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Rhydon [QC 1/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Malkyrian, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

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    Note: New World Order is taking over Rhydon, as noted here. For this reason, unless I have reason to believe that New World Order is not up to the task, I will not be making any edits to this thread after this point.

    QC Check: Honko

    [Overview]

    • Rock/Ground typing gives Rhydon some very useful resistances and a great dual STAB
    • 130 base Attack, among the best in RU
    • physical defensive stats of 105/120 with Eviolite make Rhydon very hard to break outside of its two 4X weaknesses
    • low special defense, though Eviolite and 105 HP somewhat mitigate this
    • base 40 speed is its biggest drawback
    • no useful abilities
    • aim for the horn
    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge/Rock Blast
    move 4: Megahorn
    item: Eviolite
    nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Can easily force out many common opponents with its defenses and resistances, in particular any Entei that lacks HP Grass (or is locked into a different move) and most variants of Honchkrow
    • Substitute discourages the switch-in from setting up and eases prediction
    • Easily wears down defensive Pokemon, especially those that rely on status
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Can be made more suited for a defensive team by using Stealth Rock over Substitute, and possibly Dragon Tail over Megahorn
    • Speed EVs allow for outspeeding neutral 0 Speed base 70s
    • A bulkier stat spread is also possible for this set: 212 HP/252 Atk/44 SpD allows for 101 HP Substitutes and generally improves Rhydon's bulk, though it loses more easily to slower things like Tangrowth
    • Scyther resists the Fighting/Ground/Grass attacks aimed at Rhydon, who in turn takes the Fire/Rock/Electric/Flying attacks aimed at Scyther, making them excellent partners
    • This same synergy lends itself very well to Ninjask as a partner; it should be noted here that this set makes an amazing Baton Pass receiver
    • Qwilfish also makes a great partner, taking Water/Ice/Fighting/Steel attacks and absorbing Toxic Spikes
    [SET]
    name: Rock Polish
    move 1: Rock Polish
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge/Rock Blast
    move 4: Megahorn/Swords Dance
    item: Life Orb/Eviolite
    nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Alleviates Rhydon's speed issues, probably its biggest weakness
    • Outspeeds max speed Jolly Scolipede and everything below after a Rock Polish when using Adamant; when using Jolly, outspeeds Adamant Scarf base 80s such as Medicham and Braviary
    • Megahorn is preferred to hit Claydol, though a +2 +2 Rhydon can be utterly terrifying
    • Fears super-effective priority and faster Scarf users, such as Primeape, especially if using Life Orb
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Jolly should only be used if one is worried about Sceptile, as it is the main thing that can realistically outspeed and KO Adamant Rhydon but not Jolly Rhydon; otherwise the power boost takes precedence
    • Hazard support is extremely helpful if not outright vital for this set, so having teammates who can set it up is a great boon
    • Honchkrow is recommended as a partner, since it can easily handle a good deal of the opponents threatening this set, and the two have decent synergy to begin with
    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Rock Blast/Stone Edge
    move 3: Megahorn
    move 4: Ice Punch/Double-Edge
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Tremendous initial power at the cost of bulk
    • Unlike above sets, good prediction is necessary
    • Rock Blast is preferred to break Subs and because this Rhydon really hates a miss
    • Ice Punch allows Rhydon to OHKO max defense Impish Eviolite Gligar after Stealth Rock, making this set a fantastic lure, and is therefore preferred in the fourth slot
    • Reckless Double-Edge has power almost as high as STAB Earthquake and good neutral coverage, but Reckless is illegal with Ice Punch
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Superpower can also be used to OHKO Munchlax, or Fire Punch to OHKO Ferroseed, though the listed moves can wear them down easily enough
    • Speed EVs allow this Rhydon to outspeed base 71 or lower Pokemon that don't invest in Speed; while catching a Honchkrow this way is almost unheard of, a few notable targets fairly likely to be caught napping are Mantine, Lanturn, Poliwrath, and Magneton
    • Hazard support is useful for this set; Stealth Rock will often suffice
    • Since Rhydon will be taking quite a few hits without Eviolite backing it up, Wish support is enormously helpful; Alomomola works well in this role
    • Mantine partners excellently with this set, laughing at Water and Ground while not taking much from Fighting and Steel, and it can dissect any Omastar attempting to set up on Rhydon
    • A partner to absorb Sleep is highly recommended by virtue of this set often luring in Lilligant; Insomnia Honchkrow works well, especially with its Grass resistance
    [Other Options]
    • Dragon Tail for phazing
    • Rock Slide, if neither Stone Edge nor Rock Blast is appealing
    • Fire Punch, if Ferroseed is a huge threat
    [Checks and Counters]

