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Red Spray on the Snow (Peaked #5)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by bubbly, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    [​IMG]



    Right, so, it’s been a long time since my last RMT. Teambuilding is the only thing I really enjoy about this game anymore so I make quite a lot of teams. Most of them turn out decently but none of my recent ones have felt special, except for this one. When BW2 came out I immediately knew I wanted to anti-metagame with Hail. Everyone was using Rain offense with the new Therian forms; Abomasnow absorbs water attacks, easily revenges Tornadus and Thundurus with Ice Shard, and also provides some pretty fierce offense if you can predict well enough. Also, Kyurem picked up Earth Power, letting it roll straight over SpDef Jirachi, who was the Steel type of choice on most teams as the only 100% Tornadus counter.​

    With the first two team members decided, I needed to cover threats sufficiently, provide Rapid Spin support, and hopefully help break down Steels and other weather inducers. This was easier said than done. Hail is always tricky to teambuild for, and it just got a lot harder with the Therians and (especially) Keldeo in the metagame. Immediately I decided I needed to use Tentacruel. Basically, everyone else was using Tentacruel in Rain; if I didn’t use one myself I’d be at a massive disadvantage, having an inferior Spinner (and very few of them can handle powerful rain attackers), and also being under a huge amount of pressure to spin if the opponent got Toxic Spikes down. Of course Tentacruel is always appreciated on Hail as a reasonable check to Scizor, Jirachi, and some Fighting types, while it’s Toxic Spikes let me beat the pink blobs 100% of the time with SubKyurem.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Still very weak to Steel types, Fighting types, Sun, Therians, and generic Sand members. I played around a bit with Landorus-T, which was really nice as a pivot with Intimidate, but eventually settled on Gliscor as a more reliable counter to Fighting types. Blissey came in, as I realised that it was the only thing which could 100% handle Tornadus and Thundurus and I really wanted to troll Rain users (and it could help Tentacruel’s dodgy survivability with Wish). Finally I added Heatran to absorb Outrage’s, and beat Sun and Jirachi / Scizor.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    To be honest, this was probably my favourite version of the team. It did have some serious flaws – weaknesses to Keldeo and Reuniclus, mainly – but when you can get a guaranteed win against the team 70% of the ladder is using, it feels like it’s worth it. From memory this got me up to #9 a few days after BW2 was released on PO.

    However, I soon started running into some difficulties, for obvious reasons. People lost interest in trying out the new BW2 toys. Blissey wasn’t as effective any more, and actually a lot of people started using Reuniclus, my nemesis. I realised I needed to revamp the team. I spent a lot of time with various versions of Abomasnow / Jirachi / Tentacruel / Landorus-T, usually with Kyurem and a Keldeo counter like Gyarados. This is how I hit upon the Jirachi / Latias core, which has pretty nice synergy generally, but more importantly walled Tornadus, Thundurus, and Keldeo; removing the need for Blissey. I rebuilt the team around that core and got this:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    This did okay, and in particular the double dragon synergy coupled with Abomasnow to lure Steels was great, but it was obvious that I couldn’t handle Sun or Jirachi / Scizor. I swapped Jirachi for Heatran, covering those threats, but opening up slight problems with Tornadus and Latios; so Scarf Landorus-T replaced Gliscor to patch those over and also grab momentum against the standard Tyranitar VoltTurn teams which had been troubling me. These changes brought the team to its current, finished state. Everything was working perfectly and I started going back up the ladder. I made a few more minor changes (such as enough bulk on Landorus to always survive Scarf Latios DM) before finally making it to #5.

    Anyway, that’s definitely enough of an introduction from me so without further ado, allow me to present:


    Red Spray on the Snow

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    A Closer Look


    [​IMG]

    Abomasnow @ Expert Belt, Snow Warning
    148 HP / 252 Atk / 48 SAtk / 60 Spd, Lonely Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Wood Hammer
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    If anyone asks me (they won’t, but if they did) this is the best Snowman. Choice Band is cool for practically OHKOing SpDef Jirachi, and having a much more powerful Ice Shard, but it is massive setup fodder. Also, this version of Aboma is much harder to play around for standard Rain and Sand teams, which often don’t have a pokemon which isn’t hit supereffectively. Expert Belt can easily feign a Choiced set (particularly against lower rated players), which leads to fun scenarios where people start leaving their Forretress in on what they think is a Choice Scarf Wood Hammer. When you go higher up the ladder, it’s better to switch out the first time you get a matchup like Abomasnow vs. Forry, because the opponent will usually scout first; and the second time you can HP Fire for a clean KO. Protip: players with Forretress on their team typically rely on it a lot, and so will usually be forced to stay in the second time or else completely lose control of the entry hazards.

