[RMT] Team Hydro (mono-type team)

[Rane]

I've made substitutions and made changes to a bunch of move-sets. There is still room for improvement however!

TEAM HYDRO at a glance

Team Overview: This team is for use in OU Standard competition with all standard clauses. My strategy is to start out with Floatzel Taunting or buffing then passing off to one of my two physical monsters, swampert or Gyarados, depending on the prediction of Electric or Grass. Swampert also doubles phazing with Roar, and Starmie is assigned Rapid Spin even though hes sporting Choice Scarf (which makes him faster than almost everything, and yes it will take prediction of Ghosts to make the best of this set). Quilfish (YES QUILFISH) can also be on the receiving end of Floatzel's pass, and he has the sole purpose of setting up Rain Dance. If he can get Rain Dance off and has some life left, he has substitute which can give him a free turn to scout for incoming SandStream or SnowWarning on the next turn, RainDance back, then explode. Or, he has spikes, but the likelyhood he'll be alive long enough to lay down 2-3 layers is slim. Kingdra comes in after the explosion and sweeps on the Special Side with 480 speed.

My main request right now is help on possible move-set switches for my 2 main physical attackers, Swampert & Gyarados. I think they're too narrow in scope and would appreciate any help and suggestions on changes. Thanks!

Commentary in italics are changes that I've made from the previous Team Hydro incarnation.
Commentary in bold are specific requests for ideas above movesets.

Floatzel @ Leftovers
Swift Swim
252 HP / 6 Att / 252 Speed
Jolly
- Aqua Jet
- Bulk Up
- Baton Pass
- Taunt

Floatzel starts things off and tests the waters. If I'm up against something that I know uses either Grass or Electric then she zips out. If just an attacker, Floatzel is faster than most and can get a Bulk Up off before it gets hit the first time. If its a Status/Spiker/Buffer then Taunt out of the gate. Once I get the first move over with, I can gague how many Bulk Ups I can pull off before I start passing, and then it depends on what is either switched in or what is still struggling to take down the Sea Weasel. I chose Aqua Jet just to have a priority move on someone, just in case.

(I've made two substitutions to my original team. I've removed Empoleon & Tentacruel in favor of Floatzel & Quilfish. I like Empoleon a lot, as he was a Sleep Talker, but the randomness of getting the right move off at the right time was such a roll of the dice. One battle I slept talked Rest 6 times in a row before getting an Ice Beam off, which actually froze the opponent... Too iffy for me!)

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Intimidate
72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall

Gyarados comes in against fighters (without Thunderpunch!), grounded pokemon, and really anything that is a safe switch. With a Bulk Up it can lay down massive damage, but with a Dragon Dance on top it gets stronger and faster, laying a path of destruction in its wake. Well, thats the idea anyways! If an electric comes in that I can't outspeed and OHKO I have no problem switching into the next brawler.

Any move changes/additions would be appreciated. Bite, Ice Fang, both good moves, but I need to vary my coverage. Check everyone else and see if you can make a suggestion to change up.

(My previous set had Gyara as my leader with Choice scarf. It did ok, but it really didn't pack enough punch to sweep, and the speed wasn't enough to outspeed some notable threats.)

Swampert @ Leftovers
Torrent
252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 Def
Impish
- Earthquake
- Avalanche
- Waterfall
- Roar

Swampert wraps up the physical triangle that leads the team off. He'll switch in to absorb electric, and if he is on the receiving end of a Bulk up or two his survivability and damage output increases DRAMATICALLY. If I switch into an electric type I always go with either Avalance or Waterfall as my first move because it would be suicide to stay in and get earthquaked and you almost HAVE to assume that the incoming is going to be resistant/immune to ground. Not that a STABbed Waterfall feels good either... Roar gets rid of those that somehow make it around Floatzel and get some stat boosters or get a substitute up.

