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Research Week #5: The Forgotten Suspects

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by barry4ever, May 15, 2012.

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  1. barry4ever

    barry4ever
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Research Week - Ubers Edition!
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Duration:
    May 15th - May 29th
    Thanks to Texas Cloverleaf.


    Research Week looks to investigate Pokemon that have potential in Ubers, be it in stats, movepool, or supporting their team, to serve as an innovative choice in today's metagame. These are Pokemon that, for the most part, remain relatively untested. I've selected 3 Pokemon I feel, with help from everyone else, could see the rise of new and powerful sets, or the fulfilment of a particular niche. Perhaps the title is a bit of a misnomer; in fact, this installment (and likely future ones) of Research Week will continue as long as the discussion does, and that's where you all come in.

    If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning, such as damage calculations! Posting replays showcasing the pokemon you selected is especially encouraged.

    • Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize!
    • Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in Uber, and what sets are effective on them.
    • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
    • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 3 Pokemon we are "researching". Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect the next research week to have all the Pokemon you suggested, or any of them.

    So, the 3 Pokemon we will be looking at this research week are Dragonite, Volcarona, and Reuniculus.

    .[​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG].
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    How useful are these Pokemon in Uber? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? What roles can they fill in teams? Are they worth the team slot on your team or is it outclassed?

    Discuss; the discussion that come out of this will surely be illuminating! Don't forget, you're not just limited to this topic to discuss these Pokemon. The #ubers irc channel is a perfectly suitable place to discuss them as well. Feel free to take the discussion to #pokemon as well. At the end of the discussion period, hope we can reach a general consensus on how good these Pokemon really are, and that we might find some interesting discoveries.

    Alright, now that that's out of the way we can get to the fun part of this. First up, Reasearch Week will now have a duration of roughly two weeks. The reason for this is as follows:
    The Research Week Challenge:
    • Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team
    • Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 1350 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1300 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1250 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team.
    • Users will be expected to post their experiences with the pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encoutered while trying to make the said pokemon work.
    • If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.
    In order to participate in the challenge, simply post what Pokemon you're trying and your fresh new alt (yes, this is mandatory). Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

    It has been noticed that the last few Research Weeks have been basically reduced to ladder runs. This completely defeats the purpose of Research Week where the idea is NOT TO see if a person can get a high ladder rating with an underused Pokemon but to subjectively assess as a community, whether that particular Pokemon is viable in the tier and discover its potential in the tier. In order to remedy this, an archive is going to be created including the past Research Week, highlighting great posts. From this Research Week onward, the most thoughtful researcher will also be rewarded alongside the user with the highest ladder rating. The reward scheme will be the same.

    Rewards:

    Winning the Research Week challenge grants you prizes. Here's the rewarding system:
    • Winning one RW will grant you VOPs (+) in #ubers.
    • Winning two RW challenges will grant you a larger avatar.
    • Winning three RW challenges will grant you a Custom Title.
    • Winning five RW challenges will grant you HOPs (%) in #ubers.
    * You might get a Custom Title for winning two RW challenges, and a larger avatar for winning three.
    ** Getting HOPs in #ubers might take four wins, and maybe more, depending on our judgment if you deserve it or not.


    Furthermore, quality posting may be rewarded with larger avatars or custom titles, even if you did not win the challenge. So get out and post!​
    alt list (open)
    • Furai - Rising Star
    • Go10 - Jean-michmich
    • barry4ever - Dorian Gray
    • puregenius - sneezygenius
    • ThunderBlunder - Thunderblunder3
    • Superimp - Rising This / Rising Is / Rising COPYRIGHTED
    • mostawanted - ubermoth
    • shrang - Foetuses are tumours
    • NTT - Turtles and Cake
    • Tomahawk9 - bingo_player
    • spuds4ever - Jelly on the plate / Singin in the Sun
    • TrollFreak - Solesbian
    • syrim - No city
    • jonathanrp - JRP4
    • locoghoul - alex sun
    • Omicron - motharona


    Research Week #5 Hall of Fame (open)
    Gold Class: 1350+
    1. Syrim: [​IMG]
    #1 - 30/5/2012 - 1352
    [[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]]
    Silver Class: 1300-1349
    Currently none!​
    Bronze Class: 1250-1299
    1. puregenius: [​IMG]
    #35 - 16/5/2012 - 1258
    [[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]]

    2. Furai: [​IMG]
    #37 - 19/5/2012 - 1251
    [[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]][[​IMG]]


    Past Research Weeks (open)
    [​IMG] Research Week #1
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] Research Week #2 - won by Fiction. with a rating of 1414!
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] Research Week #3 - won by Fiction. with a rating of 1391!
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] Research Week #4 - won by Fiction. with a rating of 1403!
  2. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    Already tested Volcarona as an anti-lead, he was so-so. He can be decent midgame as a wallbreaker, here are some calc when I was trying to build around him (LO modest full) :
    Show Hide
    Fire blast +1:

