokemon the Pokemon weak to Pursuit (Latios, Gengar, Espeon, etc) are outsped by every other Pokemon on your team. Quick attack will provide you extra insurance against sweepers that resist Bullet Punch. Contrary to what labraith says, Bullet Punch in certain situations is weaker than quick attack, Volcarona and Gyarados are the key Pokemon you want Quick Attack for.
    - Take Thunderwave off of Ferrothorn for Protect
    As mentioned before your team is already pretty fast, so it doesn't really benefit from Paralysis support as much as other teams. Ferrothorn is the main defensive centerpiece of your team and you want him to stick around. Protect does just that (as well as mess with Volt-Turn teams which is partly why I use it).
    - Note your Choice Scarf Landorus weakness. Your recommendations will be based on this question: do you want to keep rapid spin support?
    Now what I was going to say to you was if you still needed spin support, replace Tentacruel with Donphan (for Ice Shard) or Starmie. However, since you don't it gives me a little more freedom with my suggestion. Now you need a solid fighting resist that can also take ground attacks. Choice Scarf Landorus is the one to worry about since all of your other guys outspeed it. That why I am going to recommend Slowbro for your team. Slowbro can easily take on the fighting and ground types that give your trouble, as well as give you a secondary dragon check. Slowbro is one of the few Pokemon that can compete with a volt-turn team's (where CS landorus is found) of momemntum with Regnerator, he won't get worn down by SR anytime soon.

    Slowbro (Slowbro) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    - Slack Off
    Edit: Add stuff in bold
  5. VN.

    VN. h a d r i a n +
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    yo cool team I really like how Raikou and Alakazam can go at each other's counters and break stall and stuff and SubToxic Tentacruel is a fantastic set. Anyways I really think you ought to run a more defensive Ferrothorn set, considering how easy it is to lure in and hit. Landorus is able to lure it in quite a bit and generally whittle its health down with Earthquke, the same goes for CB Dragonite with its Outrage that does 37.22% - 43.75%, which can really add up and given that you can't OHKO Dragonite, it has the potential to beat you after hitting you with only one Outrage. I also think you should run Protect over Thunder Wave and Gyro Ball over Power Whip. Gyro Ball allows you to hit Dragons a lot harder and even nail Pokemon that resist it pretty hard, such as Lucario, plus it doesn't render Ferrothorn completely ineffective against a Grass Type, such as Virizion, which also takes a ton from Gyro Ball. Since this is a generally fast team, I don't think it's mandatory that you try and spread paralysis, as you are able to outspeed most threats anyways, and Ferrothorn would really appreciate the extra Leech Seed recovery, it seems, since it's your main wall. Finally, I think you could try either Encore or Perish Song on Politoed over Hidden Power Grass. Gastrodon really isn't a big problem for this team since you have 2 other Pokemon to lure it, not to mention Alakazam is excellent in that regard and it's kind of understood now to watch out for HP Grass Politoed, but not so much with Raikou or Energy Ball Alakazam. Perish Song and Encore can potentially help with setup sweepers that you would have a hard time taking down otherwise, or with Smashpass/Baton Pass, which can obviously prove to be annoying if you don't play against them right.

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Gyro Ball
    - Stealth Rock


    Change Summary:

    Politoed:
    Hidden Power Grass-> Perish Song/Encore
  6. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

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    Thanks to everyone for the rates!

    @Pokemasta: While Rain Dragonite is a pretty awesome pokemon, I don't really know who he'd replace. I suppose I can test him out over 'Zam. As for Gengar, I don't really see what he brings to the table over who I currently have. I'm only running one kind of entry hazard so I don't need a SpinBlocker, and Alakazam has multiple advantages over Gengar such as higher Speed and Magic Guard. Thunder is a nice move, but I don't need two abusers of it.

    @Labarith: Why would the event Raikou be better? There's no denying Aura Sphere is epic, but it comes at the cost of a +Speed nature, meaning I get outsped by most of the metagame. I've actually considered TSpikes on Tentacruel, but I prefer Toxic because it lets me control what I Poison and isn't neutered if the opponent carries a Poison type. I also don't really see the need for a phazer; I don't have too many problems with setup pokemon and I don't use enough hazards to make it worthwhile.

    @P.D.B.: Sorry it got deleted! Since the Thunder Wave change was seconded, I did that and also gave Scizor Quick Attack. As for your question, Rapid Spin support is very nice but I'd be willing to switch it out if it helps the team in the long run. What did you have in mind?

    @Karpman: I'm glad you liked the team. I'll try out Gyro Ball over Power Whip and let you know. I'm also playing around with Ferro's EVs to see how much Defense I need. Perish song is an interesting option. I'll be sure to try it out!
  7. bluemon

    bluemon

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    i think you are really weak against landorus.

    scarf outspeeds the whole team and i think half re Ohkoed under sandstorm, and band is even worse as only politoed and scizor can revenge and none can take a hit.
  8. Haineskid712

    Haineskid712

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    Only thing I have against that, is having TOO many rain abusers can be a bad thing. If you lose the weather war, you then have to rely on non-accurate moves. Which can hurt you.
  9. labarith

    labarith

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    He already has mach punch, which is better.