Along with Gyarados, I would be very open to move changes to cover more ground. I thought of adding Hammer Arm since speed really isn't an issue, but Avalance is just sooo good against speedy Dragons that think they can overpower him.

(Swampert remains fairly intact, but I've changed out Stealth Rock in favor of a 3rd move to take advantage of Bulk Up from Floatzel.)

Starmie @ Choice Scarf
Natural Cure
102 HP / 252 SpA / 156 Spe
Modest
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin

With 457 speed while wearing the scarf, this Star has 2 roles. The first is to Spin away spikes, the second is to hurt things. Now, you may be asking yourself a few things, like why the hell is he using Choice Scarf on a Starmie! And why why is he using Rapid Spin in that set! Here are a few thoughts. First, if the opposition gets in any Spikes, the first natural reaction is to send in a spinner. Depending on the spiker, one of the most common strategies is to send out a Ghost to protect the newly formed layer. My next step is to predict what ghost is coming in, and pre-emptive strike. If that takes out their spikes protector, then switch out and back in to finish the job. Second, if there are no spikes on the field, Starmie is no pushover with 328 Special attack and speed that even outruns the most common Ninjask variants. The Scarf keeps Recover from being on this set.

(Starmie was a Choice Specs variant in the last team and got outsped a lot, I didn't like that...)

Quilfish @ Damp Rock
Swift Swim
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Speed (252 HP / 252 Speed / 6 Att)
Impish (Jolly)
- Rain Dance
- Explosion
- Poison Jab (Spikes)
- Substitute

The poor little puffer fish has some trouble joining the fray, but it is another option for Floatzel to pass to when faced with Physical Grass attacks. His main role is to set up 8 turns of Rain, and if he goes down in the process then so be it. However, if he can survive the initial attack he should be outpacing his opponenet at this point. From here, depending on how much health he has left, he'll either create a sub to scout for a switch in to ruin his rainy day (TTar, Hippo, Abama...) and then counter with another dance of his own behind the sub. If he doesn't have the health to stay in again and get another sub off, he'll valiantly sacrafice himself for the greater good, taking the opponent down with him (Explode). Hes definatly UU, but in this role he does his job VERY well.

(I guess he took the spot of Tentacruel, especially since they have the same typing, but TCruel's role as a spinner was absorbed by Starmie. Also, I had a VERY difficult time getting TCruel into the battle before)

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Swift Swim
252 SpA / 136 Speed / 122 HP
Modest
- Rain Dance
- Surf
- Draco Meteor (Dragon Pulse)
- Ice Beam

Now for the anchor, and my forum avatar... In my prior Hydro set that included Kingdra, one of the problems I had was switching him in, using Rain Dance, surviving BOTH those attacks, and then surviving the Orb-recoil. Now his little buddy Quilfish leads the way with up to 8 turns of rain and also gives an opportunity to switch in cleanly. Surf gets a boost from both STAB & the Rain, Dragon Pulse gets STAB as well, and Ice beam is there over the other special attacks for greater coverage. If he can get in with all weather obstacles & special walls taken care of, he ususally is not leaving until the battle is over.

(The previous Kingdra set was a mixed-SwiftSwim-sweeper and I liked him a LOT. Focusing on just Special Attack gives me room to add more speed and even health for better survivability, especially with Life Orb)

Thanks to everyone who commented before, and thanks in advance for all the new comments and criticisms. I can take it, so be as critical as you want!

 

[Rane]

I changed out Grass Knot for Surf on Starmie at the suggestion of another RMT somewhere else and it makes sense & has worked out well.

I was thinking of changing out Ice beam or even Surf on Empoleon, but I'm not sure what to change it with. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

 

[DarkArticuno]

Changes Empoleon's Ice Beam to Grass Knot.

 

[Rane]

Changes Empoleon's Ice Beam to Grass Knot.

I was thinking about doing this, but what would be a reason to do so? To counter other waters?

