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RU Initial Banlist

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Nails, Oct 4, 2011.

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  1. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    Since RU was created in May, we haven't done any sort of banning. This was due to a desire to let the tier "rotate" once, as up until now the UU usage stats that RU was based off of weren't reflective of what Pokemon UU actually had (Charizard and Sawsbuck in UU for example). The original intent was to rotate the tier in July after three months of usage stats had accumulated. Due to technical difficulties with the server, we haven't had any sort of usage stats to work with, and so we were stuck in a metagame with multiple vastly overpowered threats that we had no ability to remove. However, thanks to Antar, we now have new usage stats to work with and can create an initial banlist.

    The following Pokemon will be up for discussion. Do not discuss any other Pokemon for banning; the list has been made to be as exclusive as possible while still banning the Pokemon that are too powerful.
    Code:
    Yanmega
    Venomoth
    Omastar
    Gorebyss
    Huntail
    If you feel like a Pokemon on this list should not be there, post about it, but be sure to back up anything you post with sound reasoning. If there is not very significant opposition to any of the pokemon listed, they will be banned. This is not up for a vote.

    This thread will close on Wednesday, October 5 at 11:59 PM, at which point the bans will take effect.
    Hot N Cold likes this.
  2. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Frankly I dont think any of them are ban-worthy. A well-constructed team will either have ways to deal with them while also executing their own strategy or will use them as part of their own strategy. For example, Cryogonal with Haze stops all of them pretty well.
  3. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
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    I don't have much to say about Yanmega. I think it should go.

    Moth I am not as sure about. I don't think it is as potent as Mega. Personally I would like to see it for a bit after Mega is gone, but if it does go, I don't think it would be terrible.

    Omastar I do not know enough about to really say, though I personally have very little problem with it. Even if it gets a Smash in it is slow as hell and easily picked off. In rain it can be a problem, but outside of that it is not a problem at all.

    Gorbyss and Huntail don't even deserve to be on this list. I never see them, and when I do they don't do anything. Especially Huntail. Get them off this list. Smash Pass is overrated.

    Ban: Yanmega
    Maybe Ban: Venomoth
    Do Not Ban: Omastar, Gorbyss
    Why is this even on here: Huntail

  4. ASteelersMidget

    ASteelersMidget

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    I totally agree with Texas Cloverleaf.

    Everyone of them has counters. It's more an issue of team building.

    Besides the large threat (Cresselia) is already UU!
  5. waterwarrior

    waterwarrior

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    Hmm... I'd like to see the tier without Gorebyss before banning Huntail. I know they're practically the same as a SmashPasser, but its not as threatening without passing to to someone else. Huntail with a Smash just isnt as scary as Gorebyss with a Smash due to the movesets being completely different, due to Huntail almost being forced to run mixed in order to get needed coverage, while Gorebyss has the stronger Surf/Hydro Pump, a stronger Ice Beam, and a reliable Hidden Power.
  6. NatGeo

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    smashpass is an extremely potent strategy when played right, and it's not that hard to do so with gorebyss. Huntail im not sure about since I haven't used him, but definitely Gorebyss needs to stay on there.

    I would say Alakazam because magic guard but I guess we'll wait until the new stats come out.
  7. Fried Rhys

    Fried Rhys

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    Having a check doesn't mean somethings not broken. That's not to mention Cryogonal isn't the best check anyway, as it's an easily Pursuited, Stealth Rock weak Pokemon, that doesn't do so hot against those Pokemon anyway.

    Yanmega: Cryogonal has to run Speed to beat Specs variants reliably and has to run max Special Defense to take on Life Orb Speed boost sets.

    Venomoth: It can Sleep Cryogonal so you're forced to predict when your opponent will sleep, and will in all likelihood have to carry 2-3 mons that can beat it after one takes the sleep.

    Huntail: Just outright KOes Cryogonal with a +2 Waterfall.

    Gorebyss: Cryogonal is an alright check here.

    Omastar: Hardly ever loses to Cryogonal. Even if Cryogonal lives the first +2 Attack, you'll have taken enough damage for another +2 Surf/Hydro Pump to finish you off after you Recover, as Ice Beam will not come near a KO, and you're faster, so you won't be able to Haze a second time.

    Omastar can be picked off by priority and Scarfers, but White Herb makes it to where physical scarfers and priority attacks will have a very tough time doing that. This isn't to mention the fact that it is still a good hazard layer, so if you leave that Pokemon in to hit a -2 Def Omastar, you could instead be hazard fodder.

