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DPP OU Rotom, CHARGE!

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by JabbaTheGriffin, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    Battle Spot Leader

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    INTRODUCTION OF SORTS

    Hello, my name is JabbaTheGriffin and this is what I consider to be the best team I've ever made for the DPP OU metagame. This team ended my slump of bad teams that had been plaguing me for about a month. After ST5 ended I really couldn't get my shit together and was making what were frankly unoriginal, boring mediocre teams. Then one day I watched sexy Jimbo (sot is also really sexy but he wasn't the one battling) battling and he was using a combination of the utmost strength that intrigued me. And that's where our story begins...

    THE PLAYERS

    [​IMG]
    Roserade (M) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Sleep Powder
    - Leaf Storm

    The strongest of leads! Actually usually only works against slower leads. But Sleep right from the get-go when most teams are pretty ill prepared to let anything go to sleep is always good. Also early Tspikes is very beneficial to my team as it helps me deal with some big threats and help out my main sweeper. Usually I only lay 1 layer down to begin with since I like the immediate 12% damage on things like ttar and infernape. The 2nd layer only comes later if I'm playing full stall. I don't like to let Roserade die early. So it's not a suicide lead per-say. However I don't like to use it lategame since it really is Salamence bait, a Pokemon that when wielded correctly is one of the few deuteronomys who can really give me problems.

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Spd/4 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Reflect
    - Recover
    - Roar

    An odd set, but it really holds the team together. It provides me with a second fire resist that you'll see later that I lacked for a while and really bit me on the ass whenever Blissey got boomed on. Reflect/Roar is great on defensive Latias and if I get into a groove with Latias and I have some hazards up, my opponent can really be in a world of trouble. The speed is really what drew me to using Latias, as having a good revenge answer for Mixmence is something any stall team/semistall team needs. Sometimes if I'm feeling randy I'll even try and bait Mence into Fire Blast! Fuck Mence though...

    [​IMG]
    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 202 HP/252 Def/56 SAtk
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Softboiled
    - Seismic Toss
    - Ice Beam

    My personal favorite Pokemon in DPP. So useful in so many ways. Out of all the Blissey sets, this is probably my favorite. Stealth Rock gives Blissey something to do. Otherwise you just come in and wall something and force it out. So instead of using another Pokemon, probably solely for Stealth Rock, putting it on Blissey was definitely the right move. Blissey is probably one of the best SRers in DPP, being able to come in on almost every special attacker and get that free turn to set up SR. You can run into some problems when you face a boom happy opponent who booms on Blissey the second they see it. But oh well. The spread is meant to be extremely bulky on the defensive side. I'll ask that you please don't try nitpicking it. That's the Blissey spread I run and you telling me that Blissey needs special defense in DPP (it doesn't) isn't going to make me change it.

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers/Shed Shell
    Ability: Keen Eye
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Whirlwind
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost

    Skarmory is cool. There's not really much to say about him. Skarmbliss still works wonders, but in a different way. I think the combination is more about setting up hazards and forcing switches with those hazards up more than it is about walling a majority of the metagame like they used to. Skarmory is my personal favorite spiker as I feel that Forretress has fell to the wayside a bit. Brave Bird so that I can serve as a better Gyarados answer for a bit. Leftovers vs. Shed Shell really just comes down to whether or not it's a tournament battle. Sometimes I forget to make the change to Shed Shell and it bites me in the ass though! Kevin Garrett runs Shed Shell when he uses this team on the ladder but I prefer the recovery from lefties since Magnezone is quite (surprisingly) rare. He says he wins more with shed shell though so maybe it's better overall!

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-h @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 56 HP/202 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Substitute
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Charge Beam

    The strongest member of my team. Subcharge Rotom is definitely one of the best Pokemon in the current metagame. He's able to come in on several of his immunities and resisitances and set up a free sub and go to down from there. Most of the common rotom switchins have trouble dealing with Subcharge. I definitely don't have enough HP to take Blissey Ice Beams without the sub breaking...so that should probably be fixed. But I've honestly had that situation come up once in the entire time I've been using this team so I really haven't had the motivation to change it since I really like packing as much special attack as I can. I just wish Rotom was a little faster so I could outspeed jolly Lucario, but alas he is not! Rotom also serves as my spinblocker although he's not a very good one since if Starmie surfs or Forretress uses payback, I'm not going to be sticking around for too long.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch
    - Iron Head
    - Thunderpunch

