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Riolu (Little Cup Analysis)'

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by SkullCandy, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
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    Status: Proof read/Grammar check
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    [Overview]
    <p> Although Riolu may lack the ability to switch in to common attacks as well as other Little Cup sweepers he makes up for it by having excellent coverage moves, good Attack and Speed stats, and the ability to switch into Rock-, Bug-, and Dark-type attacks with relative ease and set up. Riolu also has the advantage over other Agility sweepers, due to the fact that with only three moves Riolu can hit nearly every common wall in Little Cup for super effective damage. Riolu is a great choice for any team in need of a strong late game cleaner.


    [Set]
    name: Agility
    move 1: Agility
    move 2: Crunch
    move 3: Hi Jump Kick
    move 4: Ice Punch
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe / 196 Atk
    nature: Adamant
    ivs: HP 0

    [Set Comments]
    <p> This is one of Riolu’s best sets in Little Cup, and plays much in the same fashion as his older brother Lucario. After a single Agility Riolu reaches a Speed of 30 out speeding almost every single Pokémon in Little Cup whether they are wearing a Choice Scarf or not. The only exceptions being Choice Scarf; Diglett, Voltorb and Elekid, The former two are never seen with such an item and Elekid only very rarely. Agility is obviously the crux of this set allowing Riolu to outrun many Pokémon who could usually KO Riolu before it has a chance to move. Crunch is used to hit the myriad of Ghost-types in LC, hitting all of them for a swift 2HKO at least. The only Ghosts who stand a chance at surviving a Crunch from Riolu are Drifloon and Duskull and even they need to invest heavily in Defense and HP to do so. Unfortunately Close Combat is not available to Riolu and therefore Riolu has to be content with Hi Jump Kick. However Hi Jump Kick has all the power Riolu needs, doing a minimum of 52% to 220/228 Bronzor, who is often considered to be the best physical wall in Little Cup. Ice Punch hits Gligar for a clean OHKO and also helps against the likes of Phanpy, Hippopotas, Bulbasaur, Chikorita and Dratini amongst others. Thunder Punch may be used to hit Mantyke and Totodile but it is generally an inferior option due to the lack of coverage against common Little Cup walls. </p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p> The Ev’s allow Riolu to outspeed all non-scarfed and scarfed Pokemon in Little Cup barring scarfed Diglett, Voltorb and Elekid. The next step is to max out the Attack stat as Riolu really needs the extra boost in power to achieve certain KO’s. 36 Ev’s in both defensive stats give Riolu an extra point in each, whereas the HP stat is dropped to 19 (by making Riolu’s HP IV 0). This means that Riolu will lose one when less HP every turn in recoil whilst holding Life Orb (1 instead of 2). </p>

    <p>Agility Riolu has a hard time sweeping early game due to most walls on the opponents team still carrying Oran Berry, meaning that Riolu will only be able to 3HKO Pokemon he would usually be able to 2HKO. Riolu most also be wary of certain priority moves. Whilst he will take relatively low damage from Sucker Punch, moves like Vacuum Wave and Quick Attack may put a premature end to Riolu’s sweep if his HP has dropped low enough. Bulky Ghost types can often switch in whilst Riolu uses Agility, not get OHKO’ed by Crunch and then proceed to cripple Riolu with Will-o-Wisp. </P>

    <p>Zen Headbutt may be used in the last slot to deal with Croagunk and deal more damage to Gastly than Crunch, the former is problematic for this set as it resists Hi Jump Kick and takes relatively little damage from Crunch and Ice Punch. This is not a great option though as Riolu really needs to be able to OHKO Gligar, on top of the many other Little Cup walls who are weak to Ice.


    [Set]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Crunch
    move 3: Hi Jump Kick
    move 4: Ice Punch/Quick Attack/Bullet Punch
    item: Focus Sash/Life Orb
    evs: 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe / 196 Atk
    nature: Adamant
    ivs: HP 0

