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Rotom-W (Analysis) [QC 3/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by JellyOs, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    [pimg]503[/pimg]
    [dex=rotom-w]Brotom-W[/dex]

    [Overview]

    • Nothing new in BW2
    • Awesome typing (One weakness, Flying-type resist, Ground immunity)
    • Face of VoltTurn offense
    • Works well on VoltTurn because of its typing's synergy with good U-turners like Scizor and Landorus
    • Soon-to-be awesome partner with Genesect
    • Not very veratile, but has a few options
    • Fits on most teams with little support

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Volt Switch
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Will-o-Wisp
    move 4: Pain Split / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    evs: 168 HP / 120 SpA / 220 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Good counter to very common new threats
    • Fits well on most teams
    • Volt Switch is awesome, obviously
    • Hydro Pump is a great move for Rotom-W
    • WoW is a good move for a bulky attacker like Rotom-W
    • Pain Split for good recovery and HP Ice for Dragons (Should I OO HP Ice?)
    • Tbolt is much more reliable and strong too

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Tbolt for a more reliable STAB over Pain Split
    • HP Grass for Gastro; use 140 SpA with this so you can net the 2HKO with rocks
    • Thunder Wave for para support
    • Discharge for Paralysis support
    • HP Fire?
    • Other spread w/ 252 HP / 252 Def to better counter some threats (Will have great emphasis in analysis)
    • S.Def set
    • 252 HP / 120 SpA / 48 SpD / 88 Spe for bulkier Rotom-W
    • Scizor as a partner helps with Dragons, Grass types and Blissey. Mamo serves this role well too
    • Tornadus-T outspeeds key threats and has U-turn
    • Good in VoltTurn cores
    • Wish support
    • Hazard support for switches caused by Volt Switch

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Volt Switch
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Trick / Thunderbolt
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • One of the best Volt Switch'ers around
    • Volt Switch is obvious
    • Hydro Pump is a strong, awesome move that has good coverage with VS
    • HP Ice revenges Dragons, but that's about it
    • Trick fucks with Blissey / Chansey / Stall in general
    • WoW is good for giving stuff Burns and crippling physical stuff but is also great after Trick is used
    • Thunderbolt is a generally good attacking move and lets you stay in with your Electric STAB

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Scarf is great for fast paced offense teams
    • Specs has good power in rain
    • Standard offensive spread beats 80+'s at +1
    • Also beats neutral Gyarados, Haxorus and Hydriegon
    • Modest and max Spe for more power
    • 252 HP on Specs
    • Awesome in rain with Hydro Pump's power
    • Use this if you're even considering VoltTurn
    • Thunder(bolt) over x move that's not HPump or VS
    • HP Fire on Specs for Ferro
    • Signal Beam for Celebi
    • WoW for Burn support and utility after Trick
    • Thunder over Thunderbolt in rain
    • Scizor / Genesect as a partner
    • Rapid Spin support so Rotom-W doesn't die to rocks, Forretress in good in this role with Volt Switch

    [Other Options]

    • Screens
    • SubSplit
    • ResTalk
    • ChestoRest
    • All-out offensive w/ Ebelt or LO
    • Signal Beam
    • HP Grass
    • Charge Beam

    [Checks and Counters]

    • Nacho's CC
    • Thundurus-T and Jolteon to absorb Volt Switches
    • Amoongus resists both Hydro Pump and Volt Switch
    • Hydriegon and Kyurem resists STABs and can spamm powerful Draco Meteors
  2. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    I think the choice set should be listed second now that amoonguss / thundurus-t are in OU. If you predict wrong with Volt switch thundurus can just set up and sweep you.

    Max speed is also relatively useless on scarf rotom. Use 42 hp / 252 SpA / 212 Spe Timid to outspeed Jolly Dnite at +1. The bulk isn't much but it's better than nothing.

    The bulky attacker set looks good but i would remove this sentence: "Fits well on most temas, although not as well as the Choice set". We shouldn't be talking down other sets on the analysis.