    Jirachi is what I like to call a "failsafe." Gyarados has a DD and flinched Skarmory to death? Revenge with Jirachi! DDTar somehow pulled 2 DD's out of nowhere? Revenge with Jirachi! Salamence is a complete dickhead and used Dragon Dance? Hope it's not Jolly! I originally never even considered Jirachi as an option until I almost lost to a Gyarados that killed Skarmory, Flinched Rotom and MISSED Stone Edge against Zapdos. And then I saw my insane DDMence weakness and realized that I needed a catch-all Pokemon that could revenge all the biggest threats in DPP. Jirachi fits that bill. Iron Head is also a very nice cleanup move, allowing me to be a complete dick to my opponents by flinching them to death.

    TEAMBUILDING PROCESS

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    This combo, inspired by Jimbo, is where the team began. I had never seen it used before, and had honestly never even seen a subcharge rotom. But I was inspired by the fact that Rotom easily deals with steel pokemon that are immune to tspikes, and then the tspikes kicks in against grounded pokemon that could give him trouble!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    While Jimbo took his team in a more offensive direction, I decided that I wanted to add a twist of my normal stall routine to the picture and I wanted to get down as many hazards as I could. So packing as much defense and as many hazards into 2 Pokemon results with the obvious choice of Skarmory and Blissey

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    In the last two slots I wanted to add Pokemon that could take advantage of the entry hazards. The first two Pokemon that came to mind were Latias and Zapdos. On Latias I ran a set of Calm Mind/Dragon Pulse/Recover/Surf and on Zapdos I ran Substitute/Roar/Roost/Tbolt. They worked out fairly well but I just felt something was missing. Obviously that was the ability to be swept by anything that used a +speed move. So the next thing I did was add the failsafe.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]/[​IMG][​IMG]
    The first time I added Jirachi was in a tournament battle because I was quite afraid of my opponent setting something up and going to town on my team. So first I tried out Scarf Jirachi. It worked out well but I noticed Heatran could really run through me. I tried HP Ground on it (lol) but it didn't really work out too well. My next try was Scarf Latias, who didn't work out as well and was really major pursuit bait which provided problems later in matches when i actually needed my revenge killer.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Then, even though I love Zapdos to death, I just gave up and admitted that Zapdos combined with Rotom really provided redundant coverage to the team and Rotom was much more important to its success. So my only choice was to drop Zapdos, replace it with the defensive Latias set that you see above and use Scarf Jirachi as my revenge killer. Since then the team hasn't changed once and it's my greatest love!

    WRAP UP IN PUKE GREEN!


    This team has been my pride and joy over the past month or two or however long I've had it and I've had immense success with it both in the Frontier and the World Cup. Others, including Kevin Garrett and Seven Deadly Sins, have also had quite a bit of success with it. But for me I think it's time to retire the team (at least temporarily). I feel like now using this team I enter battle at a disadvantage because the team is really a surprise to no one. And even though i may not be getting counterteamed, it's hard for a person to battle like they don't know what's coming. I'd like to thank Jimbo for finally inspiring my stupid ass and I'd like to thank everyone who has complimented my team because it took a lot of effort to make! And a special thanks goes out to Twist of Fate for being quite possibly the best co-captain a captain could ask for!!!

    (uh oh here comes the threat list)
  2. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    THREAT LIST (STOLEN STRAIGHT FROM KG'S THREAD!)

    Defensive Threats:

    [​IMG] Blissey - Hopefully I have at least a layer of tspikes down, since it makes Blissey so much easier to handle. But honestly Blissey really isn't doing much except sitting there against my team and I'm always perfectly content to PP Stall a blissey.

    [​IMG] Bronzong - Rotom easily comes in on all versions and sets up a sub. I also like to bring in Skarmory early game and get a few layers of spikes up.

    [​IMG] Celebi - Rotom can set up a sub on versions with GK/HP Fire. Skarmory can have a pretty fun time putting layers up against it too.

    [​IMG] Cresselia - Cresselia annoys me to a great degree. Rotom can come in as long as I watch out for twave. But CM versions can be a real bitch. Probably just have to hope that Latias doesn't get crit/frozen by ice beam as i roar it away until late game. I guess I could flinch it to death with Jirachi if need be.

    [​IMG] Forretress - Rotom is usually my first answer to forretress. I just have to watch for Payback since that could hurt my cute toaster a bit.