    The thing to remember when using Abomasnow is that it forces switches incredibly easily. Say I bring it in on a Gliscor or Landorus-T, a pretty common scenario when they switch into my Landorus’ U-turn. There is no chance at all that my opponent will stay in, unless they want to Protect, but that’s also pretty risky against a possible SubSeed Aboma. 9 times out of 10, the average ladder player will go to Heatran / Jirachi / Tyranitar, only to lose 60% or more of their health to Earthquake. 60%, by the way, is a crucial number in taking down SpDef Jirachi and Scizor, because it means neither can survive a Blizzard from Kyurem, and Latias can also KO with Dragon Pulse after a tiny bit more residual damage. Abomasnow can also be a valuable late game cleaner, especially if my opponent conserves Latios / Tornadus / Scarf Landorus etc, which they’re often forced to so they can revenge Kyurem. Ice Shard does a surprising amount of damage even when the opponent isn’t weak to it, and since this team is naturally focused on abusing residual damage and breaking down Ice resists, Abomasnow can occasionally sweep through the last two or three pokemon.

    Abomasnow obviously isn’t great at winning weather wars, except against Rain teams (where he ALWAYS wins). Luckily Tyranitar and Ninetales are both worn down quickly by Toxic Spikes, and while common Sand and Sun builds use mons like Amoonguss, Starmie and Venusaur to remove them, these are invariably set up fodder for Kyurem. Like I mentioned before, Abomasnow is typically a valuable pokemon to have around in the lategame, and luckily the team doesn’t need Hail up to function, so I can afford to play conservatively with it. If the opponent doesn’t have a weather inducer, though, typically I’ll bring him in as often as possible early game to break down Steel, and then keep him in check on low health so I have Ice Shard to fall back on later.

    I suppose I should give a small mention to the EV spread. 252 Attack with Lonely is obviously for getting the best use out of Wood Hammer, Ice Shard and Earthquake (Lonely was best because I couldn’t afford to lower my special attack, and Abomasnow mainly needs to take special hits. It’s annoying sometimes facing DDNite with Extremespeed though). Abomasnow is intended as a wallbreaker, and it handles the attacks it needs to without any significant investment in bulk. I’m not exactly sure what the 48 Special Attack EV’s do but from memory they guarantee a 2HKO on Ferrothorn after some residual damage. 60 Speed puts me a few points ahead of standard CB Scizor so I can catch them trying to U-turn with HP Fire (okay, so Scizor users know that Abomasnow invariably carry HP Fire, but it’s nice when I absolutely need to keep momentum on my side). The remaining 148 EV’s go into HP so that random Scald’s and Volt Switches don’t do anything significant.


    [​IMG]

    Tentacruel @ Leftovers, Rain Dish
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef, Bold Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Blizzard

    Tentacruel is such a trolly pokemon. In Rain it absolutely never dies and can Rapid Spin forever; but it doesn’t offer anything to Rain teams typing wise and just compounds the Electric weakness. Outside of Rain, it dies incredibly quickly to residual damage and takes crippling damage from just about any attack. That said, it’s still reliable enough at what it does to be a very important component of my team. Against offensive teams, it typically lives just long enough to Rapid Spin once or twice and get a layer of Toxic Spikes before I have to sacrifice it to a Rotom-W or Latios something to conserve momentum. That’s usually all I need when playing against offense, because the rest of the team can pick up the slack very easily – especially when the Electric and Grass type mons which are typically brought in to kill Tentacruel off gift Kyurem a free Substitute.