    The second part...I just don't know. Gorebyss is able to sweep like Omastar can, but has the ability to Baton Pass the boosts away even if you do have something that can take a hit from it. Huntail is also pretty threatening with +2 Attack and speed, and while that makes it an alright sweeper at best, it's the ability to pass those boosts on when in trouble that makes it broken. I do concede that it's not as broken as Gorebyss, however.
  8. Omicron

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    Venomoth and Yanmega are easily two of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier, as are Gorebyss and Huntail. However, out of the four mention, I feel that only Yanmega, Venomoth, and Gorebyss are worth banning, as Huntail is never seen, and is less powerful than Gorebyss after a boost. Yanmega and Venomoth are undoubtedly broken in the RU tier, and they make it extremely easy to plow through the opposition. Sleep Powder + Quiver Dance + Tinted Lens is just ridiculous. And Yanmega either outspeeds the entire metagame after one or two boosts or has no safe switch-ins except Munchlax and a select few others that serve virtually no other purpose, thanks to Tinted Lens + Choice Specs. Gorebyss is just... BP and Shell Smash? Too much. Too much. But for some reason, I don't think Huntail is worthy of banning. Omastar, while it is extremely powerful after a boost, I don't think it is quite ready to leave RU yet. With the introduction of Prankster Volbeat / Sableye, it can easily get shut down with priority Thunder Wave / Taunt, respectively. Although it can be argued that Venomoth and Yanmega can be dealt with in a similar manner, they are simply too powerful for RU in general, and virtually every team needs something to check them, otherwise they run rampant. So long story short, Ban Gorebyss, Venomoth, and Yanmega, but Do Not Ban Huntail and Omastar.
  9. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    Could you please elaborate on why you don't think huntail is worthy of banning? All you say is "I don't think it should be banned for some reason". Your statement carries almost no weight when it's not backed up.
  10. BattleStar

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    Interesting, I never thought it would be carried out.

    My team frankly has no problem with them.
    Accelgor is another big answer to all of these. He can KO Yanmega with HP Rock and can 2 Ko Venamoth with HP Rock.

    Huntail and Gorbyss are not that threatening. There Chain can be stop easily with a Roar, Dragon Tail, Haze etc. Many pokemon in RU have access to those.

    I however support Omastar ban, I just do not like that thing.

    However I support either end of who gets banned and who does not.
    The only thing I am against is this messing up the tier. But probably not :)

    Ban- Venomoth should be banned. It is just uncompetive. Sleep Powder is annoying. And I believe it is even more broken than Yanmega.
  11. Heysup

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    Yanmega: Ban

    Even if you can't spin, it's going to come in 3 times and most likely KO 3 things. Barely anything can take its Bug Buzz because of all of the other mons that are stuck in UU who usually counter it.

    Venomoth: Ban

    Venomoth is uncompetitive in my opinion, but otherwise just simply broken. Without considering Sleep Powder, Venomoth is still too hard to handle due to its moderate bulk, Speed, and power. Sleep Powder + Quiver Dance is kind of absurd because you basically have a .75x1x.5.x.33 (iirc that's how sleep works...) chance to win the game right then and there.

    Omastar: Don't Ban

    Oh hell no, this thing is pretty lame. Shell Smash users are very overrated but especially Omastar who is actually weak to the ever-common Mach Punch. It's not that fast either, some Scarfers outpace it.

    Gorebyss: Maybe

    This thing is more legit than Omastar because it doesn't have that ridiculous Mach Punch weakness, but still after a Shell Smash a tickle of a priority attack will kill it. The best Shell Smashers are all weak to Electric, fyi.

    Huntail: Maybe

    Read above. Literally the exact same opinion, same problems, same strengths.
  12. bro fist

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    In agreement with having those 3 pokemon with shell smash on here, frankly they're just too strong after a +2 boost in their offensive stats. Not to mention Gorebyss and Huntail with the ability to pass this boost. Very good choice. Yanmega and Venomoth are also pretty much no-brainers imo.

    Mons to look for with these bans in effect: Alakazam, Honchkrow and Liligant.

    Edit: @Heysup: Shell Smashers are commonly known to carry white herb, so it's not a guaranteed -1 on their defenses when they use the move. Negating their defense drop in combination with their already high base defenses doesn't make priority a sure check.
  13. Foxy Grandpa

    Foxy Grandpa

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    Venomoth:
    Venomoth is broken in the RU Tier, with access to Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance, and Tinted Lens it's just too much too much to handle. All of the pokemon who can handle it just get slept and set up on (The exception is Munchlax). You can't even wall it with resists due to tinted lens. IMO, it needs to go.