    [​IMG] Gliscor - Gliscor has been annoying me lately. Lately they've all been the fast version with Taunt and Toxic. I just bring Blissey into those since Ice Beam generally ohkos and Gliscor Earthquake isn't doing much to Blissey.

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Defensive Gyarados hmmm. Usually have Waterfall/Roar I guess. Easy to handle and i just just roar it around until rotom/jirachi can ohko it lategame.

    [​IMG] Hippowdon - Latias generally. Occasionally I'll try and set some layers up with skarmory. Also Tspikes usually fuck hippo up a fair bit.

    [​IMG] Jirachi - Annoying annoying annoying. Every Jirachi set annoys me so much i want to murder them all. Hopefully it has Body Slam on the defensive set instead of twave so i can bring in Rotom for free otherwise it's going to annoy the FUCK out of me. Not beat me anytime soon but SO ANNOYING.
    [​IMG] Rotom-A - Defensive versions I just switch Blissey into. Not touching my cute pink girlfriend anytime soon.

    [​IMG] Skarmory - Rotom, CHARGE!!!

    [​IMG] Snorlax - Skarmory just comes in sets up spikes fun stuff and VERY INTERESTING

    [​IMG] Suicune - Defensive suicune hmmmm. Can be annoying. Roserade can fuck it up if it's still alive. Otherwise I have to roar it around with Latias and hope that Rotom is alive late game to dispose of it.

    [​IMG] Swampert - Latias. Skarm to set up spikes if it doesn't have Hydro Pump.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar - Cursetar only annoys me if Skarmory is out of the picture. Then it can attack the Jirachi switchin and just play that game until Jirachi goes down. Annoying biiiitch.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon - Latias, Roserade, Blissey. Vappy is too weak...

    [​IMG] Zapdos - Blissey and Latias tag team this bitch got my hands in the air like yeaaaaaah


    Offensive Threats:

    [​IMG] Azelf - Okay well I'm just going to address this one as a lead. Azelf leads can be veeeery tricky for Roserade unless you know how to handle them, but it WILL require you to sac Roserade. First turn you Leaf Storm. If they taunt then cool you just got a free kill with roserade in exchange for sr which doesn't really effect this team all too much. If they psychic then on turn 2 you set up 1 layer of tspikes while they take the time to set up SR. It all works out perfectly!

    [​IMG] Breloom - Annoying. I have to sac something to sleep and bring in probably Latias. But as you can see my team doesn't like taking sleep at all so this is one of the few Pokemon that can annoy me.

    [​IMG] Gengar - Blissey. Hypnosis + Focus Blast + Focus Blast + Focus Blast could beat me but I'll spin that wheel anytime!

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Skarmory is my first answer too it. I generally WW it early game and BB away if I'm taunted or something. This can go badly SOMETIMES if they flinch me but oh well. Jirachi can revenge if need be. Or I can just switch Jirachi into DD who knows.

    [​IMG] Heatran - Blissey. Blissey covers a lot...I hope they don't boom! Also Latias serves as a backup counter even though it really can't hurt heatran...

    [​IMG] Infernape - Latias is my ape counter along with entry hazards. I always hope Infernape doesn't start throwing U-turns around since that could be bad.

    [​IMG] Jolteon - Blissey and Latias tagteam this cute little yellow cat.

    [​IMG] Latias - Jirachi decided that he wanted to be Blissey's partner in crime for a little bit and help her defeat opponents! (please don't explode on blissey thanks)

    [​IMG] Kingdra - Um hmmm. In rain it can be annoying I really hope I have tspikes up. DD versions without Hydro Pump (mostly what I see these days) are luckily walled by Skarmory.

    [​IMG] Lucario - Jolly Lucario is an asshole and is going to get at least one kill. Adamant Lucario is handled by Rotom somewhat. They can kill it if they have the balls to stay in and crunch, but at least I'm bringing it down with me probably.

    [​IMG] Machamp - One of the most annoying Pokemon to my team. I don't like switching into Dynamicpunch, it's such a lame move. So I usually go to rotom then switch to Skarmory to take Payback HOWEVER this can get tricky against sub versions :/ Definitely one of my few problem pokemon.

    [​IMG] Magnezone - If I don't have shed shell on Skarmory Magnezone can really be a nuisance since it traps and kills both Skarmory and Jirachi. Though I try my best not to bring Jirachi out until Magnezone is dead but things don't always work out the way you plan...

