VGC RMT: The Counters Paradise

[City Ocean]

So I created this team to be viable for VGC '17 and to counter all the main threats. I took some time to really look at the top threats I came across this time around and what I've found is that the Tapu's (especially Bulu and Koko), A-Marowak, Celesteela, and Rain Teams run rampant.
I created this team to help counter specific threats and to be a bit flexible.
Any and all advice is very welcome.


Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 140 Atk / 4 Def / 68 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Shadow Bone
- Flare Blitz
- Protect

As many people are now aware, A-Marowak counters a lot of common pokes this VGC, it completely walls Tapu Koko/A-Raichu leads, OHKO even 252hp/252def Celesteela with Flare Blitz, can kill mirror matchups, and is just an all around powerhouse.

I chose the Bonemerang due to Bulu and it's near omniscient presence, thus making EQ quite weak as well as I have several pokes weak to EQ as it is. Shadow Bone for solid STAB that hits neutral for a good chunk. Flare Blitz for more STAB as well as OHKO on a lot of threats (Celesteela,Bulu,Scizor, etc)
Protect as it's near mandatory in Doubles as well as allows scouting and potential mind games.

EV spread allows outspeeding of uninvested (and even minor invested) Celesteela, 8 EV Bulu (a common set I'm seeing gives it 96 speed, where as my A-Marowak gets 97) as well as other A-Marowak. 68 EV allow surviving Shadow Ball from Lele, Muddy Water from Fini, Knock Off A-Muk as well as Scald outside of rain from Pelliper (check my numbers on that as I do believe that is correct.) 20 HP gives me odd numbers from Nature Madness as well as allows survival of an EQ with Grassy Terrain. Rest goes into Attack for more damage. I found that I was unable to OHKO A-Muk with Bonemrang even at 252+ ATK but am still able to 2HKO with this spread.



Tapu Bulu @ Grassy Seed/ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Atk / 116 SpD / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower/Brick Break/Stone Edge
- Protect/Zen Headbutt

Tapu Bulu is a monster. This thing hits like a truck with or without Choice Band and is still incredibly bulky. Grassy Terrain is invaluable for my team to stop the EQ spam that runs rampant, as well as swapping into Politoad and other non Pelliper water types that A-Marowak fears.

Wood Hammer because of course, it's is the strongest STAB and OHKO a multitude of pokes.
Horn Leech for that delicious recovery outside and inside Grassy Terrain and a good STAB without the recoil of WH.

Superpower I don't find myself using much, but I often choose to use it against the Porygon's I see roaming about, the rare Weavile as well as A-Muk if I have to attack it. I have thought of swapping this to Brick Break to stop Aurora Veil and Light Screen/Reflect, but I am uncertain about the loss of damage. Stone Edge is yet another option, providing me with an option against Pelipper and Salamence instead of being walled. Protect for the reasons listed above on A-Marowak.

EV's for Bulk and Power. HP allows for maximum bulk. Attack EV allows OHKO and 2HKO on the majority of Tapu and Gyarados after Intimidate. If Banded, Wood Hammer 2HKO Mareanie and does not get OHKO even merciless Venoshock. SpD EV makes it so Tapu Lele cannot 2HKO with Psychic under any circumstance (besides helping hand.) Speed EV allows outspeed of other Bulu as well a bit of a throw for those speed creeping standard Bulu.

Grassy Seed allows me to survive a Gunk Shot from Burned A-Muk and fire a Wood Hammer Back as well as increases the tank from the numerous Rock Slide and EQ coming out. Band is another option and one I sometimes swap to, but I find myself sometimes unable to power through teams while locked into Wood Hammer and I do like the ability to swap moves and Protect if needed.



Muk-Alola @ Life Orb/Black Sludge
Ability: Power of Alchemy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 108 Def / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak/Stockpile
- Protect

Ever since I saw A-Muk, I was in love. Muk is one of my favorite pokes of all the generations (I loved the gimmick of Poison Touch with Poison Jab) and it was surprisingly bulky. Now it's rainbow and has some teeth, what else could I ask for? Anyway, A-Muk is also a strong counter to all of the Tapu's, Gengar, A-Marowak, and who doesn't want a super strong STAB Knock Off? Power of Alchemy hasn't helped me a huge amount but I prefer it to Poison Touch due to stuff like Grassy Surge, Thick Fat, and Lightning Rod. A fun ability and sometimes a very useful one.

I find the moveset is rather self-explanatory, Poison Jab and Knock Off are very good STAB and things I couldn't OHKO with Poison Jab, I also couldn't OHKO with Gunk Shot. The accuracy is better thus I chose PJab.

Shadow Sneak is an option as I've found the priority extremely helpful to pick up kills I otherwise wouldn't have. Though Stockpile with Sludge is also a strategy. It makes Muk a formidable wall that also deals great damage and must be double focused to be taken down. I usually stick with LO and Sneak as I do enjoy the extra damage output and utility.