    • Quagsire sets up in Rhydon's face and laughs off anything Rhydon can throw at it
    • Gligar and Sandslash can break Rhydon's substitutes with Earthquake, tank its hits, and kill it off with Toxic; however, Gligar must watch out for Ice Punch on the Choice Band set, while Sandslash lacks recovery and so can be worn down
    • Tangrowth needs to watch out for Megahorn and is outsped by even non-Rock Polish Rhydon, but can KO with Giga Drain
    • Max defense RestTalk Poliwrath with Leftovers is not 2HKOed by Earthquake unless Rhydon carries Choice Band, and can beat Rhydon with Waterfall
    • Bulky Ghosts such as Dusknoir and Cofagrigus can tank hits from Rhydon, and burn if it lacks Substitute
    • Claydol can outspeed and deal heavy damage with Earth Power or neutralize Rhydon with Reflect, but needs to watch out for Megahorn
    • Rhydon hates being poisoned; Toxic Spikes support seriously kills Rhydon's longevity, especially on the Substitute set
  2. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    personally i think choice band should get a set, since the immediate power is very desirable on something sluggish but tankish like rhydon. Also LO should be the main slash on the RPer, since rhydon needs the extra power, especially when jolly
  3. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

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    Okay, I played around with a Choice Band set a little. Often set-up bait, but I think the damage does merit its own set, so I added it. It's still fairly tentative and largely based on a relatively small amount of personal experience, though.

    Also, thanks for the catch on the Rock Polish set. That's what happens when I copypasta from the Substitute set, I guess.

    EDIT: Added what was suggested below as well. I kinda forgot that Claydol got dual screens.
  4. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Claydol also makes a good check to any set without Megahorn, and even then, Dual Screen Claydol kinda stops it from doing much. Tangrowth is also a solid check, as it isn't 2HKOed by Megahorn without a Life Orb or Choice Band boost.
  5. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    What are the 64 SpD Evs doing exactly, particularly on the CB set? If they aren't doing anything just move them to Speed imo

    Also make a mention that the Sub set can easily be made into a simple Tank set with Stealth Rock over Substitute in AC.
  6. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

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    Made various fixes across the board. I apologize for being less vigilant about this analysis than I should have been; part of that was getting sick and thus not able to competently playtest, but that doesn't account for all of it.

    Most of the fixes implemented were done on the 17th and so were playtested; the only exception is the EV spread on the Substitute set, which I intend to playtest as soon as my head clears up. In the meantime, I'd appreciate feedback on what I have so far.
  7. Honko

    Honko
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    The comments on the Sub set say it outruns base 60s, but it actually beats base 70s and down including Lanturn and Roselia, which is a good thing. But in AC of that set you should mention a bulkier spread of 212 HP / 252 Atk / 40 SpD. This lets you make 101 HP subs, makes Honchkrow's Superpower almost never 2HKO, and just generally takes random attacks better, but things like Tangrowth and Weezing beat you a lot easier.

    Slash Adamant on the Rock Polish set, since there isn't that much extra it outspeeds with Jolly. I think most Scarf base 80s run Jolly instead of Adamant, and the only other things you need Jolly for are Timid Sceptile and Scarf Glaceon (things like Swellow don't count since you beat them even if you're slower). So basically if you're worried about Sceptile, run Jolly, otherwise run Adamant.

    Everything else looks good.

    QC APPROVED 1/3
  8. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    NWO has taken this over

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