    On the other hand, Tentacruel really does shine against stall, and against Rain teams. My team doesn’t like facing stall that much; most of the members are geared towards beating offense. Of course, if the stall team is some kind of half baked stall without a Rapid Spinner or a grounded Poison type, Toxic Spikes can decide the match in my favour very quickly, but that isn’t a common scenario. Abomasnow can trouble some stall teams, but mostly I rely on Kyurem, who is essentially uncounterable behind a Substitute. However, if SR and Toxic Spikes are down, Kyurem can’t do its job at all, so Tentacruel is crucial. The only thing which can commonly block me from Rapid Spinning is Jellicent, which is a) hit by Toxic Spikes, meaning the opponent can’t bring it in whenever they want, and b) is set up fodder for Kyurem. Against Rain, this works even better, because Tentacruel doesn’t need to worry about things like Skarmory’s Brave Bird, or even Ferrothorn’s Power Whip to an extent. Also, Rain stall loses very very painfully to Kyu and Aboma so it isn’t much of a problem.

    Again, I’ll give a brief mention to the EV’s and moveset. Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes are obvious and essential, same with Scald. Blizzard is because I can; it’s nice to stop NP Celebi, DD Dragonite / Mence and so on, but its primary purpose is to beat Disable Gengar. HP is maximised for the best all round bulk, and I needed to focus on physical defense as much as possible to handle Cloyster, which can't really set up if I play carefully but is still a huge pain. It also helps with surviving Tyranitar's Crunch though, which is a common scenario.

    [​IMG]

    Heatran @ Leftovers, Flash Fire
    252 HP / 248 SDef / 8 Spd, Calm Nature
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earth Power

    Heatran is still such a great pokemon, even though most of the metagame shifts since the start of BW haven’t been friendly. He’s the main defensive backbone to my team, absorbing a whole spectrum of attacks from Specs Hurricane and Draco Meteor to Fire Blast and Iron Head. In earlier versions of the team when I was using Blissey, I ran a more offensive Heatran to bring in bulky Waters which Kyurem could then set up on. It still does that but without the oomph behind his Fire attacks the opponent can better afford to predict around them. Heatran is also my dedicated SR user, and is extremely reliable. When most people see a Hail team in team preview, they lead with Scizor, Jirachi, or Heatran (okay, so some of them carry Machamp etc, in which case I’ll usually lead with Landorus-T and still be in a good position against Jirachi, Heatran and Tyranitar). Because of this, Heatran is my lead in about 60% of matches because it usually gets a favourable matchup and can SR straight away. Even better, the opponents Steel is also commonly their Stealth Rock user so I can delay that as well.

    Let me talk for a bit about handling Sun teams, which are usually tricky for Hail to deal with. Heatran is crucial, of course, but most Sun teams have a lot of Heatran lures, such as EQ Venusaur, HP Ground Ninetales, or just Dugtrio. Luckily, I have Latias and even Tentacruel as solid Fire attack absorbers when I need to be cautious with Heatran. Kyurem and Latias give most Sun a lot of trouble, and are especially good for beating Chlorophyll abusers. Finally, Landorus-T is just about the best counter to Sun teams with Dugtrio, getting a great lead matchup against virtually any common member they use.

    Special defense is maximised, I speed creep whenever I can justify it so the 12 Speed is to beat other Heatran (which are actually one of the four biggest problems for the team – with max special defense though, my Heatran can easily survive an Earth Power and OHKO back in mirror matches). Roar prevents set up and is fun for beating Wish Blissey with.


    [​IMG]

    Latias @ Leftovers, Levitate
    252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd, Timid Nature
    - Recover
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roar
    - Calm Mind

    Latias is my favourite chicka and a pretty great pokemon at the moment. It’s one of the very few sure counters to Keldeo and Thundurus, and even better, it beats a lot of the anti-Rain offense which is going around such as CM Raikou, Technician Breloom, and TR Reuniclus. Keldeo and Reuniclus in particular tend to trash balanced / defensive teams like this one so Latias is essential. Latias can even beat LO Tornadus if she’s healthy which is invaluable.

    I mentioned the double dragon synergy I’ve got going on with Kyurem and Latias, so I think I should explain a bit more. Basically, a lot of people try to treat SubKyurem as a sweeper, which is exactly what it isn’t (except against stall). It’s too slow and it’s revenged too easily. It generally performs much better as a mid- to late-game wallbreaker which can OHKO the things which outspeed it and 2HKO the bulkier things which don’t. Latias is usually my endgame sweeper, because she’s virtually unstoppable once Kyurem has cleaned out Steels, Tyranitar and Blissey.