The EV's allow Poison Jab into Shadow Sneak to kill both Tapu Koko and Lele, as well as Bulu, also 2HKO and outspeeding A-Marowak. On the defensive side, it guarantees a 3HKO from Koko Thunderbolt under all conditions, as well as prevents OHKO from Garchomp.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Protect

Milotic is a deceptive Pokemon. Many people would assume it would be the standard bulky Marvel Scale. Well, with the abundance of Intimidate users this gen, I decided to go with a lesser known Competitive set. Milotic also protects from water spam and protects my Bulu and A-Marowak, as well as dealing with potential threats in Garchomp and Salamence.

Scald and Ice Beam for STAB and a counter to Salamence and Garchomp, both Pokes I often see. Recover for longevity, and Protect for scouting and just general use.

The EV's I've chosen allow general SP.Def bulk as well as preventing OHKO from Thunderbolt and Discharge from Koko. 180 SpA guarantees a OHKO against all variations of Salamence and Garchomp, which is why Milotic was chosen.



Hariyama @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wide Guard
- Fake Out/Feint
- Poison Jab
- Seismic Toss

Hariyama is a situational choice. He helps immensely with A-Ninetails Blizzard Spam as well as Arcanine Heat Wave. I chose to run Thick Fat for even greater Fire/Ice bulk and prevent any OHKO from any Ice/Fire source. Aguav Berry for the beautiful 50% health regain, and keeps the fat man around for a while. Wide Guard is the main reason I chose Hariyama. He doesn't share many of the same weaknesses that my other teammates have, and is also extremely bulky on the defensive side.

Wide Guard prevents all the EQ, Rock Slide, Blizzard, Discharge, Heat Wave, and Dazzling Gleams, that are rather prevalent. This helps my team quite a lot and allows free turns of damage for the sweepers.

Fake Out is also for a free turn for my sweepers and also just general utility. Feint is also an option here as Protect is so common, and could help with kills I would not normally have.

Poison Jab 2HKO all Tapu's and can provide a delightful poison to wear down more bulky pokes.

Seismic Toss is for the extra damage on Celesteela as well as others that take little damage from Poison Jab. As I am not invested in Attack, I felt Seismic was the better option for all around utility.

Hariyama is situational at best but is very helpful when needed, and is only brought in when I see A-Ninetails and T-Koko. Other than that, he is often left in the sidelines.



Mismagius @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 148 HP / 104 Def / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Imprison
- Substitute/Protect
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball

Yet another situational Pokemon, Mismagius is specifically to stop Trick Room. I did not EV my pokes for Trick Room use, so with such a popular strategy, I figured I should bring Mismagius along to stop it.

Imprison is the entire reason I chose Mismagius. Imprison prevents Oranguru and every other Trick Room user from using that or even Substitute/Protect. Both are common defensive moves, and the ability to completely negate them is divine. Substitute allows Mismagius to last for ages, and also triggers the Iapapa Berry to continue to Sub and prevent the above moves from the opponents use.

Shadow Ball is for STAB and a bit of chip damage as well as chance to lower Sp.Def, also makes it so Mismagius is not complete fodder to Taunt.

EV's prevent A-Muk from OHKO after the Berry is eaten, as well as prevents OHKO from non-thick club A-Marowak, as well as grants maximum possible speed to assure the Imprison.



And that's my team. I love the power that A-Muk and A-Marowak bring. Tapu Bulu was almost made for them due to his Grassy Surge, and incredible damage to take out threats to A-Marowak. Milotic is very unexpected and has won me numerous fights due to the boosts from Intimidate, as well as covers my water weakness and just general bulk. Hariyama and Mismagius are my to least used, and situational picks, but I chose them for very specific reasons, to which I feel the accomplish well. The issues I face are not numerous but annoying nontheless.



PROBLEMS:

Pelliper:
Pelliper is just a pain. I absolutely hate Hurricane as it deals with my Bulu rather handily and my luck with confusion is quite bad it seems. I don't have anything that can OHKO but I can take out if I double down on it. Scald also burns and often OHKO my A-Marowak.

Alola-Muk:
As much as I love A-Muk, I actually don't have a good counter to it. My best bet is often Hariyama or Milotic. Nothing A-Muk has can OHKO either and Milotic doesn't mind the basic poison due to Grassy Terrain and Leftovers. Scald is my best counter to it, and has enough damage to break Subs from A-Muk. I just have to pray for burn to assure the win against it.

Rain Teams in General:
I just don't have any hard counter if they run Pelliper rain due to the 2HKO from Hurricane on my Bulu, which is the best counter to Water, unfortunately Water often carries Ice, which Bulu doesn't enjoy.


There are likely more but it's 4 am here and I'm calling it a night!

I'm completely open to advice and would love any insights you have, as this would be my first year in VGC! (I hate Mega's and wanted nothing to do with them)

 

[City Ocean]

bump

 

[Loudo]

Hi, so I'm gonna give you my 2 cents.

I noticed you didn't go into a lot of detail about the synergy of your team. What pushed you to choose specifically these Pokémon? I get the impression that you just chose some of them because you thought they were cool.

