Rate my OU team. Or don't. Your choice.

[Scrawly]

UPDATES IN RED. I'm more of less settled with the whole accuracy issue. I would like, however, require help with a few changes. Firstly, shall I overhaul the mixape and make it a dedicated physical sweeper? I enjoy the laughs it gets by OHKOing most attempted counter Gyrados' with a boosted grassknot, but apparently, a physical sweeper with Mach punch would be more useful.
Secondly, Gengar. Overhaul required?

Hi folks. I'm fairly new to fourth generation battling though had some experience on Netbattle.
A fews weeks ago I made up a shiny new team, headed down to the Smogon server and was slightly surprised that it wasn't actually that bad.
After some alterations, the team reached a stage where I needed the opinion of some more practised battlers. Enjoy.

Oliver

MAMOSWINE, male
ADAMANT nature
EVs: 4HP, 252 ATK, 252 SPD
Item: LIFE ORB
Ability: SNOW CLOAK

• Earthquake
• Stone Edge
• Ice Shard
• Stealth Rock

I wuv Mamoswine leads. They can deal with most suicide leads, set up stealth rock, and make it out with their lives. This baby is one of my favourites.
My one big issue is with Stone Edge/Rock Slide. Back in third generation, accuracy was paramount. Flamethrower was taken over Fire Blast, Thunder over Tunderbolt. Now, every moveset and their dog is reccomending stone edge, fire blast, hydro pump... Why? What changed while I was gone?

Polly

SNORLAX, female
ADAMANT nature
EVs: 4HP, 252 ATK, 252 SPDEF
Item: CHOICE BAND
Ability: THICK FAT

• Earthquake
• Body Slam
• Crunch
• Self Destruct

Most people expect Snorlax to be bulky, tanky, requiring set up. Choice Band gives massive power, right off the bat. Sweet. An immunity to ghost, and massive special defence, and thick fat, gives a lot of neat switch ins.
Self Destruct is on the list because I like explosions.
Note: Probably a weak link. Never does much of note except scare ghosts away with crunch. If anyone has a suggestion for a replacement, I'm all ears.
Gary

GENGAR, male
NAIIVE nature
EVs: 4HP, 252 SPATK, 252 SPD
Item: CHOICE SPECS
Ability: LEVITATE

• Shadow Ball
• Thunderbolt
• Focus Blast
• Explosion

A bunch of immunities, a lot of power and a lot of speed. Self explanatory. Gengar covers many of my teams weaknesses with an immunity to ground and one to fighting. Works well with 'Lax. Explosion is there cos I just can't help myself. It's a rather fun way of dealing with Blisssey's, or anything that's really bugging me.

Elle

JOLTEON, female
TIMID nature
EVs: 4HP, 252 SPATK, 252 SPD
Item: CHOICE SPECS
Ability: VOLT ABSORB

• Thunderbolt
• Shadow Ball
• Hidden Power (Ice)
• Signal Beam/Baton Pass

Maaaaassive speed, massive power and an immunity. Suh-weet! Thunder Wave is a neat gimmick which is the only thing this guy can do to Blissey and friends. If anyone can suggest anything more important than Thunder Wave, however, please do.

Ryan

INFERNAPE, male
NAIIVE nature
EVs: 64 ATK, 252 SPATK, 192 SPD
Item: LIFE ORB
Ability: BLAZE

• Fire Blast
• Grass Know
• Close Combat
• Nasty Plot

Excellent wall breaker, and yet another thing that annoys Blissey and her kin. Switch in, nasty plot of the switch, kill whatever comes out with a boosted special attack, and close combat if the the special wall is cheeky enough to return. Swell. A common attempted counter is Gyrados which I can easily deal with after a nasty plot. The mixape has a nice does of the element of surprise.

Quentin

STARMIE, male
TIMID nature
EVs: 136 HP, 156 DEF, 216 SPD
Item: LEFTOVERS
Ability: NATURAL CURE

• Surf
• Grass Knot
• Rapid Spin
• Recover

With a team like mine, a rapid spinner is nessersary. I intended this guy to a throwaway scapegoat designed to spin, and then to die. But, he's rather better than that, able to scout for statas affecting moves and then heal, out stall many tanks and survive a surprising amount of hits. Psychich is useful against ghostly anti spinners, but hidden power (grass) plugs my Swampert anti-lead weakness. I can't pick.