    Dragon Pulse, Recover and Calm Mind are all standard. Roar is necessary for Psyshock Reuniclus, and is also fun for trolling Sigilyph, Suicune, Virizion, Rain abuse CM Rachi, and so on. I generally prefer the physically defensive set with Reflect, especially since I don’t have Spikes to abuse with Roar, but it can’t be helped – and this one has been working nicely so I’m not complaining. Max speed for beating Terrakion and the other base 108’s, and even more crucially for HP Fire Latios. 252 HP is standard and even more essential than in the past because Keldeo’s Rain-boosted Hydro Pump’s hurt like Jesus. It also lets me take stuff like SpDef Tar’s Crunch, and Scarf Scizor’s U-turn.


    [​IMG]

    Landorus-T @ Choice Scarf, Intimidate
    32 HP / 224 Atk / 252 Spd, Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower

    Yeah I know, that picture is of a standard Landorus instead of Landorus-T. Well spotted. One had cool artwork, one didn’t. You can deal with that right? Yeah, that’s what I thought.

    Ahem. So, Landorus-T is the only present from BW2 which I’ve introduced to my team, and for good reason. Scarf Landorus was already used a bit on Rain and Hail teams as a nice catch all revenge killer, and especially as anti-Sand, but the Therian form really steps it up a gear with Intimidate and boosted Attack. This is far and away the best pivot I’ve ever used, including the usual heavyweights like Slowbro and Amoonguss. Intimidate means it can switch into nearly any physical attack – CB Terrakion can’t even hurt it that badly with Stone Edge, and puny attacks like CB Scizor’s STAB Technician Bullet Punch can just be shrugged off. From there, you U-turn out, or attack if you see an opening. Best of all is that the only things which really wall this Landorus – Tangrowth, Gliscor, Skarmory – are all perfect fodder for Kyurem or one of my other mons. Apart from that, Landorus really does revenge kill whatever you want him to. Latias gets caught by Pursuit and Keldeo is about to sweep? Earthquake. DDTar? Earthquake. SD Lucario sets up? Intimidate, then Earthquake. You can revenge Dragonite too but then I’d have to stop saying Earthquake (Protip: use Stone Edge). Also, I’m not sure whether I should use Stone Edge or HP Ice. HP Ice is really only useful for Gliscor and other Landorus; that said, I’d probably still use it if it didn’t force me to lower one of my defenses.

    I mentioned Scizor and it’s one of the most common lead matchups with Landorus so it gets a mini-paragraph all to itself. I often lead with Landorus instead of Heatran if I suspect Tyranitar or an opposing Heatran. If the opponent actually brings out Scizor, it may seem like a bad situation because he has the slower U-turn and thus retains momentum. Not so. Landorus-T is such a pro that I can just EQ for ~60% damage and essentially take Scizor out of the match. From that amount of health, Kyurem OHKO’s with Blizzard, and it only takes a few turns of Hail or SR damage and Latias can do the same. No more annoying red insect.

    Jolly > Adamant is because I lost in the past by assuming I outsped a Rotom-W, only to meet a watery demise. Most of the remaining EV’s go to his mighty attack stat, except for 32 which want to be different. Scarf Latios once got the 16% chance (fun fact: 83.7% of statistics are made up on the spot) or whatever (all I know is it was really small) of OHKOing me with Draco Meteor on the first turn, so those 32 EV’s in HP make sure it doesn’t happen again. It also gives it a decent shot of surviving Surf as well, which is nice. Superpower is the only non-obvious move on the set which I haven’t already talked about; basically, it hits Ferrothorn. Also good for catching Balloon mons like Heatran and Tyranitar (if the opponent leads with them I usually go for Superpower to prevent SR).