    *edit* Mention signal beam somewhere in here on the choice set to nail celebi. Oh, and consider adding an Ebelt and a Chesto Resto set. At the very least they deserve a mention in OO (probably just OO).
  3. dice

    dice practitioner of the city
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    Spread looks cool, hp fire wants slashed and scarf rotom wants modest imo.. I've been wandering why timid is preferred
  4. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    @Lamppost
    ._. How did I forget Ebelt? And I personally don't like ChestoRest, but I'll OO it. Choice changes made because you're pretty much right on that. AC'd Signal Beam in Choice and threw it in OO. Changed the sentance in Bulky.

    @Bri I think AC is good for HP Fire because it really only hits Ferro, who you can Trick anyway. And I do like Lamppost's spread but I'll AC Modest.
  5. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Yeah Amoonguss needs to be listed as a counter.

    Also, what happened to sub split? It was perfectly viable before, honestly I don't think the metagame changed enough to make it not.
  6. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    Adding Amoongus
  7. pie cream

    pie cream

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    uh shouldn't the health point evs be 40 or 44 not 42 on the choice set?
  8. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    Pulled it up to 44
  9. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    What's with the EV spread on the bulky attacker set? Please explain it more. I know you have "OHKOs Thundurus-T with Hydro Pump, but what about everything else? That said, it needs to run more Speed, IMO. Right now, you're getting outsped by Adamant Breloom and Modest Politoed, which is kind of iffy. The absolute minimum, IMO, is to outspeed Adamant Breloom and burn it before it does anything, but I'd just prefer to run enough to Speed to outspeed Jolly Breloom as well. That thing is quite common. So, I'd just say run 168 HP / 120 SpA / 220 Spe Modest on the bulky attacker.

    Also, why are we using Discharge on the bulky attacker? It can really interfere with Will-O-Wisp when you don't want it to (Breloom actually doesn't mind getting paralysed anywhere near getting burnt). I'd personally like to see Thunderbolt slashed instead of it, since it's stronger and more consistent. I'd also like to see Thunder or Thunderbolt slashed onto the Choice set too. Yes, I know Volt Switch is by far and away the best option, but I still like Thunderbolt's consistency and higher power, especially when you're dealing with shit like SubDD Gyarados.

    Also,

    That's not happening, like ever.
  10. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    Okay so the EV spread. I made it so he can ALWAYS OHKO Thundurus-T before rocks with Hydro Pump in Rain. I figure that's a good benchmark? After that I set the speed to 230, or 1 above 252 Spe Scizor so you can WoW or Hydro Pump before he tries to U-turn. I know 252 Spe Scizor rarely carries U-Turn, but before he uses Bug Bite or whatever too because he won't BP. After that I dumped the leftover in HP and SpD to tank Hurricanes better.
    Personally, I'd AC that spread because the main point of the set is to be bulky, rather than moderately bulky and fast. Although if it garners enough support I'll add it. I'll AC Discharge and replace it with Thunderbolt and put in a Thunder slash on choice.
    And I meant wall his Hurricanes! I'll change that though.
  11. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    I reserved it because of Rey's list D:
  12. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Oh he did? Sorry about that, you have my apologies.
  13. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    It's fine ;) any QC input on the analysis though?
  14. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Personally I actually rather like 160 HP / 120 SpA / 220 Spd Modest as well.

    Sure, I get that your spread is bulkier, however, there are quite a few threats that I would rather outspeed and cripple with a burn, than get outsped and KOed. Your spread for example, misses out on Modest Heatran, Adamant max Speed Dragonite (so CB for example, or Offensive DD), Adamant Mamoswine (which can kinda be more threatening to you now with Superpower / Stone Edge / Return, Max speed Gyarados, and +speed Politoed and Breloom. Quite frankly, with Breloom being such a threatening pokemon, I personally would at least like to burn it (you still die to Bullet Seed but w/e) instead of getting outspeed and OHKOed before I could do anything.

    Most of the above are physical attackers, and all hate a burn. Its not at all like you have NO bulk either, 168 HP is fine IMO.

    ALso ffs run Max speed on the Choice set. No-one runs 36 HP Haxorus now so you lose to max sped Haxorus (iirc) so might as well just max it unless those 44 Evs are really important for something.