Summary and Conclusion

My team is choice item heavy, hits hard and switches frequently. As such, focus has been placed on Pokemon with immunities or safe switch ins.
Mamoswine is quite efficient at dealing with most leads, Snorlax works in tandem with Gengar who gets a switch in from the weaknesses of Snorlax, Jolteon and Infernape, who all hit hard and fast. Starmie, who I once believed to be a weak link, has proven to be invaluable.

I've battled with this team quite a bit recently, and have had quite some success. I now wish some more experience eyes to spot any crippling flaws or crucial improvements.

Much obliged.

 

[Hood Dream]

May i ask what do you do when lucario get +1 SD?

 

[Scrawly]

This is probably a typo, but change Joteons nature to timid ;)

Duly noted.

May i ask what do you do when lucario get +1 SD?

Swords Dance? If by some miracle it's without extremespeed I'm home free as all of my light sweepers outspeed it, but if it has got it, I'm forced to send out Gengar on a suicide mission.
Boom.

 

[cmurph]

I think Gengar's explosion right now might be too weak. At least change the nature to Naive or Hasty and put the 4 left over evs into attack

 

[VKCA]

Duly noted.



Swords Dance? If by some miracle it's without extremespeed I'm home free as all of my light sweepers outspeed it, but if it has got it, I'm forced to send out Gengar on a suicide mission.
Boom.

Thunderbolt would do more than explosion would to a lucario, also
You should definitely change gengars nature to naive with the extra 4 evs in attack, to get the most bang for your buck.

 

[ShadowMaster8]

Let's start with Mamoswine:

MAMOSWINE @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
EVs: 4 HP / 252 ATK / 252 SPD
Ability: Snow Cloak

Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Stone Edge
Ice Shard

This is my lead. It's a great Pokemon, and with great Base Stats it can really put a dent in almost any lead. Now, to your question about the Power vs. Accuracy ordeal, it as simple as this: it all comes down to personal preference. As with any lead or anti-lead, you want to hit hard. Personally, I would go with Stone Edge to secure a OHKO if the move hits. If you want to sacrifice the 25 power for a sure shot, go ahead. It's all personal preference.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next will be your Snorlax.

SNORLAX @ Macho Brace
Adamant Nature
EVs: 176 HP / 252 ATK / 176 SpD
Ability: Thick Fat

Double-Edge
Self-Destruct
Earthquake
Substitute

With Snorlax, I went with more of a suisidal approach, especially with adding Substitute and Double-Edge. When packing more HP EVs, you can risk the Double-Edge to hit hard, and the Macho Brace adds even more punch, as it increases attack. Substitute helps avoid taking damage, but you take damage from creating the sub in the first place (It's very ironic.) As being what looks like the only Physical attacker on your team, it's important to keep Snorlax alive, but when all else fails, Self-Destruct is there to make things happen! Hahaha.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I won't change your Gengar or Jolteon, because I think that you have good stuff there, but there is one thing. Change HP Ice to HP Grass. Trust me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

INFERNAPE @ Life Orb
Naive Nature
EVs: 252 ATK / 64 SpA / 192 SPD
Ability: Blaze

Flamethrower
Close Combat
Fire Punch
Swords Dance

You don't need 3 Sp. Sweepers. You needed another Phys. attacker and that is what I gave you by switching EVs around a throwing in a few new attacks, you're ready for anything! Predict a switch, use Swords Dance and BOOM! OHKO and anything, even TTAR. This Pokemon would also make a great anti-lead. There's also a Flamethrower in there in case of some Phys. Wall thinks it can come out alive. Besides that, there's not much else to readjust.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since your team has no glaring Stealth Rock Weakness, another good wall should be in order. Here's a good one for ya!

Blastoise @ King's Rock
Adamant Nature
EVs: 4 HP / 252 ATK / 126 DEF / 126 SpD
Ability: Torrent

Waterfall
Counter
Mirror Coat
Roar

Now this is what I call unexpected! It's not very common in OU, because it's from UU. IT can hit hard as the oppurtuniy arises, and with the right predictions, in can use Counter and Mirror Coat very effectively. My Blastoise is also the perfect, never-fail Jirachi counter, as it is hold a King's Rock which counters the flinching of its ever-annoying Iron Head/Serene Grace combo. It works great, believe me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

And there you go, my opinions, at a glance.

