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Roserade [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Ace Emerald, Sep 24, 2012.

  1. Ace Emerald

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    [pimg]410[/pimg]

    Roserade

    [Overview]

    <p>Despite having been recently dethroned by Moxie Heracross, Roserade deserves its title as the former queen of UU. Its access to great support moves in Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sleep Powder, combined with a huge base 125 Special Attack and usable base 90 Speed make it both a fearsome offensive powerhouse and a useful team supporter. It has a good ability in Natural Cure, which allows it to function as a status absorber. Because of its resistance to Water, the ability to remove a Scald burn with Natural Cure, and access to recovery moves in Giga Drain, Synthesis, and Rest, Roserade beats nearly all the bulky Water-types on its own. Unfortunately, its low HP stat and a pitiful Defense stat means it is threatened by almost any physical attack. Furthermore, it is weak to Fire, a very common offensive type in UU, and its mediocre Speed tier leaves it vulnerable to many faster threats. Despite these drawbacks, Roserade continues to be a very potent thread in UU, and is a monster to any that underestimate its power.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Sludge Bomb
    move 3: Sleep Powder / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Synthesis / Rest / Extrasensory
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>As an illustration of just how much raw power this set has, it can potentially 2HKO Snorlax after Stealth Rock damage. STAB Leaf Storm decimates not only the common Water-, Rock-, and Ground-types it hits for super effective damage, but also many Pokemon neutral or even resistant to Grass. Sludge Bomb is a more reliable STAB, which has the benefit of nailing opposing Grass- and Fire-type Pokemon for significant damage. Reasonably bulky Pokemon such as Arcanine and Shaymin might try to switch into Roserade expecting a Grass move, only to be surprised by a 2HKO and OHKO respectively. Sludge Bomb also has a 30% chance of poisoning, which might help cripple walls. Sleep Powder makes this set incredibly difficult to counter, as otherwise reliable counters can be rendered useless if they switch into the move. Roserade can proceed to bombard the slumbering Pokemon with high-powered moves, or switch out and present a setup opportunity for a teammate. Hidden Power Fire prevents Roserade from being walled by Steel-types such as Bronzong and Cobalion while adding onto neutral coverage alongside Roserade's dual STAB. Synthesis is the recovery move of choice for sets using Life Orb as it allows Roserade to stay in battle and keeping attacking. Rest is more useful for sets using Choice Specs, as it needs to switch out after locking itself into a recovery move anyways. Switching out after using Rest allows Roserade to clear the sleep status and brings her back to perfect condition. Extrasensory can be used in the fourth slot to deal significant damage to Fighting-type switch-ins such as Heracross, while dealing more to Crobat and opposing Roserade than Hidden Power Ice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The choice of item depends on whether Roserade plays the role of sweeper or wallbreaker. Life Orb is more suited for the general sweeping role as it has the freedom to stay in and change moves, while Choice Specs allow Roserade to perform as a powerful wallbreaker designed to hit and run. What nature you decide to use is up to your stand on the millennia-old debate of speed versus power. Timid allows Roserade to get the jump on anything slower than neutral Porygon-Z, such as Heracross without a Choice Scarf, Nidoking, and Adamant Arcanine. Modest simply makes Roserade more of a monster, and its benefit is simple: deal extra damage. Hidden Power Ice decimates other common switch-ins to Roserade, namely Crobat, Togekiss, and Zapdos. Giga Drain can be used over Leaf Storm to alleviate Life Orb recoil, but is significantly weaker and will prevent Roserade from 2HKOing Pokemon such as Snorlax. Spikes can replace Sleep Powder or Rest to bluff a defensive set, and is useful in case your team struggles with bulky walls. However, Roserade must then use Giga Drain over Leaf Storm, as Leaf Storm is illegal with Spikes. Roserade likes being paired with Pokemon that resist Flying-, Fire-, and Ice-type attacks, such as Suicune, Slowbro, and Rhyperior. Pairing Roserade with Pokemon such as Rhyperior, Qwilfish, or other Pokemon that can supply entry hazards eases Roserade's sweeps, turning many 2HKOs into OHKOs. Wish support from Umbreon or Togekiss is also appreciated by Roserade, as it keeps Roserade alive longer without having to rely on Synthesis or Rest to restore its HP.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Rest / Synthesis