 

[Ransen]

Keep ice beam on Empoleon. Its your only specs mence counter.

Needs Lanturn IMHO. Counters Raichu quite well, since Lanturn is light, immune to electric attacks and resistant to ice type attacks. I would replace it over Starmie. Lanturn can also support your team with Paralysis and maybe even confusion. But you would have to loose the out right sweeping capabilities of Starmie in exchange for greater survivability.

Also you may want to put in a priority move in case of sashing end game sweeps. Not sure where you would want to put that into though....

 

[Slice n Dice]

Hi, I'm Hp Grass Raikou! I 6-0 this team 100% of the time nearly unscathed.

Not saying that is common, but bulky electric types in general will decimate this team.

I normally have something to say to fix a team, but I won't help this time because this team has no chance of ever being competitive material.

If you are actually willing to change the mono theme, tell me and I can make some suggestions.

 

[RaikouLover]

^^^ Raikou doesn't run HP Grass. And Kingdra actually beats him one-on-one, or damages him enough for Gyarados to finish him off.

Bulky electric types is kind of an oxymoron. The only one is Zapdos, who needs HP Grass to touch swampert.

I've actually tried a mono-water team. My suggestions are to find a way to get ludicolo and suicune in there. Suicune has no weaknesses with CM, Sleep Talk variant. Ludicolo can be tailored to whichever role you like, but gives you a great back-up sweeper. I also recommend a reliable way to take out Blissey, which is difficult with water. Subpunch swampert is viable, but then you lack a phazer... ahh decisions!

Lanturn can offer a great way to beat electric types.

Milotic makes a better lead than Gyarados. I tried the Choice Scarf Variant... (Surf, IB, HP Electric, Hypnosis).

An opponent that you absolutely HAVE to find a way to beat is Celebi. That little fuck will 6-0 a water team unless you find a way to beat it.

Tentacruel is also dead weight, but I guess can hurt Celebi a little. Still, he sucks IMO. You really aren't in need of a rapid spinner.

 

[Slice n Dice]

Raikou can run hp grass if it wants to out every single non uber water type with ease, but Ice is a better decision in general.

 

[Rane]

Thanks to everyone (even Slice n Dice =D ) for the feedback. The more the better, no matter how critical!

I have bred and raised all of these in D/P for the WiFi environment, and the absolute likelyhood that I will encounter a "legit" Raikou that is running with HP Grass (that actually has a good Power Level) is very slim (though it is something I will have to watch for!). I can see Celebi being a huge threat, and I have had trouble with speedy Sceptiles (for obvious reasons).

Tentacruel has seemed to be dead weight for the most part, but he can reliably switch into even Stabbed Special grass attacks and Ice Beam back. Toxic Spikes have also been meh in practice and trying to keep him in with all the psychics out there has been difficult.

Lanturn & Ludicolo are both that I'd like to rotate in and out. Add Milotic, Floatzel, and Vaporeon to that list! Now I'd like to add Suicune to the list but that means either grinding Coloseum for a decent nature & stats or trading for one or *gasp* pokesav-ing one.

Again thanks for all the thoughts & criticism. If you have any more please keep it coming!

 

[Ransen]

On the other hand, Tentacruel can totally counter Breloom after you let Empoleon take Spore. It resists both stab, can ohko it with sludge bomb and laughs at leech seed.

 

[Rane]

I've made drastic changes and the RMT first post has been edited.

Thanks again for all the previous comments, but time to take another look at it. I've removed Empoleon & Tentacruel, added Floatzel & Quilfish, and changed a lot of the moves around. Its really a whole new team, and its a lot of fun.

 

[helldemon123]

surf over psychic on starmie
psychic has pitiful coverage and surf gets STAB

 

[Blue Harvest]

^^^ Raikou doesn't run HP Grass.

Some do. No dragon will switch in to Raikou for fear of HP Ice. HP Grass will annihilate Swampert and... Lanturn I guess.