 

[Dark Talon]

Let's start with Mamoswine:

Next will be your Snorlax.

SNORLAX @ Macho Brace
Adamant Nature
EVs: 176 HP / 252 ATK / 176 SpD
Ability: Thick Fat

Double-Edge
Self-Destruct
Earthquake
Substitute



I won't change your Gengar or Jolteon, because I think that you have good stuff there, but there is one thing. Change HP Ice to HP Grass. Trust me.



INFERNAPE @ Life Orb
Naive Nature
EVs: 252 ATK / 64 SpA / 192 SPD
Ability: Blaze

Flamethrower
Close Combat
Fire Punch
Swords Dance

You don't need 3 Sp. Sweepers. You needed another Phys. attacker and that is what I gave you by switching EVs around a throwing in a few new attacks, you're ready for anything! Predict a switch, use Swords Dance and BOOM! OHKO and anything, even TTAR. This Pokemon would also make a great anti-lead. There's also a Flamethrower in there in case of some Phys. Wall thinks it can come out alive. Besides that, there's not much else to readjust.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since your team has no glaring Stealth Rock Weakness, another good wall should be in order. Here's a good one for ya!

Blastoise @ King's Rock
Adamant Nature
EVs: 4 HP / 252 ATK / 126 DEF / 126 SpD
Ability: Torrent

Waterfall
Counter
Mirror Coat
Roar

Now this is what I call unexpected! It's not very common in OU, because it's from UU. IT can hit hard as the oppurtuniy arises, and with the right predictions, in can use Counter and Mirror Coat very effectively. My Blastoise is also the perfect, never-fail Jirachi counter, as it is hold a King's Rock which counters the flinching of its ever-annoying Iron Head/Serene Grace combo. It works great, believe me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

And there you go, my opinions, at a glance.

May I ask why:

1. You are giving Snorlax Macho Brace and then Substitute with no Leftovers recovery (why Substitute in the first place).
2. What the hell did you do to his Infernape? Mixape is not a special sweeper, it's a Mixed sweeper, able to deal damage on both side of the spectrums. Fire Punch is not only redundant next to Flamethrower, but it hits Skarmory etc a lot weaker than a Special Fire Attack would.
3. That Blastoise set is terrible. Kings Rock does not prevent flinching, it allows the user to flinch the opponent even without a flinching move. Even if it hypothetically were a viable OU set, why put any EVs in attack at all if the main purpose is for it to take out and Counter/MC hits?

I'm sorry, but that is all terrible advice.

Edit: Mamoswine should be running Stone Edge over Rock Slide. Stone Edge is usually considered superior to Rock Slide due to much greater power and the increased crit hit ratio for only 10% less accuracy. If you are still undecided, perhaps you should take a look at this thread, then decide for yourself.

Gengar should run Focus Blast in order to OHKO Tyranitar. Jolteon should run Baton Pass over Thunder Wave. It functions as a non-damaging U-Turn and allows you to scout for Jolteon's counters. Locking yourself into Thunder Wave is not something I would recommend doing.

CB Scizor could also be a problem, being able to just U-turn away, getting supereffective hits on Starmie, and severely hurting everything else, and then coming back later and Bullet Punching several of your Pokemon.

You do have a bit of a DDGyara problem, especially if it either a. has a Wacan Berry or b. switches in on a Banded EQ and gets a DD (if it gets a DD, you have nothing that can stop it). If you would like something to stop Lucario and Gyarados, a Celebi would work. If you want Scizor and Lucario and (to an extent) Gyarados, then Zapdos would probably be your best bet.

Defensive Zapdos (the first set on the Zapdos analysis page) would suit your team very well, covering up several of the holes that exist.

I'm not a very experienced Snorlax user, so I'm not going to be able to tell you one way or another what to do with it. I would, however, recommend that you get rid of the Choice Specs on Gengar, seeing as it and Jolteon do basically the same thing on your team in terms of offense. If you want to keep Gengar, there are plenty of other sets you can run.