    Omastar:
    I would like to see Omastar in a tier without Venomoth. While it's power after a Shell Smash is ridiculous, the -1 to its defenses really hurt it. You can use White Herb but in my experiences, it sorely misses the extra power that Life Orb provides. Just as everyone else has said, it's outpaced by fast pokemon and Scarfers even after a Smash.

    Gorrebyss and Huntail:
    Although, Gorrebyss is a one trick pony, and is stopped by common phazers (Munchlax, Drapion, etc.) I think that it needs to go. While all it's supposed to do is SmashPass, it's just too threatening even before it passes the boosts. Huntail, while in a similar boat, doesn't deserve to be banned just yet. The main reason for this is that Huntail just doesn't have to movepool in order to be threatening. I would like to see how the tier plays out with just Huntail.

    Yanmega:
    While I personally don't believe that Yanmega is broken per say, I think that it is unhealthy for the metagame. Yes, it is walled by pokemon such as Munchlax, but it restricts offensive teams to run obscure checks such as Soundproof Electrode for example. Overall, it forces more teams to have a stallish nature and makes offense almost nonviable.

    Ban:Venomoth, Yanmega, Gorrebyss
    Do Not Ban:Omastar, Huntail
  14. Windsong

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    bro fist summarizes my thoughts on the matter regarding shell smashers nicely; I just feel that the +2/2/2 boost is downright ridiculous, especially considering that multiple shell smashers have the ability to pass those boosts as well as sweep with them.

    Anyways, I'm definitely angling towards a ban on Yanmega. Its existence in the tier alone is enough to heavily cripple most offense, since most offense loses a mon every time Specsmega switches in or the offense team is forced to run weird obscure counters that have no use other than for beating Yanmega basically, many of which lose to certain Yanmega sets. For a similar reason, I'd say ban Venomoth. It's basically Yanmega but more dangerous to balance and stall oriented teams while being slightly less dangerous to offense teams (though it still can fuck up hyper offense really badly if they don't get screens up). Hell, it eventually reaches the point where having stuff that Venomoth can grab a Quiver Dance on becomes a liability, since then it gets another Quiver Dance basically for free thanks to Sleep Powder and then can sweep or pass the boosts as it pleases.
  15. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Yanmega: Ban

    Yanmega is extremely powerful, the few pokemon that can check it are just eviolite mons and/or don't have much use outside of checking Yanmega. All of them lack reliable recovery and can be worn down pretty easily. Yanmega can also easily muscle through teams.

    Venomoth: Ban

    It's not it's sweeping potential that makes Venomoth so threatening, it's the fact that it can easily set up quiver dances and pass it away via baton pass thanks to it's decent bulk and Sleep Powder. You practically have to carry multiple phazers to reliably stop Venomoth or phazers with sleep talk, which isn't as good of a move as it used to be. Venomoth also has a surprisingly good attacking prowess.

    Gorrebyss and Huntail: Ban

    Shell Smash+Baton Pass is just too much for this tier, especially with all the threatening swepers and the fact Gorrebyss+Huntail can easily sweep themselves. Just banning Gorrebyss won't really solve the problem much as Huntail is nearly as good as Gorrebyss at it's job, just a little weaker on the special side.

    Omastar: Do not ban

    While I think everyone who is saying Omastar should not be banned are really under-estimating Omastar (It outspeeds one of the most common scarfers who has a respectable base 95 speed, Krookodile after 1 shell smash.), I don't think it's broken. It has it's fair share of counters: Poliwrath, Hitmonchan, Slowking, Gurdurr, Ferroseed, Gallade, Hariyama, Clefable (Especially unaware varients) and Lanturn. Also, it has some trouble setting up. The fact that there are quite a few good mach punch also doesn't help Omastar.
  16. Brophlosion

    Brophlosion

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    Yanmega: Ban

    I've run him in every single team i've made and i've been playing RU since it's release. As much as I love him, I know he is too unbalanced to be in RU. When you have to put counters into your team to just deal with a pokemon you know will be in 80% of the teams you face it's a problem. People say that his huge weakness to Stealth Rocks makes him unusable, But that weakness doesn't even matter if you aren't fast enough to hit him , and he 1 shots entire teams with his great type coverage while hacking down the opponent with Speed Boost, as well as other moves that take less skill to use than any other pokemon in the tier.

