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Raticate (QC 0/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by athleteandy1, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. athleteandy1


    Sep 19, 2010
    • strong with guts / hustle
    • received hustle
    • facade with guts and sd is strong
    • expansive movepool
    • not bad coverage
    • not much has changed for the furry rat

    name: Guts
    move 1: Facade
    move 2: Sucker Punch / Crunch
    move 3: U-Turn
    move 4: Protect / Wild Charge / Swords Dance
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    • strong
    • facade with guts and toxic orb does work
    • sucker punch to hit faster pokes or ghosts in general
    • crunch if you don't like sucker punch's unreliability
    • u-turn to deal damage as you get out
    • protect guarantees usage of burn orb
    • wild charge hits alomomola and bulky waters of that nature
    • sd makes you REALLY FREAKING STRONG but rarely gets to set up

    • jolly outspeeds 95s and below
    • toxic orb gets guts and facade boost
    • use flame orb with swords dance
    • guts takes advantage of status and gives pseudo immunity
    • hustle could be used with return and life orb over facade and toxic orb
    • evs make him fast and strong blah blah blah
    • hates steely types
    • dugtrio & magneton fix that
    • bulky ghosts can stall out burn orb by not attacking, assuming sucker punch
    • fire types can win against ghosts
    • scarfers easily ohko
    • same with priority
    • wynaut can handle both
    • also shares synergy

    [Other Options]
    • choice band set with hustle
    • many options
    • t-wave, but should be attacking, not supporting
    • rock smash for steels and rocks, but too weak
    • zen headbutt, but no further coverage
    • secret power is dumb
    • iron tail has unreliable accuracy
    • revenge, but raticate hates taking hits
    • final gambit, but shedinja does it better
    • jk, accelgor outclasses raticate in final gambit
    • reversal is nice with the dwindling hp from burn
    • flame wheel, but barely does anything
    • dig hits steels and rocks se
    • wouldn't see it coming
    • pursuit is done better by others
    • raticate should focus on killing everything, so super fang is out of the question

    [Checks and Counters]
    • steels
    • rocks, but less so
    • ghosts, but should watch out for sucker punch / crunch
    • alomomola and qwilfish (sort of) can wall those without wild charge
    • protect dwindles health
    • walrein can stall out with sub-protect and hail and burn
    • mach punch, or just priority in general
    • faster pokes or scarfers, like primeape
  2. marilli

    marilli two, but one.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 26, 2010
    IDK how many times this has come up ever since status orbs were around, but Toxic Orb is superior to Flame Orb for several reasons. The biggest one is that Raticate will start taking more damage only if it stays in for 4 or more turns. (which doesn't happen all that often, especially not with U-turn) For the first two turns Raticate is in, Toxic Orb damages him less.

    There's also Cofag and its mummy nullifying Guts on the off chance that Raticate needs to finish off a weakened Cofag, and Toxic won't hurt his attack even if that happens. But that's pretty situational anyway.
  3. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 6, 2009
    He's absolutely right, I'd remove the mention of flame orb
  4. Keiran


    Aug 21, 2011
    I would suggest a Hone claws + hustle set, but this rat somehow doesn't get hone claws,

    Nintendo strikes again.
  5. athleteandy1


    Sep 19, 2010
    Updated. Stupid Nintendo. Not giving Raticate Hone Claws.
  6. SuperJOCKE

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 4, 2010
    It's more stupid Game Freak though. Nintendo has nothing to do with it. :P
  7. EonADS


    Jan 7, 2010
    Give a mention of Guts + Flame Orb if you're using Swords Dance. You don't want to be switching constantly and losing that boost just to avoid increasing Toxic damage. Tbh, without Swords Dance it is inferior to Swellow, who has higher Attack and Speed stats as well as Brave Bird. (81 to Swellow's 85, and 97 to Swellow's 125).
  8. athleteandy1


    Sep 19, 2010
  9. Nails

    Nails Nuke the Weebs
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    May 14, 2010
    swellow is faster and more powerful for only a guts abusing set, and the lack of wild charge is irrelevant because a neutral facade hits harder than a 2x SE wild charge. as for the swords dancing set, adamant quick feet ursaring has roughly the same stats (3 more attack, 4 less speed) after the orb activates, a way better movepool, and way better defenses (90/75/75 vs 55/60/70). it can swords dance as well, and the additional bulk lets it set up more easily.

    sorry, raticate is outclassed in RU.

  10. athleteandy1


    Sep 19, 2010
    You make sense. It doesn't matter what the rest of QC says to me, because I'm going to delete this because he's so outclassed.

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