    [Set Comments]
    <p>Although this set may be very similair in terms of moves, they function in different ways. Whereas the former attempts to finish off the opponents teams late game when most Pokemon are weakened, this set should be used as a way to muscle passed most common walls in Little Cuo with ease. Swords Dance is the core of the set, boosting Riolu's already decent Attack stat to monstruos levels. Hi Jump Kick has good power and decent enough accuracy, making it the primary choice for STAB on all Riolu sets. Crunch gives Riolu almost perfect coverage alongside Hi Jump Kick, OHKO'ing every Ghost-type in Little Cup regardless of Defense investement. The final slot is slightly more problematic however. Ice Punch nails andy Gligar attempting to switch in, as well as netting KO's on many bulky Grass-; and Ground-type Pokemon in Little Cup. It should be noted however that Ice Punch is useless against Gligar once it has switched in as, even without a boosting item or Attack ev's, Earthquake will always KO. The Swords Dance + priority combo is not one that is widely available in Little Cup, and Riolu is one its best uses. Quick Attack nearly always 2HKO'ing Croagunk before it can try and KO with Vacuum Wave. Bullet Punch is often the superior option, however, as no pokemon is immune to it, and it hits Rock-types for Super Effective damage.. Focus Sash is a great item on Riolu because it allows him to fare well against offense as well as stall, Life Orb can be used because it enables Riolu to always OHKO Bronzor after a Swords Dance. To show how much of a monster Riolu is against common Little Cup walls, here are some damage calcs. </p>

    Damage Calcs:
    All calcs are assuming an Adamant nature, and that Riolu has Swords Danced once.

    With Life Orb:
    Hi Jump Kick vs 220/228+ Bronzor 100%
    Crunch vs 196/196+ Duskull 100%
    Crunch vs 196/244+ Drifloon 100%
    Ice Punch vs 212/212+ Hippopotas 100%
    Ice Punch vs 196/196+ Phanpy 100%

    With Focus Sash:
    Hi Jump Kick vs 220/228+ Bronzor 76-96%
    Crunch vs 196/196+ Duskull 100%
    Crunch vs 196/244+ Drifloon 100%
    Ice Punch vs 212/212+ Hippopotas 84.6-100%
    Ice Punch vs 196/196+ Phanpy 78.6-100%

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>With the given ev’s Riolu is able to dish out as much damage as possible KO’ing anything that switches in to the wrong move. 196 Speed ev’s hit 15 speed enabling Riolu to outspeed things like Croagunk, Totodile and Machop. An Adamant nature is needed to always OHKO Bronzor with Hi Jump Kick and Hippopotas with Ice Punch, after a Swords Dance. Again the HP stat is set to 19, reducing the amount of recoil damage from Life Orb by 1. When using Focus Sash, it is recommended to bump Riolu's HP ev up to 31 allowing to take certain weak neutral and Not Very Effective attacks more easily.</p>

    <p>Although Swords Dance Riolu possesses enormous power and almost nothing in Little Cup can afford to switch in on the wrong move, it does have it does have its fair share of problems with fast Pokemon who switch in after Riolu has KO’ed something, or those who have strong priority attacks and powerful Pokemon with Focus Sash. </p>

    <p>Thunder Punch is a decent option in the last slot to KO Mantyke and other Water-types without having to resort to Hi Jump Kick, but it is generally worse than Ice Punch as you lose the ability to get passed most bulky Grass;- and Ground-types. </p>



    [Set]
    Name: Lead-Lu
    Move 1: Hi Jump Kick
    Move 2: Bullet Punch
    Move 3: Crunch
    Move 4: Counter
    Item: Focus Sash
    EV's: 36 SpD / 196 Spe / 196 Atk
    Ability: Inner Focus
    Nature: Adamant

    [Set Comments]
    <p>Thanks to Inner Focus granting it immunity from flinching, Riolu makes for a lead who is capable of eliminating many common Leads in Little Cup. A combination of Hi Jump Kick and Bullet Punch KO Snover, Machop and Kabuto,whereas Crunch is there to hit Drifloon and Gastly. Counter is a great move on Riolu due to it’s low Defense stat. Most leads who Riolu cannot beat with only its attacking moves are taking care of by Counter such as Meowth, Aipom, Mankey and Gligar. Meowth and Aipom both do minimum 50% with Fake Out meaning that you can Counter them for the KO. Also Close Combat and Earthquake leave Riolu with only 1 HP thanks to Focus Sash so Counter gets rid of the latter two as well. </p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>196 in both Speed and Attack maximise Riolu’s and the EV’s in Special Defense give Riolu an extra point. It is not needed to lower Riolu’s Defense any further as it will usually take over 50% from any neutral hit meaning that Counter will almost always KO the attaking Pokemon.</p>

    <p>The most difficulty leads for Riolu to face are Scarf Snover (as it will KO with a combination of Blizzard and hail damage) as well as most bulky Special Attackers. Also Riolu loses to other faster leads who sport priority, like Diglett.</p>

    <p>Riolu can run Quick Attack in place of Bullet Punch to hit Water-; Fire-; and Electric-type leads like Chimchar or Chinchou harder but these are few, therefore it is generally a lesser option.</p>