    Good point on Raikou. For some reason I was thinking Rash boosted speed.

    Toxic Spikes is, I think, preferable because when it works, it works. You've already got some hazards - I wouldl think going the extra mile w/ a phaser would give you more options.

    How, exactly, do you deal with setup pokemon? I don't see anything that can hit around a substitute is all I'm saying.
  10. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

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    In general, opponents have issues setting up Substitutes against my team, since most of them are fast and powerful; even Tentacruel's Scald can usually do 25% in the Rain.. The only one who my opponents can get Subs up on is Ferrothorn, and that's just something you need to deal with if you want to use him. In the event that my opponent does manage to set up, Alakazam can reliably break Substitutes or revenge at the cost of his Sash, while Scizor's Bullet Punch can do the same. If something gets a Sub up AND sets up, then I can sacrifice one to break the sub and revenge with the other. However, as I said before, it's almost never a problem.
  11. labarith

    labarith

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    Maybe it's because I'm in a BPing EV training phase now which is why I'm fixating on it. I know there aren't that many setup teams anymore, but I've tried running a few setuppers like sub/roost/dd/dc Dragonite and even bp/sub/encore/tail glow volbeat recently... and quite frankly 2HKO moves just aren't enough.

    I think good playing on your part with focus sash and priority moves help you out. It's also, apparently, not that big in the metagame, so you don't really need to worry about it. But if you're making changes to get a good spinblocker on the team anyways, it might be worth a try to work someone in with Roar or even priority status giving?
  12. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    I updated my rate. Anyway, why would he want a spinblocker with only one hazard to abuse. It puts him in a very limited position if a ghost replaces an offensive team mate.
  13. AeroNightmare

    AeroNightmare

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    You're a tad weak to sun teams without some one spamming earthquakes on you're team its just gonna be a bad time for you whenever you're up againt Ninetails or tyranitar for that matter.

    Would you consider taking out scizor for something less predictable? Maybe try scarf mamoswine. He gets priority and hits hard with ground and ice, something the rest of your team can't do. Also his weaknesses, though abundant, are covered by the rest of your team nicely. Just a thought.
  14. Omicron

    Omicron
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    While I understand that Raikou is part of the core of this team, I think you may want to rethink its role. Although it is quite powerful, your team on the whole is relatively weak to well-built sandstorm teams, as you have nothing that can take powerful Earthquakes from the likes of Landorus and Gliscor. In order to solve this problem, I suggest that you replace Raikou with Rotom-W, which not only provides you with a Ground immunity, but also another rain abuser that can use both a STAB Hydro Pump and STAB Thunder. Although not quite as powerful, Rotom-W can deal out some serious hurt with a rain-boosted Hydro Pump. Even though Rotom-W adds another Grass-type weakness to your team, Ferrothorn / Scizor already take care of that issue. I'm going to suggest the Choice Specs variant, as your team already has a Choice Scarf user in the form of Politoed. If that isn't to your liking, the ChestoRest variant is extremely useful and increasingly common.

    Another small change I would make is replacing Energy Ball with Hidden Power Ice on Alakazam. This allows Alakazam to revenge Dragon-types such as Dragonite (assuming Multiscale is broken), Salamence, and more, thanks to the Focus Sash. Gastrodon isn't very common nowadays, and you already have Ferrothorn and Hidden Power Grass on Politoed to deal with it. It can't really do much damage to your team in general anyway.

    I'm also going to second Karpman's suggestion of trying out Perish Song on Politoed over Hidden Power Grass, as Gastrodon hardly bothers this team, as I mentioned before.

    Anyways, here's a summary of suggested changes and good luck with the team!

    Sets (open)

    Rotom-W @ Choice Specs / Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid / Modest Nature (+Spd, -Atk) / (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power Ice / Fire / Will-O-Wisp
    - Trick / Rest


    Moveset Changes (open)

    Energy Ball ==> Hidden Power Ice on Alakazam
    Hidden Power Grass ==> Perish Song on Politoed
  15. BKC

    BKC
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    Very nice team, I like it a lot. There are a few things I think could be changed to make it function better. First off, running bulldoze over thunder wave on ferrothorn in order to beat magnezone would be extremely helpful. Under rain, ferro can tank several hp fires from zone, but can't do anything back; with bulldoze, you can two-shot it. This will be very helpful against dragmag teams which rely on zone to kill steels such as ferro.

