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Research Week - Numel

Discussion in 'Little Cup' started by Dracoyoshi8, Jul 14, 2010.

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  1. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
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    Here's the first LC Research Week! Most of the support in the nomination thread seemed to be directed at Numel, so here we go!

    Goals of this Research WeeK:


    • Figure out what moves are viable a Numel.
    • Find potentially good teammates for Numel.
    • Figure out what kind of team Numel preforms on.
    • Figure out what kind of support Numel may need to be productive.
    This thread is for discussion about Numel during the Research Week. I would appreciate that if any viable sets are discovered that they be posted here, since all the good ones will be combined into an analysis at the end of the week. Also feel free to post sets of any Pokemon that work good alongside Numel.

    Thank you, and let's get rolling!
  2. franky

    franky
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    Numel isn't exactly your cup of tea kind of LC Pokemon; lacks the Speed, the typing (defensively), and the sort of bulk it needs to switch into stuff. Let's look at its perks as a Pokemon:

    • Simple: Stockpile
    • Support options: Stealth Rock, Will-O-Wisp, and Yawn
    • Good STAB options in Earth Power, Overheat, Fire Blast
    What's the best way to exploit Numel to its full potential? I say Numel can run a support/defensive set despite the lack of reliable way to switch into many things and the lack of physical and special bulk.

    It does have a near exclusive ability Simple to boost up both defensive stats and Will-O-Wisp to offset the lack of physical bulk it has. Simple allows Numel to not only increase its stat on both ends, but it also boosts its stats by two stages! The good part about this is that this tier lacks a reliable way to erase boosted moves. I've scratched up a theorymon set that could potentially work:

    Stock Numel

    Numel (M) @ Oran Berry
    Ability: Simple
    EVs: 196 HP/196 Def/76 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Will-o-wisp
    - Stealth Rock / Rest
    - Stockpile
    - Earth Power

    Stockpile is obviously the eye candy of this set, as it allows Numel to increase its defensive stats by two stages. After a single boost, Numel is peaking at around 25/28/24 (HP/Def/SpD) -- a pretty high defensive stat for someone with a poor defensive typing. Will-O-Wisp makes this set even more difficult to budge, when you consider the amount of overzealous physical attackers that might try to switch in. Here is just a display of Numel's ability to take hits at +2

    Code:
    Earthquake LO Gligar vs +2 Numel - 56.00% - 80.00%
    DynamicPunch Machop vs +2 Numel - 28.00% - 36.00%
    Outrage LO Dratini vs +2 Numel - 40.00% - 52.00%
    Head Smash Choice Band Aron vs +2 Numel - 60.00% - 72.00%
    
    This is just a list of potent physical attackers derived from the May stats in order. As you can see, Numel can take quite the beating after a single boost and this doesn't even count Will-O-Wisp inflicting them. Your typical scenario would be Stockpiling on something as they switch in; survive the hit, hit them with Will-O-Wisp and begin the stall. Stealth Rock or Rest totally depend on what you plan to do: Support or Stall. Earth Power is the key of this set, as it can easily eat Rock-, Steel-types, and Houndour for super effective damage.

    I'm going to test this set later and see how it goes, but as for now I have a rough sketch of what Pokemon will draw in attacks for Numel to switch in and start setting up:

    -Munchlax
    -Duskull
    -Chinchou (choiced)

    From the list, I can lead off with Machop to lure in Duskull, which allows Numel to switch in and start setting up Stockpile. If you're lucky, you can can Duskull staying in and you can use Stockpile the second time to reach higher levels defensively. Munchlax will hurt not you with Earthquake after a boost, if you're lucky, you can grab the second boost and start spreading Will-O-Wisp the third time around.
  3. maniac200

    maniac200

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    Set Name: Wannabe Lileep

    Numel@Oran berry/Passho Berry/Chesto berry
    Simple, Bold/Calm
    A few different spreads could be used, not sure which would be the best. Maybe 196 HP/196 Def/76 SDef?
    Amnesia/Stockpile/Sleep talk
    Stockpile/Howl
    Rest
    Lava Plume/Toxic/Rock slide