    [Team Options]
    <p> Riolu's number one team mate is Wynaut. Much like how Wobuffet is essential if one is going to use Lucario in Ubers, Wynaut's ability to allow Riolu to set up is invaluable. Wynaut can switch in to Pokemon such as Bronzor and encore any move (barring Reflect or Psychic) and allowing Riolu to set up freely. An Encored Croagunk or Machop (not locked into Dynamic Punch or Ice Punch) are great news to Riolu, as it isn’t getting ko’ed by any of their other attacks any time soon. Due to Riolu’s resistance to Dark and the ability to set up on attacks such as Pursuit, it is recommended to use a Pokemon who draws these kinds of attacks. Gastly makes a great team mate as it can switch into many Ghost types attempting to burn Riolu and KO them with Shadow Ball. Gastly is also able to cripple Bronzor with Trick (whilst Gastly is holding a Choice Scarf) thus getting rid of its Oran berry meaning that Riolu can safely 2HKO it. In return Riolu resists Dark-type attacks aimed at Gastly and is able to get past Munchlax with STAB Hi Jump Kick. Because of Riolu’s frailty it is advised to only try and set up late game, after the opponent’s team has been weakened and Riolu’s counters are weakened or dead. This is needed because Riolu will rarely survive more than 2 or 3 attacks before fainting even from relatively weak walls. Riolu also greatly appreciates Stealth Rock support on the Swords Dance set (when using a Jolly nature) as the extra damage ensures that Riolu can OHKO Hippopotas and Bronzor after Swords Dance. Agility Riolu has a great deal of problems when facing bulky stallish teams due to to the relatively low power of its unboosted attacks. Therefore it is recommended to use a wall-breaker on your team. Both Houndoor and Elekid fair well against common Little Cup walls and are are good choices, being able to take out Bronzor and Mantyke, who Riolu has trouble with. Munchlax is a great team mate for Riolu due to its ability to trap and destroy common Ghost-types with Pursuit. Like wise, Swords Dance Riolu will have a field day against stall, however it won't be anywhere near as useful against offensive teams, who run fast Pokemon capable of KO'ing Riolu before it can move. Pokemon like Magby and Gastly do well against offensive teams, and Diglett deserves special mention as it can trap and KO any Pokemon who may ruin Riolu's sweep. </p>

    [Optional Changes]
    <p>Rock Slide, Blaze Kick and Earthquake are all decent enough options on Riolu allowing Riolu to easily KO Pokemon such as Mantyke, Pineco and Croagunk with greater ease. However many of these moves have redundant coverage with Riolu’s STAB options and Rock Slide has low base power meaning that a Super Effective Rock Slide will hit just as hard as a neutral Hi Jump Kick, only with slightly greater accuracy. Force Palm or Brick Break may be used over Hi Jump Kick as they both have perfect accuracy as well as useful side effects. However this is not recommended on the Swords Dance set due to missing out on the OHKO on Bronzor. Riolu may use a Jolly nature allowing Riolu to out speed every single unboosted Pokemon in Little Cup after and Agility regardless of whether they are holding a Choice Scarf. This should be considered a lesser option to Adamant though because the lack of power will really be noticed and the only relatively common Pokemon in Little Cup that can tie with Riolu after an Agility is Scarf Elekid. Also Riolu will not always be able to 2HKO Bronzor with Hi Jump Kick, or Hippopotas and Phanpy with Ice Punch, or OHKO after a Swords Dance. Riolu can run a Choice Scarf set but this is generally done better by Machop and Mankey. </p>


    [Counters]
    <p>Agility Riolu has huge problems with bulky ghost types with Will-o-Wisp as well as Bronzor. Drifloon and Duskull are good examples of Pokemon who can safely counter Agility Riolu whilst holding Oran Berry. They can switch into any move Riolu uses (including Crunch due to Oran Berry) and then cripple any chances of Riolu sweeping by burning him. Bronzor can switch in and at worst 2HKO with Psychic even with no EV investment. Whilst they may not be counter, Pokemon who can use strong priority attacks such as Dratini with ExtremeSpeed or Totodile with Aqua Jet are able to KO Riolu no matter how many times it has used Agility. Swords Dance Riolu is very easily revenge killed, and due to it not being able to out speed many foes, its frailty is even more of a problem. If for some reason Riolu is not using Ice Punch bulky ground types such as Phanpy, Hippopotas and especially Gligar can decimate Riolu with powerful STAB Earthquake’s. Riolu must be very careful of status, most prominently Paralysis or Burn, therefore Pokémon with decent bulk who can spread paralysis such as Chinchou are very useful when countering Riolu. </p>
  2. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    This has to be posted in Quality Control, not here.
  3. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    Is a double dance set viable? It seems like with just agility it's too easily walled and killed, and too slow with only swords dance. Additionally, maybe a scarf set? Though Mankey and Machop do this better... It looks like Riolu might be able to switch in on munchy and use a fairly effective sub punch set (crunch/ice punch for coverage). Hits harder than HJK. As far as STAB options go, sky uppercut has only 5 less power but you don't hurt yourself on misses. Cross chop is more powerful. Both of these should be mentioned, if not slashed.