    [​IMG]

    Kyurem @ Leftovers, Pressure
    EVs: 56 HP / 232 SAtk / 220 Spd, Modest Nature
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Blizzard
    - Earth Power
    - Substitute

    Finally, the thing you’ve all been waiting for. To quote my old tutor Agammemnon: Ladies, contain your orgasms. Once Kyurem gets behind a Sub, something WILL die. Except Scizor. Scizor can be annoying. Anyway, this is the most brutal set in the current metagame. It gets free Substitutes on pretty much every Water, Grass, Electric, or Ground type. From there it can just unleash Blizzards, occasionally stopping to swat a stray Jirachi / Heatran / Tyranitar with Earth Power. For illustration; with Hail’s residual damage factored in, Blizzard is on par with Latios’ Draco Meteor, but without the SpAtk drop. Dragon Pulse is basically filler, and in the past I’ve used Dragon Tail and Roost in that spot (Roost is scary for PP stalling. For instance, it lets you stall out Blissey’s Seismic Toss while not losing any health. Stuff like Heatran’s Fire Blast or Tyranitar’s Stone Edge are even easier). It is still useful for hitting Water types and also for conserving Blizzard’s PP because you only have 8, but if the number of Rain teams on the ladder keeps declining I’ll definitely go back to Roost.

    Kyurem’s natural bulk is also extremely helpful. Some offensive teams don’t give me the chance to grab a Substitute, but Kyurem can still soak up powerful supereffective hits and OHKO back. Things like +1 Gyarados’ Bounce and LO Tornadus Superpower can be survived comfortably and retaliated against. The 56 HP EV’s help with this, although their primary purpose is of course in letting Kyu make 101 HP Subs. 220 Speed EV’s let me outpace Adamant Lucario and the other things which sometimes sit at that benchmark like Hydreigon; finally the rest go into special attack because MOAR POWER.

    Threats

    If you’ve been reading carefully and / or are intelligent, you’ll know there are four pokemon which can cause me serious trouble if played well. These are as follows:
    [​IMG]THE threat. Gets super effective coverage on two thirds of my team just with its STAB attacks. Luckily, Kyurem beats it 1 on 1 easily and can survive either of its STAB’s followed by an Ice Shard from full health. If I have to I can play around it with Landorus-T’s Intimidate.
    [​IMG]Absolute dick. If he does manage to outpredict me and hit Heatran with Surf then nothing can take a Draco Meteor. Specs is pretty manageable, Expert Belt, or Life Orb to a lesser extent, can be dangerous. Luckily I have good revenge killing options in Abomasnow, Landorus-T and Latias.
    [​IMG]Not as bad because it lacks power, meaning most my bulky mons can survive one hit and cripple it in return. That said between LO Hurricane and Focus Blast / Superpower I don’t really have a safe switchin (Specs is a lot easier). Latias and Heatran can both take one hit comfortably; I have good revenge killing options in Landorus-T and Abomasnow.
    [​IMG]Irritating. The problem is everything I want to switch in is crippled by either Earth Power or Will-o-wisp. If I can lure it with Ground attacks from Kyurem or Abomasnow it helps a lot, otherwise I just have to play around with Lando, Heatran and Tentacruel.


    Any suggestions for a way to counter Mamoswine (the others can all be played around without that much drama) without losing significant threat coverage or offense would be really appreciated :) Finally, apart from being an awesome name, “Red Spray on the Snow” is a reference to something from Avatar: the Legend of Korra so if any hardcore fanboys know what it is they get a week’s supply of my special chocolate chip cookies.


    That brings me to the end of the RMT! Thanks for reading :)
  2. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,983
    Ok this looks like a pretty good semi-stall team you have here. Your ladder ranking clearly shows that.

    Your specially defensive core is kind of odd, as you can see with your various variations in it. I spent a good long time theorymoning this, and the best solution I can think of is to run Blissey over Heatran. Between Blissey and Latias almost all of your special threats can be solved I think, Latios handles sun teams, Reunicles, Thudurus-T and Keldeo, and Blissey for everything else. It also helps with your current special weaknesses, Latios with life orb / expert belt can't break through Blissey, it handels focus blast Tornadus, and handles easily most Heatrans. It seems to be a pretty goood switch unless I am missing something big.

    Using a set with rocks is easily the easier switch. Im not sure if you want a more physically bulky version though, I personally haven't used Blissey in BW2 yet (although from what I here no amount of physical bulk helps take superpowers).