    Arceus 252/4 : 123.9% - 145.9% (Sun)
    Arceus 252/4 : 82.7% - 97.5%
    Arceus 4/0 : 96.1% - 113.4%

    Dialga 252/116 : 94.6% - 111.6%
    Dialga 252/116 : 142.1% - 167.3% (Sun)
    Dialga 4/0 : 126.3% - 148.5%

    Ferrothorn 252/252 : 106.8% - 127.3% (RAIN!)
    Skarmory 252/252 : 77.2% - 91.6% (Rain)

    Giratina 252/4 : 54.3% - 63.8% (Sun)
    Giratina-O 252/4 : 63.9% - 75.4% (Sun)
    Giratina-O 4/0 : 73% - 86.2% (Sun)
    Rayquaza 4/0 : 64.9% - 76.3%
    Zekrom 4/0 : 94.2% - 111.1% (Sun)

    Chansey 4/252 Calm : 46.7% - 55.1% (Sun)
    Chansey 252/4 Bold : 58.4% - 68.8% (Sun)
    Lugia 252/4 : 106% - 125% (Sun)
    Lugia 252/4 : 70.9% - 83.7%
    Ho-Oh 252/4 : 52.9% - 62.5% (Sun. Oui, OHKO with SR)

    Bug Buzz +1:

    Kyogre 4/0 : 71.1% - 83.6%
    Kyogre 252/4 : 60.6% - 71.3%
    Palkia 4/0 : 86.3% - 101.9%


    Anyway, taking Dragonite as Jean-michmich.
  3. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Okay, since I was the one who thought of this research week, I think I should say some stuff here. We chose Dragonite, Volcarona and Reuniclus as by the title suggests, they are the Pokemon that have been suspect tested in OU but never banned. I know Latios was one too, but since we know what Latios does (Dual Screen Memento and pretending that he still has Soul Dew), we decided that we're not going to include him. The point was the hypothetical "if they were banned, how would we use them, and what would we put on their analyses?"

    When we were drawing up this RW, we realised that all three of these Pokemon may not be viable or may just be totally outclassed in the Ubers metagame. Indeed, when Theorymon and I were testing Dragonite and Volcarona, we found them ridiculously underwhelming (Dragonite was just meh, while Volcarona seemed to do well in sun and nothing else). I have not yet tested Reuniclus, but something tells me it'll be too weak and not bulky enough to be of any major threat in Ubers. I hope to be proven wrong, however. If you do find a Pokemon completely underwhelming and is not up to scratch, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO SAY SO.
  4. puregenius

    puregenius

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    alt will be sneezygenius

    fiction will probably win again :\

    havent decided on which one i want to use yet as im pretty keen on all of them

    currently: 1204 - using d nite
  5. blunder

    blunder

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    I think I will try out Volcarona

    Alt: Thunderblunder3
  6. Superimp

    Superimp

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    Hmm, these pokemon look pretty interesting, although from the start I can guess they are probably going to be underwhelming. I think I'm going to test all three.

    Dragonite Alt: Rising This

    Reuniclus Alt: Rising Is

    Volcarona Alt: Rising COPYRIGHTED

    >.<
  7. LUST

    LUST
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    Volcarona seems really interesting in Ubers. I will be testing it out under ubermoth.
  8. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Okay, since Reuniclus is the only one I haven't tested yet, I'm going to try it out under the alt Foetuses are tumours.
  9. puregenius

    puregenius

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    IM DONE

    [​IMG]

    i tried 2 sets with dnite and both were horribly outclassed by ray. Sub ddance was used in an effort to set up on wat i thought would be common switch ins, ferrothorn and forretress. This failed horribly simply because if they didnt have one of those 2, he was just dead weight (even when they did, he still failed most of the time). A banded set worked out decently.

    Icarus (Dragonite) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 92 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch

    Icarus, the retard who was way out of his league and hence died horribly by falling from the sky. Fits him quite well tbh. While Rayquaza performs this almost a million times better, Dnite does have the advantage of being bulkier...... which is cancelled out by all the monstrous atkers in ubers with ice and dragon moves.

    Team: http://pastebin.com/wNwcpY07

    Conclusion: this guy really really really doesnt fit in at uber
  10. NTT

    NTT

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    I'll have a crack at dragonite.
    Alt: Turtles and Cake
  11. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
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    uh volcarona sucks least i guess

    bingo_player
  12. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

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    I'll be giving reuniclus a try:

    Alt: Jelly on the plate

    Edit: Reuniclus is literally completely out-classed by mewtwo. Can we try and have something that's not completely and totally out-classed? Because volc is the only thing here that isn't. It doesn't even have to be OU, let's get qwilfish up here some time!