    Change the ev spreads to the actual ev spreads, not 252/252. It's lazy and it looks bad imo.

    Quick attack/bullet punch need to be mentioned along with the swords Dance set, outside of a second option. The ability to run swords dance + priority is one of the things that a lot of other lc pokes can't say, and would greatly help it's sweeping.

    Looks like a good start, but needs some work.
  4. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Moving to qc
  5. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
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    Edit: Done

    (HJK has 100 BP) The reason why Sky Uppercut and Cross Chop weren't mentioned was because the former is far less powerful whilst still having 90 acuracy and the latter has really too low accuracy to be counted on as the main STAB option. Am working on Double Dance set, but I am not sure how viable Swords Dance priority is. It would decimate most offensive teams but really struggles agaisnt LC staples like Gligar, Mantyke and most Ghosts (barring Gastly). Also neither Bullet Punch nor Quick Attack receive STAB boosts making them quite weak and only hitting as hard as a neutral Crunch after a Swords Dance. I will do the SubPunch set after the Double Dance.
  6. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    Brick break should get a mention in OO because it can break screens commonly set up by the likes of bronzor and co.
  7. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
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    EDIT: Done
  8. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Couple things:

    1. I really dislike Agility-Swords Dance. It's near impossible to set up one, so having both on the same set just to sacrifice coverage is pretty weak.

    2. You should mention specifically that the SD set will only really be successful against stall (unless their main fighting counter is a wall). Otherwise, your just better off firing high-powered LO attacks.

    3. The above point with Agility, but for against offensive teams.

    4. Where is the lead set?

    5. Where is the Scarf set?
  9. Despotar

    Despotar

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    Also, I would add Quick Atack to OP instead of a slash (for SD set.)
    Also, double dance kinda sucks. Riolu's so frail that it won't be able to dance twice. They'll switch to a counter, you'll have to atack or die. just a waste of a move.
  10. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
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    Edit: Have removed Agili-Dance set and added the Lead set. The mentions on the Agility and Swords Dance sets are done. I question the usefulness of the Scarf set as surely Mankey (Close Combat, U-Turn, higher Attack and Speed) and Machop (DynamicPunch, bulkier) do this better?
  11. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    Gah, I wish Riolu had Extremespeed. Then, he would have a method of taking on all of the priority users in Little Cup. Oh well...
  12. franky

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    i'd probably oppose to the idea of adding a choice scarf set due to its obvious ineffective use for revenge killing - high jump kick is a terrible stab attack to use blindly considering its side effects. i'd seriously use scarf mankey for a scarf fighting-type since there is absolutely nothing appealing riolu can boast about bar stronger and reliable dark move to deal with duskull solely.

    the swords dance set actually works wonders in tandem with focus sash if stealth rock is kept away from the field. riolu's low speed is probably the biggest turn off for a swords dance sweeper and focus sash will help it survive hits from common switch-ins such as gastly and gligar to name a few. the focus sash will hold its weight against offensive teams and defensive teams, which is why i like it! a swords dancing fighting-type is rare in lc and focus sash seems like a perfectly viable item.
  13. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I was just going over this rule in the UU QC forum. If a Pokemon is outclassed by another Pokemon, it does not mean shit if that set is still good. It's also hard to find a set that's 100% purely outclassed and would never be used by anyone.

    For example, a Scarf set could look like this:

    Riolu (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 36 HP/196 Atk/36 Def/196 Spd/36 SDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Cross Chop
    - Ice Punch
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Crunch
    ---

    Advantages over Mankey:

    1. Zen Headbutt for Croagunk, Grimer, and Gastly.
    2. Crunch hits Duskull and Drifloon harder than Payback. As in Riolu can actually revenge kill them unlike Mankey.
    3. It isn't fucked over by Priority Gunk because it's immune to Fake Out's flinch.