    This set functions similarly to Lileep's stockpile set, except that Numel has simple, but no recovery move besides rest. The idea is simple (pun intended). Switch in on something that can't harm Numel very much, boost special defence greatly with Amnesia, or both defences with stockpile, depending on what attacks your opponent's pokemon uses. When the blows start to take their toll, rest off the damage and keep boosting. Numel is unique in being the only pokemon that can get both defences to +6 with stockpile because of simple. After boosting your defences to +6, either boost your attack with howl and plough through your opponent's team with rock slide, or toxic your opponents pokemon and watch them die slowly. Lava plume, with it's burn rate, can be used so you're not taunt fodder. Defense curl is not used on this set because stockpile is better in every way on numel. If you go the howl route, use stockpile/rest/rockslide alongside it. If you go with lava plume or toxic, use stockpile and amnesia/sleep talk alongside.

    Edit: Ninja'd.

    The differences between this set and the one above are that his set is more of a late game sweeper, meant for finishing off the opponents team after it's counters have been removed.
  4. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Don't forget that it also has Howl, plus Earthquake and Rock Slide to use with it. Although really, I don't see it being able to use them all that effectively, aside from 'Wannabe Lileep' (and honestly, I think Lileep will do that better because of the SS SDef Boost to Lileep's Rock-type) or inside of TR.
  5. Despotar

    Despotar

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    Switch the set to;
    Sleep talk
    Stockpile
    Rest
    Toxic/Lava Plume
    Roar is nigh upon useless with only one attack, stockpile is far more appreciated. This would be better, as you get + in def and SpD, you can either Poison or Burn your opponent, depending on your move in the last slot. The only reason to use Lava Plume over toxic is if you are scared of steels, and this'll half their atk, so making you a even better wall.
  6. maniac200

    maniac200

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    Uhh, roar and howl are different moves. Howl boosts your attack +1.
  7. Shinji Mimura

    Shinji Mimura

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    Quick idea for a Trick Room Howl Numel...

    Numel
    Brave. Oran Berry/Life Orb. Simple
    Howl
    Earthquake
    Return
    Fire Blast/Lava Plume

    *no EVs listed because I still don't understand EVs*

    The way I see it, with somebody as slow as Numel, but with the attacking prowess he has, Trick Room is probably the best way to go. Brave nature should see to it he goes first. Earthquake is for general STAB goodness with Howl. Return gives neutral coverage, and Fire Blast or Lava Plume depends on whether you want the power or want to attempt to burn things.

    Just an idea.
  8. Pika25

    Pika25

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    The EV spread 36 HP / 196 attack / 36 def / 236 spat maximizes both of your offenses, while evening your defenses. And with 0 IV in speed it has a speed of 8. Too bad it can't learn Curse according to serebii...
  9. iss

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    Guys, lets just have fun and BP to Numel!

    Numel @ Life Orb / Oran Berry
    Ability: Simple
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: I forgot, used to use this. Basically 15 speed, lots of spatk and the rest in ark

    ~Fire Blast
    ~Earth Power/Earthquake
    ~Hidden Power Ice
    ~Rock Slide

    Use Gligar and pass a rp to this. It will murder, trust me. However it does get worn down quickly by lo/weather/priority, so oran is an option to help that.
  10. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    ^ if gligar's passing a rock polish, thats +4 speed - i don't think max speed on numel is needed at all, might as well just stack up in spa and hp, with enough attack to possibly ko mantyke with rock slide?
  11. v

    v the last abortionbender
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    Yeah, I agree with KD here. There is no reason to run speed on a Numel that expects a Baton Pass. Its speed will be multiplied by 3, not 4, meaning as long as it has at least 10 speed it will outspeed almost all Scarfers and tie other speed boosting Pokemon. I am kind of skeptical as to Numel's merit as a BP receiver -- it is incapable of KOing Mantyke with Rock Slide, even with maxed out attack. Its typing is also atrocious when paired with Gligar, who is a magnet for Water- and Ice-typed attacks. I would probably pair it with Venonat instead, who also has a 97.5% accurate Sleep Powder to help it out with BPing. You would probably also need Chinchou to take out Mantyke, since Numel's Rock Slide is only doing 88% damage max with Life Orb.