For example, you said you choose Alolan Muk because it is "a strong counter to all of the Tapu's, Gengar, A-Marowak". You don't seem particularly weak to the Tapus to me and Alolan Muk is a pretty poor counter to Alolan Marowak considering it's weak to Bonemerang (and you already have a counter in Milotic anyway). I'm not saying you need to drop Alolan Muk, but you haven't really given me the impression you chose it for solid reasons.

Another example, you chose Mismagius "to stop Trick Room". But your team seems pretty slow to me, the kind of team which most of the time would actually enjoy playing under Trick Room. I think you would benefit more from an actual Trick Room setter (as a means of speed control), rather than Mismagius. This would probably also help you deal with Pelipper.

In general, I can't really figure out what your team plan is.

(EDIT: Also, a small correction. No one is going to expect Milotic to be Marvel Scale. Ever since VGC 2015, when players see a Milotic, they are immediately going to assume it has Competitive.)

 

[bp139]

I would replace mismagius with gastrodon. It counters muk and pelliper really well. It also counters GarchompYour team also Especially because mismagius is useless in non trick room match-ups. Gastrodon can be put at Min. speed if you are so worried about trick room. It would run Grassium Z on Tapu Bulu because Bloom Doom hit really hard. It would also replace Seismic Toss with Close Combat on Hariyama and run max HP and max Attack on it for EVs.

 

[City Ocean]

Hi, so I'm gonna give you my 2 cents.

I noticed you didn't go into a lot of detail about the synergy of your team. What pushed you to choose specifically these Pokémon? I get the impression that you just chose some of them because you thought they were cool.

For example, you said you choose Alolan Muk because it is "a strong counter to all of the Tapu's, Gengar, A-Marowak". You don't seem particularly weak to the Tapus to me and Alolan Muk is a pretty poor counter to Alolan Marowak considering it's weak to Bonemerang (and you already have a counter in Milotic anyway). I'm not saying you need to drop Alolan Muk, but you haven't really given me the impression you chose it for solid reasons.

Another example, you chose Mismagius "to stop Trick Room". But your team seems pretty slow to me, the kind of team which most of the time would actually enjoy playing under Trick Room. I think you would benefit more from an actual Trick Room setter (as a means of speed control), rather than Mismagius. This would probably also help you deal with Pelipper.

In general, I can't really figure out what your team plan is.

(EDIT: Also, a small correction. No one is going to expect Milotic to be Marvel Scale. Ever since VGC 2015, when players see a Milotic, they are immediately going to assume it has Competitive.)

I feel I went quite in-depth on each Pokemon as well as the name of the thread should showcase the theme in it of itself. This team is built to counter all of the top tier threats this VGC and do so in a less predictable way. In terms of A-Muk, perhaps you haven't run the calcs, but A-Muk cannot be OHKO by Bonemrang under any of the current top EV spreads for A-Marowak (bar helping hand) and the only way to OHKO with Helping Hand places A-Marowak in range for a OHKO from Knock Off. A-Muk is one of the most reliable checks for A-Marowak this gen. Especially if I lead with A-Muk and Mismagius, Mismagius (I've changed to a Ghostium Z Destiny Bond set for her) is a suicide lead, then passing on Levitate to A-Muk, thus making it near impossible to take down, and impossible for A-Marowak to OHKO.
The point of not running Trick Room is due to the face that a vast majority of teams will come prepared for that very basic strategy. The spreads I've indicated allow me to outspeed and deal with common Trick Room Pokemon. And the ability to completely nullify a stretgy with just one pokemon is far too delicious to pass up.

 

[Loudo]

I feel I went quite in-depth on each Pokemon

You did. You explained your EV spread and movepool choices in detail. What I was lamenting was the lack of explanation about the synergies of your team.
"I use Mismagius as a suicide lead to then pass on Levitate to Alolan Muk" is an example of synergy.

In terms of A-Muk, perhaps you haven't run the calcs, but A-Muk cannot be OHKO by Bonemrang under any of the current top EV spreads for A-Marowak (bar helping hand) and the only way to OHKO with Helping Hand places A-Marowak in range for a OHKO from Knock Off. A-Muk is one of the most reliable checks for A-Marowak this gen.

You originally said Alolan Muk was your choice because (among other things) it is a strong counter to Alolan Marowak. Being a counter, it is my understanding, implies the ability to switch in against the Pokémon you are supposed to counter. Alolan Muk doesn't fit this description, considering it can take almost half HPs from Marowak's most common attacks barring Shadow Bone. Whether it is OHKOed or not isn't really relevant.
If you now tell me that Muk is a check then I don't have objections.

The point of not running Trick Room is due to the face that a vast majority of teams will come prepared for that very basic strategy. The spreads I've indicated allow me to outspeed and deal with common Trick Room Pokemon. And the ability to completely nullify a stretgy with just one pokemon is far too delicious to pass up.

I get that, you're great against Trick Room teams. What I was saying is that you might benefit from Trick Room against non-TR teams, considering your team is not very fast (while still being able to counter TR in most circumstances).