    [​IMG] Mamoswine - Skarmory. Grounded nonsteel life orb sweepers really don't pose that big of a problem to my team if you haven't noticed

    [​IMG] Metagross - Skarmory setting up spikes. Rotom settin up subs. Having a jolly time.

    [​IMG] Salamence - FUCK SALAMENCE. Every tournament loss I've had with this team has been to DDMence doing something retarded to my team. It is literally a pokemon that is probably going to beat me 50% of the time. Mixmence I can predict around to a degree and its never really given me problems. But ddmence...too strong.

    [​IMG] Scizor - Skarmory until Scizor stops being a dick and u-turning around like John Kerry. Then I start handling it different ways. Like setting up a sub with rotom!

    [​IMG] Starmie - Rotom to block spin if I see lefties recovery. Otherwise I'm bringing in Blissey.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar - Hopefully Tspikes are up. Cbtar can throw around Stone Edges that are gonna hurt like balls because I'm not bringing in Jirachi into a TTar attack. DDtar can also hurt but at least I have cool old Scarf Rachi to revenge it. Just hope you flinch through babiri you star!

    [​IMG] Zapdos - Same stuff that beats the defensive version pew pew

    PEW PEW
  3. Reverb

    Reverb Aegislash is not broken
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    I love this team and it's definitive of very new style (mainstream at least), semistall, the version I used of this team is totally sweet and you (with Jimbo's idea) made an amazing team, as you know I use this with vappy but that's just me, great job and great captaining in WCoP :)
  4. mc2094

    mc2094

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    Really, really nice team. I never really considered using Sub Charge Rotom beofore but this has definetley changed my mind. The only weakness I can see here is a classic MixMence with Roost since nothing can safely switch in and Jirachi is revenge killing at best but it's more of a paper weakness.

    Good Luck
  5. Bad Ass

    Bad Ass s&m and bible study
    is a Tiering Contributoris a GS2 Winneris a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

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    just posting to say that this is an amazing team, and in the time i've played it i have had nothing but success. the only thing that really troubled me was blufftran that boomed on my blissey, followed by something like a lo starmie. that is extremely situational though, and besides, if you changed something it would totally mess up the synergy this team has.
  6. joshe

    joshe the best

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    About your dd-mence weak, you can bait it so easily with blissey as a "failsafe" because it can take a lo outrage draco meteor etc, and if it dd's just switch to skarm to take the outrage and spike up or just bb it -.- and relying on a speed tie to control a big threat in mence with jirachi isn't a good idea.

    oh and i'm going to suggest you try a slightly more defensive ev spread on rotom. Something like: 108 HP / 204 SAtk / 196 Spd, will help you set up on blissey easier, making sure that blissey can't break rotoms subs (barring crazy ev investment) via ice beam or flamethrower, and you still have a high chance to 2HKO blissey with hp-fighting. With 196 Spe, you hit 281, which lets you outspeed lucario, classic Mixmence, etc...
  7. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    for the record this team is amazing and i have something retarded like a 40-7 win/loss ratio and it is amazing

    This team has a huge Subchamp issue, though, and it's really been the one huge issue here. However, given the fact that it is basically the best team I have played with I'm going to say that it really doesn't matter. There's no threat that this team can't "handle", even if some give it a little trouble, and the only real solid losses I've experienced have been to unreasonable hax. If this team doesn't end up in the RMT archive, I will be extremely surprised.

    If I had to make ONE suggestion, it's to run Rotom-C over Rotom-H. The Leaf Storm bluff makes stuff like Pert run its ass away, and considering that you can come in for free on SR or EQ and proceed to sub for free, it's been extremely useful for me to just get free subs on most pert.
  8. JLei2k

    JLei2k

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    Good team Semi Stall like my team. I'd change Thunderpunch to Trick on Jirachi. You have plenty of Gyara coverage (a lot more than my team and I never really had trouble with Gyara TBH). You need a better answer to last poke Crocune and last poke Cursepert (Roserade should be dead by then). It can also act as a last ditch Gyara save by Tricking the Scarf onto it and beating it with Latias. I see a slight Sp. Def Payback Forrey weak. It can spin with impunity since it can beat Rotom pretty easily due to your moveset and EV spread. I'd change HP fighting to Will-O-Wisp since I assume HP fighting is targeting Tar mainly and WOW will help you beat Forrey. Yes you can bluff Overheat (reason you are using Heat version) but typically stall team Rotom's dont use Overheat so a better player may stay in and Payback.
  9. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
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    nah you need hpfight to actually beat blissey. charge beam has only 50 base power and after +6 is still trash with 16 pp lol
  10. JLei2k

    JLei2k

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    Just a suggestion since I see a well played Forrey giving him headaches all over since Rotom is a bit fragile without WOW or Rest.
  11. mtr

    mtr

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    On a bad day, a Forretress will definitely give you trouble if it spams Payback and spins away your Toxic Spikes (so then comes in Blissey for walling), but not too many people will keep it in on a Rotom-H, because of the fear of Overheat.