 

[RaikouLover]

Use mixdra, it is highly superior to all special set.

 

[Heroes Fall]

Ever think of getting a dugtrio to help trap and eliminate those weather switchers? I fought a rain dance team earlier, and when I switched into T tar and killed one of his guys, he switched in dugtrio and killed me, and I couldn't stop the rain, and ended up losing everyone to kingdra. Just a thought.

 

[Rane]

surf over psychic on starmie
psychic has pitiful coverage and surf gets STAB

Surf > + Fire, Ground, Rock /// - Water, Grass, Dragon
Psychic > + Fight, Poison /// - Psychic, Steel /// X Dark
I have such an abundance of Water moves on this team that I can switch to, both Physical & special, that I need additional coverage. And Psychic is STAB so that helps.

Use mixdra, it is highly superior to all special set.

I LOVE MixDra, but I hate having to sacrafice the new Speed & HP that I've gotten by making that change. I'll try out both and see how it goes.

Some do. No dragon will switch in to Raikou for fear of HP Ice. HP Grass will annihilate Swampert and... Lanturn I guess.

It seems ANY electric running with HP Grass would decimate Swampert, and that is a risk I'll have to live with while running with a mono-team. But is HP Raikou a common threat? I mean, if you're expecting me to have all water of course you'd use it.

Ever think of getting a dugtrio to help trap and eliminate those weather switchers?

If Dugtrio was Ground/Water, I'd use him. I'm running Mono-water so its no go. Thanks though =D

Thanks to you all for the advice. I'm really interested in movest changes to Swampert & Gyarados if anyone has any advice on those.

 

[BrazilianDragonite]

You may want to put Poison Jab over Spikes on Qwilfish,otherwise Ludicolo will give you problems(and to give a attack other than exploding yourself)

 

[Rane]

You may want to put Poison Jab over Spikes on Qwilfish,otherwise Ludicolo will give you problems(and to give a attack other than exploding yourself)

Ludicolo DOES give me problems, add him to the list! Quilfish isn't in to sweep or anything, he's there to set up raindance and give Kingdra a clean change-in, wether by exploding the side or by fainting himself. Actually the 4th move is really an afterthought. I will consider it though, thanks!

 

[EvilMario]

After reading the first post, I was just about to say Ludicolo weakness is a huge point, but looks like you're already on top of it. Rain Dance is my standard team, so maybe a word of advice.

If Qwilfish is not suppose to kill anything, you can make him bulky. (I actually lead with a bulky Taunting Qwilfish) I understand your reason for Substitute on Qwilfish, but with Poison Jab you cover your Ludicolo weakness, even with Poison's poor attacking coverage otherwise. His decent attacks hits the least impressive of Lud's defenses, and he can't do a lot back to you.

On Kingdra I would consider Draco Meteor. If you're in a tough spot late in game, Draco Meteor can be the decisive blow. The likelihood of sweeping with Dragon Pulse is limited, you'll want to be hitting with STAB-Rain Dance boosted Surfs, or Ice Beam for Dragons.

I hope some of this advice helps.

 

[Odinwolf]

Why not use Ludiculo to set up rain for you? It's pretty much better in every regard than Quilfish and won't get screwed over by taunt.

 

[Rane]

If Qwilfish is not suppose to kill anything, you can make him bulky. (I actually lead with a bulky Taunting Qwilfish) I understand your reason for Substitute on Qwilfish, but with Poison Jab you cover your Ludicolo weakness, even with Poison's poor attacking coverage otherwise. His decent attacks hits the least impressive of Lud's defenses, and he can't do a lot back to you.

Hey, insightful criticism & ideas from an experienced Quilfish user! Thanks for the thoughts, my main concern in the OU field is someone coming in and OHKOing the little puffer, so maxing speed increases the odds that I can at least get Rain Dance off. I think replacing SOMETHING with Poison Jab is something I need to consider and pull the trigger on. Could you give an IV spread of the one you're using?