    Yanmega's biggest threat in my opinion is his late game sweeping potential. After you kill the at most 1 or 2 things that could possibly be in their team that keep him in check all you need to do is use detect once, Speed Boost procs and there is a high chance you will just sweep the rest of your opponents team with it.

    I personally use a Speed Boost Yanmega with a Focus Sash, But other competitive alternatives are Tinted Lens with Choice Specs. The reason I'm nominating Yanmega is mostly for his access to the "Speed Boost" ability. If it were possible to keep him with only Tinted Lens I would be in favor of that. But thats not how we do things here :(

    Yanmega also has the access to hacks moves, such as Hypnosis, Air Slash, and AncientPower(Yes, It counts) Giving it even more of a reason to get the ban hammer. Hypnosis has the power to win a game straight up. It leaves the game up to chance. Which is a game I don't want to play.

    Whether it's a Life Orb, Focus Sash, Choice Specs, or any other competitive item, Yanmega is deadly with any of them. If you guys need more of a reason I feel that I can go all day if I have to. He is just too good to be in RU

    As for the others up for nomination. I think they are balanced enough to stay around, for this round at least.
  17. Pombo

    Pombo

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    Yanmega: As many people know, I (Ephraim and Pombo) used to run a timid specsmega, and though it was broken due to the havoc it caused. It was basically a living iron ball. However, in the last days i changed to stall and discovered the yanmega is handable by a lot of special walls. Cryogo, Clefable, Munchlax, Golbat, Lickytung.... all of those can take yanmega's hits nd threaten it. Not to mention the obvious weakness to SR, which, even though can be prevented, is still present and some teams can ensure they will be layed.

    Venomoth:
    Frail. Suscetible to spikes + SR. Lacks coverage. And, even though, broken IMO. I see it as RU's volcarona, but it has bug buzz + tinted lens to provide it "unresisted" coverage with 1 move. Also, it has instant recovery in the form of roost, and the ability to BP its boosts to PZ/Cresselia/Alakazam. On top of that, it can creep your counter/abuse mindgames with Sleep Powder. Broken.

    Gorebyss and Huntail: I can say it with proud: with over 500 RU battles, i NEVER lost to a smashpassing team. Never. Ever. I always managed to beat them, in the most diverse ways. Usage should determine their tier, IMO.

    Omastar:
    Just like Yanmega, a threat, but not a broken one. Is relatively slow and need 1 turn of setup. Ferroseed can take it all day long, and the mons i used as an option to check Yanmega can do the same to Omastar, bar Golbat.

    Ok, so all those pokemon ARE threatening. You have to prepare yourself against them. But there ARE ways to check and counter them, not to mention revenge. The only exception is Yanmega who, evne though i manage to deal with most times, is almost impossible to beat with proper team support.

    I would like to mention that Honchkrow and Alakazam (even though he is going to OU really soon) are close to broken, if not broken, IMO.
    Honch acts pretty much as Mence in Gen IV. Specific sets can be beaten, but switch in the wrong counter once and you are damned. There are ways to play around this, of course (team preview being the best way), but its still too strong for the tier.

    GUYS, DO YOU WANT A SUREFIRE TO YANMEGA? RUN SDEF CLEFABLE/LICKITUNG AND THUNDER WAVE IT. OR MUNCHLAX. OR GOLBAT AND BRAVE BIRD. OR CRYOGONAL AND ICE BEAM. OR SCARFTRES AND FIRE BLAST. OR STEALTH ROCK + A GHOST WITH TOXIC.
  18. Brophlosion

    Brophlosion

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    If Yanmega hacks them with Hypnosis/Air Slash they can't attack it. and none of those things can easily swap IN on Yanmega. Some Yanmega carry Substitute instead of detect too. So that stops all status moves. after 1 turn Yanmega outspeeds Scarf Moltres, and it's usually so obvious when the opponent is going to use Stealth Rocks. Just swap in when they use it.
  19. Amarillo

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    I don't have internet in 5 minutes so making this short:

    Yanmega: I thought the point was not that 'you can check / counter with a special wall' but that the generic special walls don't do a darn thing to get your momentum up, maybe other than Golbat (which can taunt / use annoying moves) Stuff like Clefable are bound to be haxed by Special Defense drop, and don't you say that Clefable and Munchlax are viable in an offensive team--they aren't. That being said, this thing ain't broken. It's just that a Yanmega team with good support to abuse those squishy special walls is broken.