 

[BalancedPower]

The first problem I saw was...
3 Specials
2 Physical
1 Mixed (Though mostly special, you get screwed on physical with anything that resists CC)

Might I suggest dropping Nasty Plot and going to a mixed with no Nasty Plot, run Thunderpunch or Stone Edge in its place?

Also with Metagross and Swampert both running around, Mamoswine can get outsped or outprioritied and killed with ease. And after Mamoswine your team has only Jolteon to provide anti-Dragon support. But if Salamence switchs into MixApe or whatever and gets off a DD, you are screwed. As it should outspeed most everything you have. Flygon can also probably do a number on you. I would suggest maybe running an Ice Beam on Starmie in favor of Recover (And please run 252 speed on Starmie, that set is really outdated, and doesnt work as well, I have personal experience on this set in particular and the massive change I saw after I switched.)
The guy above me also offers some pretty good advice.

 

[EvilWeavile]

Well im not an expert at team rating but i think i can help here.

Well i see nothing wrong with Mamoswine,its a great lead with some usefull typing even with all the weaknesses. Nothing wrong with snorlax either.

Secondly, On Gengar take Focus blast over Hidden power Fighting. it has shaky acuracy but a lot more power and can deal with a lot more things weak to fighting. Also Shadow ball+thunderbolt is redundant coverage when paired up with specs jolteon, i recomend replacing one of those (if you hate to part with explosion) with Hidden power Fire. HP fire deals with scizor, the most used pokemon in the game also giving you great coverage. Also it gives you an alternative to deal with Lucario (other then going boom), otherwise without infernape a +1 lucario could sweep through your team.

Now to Jolteon.Firstly replace T-Wave with either Baton pass or Signal beam. You stated that T-wave was a gimmick whitch is true and can be replaced with signal beam for better coverage or baton pass to give you the dry passing strategy when you predict an electric move. Also many people will tell you to replace HP grass with HP ice, dont listen i use jolteon on almost all my teams and although its ushually said that HP grass is better, it will be come a wasted slot as a senario against swampert that would let you use HP grass is unlikly. Also HP ice and thunderbolt give you the famous BoltBeam combo hitting everything except magnezone and lanturn for at least nuetral damage.

On infernape replace flamethower with Fire blast, i can tell your acuracy conscience but its worth it.

Starmie looks good but HP grass over psychic to have yourself a swampert counter

Well team looks decent, good luck!

 

[Dark Talon]

Well im not an expert at team rating but i think i can help here.

Well i see nothing wrong with Mamoswine,its a great lead with some usefull typing even with all the weaknesses. Nothing wrong with snorlax either.

Secondly, On Gengar take Focus blast over Hidden power Fighting. it has shaky acuracy but a lot more power and can deal with a lot more things weak to fighting. Also Shadow ball+thunderbolt is redundant coverage when paired up with specs jolteon, i recomend replacing one of those (if you hate to part with explosion) with Hidden power Fire. HP fire deals with scizor, the most used pokemon in the game also giving you great coverage. Also it gives you an alternative to deal with Lucario (other then going boom), otherwise without infernape a +1 lucario could sweep through your team.

Don't replace thunderbolt on Gengar, not unless you are changing it to something with substitute that can actually stand up to Scizor. Otherwise, bullet punch/pursuit will get you every time.

Now to Jolteon.Firstly replace T-Wave with either Baton pass or Signal beam. You stated that T-wave was a gimmick whitch is true and can be replaced with signal beam for better coverage or baton pass to give you the dry passing strategy when you predict an electric move. Also many people will tell you to replace HP grass with HP ice, dont listen i use jolteon on almost all my teams and although its ushually said that HP grass is better, it will be come a wasted slot as a senario against swampert that would let you use HP grass is unlikly. Also HP ice and thunderbolt give you the famous BoltBeam combo hitting everything except magnezone and lanturn for at least nuetral damage.

I don't understand the bolded part; are you telling him to use HP Grass or HP Ice? Regardless, your team seems to be able to deal with Swampert if you give Starmie Grass Knot (NOT HP Grass), so Hidden Power Ice will allow you to revenge kill some Salamence (without a DD)

On infernape replace flamethower with Fire blast, i can tell your acuracy conscience but its worth it.