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Rather than attacking prowess, this set focuses on Roserade's above-average Special Defense and ability to lay hazards reliably. Even uninvested, Roserade's Special Attack is fearsome. Giga Drain is a reliable STAB that keeps Roserade's HP in supply alongside Leftovers, and Sludge Bomb allows Roserade to provide a slight offensive pressure while having a 30% chance to poison opponents, helping to bring walls down. Rest is a last-ditch attempt to patch up Roserade's HP if Giga Drain and Leftovers aren't getting the job done. Natural Cure also allows Roserade to heal itself of sleep upon switching out, and keeps it healthy. Synthesis can be used over Rest as it doesn't put Roserade to sleep, but it has less PP and won't recover all of Roserade's HP.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>This set's EVs are designed to maximize Roserade's Special Defense while allowing it to outpace slower Pokemon, such as Modest Empoleon and Qwilfish. An alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe may be used to take advantage of Roserade's high Speed stat, but leads Roserade to play much like an inferior Froslass, who performs as a fast and frail Spike setter better. Aromatherapy can be used to help cure Roserade's teammates, but a cleric role is better left to bulkier Pokemon such as Umbreon and Togekiss who can take advantage of their immunities and better bulk to find opportunities to heal their team. Toxic Spikes can replace Spikes, but holds little merit due to how common other Roserade and Toxic Spikes-immune Pokemon are. Hidden Power Ice and Hidden Power Fire can leave a mark on Pokemon such as Crobat and Zapdos or Bronzong and Bisharp, respectively. Stun Spore can be used over Sludge Bomb if your team desires paralysis support. Pokemon such as Slowbro and Snorlax that can switch into strong and fast attackers make good teammates for Roserade, as they can give Roserade room to lay Spikes without fear of being OHKOed early on in the match. Pokemon that aren't extremely powerful and dish out a lot of close 2HKOs, such as Sharpedo and Yanmega, really appreciate Spikes support from this Roserade, as this allows them to break through walls and continue their sweeps.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Shadow Ball can be used to dent opposing Ghost- and Psychic-types. Specifically, it 2HKOes Chandelure, who resists everything on both sets; however, it has no further use. Choice Scarf allows Roserade to gain the jump on many unboosted Pokemon in the tier, such as Raikou, Weavile, and Mienshao. A SubSeed set is viable but done better by Whimsicott, whose Prankster grants it priority on Leech Seed and Substitute, or by Sceptile, who is much faster. Technician can be used with Grass Knot and Hidden Powers of 60 or 59 Base Power. With Hidden Powers of 60 Base Power, one has to reduce HP, Defense, Special Defense, and Speed IVs to 28 or 29, while 59 Base Power Hidden Powers only require reducing the Special Attack IV to 29. However, losing the utility of Natural Cure makes Technician often inferior.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Life Orb Roserade is extremely hard to counter if the person using it is competent, as the combination of Sleep Powder, Leaf Storm, and Sludge Bomb can deal out serious damage to a majority of teams. Crobat is arguably the best check to Roserade, as it can switch in on both of its STAB, outspeed it, and deliver a powerful counter-attack in Brave Bird. Snorlax has the bulk to take on all Roserade sets and demolish them with a powerful STAB Return or Body Slam. Faster attackers that can exploit Roserade's significantly lower Defense stat, such as Choice Scarf Heracross and Weavile, can come in on Spikes or after Roserade has landed a kill, and can heavily damage it or force it out. Fire-type Pokemon, such as Darmanitan, Victini, and Chandelure, can switch in on Leaf Storm or Giga Drain and threaten it with their powerful STAB moves, such as Flare Blitz, V-create, or Fire Blast respectively. Steel-type Pokemon such as Bronzong, Bisharp, and Registeel resist both of Roserade's STAB attacks and can set up hazards or a Substitute while Roserade is forced to switch out. However, Steel-types must beware Hidden Power Fire from the offensive set, as it will still deal a hefty amount of damage to them. Xatu can use its Magic Bounce ability to switch in on Spikes or Sleep Powder and bounce them back at Roserade, effectively neutering a sweep. However, offensive Roserades's Sludge Bomb 2HKOes even specially bulky Xatu.</p>
  2. DestinyUnknown