    I think it's worth a set, disregarding Mankey and Machop.
  14. franky

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    i am fully aware of the uu qc situation, but i guess that's beside the point because crunch and zen headbutt is still not going to convince me to use this over mankey. however, point taken cause' those two moves are actually solid enough to get its own set (if we are looking at the set and the set only).
  15. Sledge

    Sledge

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    i used to use a lead riolu that work very well not sure if it's worth a set though. It's explained in detail in this post.
  16. SkullCandy

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    Yeah come to think of it Focus Sash does seem like it would work well due to Stealth Rock being quite easy to keep off the field.

    Edit: Made Focus Sash main choice on the Swords Dance set. Does seem a pity that you can't always OHKO Bronzor with HJK, but you can't have anything...
  17. Dracoyoshi8

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    With the Swords Dance set, replace Quick Attack, slash Bullet Punch next to Quick Attack. Nothing is immune to Bullet Punch, so Ghost-types can switch in, and it helps deal with Scarf Snover and Scarf Cranidos (although this one's kinda rare) better than Quick Attack. Choice Scarf needs to be added. Choice Scarf Fighting-types are great in Little Cup, with Mankey and Machop being perfect proof of this, and Riolu is no exception. Hell, if Croagunk didn't have the option to use more priority than you could shake a stick at, it'd probably be used as a Scarfer too. And, at least on the Agility and Choice Scarf sets, slash Brick Break next to Hi-Jump Kick. Aside from being more reliable and not having that terrifying recoil, being able to destroy screens can be extremely helpful for attackers who aren't boosting their Attack. You may want to consider it on the Lead set even, again for reliability, but also against the rare Dual Screen lead.
  18. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    No this is not what we should be thinking when adding sets into an analysis. Is the set good or not? That's it. Don't think about it vs other Pokemon, just the set itself.
  19. doominic77

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    I found 1 problem with your analysis.

    Lol, I don't think Abomasnow is LC (I think you mean Snover).
  20. SkullCandy

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    Hey guys thanks for all the feedback, I really appreciate it. You have all been really posistive and grealty helped the analysis. I will be in boarding school for the next year therefore I can only access Smogon on my phone. I do have weekends every two to three weeks but this does mean I will be less active I than I wish. I can do minor edits like spelling or grammar but will be unable to post any new sets or do big revamps until the 24 of September.
    Sorry for the inconveniance but I really can't do anything about it. Hope that's ok!
  21. Kannon

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    Why is focus sash even an option on the swords dance set? Unless you're leading with it (don't, it's a terrible lead), focus sash is inferior to life orb since stealth rock is everywhere, viable spinners are rare outside of stall, and life orb gives you more power at the expense of bulkiness, which riolu has virtually zero of anyways.
  22. franky

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    yeah as on overall thought though, i would never use rioulu over mankey but i already know that we should focus on the set viable alone. mankey over this though just saying.
  23. SkullCandy

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    The main reason that Focus Sash is an option is due to the fact that without it, Riolu will almost never be able to stand up against offensive teams because it is so easily revenge killed. It is relatively easy to keep SR off the field in Little Cup because not that many teams use SR and leads such as Machop, Aipom/Meowth and Snover stop it from even being set up. Life Orb is an option because without it, Riolu will have a (slightly) harder time dealing with stall.


    Edit: When I get the Scarf set up (after a little more feedback) would we be able start gramma checking this and stamping it?
  24. Kannon

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    The first bold point strikes me as poor judgment on your part, as SR is on many teams to ensure kills. (and I'd go as far as to say almost necessary, but that's my opinion.)

    The second bold point is brought up because not all SR pokemon are even leads, so this point is entirely moot. Of note in this point, however, is the fact that you use Snover as an example in an argument for focus sash. I hope you realize Riolu isn't immune to hail? Or do you plan on using a pokemon dedicated to removing your own hail alongside Riolu?

    These fallacies you use as an argument make me doubt your capability to write this analysis and I'm contemplating QC rejecting this analysis and waiting for someone who actually plays Little Cup to write it up. I'm going to give you more time to figure out an actual argument for focus sash outside of a lead position, or to remove it (and possibly let others weigh in on this, as no one else has so much as mentioned it), but it makes me doubt you even play LC, as it looks incredibly theorymonned to me.
  25. Towelie

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    i totally agree with kannon. bronzor is an extremely common mon who sets up sr out of the lead position and your point about snover.... wtf..... another HUGE concern is that you have NOT ONE MENTION OF WYNAUT AS A PARTNER. aside from having good synergy, it's basically the only way riolu can actually attempt to boost... but you have no mention of it? i don't really like the sd set because it's to slow and in a metagame revolved around scarfers, 19 speed mons, and priority, thats basically a recipe for disaster. just my two cents.

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