Research Week ORAS Edition [Week 4] - Won by Celsius

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Kink

it's a thug life ¨̮
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
shout-out to my Mazz for being the OG-OP
Hello, Underused!

Professor Kink here to present to you Week 4 of the ORAS edition of Research Week!


Keep the following things in mind during every Research Week:
  • Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats and typing and think something up!
  • Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
  • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
  • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon or movesets I choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.
A few things to clarify:
  • Sign-ups can be as late as you want, but the week will always end on Saturday.
  • Early period means the first three days of the Research Week, so let's keep the theorymoning to a minimum after this period. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
  • The prizes for Research Week have been decided; winning a Research Week will grant you half-ops on our IRC channel, #xyuu. You'll also get put in the UU Hall of Fame. Don't forget, participation in projects like Research Week help towards earning the Community Contributor badge!
  • I'm implementing a mandatory discussion in order to be considered as a winner of Research Week. If you do not post one somewhat-coherent post that describes the Pokemon that you're using, their roles, and their niche in the metagame, you will be disqualified from winning this week. Please post about your experiences no matter if you think you've got a chance to win or not.
  • Finally, I'd like to implore you to all please remember to post and save your replays. Often, these replays are the most informative sources of information about RW Pokemon - you can write a full two paragraphs about the role of a Pokemon, but often that can all be summed up with a video and an explanation of it. How useful are these Pokemon in XYUU? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #xyuu and the Viability Ranking Thread as well.


This Week's ORAS Selection
Cresselia
Ability: Levitate
Evs:
Nature
-
-
-
-

Zoroark
Ability: Illusion
Evs:
Nature
-
-
-
-

Rhyperior
Ability: Solid Rock
Evs:
Nature
-
-
-
-

In order to participate you must do the following:
  • Post here with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
  • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
  • The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends.
  • Winners will also receive a permanent spot in the XYUU Hall of Fame
  • PLEASE post your updated rank with your updated analysis ON SATURDAY
 
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Lucipurrr

Banned deucer.
I'll be taking all Three pokes this time. Lord Conductor

Rhyperior @ Expert Belt
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Moonlight
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Psychic

Zoroark @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Brave Bird
- U-turn

Celebi @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch

Sharpedo @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang
- Protect
 
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Hard body + Soft touch

Research into Cresselia and Rhyperior in the Oras UU metagame
January 2015


Previous tests:
Initial interests lay with CM cress, and WP rhyp
both pretty cool sets with CM cress being super effective win condition (either with moonlight or sub)

Subject I (Rhyperior) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 212 HP / 212 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature

- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Ice Punch

Subject II (Cresselia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature

- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Psyshock
- Magic Coat


Replays


Ultimatly I was only able to peak 1300s with my initial test spreads and sets, it was only when I got off my ass and built proper structure/team chemistry that I began to see better results.


the team/final sets, probably what i had the most success with)

Subject I (Rhyperior) @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Ice Punch

4 attack rhyp is pretty cool guy!
Could've used rocks instead of T-punch, could've used stone edge or other more reliable stab. Overall just a bulky Flying counter, eats any flying attack up! And lives stuff like drain punch of toxi (easily).


Subject II (Cresselia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Psycho Shift
- Calm Mind

Just a little twist on the tried and true set of setup cress. Psycho shift is niche and doesn't work, i just wanted to be different! Confirmed bad set! :) but still can clean up late game.

Other mons
Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Foul Play
- Heal Bell

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
- Spikes
- Drain Punch

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball


My final analysis on each Pokémon:


Rhyperior:
It seems to be agreed that the special defensive set remains to be the most useful set. This is because of its immense bulk a arguably great typing. But I have found that the physically defensive, bulky attacker set also able to tank a variety of powerful physical attacks, utilising solid rock to act as a poor mans Mega Aggron and returning powerful stab and SE attacks.

Cresselia:
It can be a very strong wall breaker/win condition, acting similarly to that of Reuniclus, with early game synergy through its pure bulk and typing/ability (ground immunity). Between Cresselia and Rhyperior, physical punishers will have a hard time breaking without sacrificing themselves. Still cress has many faults, its 4MSS hinders its ability to sweep as effectively. Also knock off decimates it.