    Setting up under TR has a tendency to fall flat on its face, since you only have a few turns to start with, and wasting one of them with stat-up moves is kind of a waste. I would definitely give Numel a try under Trick Room though. It has pretty good mixed stats, similar to Elekid, combined with awesome STABs. Earthquake/Fire Blast definitely seems like it would be a pain to deal with, especially when you consider that the strongest move Elekid commonly uses is ThunderPunch, which can't even hold the candle to EQ or FB.

    I am kind of interested in the Stockpile set, because I have failed to deal with Lileep more times than I care to count. However, it appears as though Rest is its only recovery option, and it is 2HKOed according to most of the calcs. Recycle could have been kind of cool to use with Oran, but Numel unfortunately doesn't get it.

    While I have yet to test it, I think that Scarf Numel could be cool. It has excellent STABs and is neutral Stealth Rock, so it may well be worth a try. Substitute Numel might also be cool. Switch-in on Duskull, Sub up, and attack safely. Of course, this is all theorymon, so I may well prove myself wrong after properly testing these sets.
  12. iss

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    Vader, getting 88% on tyke is enough because of SR. I agree on the Venonat point, can't wait to try that. Also, I forgot about simple, so KD's point is otherwise correct. I think the rest is right. Is it a good set, y/n?
  13. Towelie

    Towelie

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    I think a SubWoW set could work. (Yes I know, it's hard to set up a sub, but if you can find a way to scare something out it could work.)

    Numel@Oran Berry
    Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    196 HP/196 Def/76 SDef
    Substitute
    Will O' Wisp
    Overheat/Fire Blast
    Earth Power/Hp electric (dent's mantyke)

    So what likes switching in to Numel? Munchlax, gligar, insert physical ground type, etc. do they enjoy getting burned? no. this thing is very bulky and shit hates getting wow'ed on the switch.
  14. Neto-senpai

    Neto-senpai

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    I was thinking of a good way of using simple on numel and found out that it gets great partnership with surskit by receiving an agility baton pass instead of gligar cause of the water weakness.

    For a set it may seem gimmick and I haven't tested it yet but how about a simple boosted focus energy? along with scope lens it reaches 50% critical chance which is really good, with it's good base stats it just needs a critical hit to take down most of the LC walls:

    Numel@Scope Lens
    Mild (+SpA, -Def)
    196 Atk/236 SpA/76 Spe
    Focus Energy
    Fire Blast
    Earthquake
    Hp electric (just for mantyke)

    with the 76 spe ev's at +4 reaches 33, which outspeeds kabuto and horsea on the rain.

    Critical fire blast takes down gligar, crit quake takes down munchlax, just to name the most prominent walls.
  15. iss

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    The idea is gimmicky at best. Besides, how will you set up? Gligar will OHKO you with eq as you focus energy, munchlax will just hit you will a powerful eq that will OHKO you. There is no way you can set up with this. Also, is it confirmed that simple + focus energy works? btw, you have a 25% to crit, not 50%. You are only at +3 critical.

    EDIT: Didn't see this.
    This set is great in concept. But what are you going to force out? Maybe somethings like scarf staryu locked into thunderbolt. Keep in mind that Numel's defenses are so bad that even when burned stuff like gligar and munchy's eq will be doing a lot. Wynaut support might work with this set, but then i'm asking myself "Why don't I go all out offensive and kill stuff instead of burning it?" Numel is strong. It can 2hko munchy with eq, 2hko gligar with fire blast (ohko with hp ice) and kill just about everything with that. Numel's biggest problem is its speed. If Numel had 17 speed like dour, it woulf be used more.
  16. Neto-senpai

    Neto-senpai

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    Indeed, but It will receive a baton pass on resisted hit from surskit which most likely will end up on a switch (ie electric attacks, which stab earthquake scares) leaving it with a chance to set up.

    Focus energy adds 2, with simple would be 4 and scope lens 5.
  17. iss

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    Acording to serebii, focus energy makes the critical-hit stage go up by 1. Simple makes that 2 and scope lens makes it 3. Therefore, the ratio is 25%.