    While we're on the subject of ferrothorn, this team would be a lot more deadly if you used spikes on it. Spikes help wear down opposing weather inducers, who are all grounded, and it makes scizor + raikou's volturning absolute hell for your opponent, since they will get worn down extremely fast with the extra residual damage from multiple hazards. Losing leech seed sucks, but I think spikes are more useful for the reasons mentioned.

    If you add spikes to ferro, try gengar over alakazam. Zam is great, but gar's ability to block rapid spin and its immunity to ground attacks [which are problematic, as outlined by omicron] make me think that it's better for this team. The standard sub + disable / pain split set should be fine.

    Also, it would be beneficial to run choice scarf on scizor. You rely on it to check a bunch of special threats [lati twins and celebi, to name a few] but it relies on uturn to do so; if it's not at high health, you'll be outsped and killed before you can hit them. With the speed from scarf, you can get uturn off safely. This will land you many surprise kills against these fast special attackers. Scarf zor will also help against hail teams with mix abomasnow, who is designed to kill standard cb sciz. Aboma won't always fall for the politoed focus blast bait, so another way to kill it is advisable. With protect, aboma scouts scizor's move. If it sees bullet punch, it switches; if it sees uturn, it stays in and tries to hp fire. You outspeed and ohko, thus winning the weather war, unless you have for some reason let politoed die already.

    Last thing, try timid politoed. It lets you outspeed several threats such as dugtrio, alakazam, boosted dd dragonite/gyarados, and scarf ttar. Also, I second karpman's suggestion of perish song/encore > hp grass, for the reasons he mentioned.
    tl;dr (open)

    - Ditch ferrothorn's thunder wave and leech seed for spikes and bulldoze
    - Ditch alakazam for gengar
    - Ditch scizor's band for a scarf
    - Ditch politoed's modest nature for timid, with perish song/encore over hp grass


    Nice team, hope this helped.
  16. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

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    Thanks to everyone for all of the rates! As soon as I get back to my computer, I'll be sure to test all of them out. Choice Scarf Scizor and HP Ice on 'Zam all sound like excellent ideas. I'll be sure to update the main post and let you all know.
  17. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

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    I've tested everyone's suggestions and have settled on what I like. I'm bumping so those who reviewed can see what changes I made (if they care). Rotom-W was extremely useful against Sand, but I found I missed Raikou's raw power too much against other teams. Adding HP Ice to Alakazam has helped too, so I can generally defeat Sand and ScarfDorus with some smart play. Extra Speed on Politoed has been helpful as well, and I'm sure Perish Song will begin working out for me once I've practiced using it a bit more. I also liked Spikes on Ferrothorn. When I could get them up, the match was almost certainly over. However, I found that without Leech Seed he tended to die too often, and since he's my only true defensive pivot that meant I had too much trouble getting pokemon in safely. Again, thanks to everyone who helped me out!
  18. jle1076

    jle1076

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    And Gengar isnt an offensive pokemon? lol


    Gengar @ Black Sludge
    Timid- 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Sp
    Moves:
    -Sub
    -Pain Split/Disable
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast

    This guy ruins teams simply put. Come in on a Fighting/Normal and Sub Up. Either Pain Split em or go for damage or SPin Block, your choice. Also, you can just have a straight up Special Sweeper with same EVs just use Focus Sash/Life Orb with Shadow Ball/Thunder/Focus Blast/HP Fire in case weather gets broken or Energy Ball for ground/Water walls like Gastrodon and Swampert.
  19. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    To make it more clear, he is limiting to himself to only Ghosts type which there happen to be only 2 in OU. When I say offensive teammates I mean the trio of Raikou, Alakazahm, and Scizor. The point is he doesn't need a spinblocker with just stealth rock. Why replace one of his special attackers with Gengar if they are both faster and stronger than him. Black Sludge/Lefties Gengar is weak and it doesn't provide any utility or beat any targets his team is after.
  20. infinitetown

    infinitetown

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    Hello, cool team. I agree which people about replacing alakazam. you got 2 pokemon that is weak to grond and you have no flying/levitate/ground-resist pokemon. Zam should be changed into mixed rain dragonite, tornadus or gengar. rotom-w works well too, cuz it's scizor's partner in crime.
  21. Garud

    Garud

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    Yeah, keep Alakazam in this team, Gengar wouldn't provide you with any use that Alakazam doesn't already cover. In addition, Gengar is more frail and doesn't like Stealth Rock or status, while you can still use Alakazam as a status absorber (not T-wave though). You don't need a spinblocker, keep your team as-is, because it looks hard to improve on.
  22. Metaphor

    Metaphor

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    Amazing Team

    I've been running this set and it works wonders. When leading with Raikou, it's only real threat is a Dugtrio but there are 5 other pokes to take it on aha. The Sash Zam with Psyshock is ingenious. Always guaranteed a kill or two. I've played 15 matches and havent lost one and I just started wifi battling 2 matches before. Great team synergy is what make this set amazing.

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