On Kingdra I would consider Draco Meteor. If you're in a tough spot late in game, Draco Meteor can be the decisive blow. The likelihood of sweeping with Dragon Pulse is limited, you'll want to be hitting with STAB-Rain Dance boosted Surfs, or Ice Beam for Dragons.

I'm going to make this change. I like it. As it stands right now I'm using Pulse as STAB Filler... Draco Meteor would be like an ace in the hole. Thanks Mario!

 

[Rane]

Why not use Ludiculo to set up rain for you? It's pretty much better in every regard than Quilfish and won't get screwed over by taunt.

The idea is to get Kingdra into the battle on a clean switch in (no damage from opponent attack) and that can be achieved through one from my team fainting. Quilfish can explode taking the opponent with him in the best case scenario. I'd have to switch and take damage when using Ludicolo.

The dancing pineapple is definatly something I'd like to get into the fray, but right now I want to see what else I can do with the puffer. Thanks!

 

[Ransen]

I used to run quilfish on my old 3rd gen water mono team.

Quilfish @ Salac Berry
Swift Swim
Can't remeber EVs
Timid
-Destiny Bond (LOL)
-Endure
-Flail
-Sludge Bomb

Endure first than flail away. Any steel or ghost type, use destiny bond. But this was when Ttar and Hippowdon weren't so common.

 

[EvilMario]

Hey, insightful criticism & ideas from an experienced Quilfish user! Thanks for the thoughts, my main concern in the OU field is someone coming in and OHKOing the little puffer, so maxing speed increases the odds that I can at least get Rain Dance off. I think replacing SOMETHING with Poison Jab is something I need to consider and pull the trigger on. Could you give an IV spread of the one you're using?


I'm going to make this change. I like it. As it stands right now I'm using Pulse as STAB Filler... Draco Meteor would be like an ace in the hole. Thanks Mario!

Well, Qwilfish could also be Focus Sashed. My reasoning against this on my team is he needs to be holding Damp Rock. As a Focus Sasher though, he will always be able to setup five turn rain, and in most cases, be the quickest Pokemon on the field next turn, Destiny Bonding/Exploding on the Pokemon in play. You'll run into auto-weather issues though if you 'hang on', and you'll be KOed as they most likely setup.

Impish 252HP/196Def nets Qwilfish some survivability. He can take a BulkyGyara's Dragon Danced Earthquake without being OHKO. He easily takes Choice Scarf Heracross' Earthquake, and then out-speeds after rain is up. Likewise with max attack Metagross/Tyranitars' unboosted Earthquake. Basic rule of thumb is, don't let him take boosted Earthquakes, or special attacks which he does not resist.

Do note you'll fail to KO Tyraintar, and friends even with your Rain Dance boosted Waterfall. Of course, with Destiny Bond/Explosion this is not usually an issue. It's another reason to run Poison Jab, as you'll be able to come in on Abomasnow's attacking rather easily, or Ludicolo's threatening with a 2HKO on both (regardless of if the remaining 60 EVs go into Attack, or not).


Lots of rambling. I hope some of this information helps.

 

[Rane]

Lots of rambling. I hope some of this information helps.

Too much to justify re-posting, especially since its the message above this one! No, its lots of good information, I'm going to digest it and possibly make the change.

Move substitution : Poison Jab for Spikes (both Abomasnow & Ludi are both problems! Add Aboma to the list, and hes a weather threat). I'm keeping Sub on there for the reason I stated earlier... scounting for weather switchers. I Rain Dance and hopefully survive the hit, the opposition switches to TTar, Hippo, or Aboma while I Sub, I Rain Dance next turn while the sub gets whacked, then I Explode.

I am going to try the IV spread you suggested, BUT, I am going to try on both Jolly & Impish and see what a difference that makes.

Thanks for the suggestions!