    Even if you set up, a 25% chance to kill something isn't worth it when they have a 75% chance to kill you. Besides, why wouldn't I just set up a substitute instead and 2hko them right off the bat?

    I present to you all: Substitute Numel.

    Numel (M) @ Life Orb / Oran Berry
    Ability: Simple
    Nature: Rash / Modest
    EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Spe / 236 SpA OR 196 HP / 36 Def / 36 Spe / 236 SpA EDIT: Fuck the EVs, I can't do those for shit.

    ~Substitute
    ~Fire Blast
    ~Earthquake / Earth Power
    ~Hidden Power Ice / Rock Slide / Hidden Power Electric

    Pass an agility to this and if you can bring it in on say, bronzor, you're on. Even without a substitute it can sweep. I recommend using an aglity passer and wynaut. This is different from my previous set because it can set up with agility or wynaut letting it get a sub. The only problem is that you lose some coverage...
  18. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
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    Awesome sets so far! Stock Numel, SubWoW and Substitute Baton Pass Receiver all look good. Howl Trick Room looks interesting, but using a turn to set up in Trick Room takes up precious time. I'm going to try Stock Numel on my Sandstorm team and see how it works, it looks like a viable option in the Sand for stalling capabilities. Great work so far!

    I have been trying to test SubSalac Numel. However, as I kinda anticipated, it has a lot of issues. Most notable in Numel's low Speed makes setting up a Sub very annoying. Bronzor and Munchlax are the only two things it has a chance against. Secondly, it is very weak to priority, which is always annoying. SubSalac is a no-go.
  19. iss

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    I have tested Stock Numel and found it to be crap.

    Why?

    Stock Numel does not get the same boost from sandstorm as Lileep does. It doesn';t get the SpD boost, most notably. Stock Numel still takes massive damage from many attacks after a Stockpile, most which 2hko it anyways while Numel can do almost nothing back. It also lacks the instant recovery of Lileep. So yeah, Stock Numel is completly outclassed by Stock Lileep. It also can't take a special attack for shit, as it's typing is one of the worst in the game.

    EDIT: I have a log for the amazing Substitute BP Receiver:

    Code:
    Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause, Little Cup Clause
    p-rpgs sent out Meowth (lvl 5 Meowth ?).
    lissc sent out Kabuto (lvl 5 Kabuto ?).
    Meowth used Fake Out.
    It's not very effective...
    Kabuto lost 10% of its health.
    Kabuto flinched!
    ---
    Pointblack21 has entered the room.
    p-rpgs: thinking?
    BlocksRcool has entered the room.
    BlocksRcool has left the room.
    Meowth used Bite.
    Kabuto lost 25% of its health.
    Kabuto used Waterfall.
    Meowth lost 85% of its health.
    ---
    Kabuto used Aqua Jet.
    Meowth lost 15% of its health.
    p-rpgs's Meowth fainted.
    ---
    p-rpgs switched in Machop (lvl 5 Machop ?).
    Kabuto used Aqua Jet.
    Machop lost 33% of its health.
    Machop used Dynamicpunch.
    It's super effective!
    A critical hit!
    Kabuto lost 65% of its health.
    lissc's Kabuto fainted.
    ---
    lissc switched in Gligar (lvl 5 Gligar ?).
    p-rpgs switched in Gligar (lvl 5 Gligar ?).
    Gligar used U-turn.
    It's not very effective...
    A critical hit!
    Gligar lost 26% of its health.
    p-rpgs: i tougt you would y turn
    lissc switched in Venonat (lvl 5 Venonat ?).
    ---
    p-rpgs: u turn
    Gligar used Earthquake.
    Venonat lost 72% of its health.
    Venonat's Oran Berry restored health!
    Venonat restored 40% of its health.
    Venonat used Agility.
    Venonat's speed was sharply raised.
    ---
    Venonat used Sleep Powder.
    Gligar fell asleep!
    Gligar is fast asleep!
    ---
    Venonat used Baton Pass.
    lissc switched in Numel (lvl 5 Numel ?).
    Gligar is fast asleep!
    ---
    Numel used Substitute.
    Numel lost 22% of its health.
    Numel made a substitute!
    Gligar is fast asleep!
    ---
    Numel used Fire Blast.
    Gligar lost 74% of its health.
    p-rpgs's Gligar fainted.
    Gligar's Oran Berry restored health!
    Numel lost 9% of its health.
    ---
    p-rpgs switched in Diglett (lvl 5 Diglett ?).
    Diglett used Sucker Punch.
    A critical hit!
    The substitute took damage for Numel!
    Numel's substitute faded!
    Numel used Fire Blast.
    Diglett lost 100% of its health.
    p-rpgs's Diglett fainted.
    Numel lost 9% of its health.
    ---
    p-rpgs switched in Machop (lvl 5 Machop ?).
    Numel used Fire Blast.
    Machop lost 67% of its health.
    p-rpgs's Machop fainted.
    Numel lost 9% of its health.
    ---
    p-rpgs switched in Dratini (lvl 5 Dratini ?).
    Dratini used Extremespeed.
    Numel lost 52% of its health.
    lissc's Numel fainted.
    Dratini lost 10% of its health.
    ---
    lissc switched in Croagunk (lvl 5 Croagunk ?).
    Dratini used Extremespeed.
    Croagunk lost 79% of its health.
    Dratini lost 10% of its health.
    Croagunk used Ice Punch.
    It's super effective!
    Dratini lost 81% of its health.
    p-rpgs's Dratini fainted.
    Croagunk lost 5% of its health.
    ---
    p-rpgs switched in Cyndaquil (lvl 5 Cyndaquil ?).
    Croagunk used Sucker Punch.
    Cyndaquil lost 65% of its health.
    Croagunk lost 5% of its health.
    Cyndaquil used Eruption.
    Croagunk lost 11% of its health.
    lissc's Croagunk fainted.
    ---
    p-rpgs: gg
    lissc switched in Gligar (lvl 5 Gligar ?).
    lissc: gg
    Gligar used Earthquake.
    It's super effective!
    Cyndaquil lost 35% of its health.
    p-rpgs's Cyndaquil fainted.
    lissc wins!
    p-rpgs has left the room.
    If you don't want to read it, basically Venonat comes in, takes a Gligar EQ, Agilities and then sleeps the Gligar, then BPs to Numel which subs and kills his Gligar, Diglett, and Machop before being taken out by Dratini's XSpeed.

    Ok, so I will conduct a summary of Numel's strengths and weaknesses:

    Competitve Moves:

    Special : Fire Blast, Lava Plume, Earth Power (HP Ice: Gligar is OHKOed by Fire Blast anyways) (HP Electric: Rock Slide OHKOes Mantyke after SR)

    Physical: Earthquake, Rock Slide

    Support: Substitute, Will-o-wisp, Stealth Rock (?)

    Abilities:

    Simple- This is THE reason to use Numel.

    Teamates:

    Venonat/Gligar/Surskit - Gives Numel an Aglity BP, which is essentially a +4 boost.
    Croagunk- Removes those pesky bulky waters.
    Stealth Rock mons- Residual damage is always nice, and it insures the OHKO on Mantyke.
    Fast mons (Elekid, Tailow, Staryu, etc.)- Help clean up the mess left by Numel
    Wynaut- Helps the Agility user set up.

    Team Style:

    BP/Offense- Numel can't be thrown on any team. Full BP chains just don't exist in LC, so a two poke-chain - Agility user to Numel- works very well.

    Support needed:

    -An agility passer is crucial.
    -After Numel sweeps, a fast mon to clean up is good.
    -Croagunk is useful for cleanup and to remove bulky waters.
    -Entry hazards are nice, especially SR.


    Thank you for choosing Numel for Research Week #1. This concludes my testing.
  20. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
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    Good work everybody! This concludes Little Cup's first research week! Expect an analysis for Numel being up soon. Also, sorry I wasn't too active. To be completely honest, I was engrossed in testing Arceus. But I'll still keep hosting Research Weeks!
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