Overall these pokemons are deserving of more use, they aren't perfect fits for each other, but with the right team and the right structure they can certainly create problems.
[/hyde]
 
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In,
Alt: Flashsearch Week
Using: Zoroark
(First time doing this sorry if I mess up, looks to be fun though, can't wait to post my findings!!)
 
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Kink

it's a thug life ¨̮
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Just wanted to step in and say that I'd like to see people avoid using Special Defensive Rhyperior, as EVERYONE uses it and it's boring as fuck. We know that Spec D rhyperior has viability. We want to see creative and opportunistic sets that should receive their time to shine. Explore your options!
 

mael

not the same but equal
is a Community Contributorwon the 14th Official Smogon Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
UUPL Champion
Sdef Rhyperior is the most viable set and the best way to go in most cases. You can change up the moves a little bit. Now that Mega Diancie is a thing, Bronzong will see Usage again, so you might try and use Smack Down on the last moveslot, but that is situational and means you lose either Stone Edge, Protect or Roar. Another option it Fire Punch, which also allows you to hit Forry, but again, it hits 2 Pokemon and leaves you without phazing move and without a way to get passive recovery and scout moves.

What I'm trying to say is, there is very little reason to use any other set than the classic Sdef Wall, because it is the best and there is close to no other role it can fit and no other niche. I personally will be using CB and Resttalk. The only other sets that imo have a legitimate reason to be used. CB hits like a truck while still having decent bulk to beat certain threats. Resttalk is pretty much the same like the classic sdef set with a little more longevity but tbh, I think sdef Protect is better, but I'll try it regardless.

I'm also thinking about using passho berry, to be able to check Mega Aero better, but that again is so situational and lefties, classic sdef is better 90% of the time.
 
Well .. I think that Rhyperior@RockPolish might have a chance to shine in this meta ( No Sableye , no Zygarde , great hazards users and knockoff users) .
I'll play him like this . Let's see how he does .
 

mael

not the same but equal
is a Community Contributorwon the 14th Official Smogon Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
UUPL Champion
The problem with Rock Polish Rhyperior is that it is so incredibly slow, even with +2 you have to run Jolly to be faster than base 115 Pokemon, which leaves you so much weaker than adamant. It could possibly be good, prove me wrong, but I don't see it being any more useful than the common sdef set, the cb set or any other set really. I'd actually use swords dance if I were to use a boosting move, because that can at least threaten slower stall teams.

I am actually thinking about using a sub + 3atks set with max attack and adamant, I haven't tested resttalk yet though. What do you think about sub +3 atks?
 

Kink

it's a thug life ¨̮
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
The problem with Rock Polish Rhyperior is that it is so incredibly slow, even with +2 you have to run Jolly to be faster than base 115 Pokemon, which leaves you so much weaker than adamant. It could possibly be good, prove me wrong, but I don't see it being any more useful than the common sdef set, the cb set or any other set really. I'd actually use swords dance if I were to use a boosting move, because that can at least threaten slower stall teams.

I am actually thinking about using a sub + 3atks set with max attack and adamant, I haven't tested resttalk yet though. What do you think about sub +3 atks?
I hear you in regards to your complaints towards not using the classic SpD set. However, I can think of 2-3 sets from the top of my head that could find (somewhat niche) viability, especially when combined with the other RW mons.

Trick Room Life Orb being one of those sets, mind you.

Anyways, you'll do fine! Good luck!
 
Why is this Research weak soo guud,Also why Lochie didn`t retest Staraptor so I would be able to slap a perior on all my teams QQ

Anyway tanking up a Pursuit Zoroark and maybe my "Why aren`t you Sub CM" Cress if I can fit it with Zoro
Alt:BrockMagician
 
The problem with Rock Polish Rhyperior is that it is so incredibly slow, even with +2 you have to run Jolly to be faster than base 115 Pokemon, which leaves you so much weaker than adamant. It could possibly be good, prove me wrong, but I don't see it being any more useful than the common sdef set, the cb set or any other set really. I'd actually use swords dance if I were to use a boosting move, because that can at least threaten slower stall teams.

