ORAS OU RMT + Competitive Tutoring teambuilding workshop

Status
Not open for further replies.

IronBullet

Astronomy Domine
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Top Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Hello! For the past few weeks the Rate My Team and Competitive Tutoring PS rooms have been planning a collaboration, and with all the details hashed out we're finally ready to have our first combined event. This will be an OU teambuilding workshop where members of the RMT and CT auth will build teams using certain predetermined cores for a few hours, and will discuss how to effectively build around them and use them as well as possible. The point of this workshop is two-fold:
  1. It aims to improve the quality of people's rating by working on their ability to identify a team's core and think of suggestions that could make that core as effective as possible.
  2. We also hope that it will help improve people's general teambuilding skills, which is the basic premise of the CT room.
As of now the people running the workshop will decide the cores among themselves and there will not be any public participation unlike the rating workshops, however in the future we will potentially be open to more public involvement as the project develops. We'll have a short feedback session after the workshop for viewers to ask questions or express any opinions and, as we do in the rating workshops, we'll host a tour afterwards for people to test out the built teams if they wish. Future joint workshops will be announced in this thread as usual, I'm only making a new thread now to gain some extra exposure since it's our first one.

The workshop will be held on this Sunday, September 20th, at 11:30 pm EST in the RMT room on PS. It will be hosted by Albacore, Nedor, rob., Snowy., TDK, and Trinitrotoluene. Hope to see you there! For those who can't make it, a log will be saved and edited into this post.
 
here are the teams that were built in the first collaborative ct + rmt workshop:
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 44 HP / 32 Atk / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Rash Nature
- Rock Polish
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Earth Power

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost

Klefki (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Metal Sound
- Flash Cannon

Garchomp (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder Wave
- Pain Split

Altaria (F) @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 160 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Roost

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 60 Def / 100 SpD / 108 Spe
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off

Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Iron Head

Gastrodon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 216 HP / 132 Def / 160 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Curse
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar

Heracross (F) @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Swords Dance

Tyranitar (F) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

Excadrill (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

Skarmory (F) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Scald

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Draco Meteor
- Healing Wish
- Defog
 
i apologize for the double-post, but since most of us hosting dropped out at the end due to exhaustion (it was late for lots of us when we started up the workshop), i'm going to open this thread up for a few days so the general public can comment on the logs and the teams. have at it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TPP
Like I told some CT staff in Skype convo I'll be blunt and say I don't like any of these teams.

Like that first one I jokingly stated it gets rammed by Scarf Excadrill which is kind of humorous but more or less the fact your ground immunities are relying on two mons who aren't actually switch ins to the majority of good grounds or ground viable users, hint hint Sand Rush Exca as one. Also I know people love to laugh about the whole BD Azu speed benchmark on Rotom-W and love to disregard it but I think the laughs kind of die out when you face a Spikes / Adamant Bisharp team that wears down the most chippable mon in the ORAS OU metagame at this point for its necessity to be a physical contact absorber, Garchomp. I would strongly consider an option or mention of hitting speed on Rotom-W for that. Adamant Bisharps rarely run Lum Berry, these are mostly found on Jolly variants, since they necessitate power in their sweeping roles on offense to break through would be checks after Spikes Damage. I think the other stuff looks ok having no Azu switch ins kind of blows, speed on Klefki at least a bit can let it paralyze a BD one in a clutch situation, but hey Azu is a mindless mon anyways n_n.

Bulky teams work ok but I don't like fat teams that rely on this one check to Manaphy to insure it doesn't floor you. I could go on but I think this teams speed control is super poor against more offensive teams, tbh most teams in the meta where the teams defensive synergy isn't always going to be enough. It actually gets extremely worn down with no hazard removal because the lack of speed control isn't able to threaten offensive mons who are thriving on hazards as well such as M-Kazam and Tyranitar. Bulky teams with hazards is ok but when it has issues of being an immediate threat to some of the more anti-hazard mons in the meta I think that's a problem.

I think sand is the most laziest teambuilding concept ever so I'm gonna assume that was the core, cause 95% of the time it is whenever a team is built and it has sand in it lol. In all seriousness if the purpose is to ever try to teach on how to build with sand the one thing you don't do is make a sand team that's demolished by every single M-Kazam build that has consistency or relevancy. It's also counter productive to make a sand build that absolutely is terrible at providing legitimate counterplay to handle relevant waters in the form of Keldeo, Azumarill, Manaphy. Manaphy + Latias isn't a water answer. Having resists to types that fall under a typical role, ie offensive water, defensive steel, isn't the same thing as having counterplay to them, the team is doing the former and should be focusing on the latter. Fat grasses, offensive electrics are things I think most sand teams need which this one doesn't have at all. This teams "fast paced" nature should also provide Manaphy an item such as Sitrus or Lum Berry seeing as how Leftovers is normally found on bulkier builds than rely on longevity. This team isn't one I would call something that has longevity.

Just passing along my message that I gave the CT guys.
 
I can't argue with any of the major issues that you brought up AM, but I think your criticism comes off as a little too harsh when you consider that these three teams were built in a little over two hours. It's impossible to create flawless teams in such a short period; there are just too many threats to take into account and it's only natural that when you're building on the spot there are a couple that will slip your mind. In fact the hosts did build them largely keeping most of the relevant metagame threats in mind, or at least made plenty of effort to do so. This is quite clear from the log as after every suggestion they'd look back and see what weaknesses the added Pokemon created. I agree that some of problems are quite serious, like the lack of reliable switch-ins to Sand Rush Excadrill in the first team, lack of speed control in the second, and the weakness to Mega Zam in the third, so there's definitely scope for improvement and in the future that'll be worked on.

The main motivation behind these workshops though was to give people an idea of how they can build around cores effectively. You can see from the log that there was plenty of quality discussion going on and the hosts consistently brought up good points, came up with clever ideas for teammates for the cores, and generally put in a lot of thought into their suggestions. As I said they also kept most of the relevant metagame threats in mind. Now if the resulting team has some issues, that's fine, as long as people can learn and incorporate at least a few of the concepts from the workshop into their teambuilding. That's the bottom line and if people can take a couple of valuable lessons from the workshop, I'd consider it a success.

Some of the issues you mentioned are also things that are hard to keep in mind when you're building on the spot, like Belly Drum Azu and Manaphy's item, especially when they're relatively irrelevant and can be easily fixed. I also don't think the teams are as weak to some of the threats to the extent you were suggesting. Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't play much OU, but for the second team specially defensive Skarm + Knock Off Mew check Mega Zam pretty well together, while TTar doesn't seem to be much of an issue at all. And for the third team, Manaphy is checked by Latias + fast Manaphy, while physically defensive Skarm + EB Manaphy together check Azu decently. Now I know these aren't definitive counters, but considering the teams were built impromptu, for me the way they handle those threats is quite acceptable when the main focus of the workshop is to brainstorm ideas that people can learn from and take into consideration for their own teambuilding.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that nitpicking weaknesses is not something that should be concentrated on too much because the workshop is more based on ideas and theory, and building a team that is solid against every threat in the metagame is unrealistic to expect considering the very nature of these workshops. Obviously though the teams can't be too weak to common and relevant builds because that could mislead people, so you definitely bring up some good points and a lot of your criticism is justified. Overall I appreciate the feedback man and we'll look to make sure that the hosts of future OU workshops build teams while keeping your points in mind.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top