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    Togekiss and Zapdos take almost the same damage from Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power Ice, so de-slash it. I would say Rest (or Synthesis) should be the main slash because Hidden Power fire only hits Bronzong and its very situational tbh. Also mention a Choice scarf set in OO, remove Hidden Power Ground and add Shadow Ball (for Chandelure).
  3. kokoloko

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    Nah, Ice deserves a slash due to Crobat's importance in the current meta. Unless we want to slash Extrasensory--which also hits Heracross like a truck, btw-- in it's place. We definitely need something to hurt Crobat, though.
  4. DestinyUnknown

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    If we want something to hit Crobat, Hidden Power Rock or Extrasensory are better, Hidden Power Ice ONLY hits Crobat, so Hidden Power Rock is better to nail Chandelure, and if you don't want to lose speed ties, Extrasensory is the way to go, especially considering it has a 93'75% chance of OHKO after Stealth Rock (and that's just Timid LO, Modest is 100% OHKO w/ SR)
  5. kokoloko

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    I'm fine with that.

    Leaf Storm
    Sludge Bomb
    Hidden Power Fire / Extrasensory
    Sleep Powder / Synthesis / Rest

    Seem ok?
  6. Mazz

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    Done.

    I'll let more of QC weigh in on the spread kokoloko had suggested before I implement it.
  7. EonADS

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    Giga Drain can also go over HP/Extrasensory on the offensive set. I actually prefer it because it gives Roserade a methord for healing off LO recoil and keeping itself in the game. It's not hard to get 20% net recovery after LO recoil because Roserade hits like a truck. Besides which, most Pokemon are hit hard enough by Leaf Storm or Sludge Bomb that it's rarely a problem, or they are easily taken care of by common Roserade partners.
  8. Mazz

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    Yeah, dropping Roserade's only available coverage outside its STAB isn't that great of an idea. Without Hidden Power or Extrasensory, Roserade will have a lot of difficulties getting past Steel- and Poison-types, most notably Crobat, Nidoking, Bisharp, and Bronzong.
  9. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Leaf Storm vs. 4 Hp Nidoking = 120.4% - 142.1%

    Leaf Storm vs. 160 Hp Bisharp = 62.4% - 73.3%

    Only Crobat and Bronzong really apply to what you said, but eh. Sleep Powder is typically enough for me, but if you don't think it's a good idea, fine.
  10. kokoloko

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    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Sludge Bomb
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Extrasensory
    move 4: Sleep Powder / Synthesis / Rest
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Since everyone else is ignoring this, make this the set. 3 Attacks + Rest is really only when you use Specs. Mention STABs + Synthesis + Sleep Powder with LO in AC (or slash Synthesis in the third slot after Extrasensory).

    Edit the skeleton accordingly of course. Once that's done I'll approve.
  11. Nas

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    Sleep Powder is such a powerful move I would never recommend using a recovery move over it, especially on a choiced set. I think the set is perfect how we have it. Honestly, specs Shaymin would be a better choice if you forgo Sleep Powder.
  12. Nas

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    Yeah, I wouldn't encourage people to switch their Nidoking into Rosie's Leaf Storm. Also, you should probably add Togekiss and Zapdos to C&C, since they're two very popular checks.

    I'm ready to approve this, since no one has anything to say about Kokoloko's suggestion, but first you need to implement the Hidden Power Ice --> Extrasensory change in the Offensive set. Also, absolutely mention Raikou and Darmanitan in the teammates section for Spikes Rosie. They are two of the best Spikes abusers in the current meta.
  13. kokoloko

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    Synthesis definitely needs to be slashed, though.

    I really think the set I posted works better in the sense of showing viable combinations. If you don't agree with it, we should try and come up with a combination of the third and fourth moveslots that includes Synthesis, gives it more priority than Rest (since LO is slashed before Specs) and less than Sleep Powder (since Sleep Powder is "better" (although I would argue Synthesis is better sometimes)), and finally lets the user know Powder + recovery can be used together. Maybe:

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Sludge Bomb
    move 3: Sleep Powder / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Synthesis / Rest / Extrasensory
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    ?
  14. Mazz

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    I'll edit something in later. I won't have access to a computer for about 14 hours though.

    However, with all these rain teams popping up, should rest get the nod over synthesis? To me, that's common sense. Then maybe once the rain fad passes by, a SCMS edit can be done to swap the two if its that important for synthesis to have first priority on that slot.
  15. kokoloko

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    Eh I wouldn't wanna be Resting against rain offense tbh... They will use the free turn to wreck your shit.
  16. Mazz

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    I'll just edit this set in so this can get through QC.
  17. kokoloko

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    QC Approved 1/3
  18. PK Gaming

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    Move Crobat's mention in checks & counters to the top (since its arguably the best counter in the tier) and mention Snorlax, since it's capable of tanking hits from the Special Attacker set, and wreck OHKO the Spiker set with Return / Body Slam. Stress that countering LO Roserade is incredibly difficult due to the combination of Sleep Powder, Sludge Bomb & Leaf Storm.
    This is an oversight right? Nidoking is obliterated by Leaf Storm (366-432 (120.79 - 142.57%) from the offensive set. It can "check" the spiker set, but it's not a noteworthy check, and its certainly not better than Froslass, Togekiss, Tornadus and Offensive LO Zapdos who are better checks. You also need to mention the newly added Mew & Meloetta.
  19. Mazz

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    thanks.

    a'ight.
  20. PK Gaming

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    aight

    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  21. Mazz

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    thanks.
  22. Nas

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    Okay.

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved 3/3
  23. Mazz

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    Thanks RT. I'll have this and Mienshao written up tomorrow
  24. kokoloko

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    A couple last minute things:

    1. Instead of mentioning "An alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe may be used to take advantage of Roserade's high Speed stat, but leads Roserade to play much like Frosslass, who performs as a fast and frail Spike setter better" in the Spikes set's AC, mention 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA, which actually works in a similar way (setting up on waters, etc) while giving it a bit of bite.

    2. Also in that same set, move 24 EVs from SpD to SpA on the main EV spread. This gives Roserade a 100% chance to break standard SubCM Raikou's +1 Substitute with Sludge Bomb.
  25. Mazz

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    I'll throw that in once I write this up.

    Just got home from that cruise. I'm taking a nap, then I'm writing this up.

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