    Changing to volc

    alt: Singin in the Sun
  13. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    lol, going to try Reuniclus on a TR team, as D-Nite is outclassed by Quaza due to better offensive stats and Speed, and Salamence due to Moxie. Multiscale is cool and all, but since it can be broken by just about any move not named Earthquake, idk how good it'll be. Volcarona is weak to all 3 forms of hazards, meaning that you'll have to pack a spinner / Espeon or Xatu for it to be effective. Not only that, but you'll also need to carry Groundon for sun support as well, meaning that you'll have 2 weaknesses to water already, and your hazard blocker won't help either, as both Tenta and Forry, the two common spinners, have trouble getting past Gira-O, the most common Uber spinnerblocker (Exca on sun is doubtful for me, but it still will have trouble to an EQ immunity)

    In what sense? If you're using Reuniclus as a standard attacker, like in OU, of course you'll find it outclassed, mostly because it isn't bulky enough to tank all the powerful attacks in ubers, such as Orge's Water Spout. If I'm using Reiunclus (which I will be) I would use either a TrickOrb set to cripple switch-ins such as T-Tar, or a OTR set to use its low base Speed. Both sets set it apart from Mewtwo, as Mewtwo doesn't have Magic Guard to use TrickOrb, or low base Speed to use Trick Room.

    EDIT- Oh yea, Using the blob thing, alt- Solesbian
  14. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

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    Mewtwo can get trick as well, though, and can do everything reuniclus can do without having to set up TR while maintaining more offensive pressure, virtually the same bulk, and useful moves like will-o-wisp. I also can't see reuniclus realistically setting up TR and calm minds seeing how crappy psychic typing is in ubers. But I'm not uber whizz, so don't quote me on it. There just doesn't seem any reason other than this research week that you would ever competitively use reuniclus in ubers.
  15. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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    Ok, I won't quote, but I would never use a Calm Mind Reiunclus, OTR is TR + 3 attacks, maybe might add Recover in the mix, idk yet. All in all, it may have some viability, and this RW was made to prove it (or to screw around with us, who knows)
  16. syrim

    syrim 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1

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    Entering with Dragonite, under the alt No city.
  17. jrp

    jrp wanker of the highest order

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    volcarona.

    alt: JRP4
  18. locoghoul

    locoghoul

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    volcarona

    alt: alex sun
  19. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Calm Mind + 2 attacks + recover may be alright against stall teams that don't have very good win conditions. Something like Calm Mind / Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / Recover may work, since Magic Guard is just that awesome.
  20. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Volcarona is one of my favorite Pokes, so why not?

    Alt: motharona
  21. gec

    gec i've been crawling through the falling
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    I find all these Pokemon completely underwhelming and not up to scratch. I don't mean to sound offensive but this is a terrible research week, everything has been proven to not work in Ubers basically before this. You have Reuniclus, a mon that can beat stall.... except stall is extremely rare. You have Dragonite, 'just another dragon' - completely outclassed by Ray/Mence and Volcarona that would be decent if Kyogre wasn't #1.
  22. Fiction.

    Fiction.

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    i didn't want to be mean but yeah what this guy said
  23. Steven Snype

    Steven Snype
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    Even though I ladder regularly for that "revitalize ladder" thing, I still see some RW mons. In particular, this RW has been disappointing. Celebi and Mew were interesting Pokemon last week, but as a regular player, these Pokemon didn't really do anything differently. As has been stated earlier, Mence/Ray > DNite. Volcarona meets SR + Rain + DTail + Roar + really any attack. Reuniclus is just god awful. The only merit it really has is Sash + TR, and as TR attackers go its base 125 SAtk < Dialga's 130 SAtk, access to LO/Lefties, typing and defensive stats to take hits. Any non-Sash set will just get KO'd by a strong attack, like a Palkia's Draco Meteor or Zekrom's Bolt Strike.
  24. locoghoul

    locoghoul

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    not to jump on the hatewagon but really, this RW blows. Landorus, Celebi and Jirachi have their niches at least (rain, sand, speed tier, typing, etc.). The "let's test these pokes because they are OU suspects" is a lame reason to justify a RW.
  25. Splendiferous

    Splendiferous

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    This week's mons don't do anything special. The paraflincher set for dnite poppy mentioned to me was interesting but just become really gimmicky. Volc is the only viable mon as it is a boosting sun sweeper but why not use venosaur or blaziken?
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