I am actually thinking about using a sub + 3atks set with max attack and adamant, I haven't tested resttalk yet though. What do you think about sub +3 atks?
I started to play with and ... He is doing fine to be honest . Do a good early game , weakening ennemy's defenses , then bring your WallBreaker to weaken even more his defenses , and then Rhyperior to clean up . This game plan is simple but it works atm . I think , he just needs the rights team mates . Hazards are a must have i think( Spikes+SR) .
But yeah i'm running Rhyperior@Jolly , but i feel like he doesn't need the Adamant nature to get 2hkos on walls. The Life Orb is enough to make huge damages . I might try Weakeness Policy on him too.
 

Lucipurrr

Banned deucer.
I started to play with and ... He is doing fine to be honest . Do a good early game , weakening ennemy's defenses , then bring your WallBreaker to weaken even more his defenses , and then Rhyperior to clean up . This game plan is simple but it works atm . I think , he just needs the rights team mates . Hazards are a must have i think( Spikes+SR) .
But yeah i'm running Rhyperior@Jolly , but i feel like he doesn't need the Adamant nature to get 2hkos on walls. The Life Orb is enough to make huge damages . I might try Weakeness Policy on him too.
What Spread are you running btw? I was running Max Def/SpD For lelss and it was working pretty well. I'm going to switch to Weakness Policy and see how that works in combination wiht Rock Polish.
 
I happened to get a pretty good replay of displaying Zoro's power and its ability to deceive and proceed to setup. This guy probably wasn't the best player, but it was my first match with the team so I decided to post it. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-200348377
Edit: Got bored and decided to do some calcs comparing Zoro's power at +2 to Mega Absol at +2 and was pleasantly surprised (Calcs assume no hazards).
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Zoroark Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 200 HP / 252 Def Vaporeon: 382-450 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 200 HP / 252 Def Vaporeon: 379-447 (84 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Anyone think that SD Zoro might be viable considering it hits just as hard as Mega-Absol? Sure its speed tier is worse but I don't think 105 is THAT bad, also has the benefit of freeing up your mega slot if you don't wish to use it on Absol.
 
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What Spread are you running btw? I was running Max Def/SpD For lelss and it was working pretty well. I'm going to switch to Weakness Policy and see how that works in combination wiht Rock Polish.
I didnt work on the spread yet , i need to do some calcs on how much i take from effectives hits and how much i do after weakness policy is activated . I'll post my spread soon :] .
 

mael

not the same but equal
is a Community Contributorwon the 14th Official Smogon Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
UUPL Champion
I started to play with and ... He is doing fine to be honest . Do a good early game , weakening ennemy's defenses , then bring your WallBreaker to weaken even more his defenses , and then Rhyperior to clean up . This game plan is simple but it works atm . I think , he just needs the rights team mates . Hazards are a must have i think( Spikes+SR) .
But yeah i'm running Rhyperior@Jolly , but i feel like he doesn't need the Adamant nature to get 2hkos on walls. The Life Orb is enough to make huge damages . I might try Weakeness Policy on him too.

The Problem is that when you use LO you really have very little longevity. You take whatever hit, while setting up, then you lose health while attacking. Imo the biggest advantage of Rhyperior is, that t is harder to revenge kill, and LO takes that away, by lowering it health. You have to keep in mind it's physical bulk is good without investment, might as well take advantage of that.

And yea, every sweeper appreciates spikes. Can you provide some logs where rock polish Rhyperior does work?


SD Zoro is cool, really, but it's so hard to get a set up opportunity, really. I've used it a million Times and I prefer black glasses > LO. Sure that leaves you weaker, but you can actually sweep lategame instead of dying to LO, after taking 200% from every pitifully weak hit. But yea, SD is cool.
 
I will try out black glasses thanks! I've personally been using low kick in the last slot, what do you use?
 
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