    Venomoth: Downright uncompetitive. It's just a matter of getting how many sleep turns. ==

    Omastar: Can't believe that there's a talk about banning this... I know that this thing is ridiculously good, but most special walls can check it, and most scarfers outspeed after the smash (unless you're timid, in which case special walls flat out counter). If you run White Herb (or whatever restores your stats), then you won't get past bulky stuff. If you run Life Orb, priority > you.
  20. Foster

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    Ban Venomoth, and don't ban the others

    Venomoth: You can lead with him and potentially win the match right there. It gets +1 speed thanks to focus sash/ favorable match up, sleeps somthing, sets up more and passes. Not to mention it is immune to fake out's flinch (with shield dust) and resists mach punch. If it was passing shell smash this may be a different story, but quiver dance is just unfair as it only gets easier to set up.

    Yanmega: Very close to deserving a ban, but imo not quite there. There are several special walls that can take on Yanmega successfully, the tinted lens set is easily revenged, and stealth rock + smart play with a ghost type absolutely ruin Yanmega.

    Omastar: Again, close to being worthy of a ban. However, as Heysup pointed out, it can still be revenged at +2 speed, is weak to priority, and some special wall can handle it.

    Gorebyss/Huntail: It might just be me, but a decent team and smart play always gets me a win vs smashpass teams. Doesn't mean these two should be overlooked though.
  21. Byrn Dragonstone

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    Yanmega: Ban
    Really shouldn't have to explain this one. Completely centralizes the Metagame. Most other threats in the tier are actually lost due to the prevalence of it.

    Venemoth: Don't Ban
    I want to see a Metagame without the other big bug around before I make a decision on this one. I have never had a problem with it before. Hit it hard before it sleeps you, switch to another hard hitter and it dies. If your aren't running offense then you have Munchlax, who walls this guy to Timbuktu and back. Would be more of a threat if it didn't have massive Moveslot Syndrome.

    SmashPass: Don't Ban
    There is no threat here. Hit Gorybyss or Huntail with a relatively strong electric/grass move and they will die unless they are running massive defensive investment. If they aren't they are dead and you move on. If they survive then you hit whatever comes in and kill it, or wound it severely, then pick it off with priority, which there is now limit to in this tier. I only see this even on here due to poor team building and poor game playing.

    Omastar: Don't Ban
    Why is this guy even up there? Is he any good at all? Never have I ever had any issues with him. Slow as crap after a ShellSmash and any grass move will kill it instantly. Priority picks it off easily after the Smash, even with White Herb, and if it does run the herb it loses out on lots of power. There is so much wrong with Omastar I have no clue why he is even on here. Torkoal is almost as threatening a Shellsmasher as him, at least it lacks a huge 4x weakness.
  22. LeviLamprey

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    WHAT TO BAN (YAY THE ONLY TIER I AM KNOWLEDGEABLE OF)
    Venomoth:
    Fuck this thing. It isn't like Masquerain, where it just dies before it can do anything, due to a lack of Sleep Powder and poor stats (ditto Mothim). It isn't like Lilligant, who has terrible issues with coverage and a lack of Baton Pass. It has Tinted Lens, or can bluff it and run COmpundeyes to Sleep, and with a Sash will almost ALWAYS get a QDance up. THen BP or simply sweep on the spo. Not as broken as Cress IMO but damn broken for RU when it can kill EVERYTHING and has no 100% reliable threats.

    Omastar: Bitch please. Not a threat at all. Special walls or Sash users like Cresselia or Grumpig can counter it even after a SS, and it isn't THAT fast. Plus, DEM weaknesses. It is powerful, but FAR from banworthy. People who have trouble with it just have unbalanced teams or bad luck or something.

    Yanmega: Ain't THAT bad, it's certainly on the upped end of RU, but its power relies on its team build to succeed. It can lure in special attackers and then send out its special wall buddy eg Munchlax to troll the opponent into next July. It may have immediate power, but it also has immediately lost HP if it stays in on a special attack. And for a Pokemon that often needs to switch to support, a 4x SR weakness is destructively crippling.

    Huntail/Gorebyss: DOn't ban these either. In the time they take to SS they can be dead thanks to a fairly poor Specal Defense or have their opponent setting up a CM, SD, SUb etc. They're threats, and can be powerful by themselves or give that power to a teammate, but there's just something underhwhelming about fighting them. IDK.
  23. Tyranitarphantom

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    Yanmega: Ban
    A Pokemon with a ton of potential problems, but it isn't too hard to overcome it's problems with a bit of team support, allowing it to rip through just about everything. Such a pain to deal with reasonably, and nobody would miss it

    Venomoth: Ban
    It's not to hard for Venomoth to find a free turn to set up a Quiver Dance, after which it can proceed to Sleep something, get more boosts, and break through everything, or give the boosts to something else, which will also smash everything. Probably the single best Pokemon in the tier, and such a pain to deal with.