    EDIT

    Might have missed something obvious as its 2 AM. May redo this post if I fucked it up.
  15. Nachos

    Nachos
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    I think you should keep the Checks and Counters section that I wrote not so long ago. It includes pretty much every viable answer to Rotom-W, with the obvious exception of the BW2 additions that need to be added, which are namely: Amoonguss, Roost Hydregion, Roost Kyurem, Technician Breloom and Thundurus-T getting a free switch in on choiced sets locked on an electric move. For reference, here is the section:

    Show Hide
    Rotom-W's biggest problems tend to be Grass-types with good bulk, as well as specially defensive behemoths, particularly Chansey, Blissey, and Latias. Celebi is a common answer to Rotom-W as it resists both Rotom-W's STAB moves and doesn't mind Will-O-Wisp due to Natural Cure. Celebi can take a Hidden Power Fire nicely and retaliate with a STAB Grass-type move of choice. Other Pokemon in this category include Ferrothorn, who can set up Stealth Rock and Spikes on it, and then use Power Whip. Ferrothorn is also commonly seen on rain teams, which will reduce the damage output of Hidden Power Fire. However, Ferrothorn must be cautious of being burned by Will-O-Wisp. Virizion can come in on anything and destroy Rotom-W with Giga Drain due to its good Special Defense. Breloom sets are viable switch-ins, although a Breloom with no Special Defense EVs must watch out for boosted Hydro Pumps in the rain. Gastrodon with Storm Drain can come in on basically anything Rotom-W has apart from Hidden Power Grass, and use Toxic to wear down Rotom-W. It should be noted that a lot of these Pokemon hate being Tricked a Choice Scarf, and the player should be cautious when deciding what set Rotom-W might be by looking at Team Preview, or alternatively noting the presence or lack of Leftovers recovery after Rotom-W takes residual damage.

    Chansey and Blissey stop Rotom-W cold in pretty much every way possible and can simply Toxic it, meaning it will struggle to repeatedly sponge hits from the likes of Politoed in the rain. Chansey and Blissey should watch out for Pain Split when they switch in, as it will significantly heal Rotom-W who has a low base HP stat. As with the above counters, they need to be cautious of Trick too. Latias can come in on Rotom-W due to resistances and simply Calm Mind and set up all over it, while all Rotom-W can do in return is Will-O-Wisp.

    Rotom-W also has to watch out for immensely powerful attacks from faster Pokemon such as Choice Band Terrakion, who will put the washing machine out of commission with a Close Combat. Fighting-type friends, such as Infernape, can do a big chunk to Rotom-W with Close Combat too. Latios can come in on any move and use Draco Meteor to OHKO Rotom-W and dent anything else that decides to switch in. Lum Berry Dragonite can set up on Rotom-W with Dragon Dance and then smash it with Outrage. Jolteon can come in on Volt Switch or Thunderbolt, which will truly throw a spanner in the machine if Rotom-W is running a Choice set. Specially defensive Ninetales isn't too bad of an option either, although you should be cautious not to switch it in too many times, especially if Stealth Rock is up. On the subject of sun, Venusaur is another friendly face Rotom-W would hate to see, as it comes in on anything but Hidden Power Fire. Substitute and Protect Gliscor can stall out Rotom-W's Hydro Pump, then cripple it with Toxic as it fails to do anything worthwhile.

    Generally, what makes Rotom-W most frustrating to counter is its access to Volt Switch, as well as its immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. For that reason, it's hard to "nail" Rotom-W down, but a combination of Stealth Rock, any other potential residual damage, hitting it hard with STAB moves as it switches in, and having something to take Volt Switch comfortably can usually take down the eccentric washing machine.
  16. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    Ginga, I'll change the spread when I get home; I'll AC mine.
    Nachos, thanks :D I'd love to use that.
    edit:changes made
  17. muhola

    muhola

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    Does Hidden Power Grass deserve an AC in the Choice set or at least an OO?
  18. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    OO but only because of the absence of Gastro but it might come up
  19. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    You're missing 8 EVs on the bulky attacker, by the way. It should be 168 HP. Also, like ginga said, can we please run max Speed on the Choice set please? I doubt 44 HP doesn't really help you survive anything of note, so you may as well run max Speed.
  20. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    @Shrang, I forgot to change it and I'll put the extra 8 evs on ginga's spread
  21. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    [Overview]

    ~ I'm on the fence about mentioning Genesect. It will be released in the near future, but it's not released yet.