Starmie looks good but HP grass over psychic to have yourself a swampert counter

Well team looks decent, good luck!

You do know that Starmie can learn Grass Knot, right?

 

[EvilWeavile]

Don't replace thunderbolt on Gengar, not unless you are changing it to something with substitute that can actually stand up to Scizor. Otherwise, bullet punch/pursuit will get you every time.


I don't understand the bolded part; are you telling him to use HP Grass or HP Ice? Regardless, your team seems to be able to deal with Swampert if you give Starmie Grass Knot (NOT HP Grass), so Hidden Power Ice will allow you to revenge kill some Salamence (without a DD)



You do know that Starmie can learn Grass Knot, right?

Well first off with 72 Def EV's gengar always survives one CB scizor bullet punch. and if it uses pursuit gengar is faster and uses HP fire.

I ment to tell him to use HP ice, even though almost everyone says go with HP grass. Even so Jolteons thunderbolt can OHKO most dragons anyway making it a perfect dragon killer.

Sorry, i wasnt aware that starmie learned Grass Knot sorry.

 

[Mailman]

I'm agreeing with the person that said to change Infernape to a swords dance variant but give it Mach Punch that way you can OHKO Lucario as an attempt to stop it's sweep.

 

[Scrawly]

CB Scizor could also be a problem, being able to just U-turn away, getting supereffective hits on Starmie, and severely hurting everything else, and then coming back later and Bullet Punching several of your Pokemon.

You do have a bit of a DDGyara problem, especially if it either a. has a Wacan Berry or b. switches in on a Banded EQ and gets a DD (if it gets a DD, you have nothing that can stop it). If you would like something to stop Lucario and Gyarados, a Celebi would work. If you want Scizor and Lucario and (to an extent) Gyarados, then Zapdos would probably be your best bet.

Defensive Zapdos (the first set on the Zapdos analysis page) would suit your team very well, covering up several of the holes that exist.

I'm not a very experienced Snorlax user, so I'm not going to be able to tell you one way or another what to do with it. I would, however, recommend that you get rid of the Choice Specs on Gengar, seeing as it and Jolteon do basically the same thing on your team in terms of offense. If you want to keep Gengar, there are plenty of other sets you can run.

Would you mind reccomending an appropriate one?


I am considering ditching the Snorlax, and maybe a Zapdos would fit. Nice advice, thanks.

The first problem I saw was...
3 Specials
2 Physical
1 Mixed (Though mostly special, you get screwed on physical with anything that resists CC)

Might I suggest dropping Nasty Plot and going to a mixed with no Nasty Plot, run Thunderpunch or Stone Edge in its place?

Also with Metagross and Swampert both running around, Mamoswine can get outsped or outprioritied and killed with ease. And after Mamoswine your team has only Jolteon to provide anti-Dragon support. But if Salamence switchs into MixApe or whatever and gets off a DD, you are screwed. As it should outspeed most everything you have. Flygon can also probably do a number on you. I would suggest maybe running an Ice Beam on Starmie in favor of Recover (And please run 252 speed on Starmie, that set is really outdated, and doesnt work as well, I have personal experience on this set in particular and the massive change I saw after I switched.)
The guy above me also offers some pretty good advice.

Thunder Punch might be useful, yes. I usually have absolutely no trouble with dragons, due to the abundence of special sweepers. Hidden Power Ice and Ice Shard are useful of course, but just about anything boosted by some specs and STAB disposes of dragons. I am careful with Mamoswine in any case, and often switch out in the face of said enemies.

 

[EvilWeavile]

well first off stone edge is IMO the worst move in the game as the acuracy is only worth it against something like DD gyarados. Mixape is hard to wall and can take down blissey,skarmory,gyarados and so many others. On the other hand you have nothing with a priority move but that can be aranged if you replace snorlax. If you simply want something with choice band scizor could do nicely, or zapdos as it could cover up some holes on the team. As far as gengar goes, you can just replace the item with Life orb and it would be quite the efficiant sweeper as its still shut down by scizor without HP fire and at least 72 defence EVs.