    Omastar: Do Not Ban
    If you're unprepared for it, Omastar will destroy you. However, it really isn't that hard to get ready for it. If it had the ability to Pass it, it would probably be ban-worthy, but at the moment, I don't believe it is

    Gorebyss: Ban
    If given a single turn to Shell Smash, it has the ability to rip through almost everything by itself. It's boosts getting passed to something like Alakazam, Porygon-Z, or other big threats is a really big problem, but is predictable. However, the fact that it can use the boosts itself to dominate is what puts it over the edge.

    Huntail: Maybe Ban
    The only one I'm not sure on. Overall, has the same function as Gorebyss, but it's offensive stats, while more balanced, allowing it to go mixed, are not as immediately threatening as Gorebyss' stats. Simply because it can SmashPass, it might be banworthy, but unlike Gorebyss, it can't easily sweep by itself, and in the current metagame, nobody uses it over Gorebyss, so I'm not sure.
  24. Scoopapa

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    Venomoth: Ban

    I don't know about uncompetitive, since it's not like the only way of beating it requires you to keep a sleeping pokemon in against it. Broken yes, though. Sleep Powder is almost a free boost, and at that point you have to hit it from the physical side to kill it quickly (not killing it quickly or phazing it means death). Most physically offensive pokemon are weak on the special defense side, so taking a boosted bug buzz is a tough proposition, and of course it's faster than most everything after one boost as well. RU has no shortage of good Special pokemon who can wreck everything with a Quiver Dance under its best. Even tanks like Taunt Samurott become godly sweepers at +1/+1/+1. If you get two boosts then forget about it.

    Yanmega: Ban

    I'm not 100% sure this is broken (as opposed to just massively centralizing) but I'm not going to complain about it's suspect status because this thing makes building a team kind of a bitch. Not the hardest to counter, but you have to use shit you really don't want to use. Most of the things that do wall it will die if they get a Special Defense drop from Bug Buzz, and those that 4x resist can't switch in on Air Slash. Speed Boost is easier to wall but it fucks any speed based strat badly.

    Omastar, Gorebyss, Huntail: Do not ban

    Since when were these overpowering? The metagame is so full of boosting Special sweepers that stuff like Haze Cryogonal and Special Defense Blastoise are great even on balanced teams. The only kind of teams that aren't generally prepared for these types of shenanigans are super offensive ones; the kind that make it really hard to set this stuff up and usually carry priority to clean it up if it does. I understand that they don't want to bother with suspect testing for this but when something is suddenly on the chopping block that makes so many of us say ".....whaa?" (especially Omastar) I really want to know how this decision was reached. I'm not going to go so far as to say these are bad or not threatening but considering that they all have rather dismal Special Defense it's not exactly easy to set them up. I'm not going to say these are terrible, but at this point in the metagame if you can't deal with these then you are probably going to lose a majority of matches to other special threats. Sure many of these may be leaving us (Yanmega, Venomoth, Cresselia) and the metagame may shift to a point where these are harder to deal with, but right now it's not the case; and we shouldn't be banning something based on what we think will happen to the metagame in the future.
  25. Choice Socks

    Choice Socks

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    215
    Yanmega: Not Ban
    At the start of RU I would've loved to see this thing banned, but as people discovered more and more counters to it, such as Munchlax it quickly became more manageable. The speed boost set does not have anywhere near enough power to sweep through all but the most beaten down teams. The SpecsLens set is what leans this pokemon over the broken line, but the fact that it is choice locked, outsped by a lot of other pokemon and needs team support to allow it to keep switching in and out makes me wonder if its worth it, seeing as if I see Yanmega in the team preview I make it my absolute goal to keep rocks on the field, keeping it in check.

    Venomoth: Ban
    Shockingly I've seen a lot less of venomoth than I did after the initial hype of it, and I have no Clue why. If anything in this tier is broken it is undoubtedly Venomoth. It has everything it needs to be the most threatening set up sweeper in the tier. Sleep, QD (best boosting move in the game), Tinted Lens (fantastic sweeping ability), the ability to baton pass its boosts to more threatening sweepers such as Zam, and finally recovery moves. Also as an added bonus, absorbs toxic spikes... Ban.
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