    ~ Heavy heavy emphasis on Rotom-W's role in Volt-Turn teams. It pairs well with Landorus and Scizor, because it can switch into Fire, Ice, and Water hits that are aimed towards them. Rotom-W is also an answer to Landorus / Scizor counter, such as Skarmory, Heatran, Hippowdon, Jellicent, etc.

    [Bulky Attacker]

    ~ Volt Switch is too good to pass up on the Bulky set, imo. Volt Switch should be a staple on practically all Rotom-W sets. If you really want that extra electric stab that doesn't force Rotom-W to switch, I'd slash it with Pain Split.

    ~ HP Grass deserves an AC mention since it cock-blocks Rotom-W's Volt Switch forever, and you actually have to use prediction now, lol. 140 SpA EVs guarantees the 2HKO on 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon with Rocks.

    ~ AC Mention Thunder Wave; it's good to cripple dragons and non-natural cure grass switch-ins. Doesn't help much against Scizor, though, so HP Fire may be desirable on this Rotom-W.

    ~ Not sure if Wish support is THAT necessary for Rotom-W, but it certainly does not hurt.

    ~ Like any Volt-Turn mons, hazard support are nice to rack up damages when you force switches. Ferrothorn and Deoxys-D are good examples here.

    ~ Wants something that can deal with Dragons, Grass, Blissey, and Gastrodon. Scizor helps with the former three; Mamoswine and your own Dragons are good for the former two. Grass-types or Dragon-types that can shrug off Scalds are also good for taking care of Gastrodon. Tornadus-T is great as Rotom-W's Volt-turn partner for checking Grass-types as well - it can also checkmate Dragons with its faster Specs / LO Hurricane.

    [Choice]

    ~ Will-O-Wisp should not be slashed with HP Ice, which is essential to revenge-kill dragons. Wisp is more worthy of an AC mention. If Wisp really needs to be on the main set, then slash it with Trick / Thunder, but I won't recommend it

    ~ Why Thunder? Scarf / Specs Rotom-W are fully functional outside of Rain teams, especially Scarf. Drop Thunder as an AC mention for Rain teams.

    ~ Replace Thunder with Thunderbolt to better revenge-kill Gyarados

    ~ Mention that with Timid Nature Rotom-W also outpaces Gyarados, Haxorus, and Hydreigon if they have are running neutral Speed Nature.

    ~ You DON'T need to use this in Rain.

    [Other Options]

    ~ Charge Beam is worth an AC mention to boost its SpA

    [Checks and Counters]

    ~ Umm Tornadus-T does not check / counter Rotom-W at all

    ~ Elaborate that Thundurus-T / Jolteon is specifically to discourage Rotom-W from spamming Volt Switch. Switching in on Hydro Pump will end them.

    ~ Mention Amoonguss, which can switch in to Rotom-W with impunity, thanks to Regenerator.

    ~ Also Hydreigon and Kyurem if it's not included in Nachos Checks and Counters.
  22. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Interesting, I just cotrolled-Fed and found no rapid spin mention. Rotom-W should definitely have that unless it wants to slowly die to stealth rock against defensive teams. The biggest problem is that as a water type it doesn't work well with starmie, making Forretress or Donphan better options for spin support. Forretress usually runs volt switch which makes people feel that it is actually part of a volt-turn system which I guess makes it a better partner than Donphan, Donphan has a nice offensive touch though.
  23. PrezEvil

    PrezEvil

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    Donphan isn't a very good partner for Rotom-W, since they both have a grass weakness and Donphan doesn't deal with most of Rotom-W's counters well.
  24. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    Pocket's changes made.
    I only included Tornadus-T in that because they were the two most game changing new threats and he outspeeds non-scarf so I think he gets a little mention.
  25. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    [qc](1/3)[/qc]

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