    Very well made team. You just might have some trouble with pure stall, and that's only if you don't predict right. Maybe use a mono-attacker Latias, but that's really all I can think of.
  12. Famine.

    Famine.

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    Wow this team is really nice, one ofthe best i have seen. The only change i would make is Thunderbolt on jirachi, instead of Thunderpunch, since if a bulky switches in it wouldn't get OHKO'd, but that's not even important. Great Team
  13. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Trick is a nono, as Jirachi never wants to lose its Scarf and its ability to revenge kill. Also, since Gyara is never "coming in" on Jirachi, Thunderpunch is always better than Thunderbolt.

    Jirachi is really this team's ace in the hole, and shouldn't be changed at all.
  14. august

    august get a grip mothafucka
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    Good stuff Jabba, I used this team for a while and there were only 2 changes I made.

    I used 20 Spe on Skarmory to Roost off Choice Band Stone Edges from Tar, since you aren't really going to want to switch Jirachi into Stone Edges since it's your primary revenge killer.

    I also used the "metro pride" Jirachi with Thunderbolt over Thunderpunch and a Naive nature and ofcourse i kept the Scarf. I felt that you really needed something to hit Skarm other than TPunch cause Taunt Skarm is a bitch to your team and so are Spikes in general.

    In conclusion, excellent team, 5 stars boy.
  15. MetaNite

    MetaNite
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    This is certainly a very good team. However a few well played threats could give you quite a headache.

    Specially Defensive Forretress with Payback will really be annoying as it 2HKOes your Rotom-H and spins away your Spikes / T-Spikes. Once it sees Rotom set up a Sub, it'll know you won't have Overheat. The easiest way to help this is to give Blissey Flamethrower instead of Ice Beam. You'll probably decide against this since Salamence is even more troublesome, but it's an idea.

    Another problem would be McGar, the standard set I believe, which is Substitute / Focus Punch / Shadow Ball / HP Fire. That would be a reason to have Zapdos, but you definately can't replace Latias. Best thing I can suggest is giving Jirachi some Hit Points EVs so there is virtually no chance of it being 2HKOed by Hidden Power Fire. 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Speed will do it. You no longer Speed tie with Choice Scarf weilding positive nature base 100s however.

    The only other thing to suggest is an alternative EV spread on Rotom. 80 HP / 232 SpA / 196 Speed. This is enough Speed to beat Adamant Lucario, and enough HP EVs so most Blissey can't break your Substitute. You can also just max SpA and put 60 EVs in HP, but some Blissey will still break your sub occasionally.

    5 stars!
  16. Kevin Garrett

    Kevin Garrett is a competitor
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    This team is really awesome and I've had a lot of fun using it (thanks!). I'll just comment on a few things. August is absolutely right about giving Skarmory enough Spe to Roost on CBTar's Stone Edge. With Jirachi being the answer for just about any fast offensive threat, it shouldn't be used for switching into STAB Rock attacks.

    I'll plead my Shed Shell case for everyone here. I feel it's much better overall because Leftovers merit comes from staying in the game for a long time and taking several hits from Scizor's U-turn. You may lose consistent HP, but you'll never be without your Spiker. A lot of times on ladder, people will go right to Magnezone after I start Spiking on a lead Metagross and ruin any chances of longevity. It gives a nice switch to Blissey for setting up Stealth Rock.

    Mix/Body Slam/TWave Jirachi is my biggest problem because there's nothing really stopping it from hitting X amount of times until it gets some luck. Unless there are several layers of Spikes down, it can pretty much do what it pleases until it gets low enough in health for Jirachi to come in at a safe time. ANy other Jirachi sets aren't really a problem.

    5 stars from me.
  17. Reverb

    Reverb Aegislash is not broken
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    Blissey's Sp Atk should really hit 220 so it can break standard sub Rotom subs...overall amazing team

    Kevin got #1 using it which is a testament to it's awesomeness

    also do I need to be badged to give it 5 stars? cause if not I will

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