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Softboiled
    - Toxic
    - Seismic Toss
    - Stealth Rock

    To be honest I can't think of any way to solve your Mamoswine weakness though, Skarmory might be something to consider as it doesn't open up any huge threats, but that leaves you weaker to Terrakion, you may just have to live with it.

    I do have to note one thing tiny thing though. Switch over that one ev point to special defense on Latias. That one point may not seem important, but I was doing keldeo calcs a while back, and it has a tiny chance to 2HKO it which can be completely avoided if you move that.
  3. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    Thanks for the rate Scarfwynaut. I wish I could use Blissey over Heatran but then Iron Head Jirachi, and Scizor, would run straight through me. I might be able to use Skarmory > Landorus at the same time though, which mostly covers that, and overall helping against Mamoswine / Tornadus / Latios (although it does make me a lot weaker to Sun and Terrakion and CM Jirachi). Plus, Spikes support is really great on Hail because it wears down pretty much all the usual threats to it. I'll give it a go :)

    The extra special defense point on Latias seems legit as well, thanks for pointing that out :)

    EDIT: For below, Blissey would also address HP Ground Volc. Been testing the SkarmBliss change a bit and it works nicely, CM Jirachi has been bugging me though :(
  4. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    347
    Well after looking at the team i noticed a HUGE weakness to HP ground Volcarona, since, after a Quiver Dance its pretty much a 6-0 from there if youre against a relatively good player. I may be wrong and you have ways to work around it to roar it out with heatran but thats what i saw.

    On the other hand, Standard Tank Bronzong can replace heatran quite well since it has pretty much the same synergy and lols at mamo all day:


    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Sexy team and an excellent read - thanks for sharing, bubbly! I am a fan of your RMT :)

    Starmie > Tentacruel may be an option - it will provide one less Pokemon that Mamoswine can kill, and one solid Pokemon to check Mamoswine. You lose Toxic Spikes, but Starmie is pretty darn effective in spinning, imo, especially with Hail negating Jellicent's Leftovers. It can take out Gengar in a heartbeat with its Psychic STAB, too.

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Timid | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~ Hydro Pump / Surf
    ~ Thunder(bolt) / Grass Knot
    ~ Psyshock / Psychic
    ~ Rapid Spin

    This is just a general template, but probably the most effective set. Thunder Wave or Recover are other options, to consider, too (and of course Blizzard).
  6. asterat

    asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    998
    Offensive starmie can hardly take a LO earthquake and toxic spikes and Kyurem is his (her?) best weapon against stall
  7. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    Thanks for more rates :) Yeah, if I was going to use Starmie I'd use a bulkier set (252 HP / 40 SpAtk / 216 Spe Timid), because really the only reason it would be noticeably better would be for handling Mamoswine. The team definitely works better overall with Tentacruel for absorbing and setting Toxic Spikes though, so I think I have to stick with him and just accept that Mamoswine is going to be a pain.
  8. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
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    883
    First and final bump
  9. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Messages:
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    Hey bubbly,

    Your team is pretty good (I enjoyed a lot reading the thread) but it has a major Mamoswine weakness. After thinking for long, I came up with a ''tweak'' to fix your Mamoswine weakness (and helping a bit with the Heatran one too) you could use a bulky Rotom-W version along Specially Defensive Forretress over Tentacruel and Heatran. This change lets you handle Mamoswine, Heatran and Tornadus-T much better while still allowing you to abuse Toxic Spikes (you can always put Stealth Rock on Landorus-T if you dislike having Rapid Spin+Toxic Spikes+Stealth Rock due to how much pressure that puts on Forretress). While you lose a bit of ''advantage'' against Sun teams, Rotom-W, Latias and Kyurem are still great responses to the commonly used Chlorophyll abusers / Fire attackers seen on Sun teams. Of course, if you don't feel like keeping Toxic Spikes is 100% necessary you can always use a Bulky Starmie set over Tentacruel.

    Hope I helped!
  10. SA1TS

    SA1TS

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    40
    Great RMT; well presented and nice descriptions.

    Small nitpick, your EV spread for Heatran has 8Spd but you mention you use 12Spd in the description.

    Luvdisc'd

    ED. You can try specially defensive Empoleon with a Balloon in place of Heatran to help counter your threat list without losing much synergy. It can also help to sponge all the rain boosted Surfs' going around.

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