1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

RU Pokemon of the Week: Cinccino

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Jellicent, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. EonX

    EonX Rise Above
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,907
    Definitely agreeing on pretty much everything Molk had to say about Golurk. Since Molk covered the set I was going to cover, I guess I'll mention some good teammates for Golurk.

    Ferroseed: While Golurk is a Ghost-type, it struggles against the top 2 spinners in the tier; Kabutops and Cryogonal. Enter Ferroseed. Thanks to its Grass/Steel typing, it walls Kabutops for days and it fares very well against Cryogonal as well. Ferroseed offers Spikes, Thunder Wave, and Leech Seed support for Golurk as well as a resistance to Water-, Dark-, Ghost-, and Grass-type moves. Thunder Wave support may seem odd, but Golurk plays a lot like Rhydon does; setup SR and then dent stuff with that high base Attack stat. Give it paralysis support and Golurk can suddenly break down the opposing team with relative ease.

    Braviary: Although they share an Ice weakness, Braviary and Golurk have surprisingly good synergy together. Golurk is immune to Electric attacks and resists Rock-type moves while Braviary is immune to Ghost-type attacks and resists Grass-type moves. Golurk is perfectly capable of forcing the likes of Rhydon and Steelix out while hammering away on most physical walls in RU to set the stage for a Choice Scarf Braviary late-game sweep.

    Escavalier: While Golurk can do nothing for Escavalier's Fire weakness, it can give Escavalier some very easy switch-in opportunities. Escavlaier resists Ghost-, Dark-, and Ice-type moves as well as having a 4x resist to Grass-type attacks. Thanks to this, Golurk can easily fall back on Escavlier when it's forced out and Escavalier can keep up the offensive pressure that Golurk started to impose before being forced out, thus making these two a very potent wallbreaking duo.

    Swellow: This is pretty much like Braviary with the exception being Swellow's extreme frailty. Still though, Golurk can give Swellow a rare switch-in opportunity by drawing in a Grass- or Ghost-type move which is usually easy enough for Swellow to come in on since most Grass-types switching into Golurk are more defensive. Like with Braviary, Golurk matches up well against many of Swellow's checks and can easily take them out or force them to take another round of hazards damage.
  2. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    460
    (Nice to see ya running this HnC n_n)
    Golurk is a really cool Pokemon, so I guess I'll list some ways to stop it!

    Pursuit Users: Spiritomb and Absol can OHKO Golurk with Pursuit after switching in on a (obvious) Stealth Rock and Pursuiting.

    Physical Walls: Most notable Alomomola and Tangrowth can take anything Golurk has to throw at it (although CB Golurk gets close to 2HKOing Alomomola, while it has a small chance to 2HKO Tangrowth). Tangrowth can definitely dent Golurk up a bit with an SE move like Giga Drain, although it takes a beating back depending on the set.

    ...As you can tell there aren't many direct answers to Golurk, it's a very bulky mon who can pack a bunch, Banded Golurk 2hko's the whole tier with the exception of two mons: Weezing and the aforementioned Alomomola. There are other ways to get around Golurk, like play around it's EQ and Shadow Punch as they both have immunities. That being said, it's not that easy to break through Golurk! It's bulky and can hit back really damn hard too, so it's not hard to have trouble with this strong flying manly ghost robot.
  3. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,351
    Week #33 - Magmortar

    [​IMG]

    Type: Fire
    Base Stats: 75 HP / 95 Atk / 67 Def / 125 SpA / 95 SpD / 83 Spe
    Ability: Flame Body / Vital Spirit

    One of the most dangerous special wallbreakers in the tier. Discuss it's sets, roles in the metagame, counters / checks, best teammates, etc. Any and all aspects of the Pokemon are up for discussion here.
  4. EonX

    EonX Rise Above
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,907
    Magmortar is arguably the best special attacking Fire-type in RU. Although it receives stiff comeptition from Moltres with its STAB Hurricane and Typhlosion with its much higher Speed, Magmortar has its own set of advantages. Chief among these is Vital Spirit. This means Magmortar will be able to very easily switch into most sleep-inducers and proceed to pound away at the opposing defensive core. Below is the set I use the most with it:

    [​IMG]
    Magmortar (M) @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 24 HP / 252 SAtk / 232 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Substitute / Hidden Power [Grass] or [Ice]

    This is perhaps the most troubling variant of Magmortar for slower, more defensive teams to face. Magmortar is able to handle and lay waste the vast majority of RU walls with just three moves with the lone exceptions being Lanturn and Altaria, the former of which can easily be worn down, and the latter of which isn't all that common in the first place. Fire Blast just hammers stuff. Most Pokemon will be 2HKOed if they can't resist the move. Thunderbolt gives Magmortar a major niche among the special attacking Fire-types. It 2HKOes Slowking with no questions asked and reduces its dependency on an inaccurate move (Moltres) or a Hidden Power type (Typhlosion) to take out the king of RU. Focus Blast completes Magmortar's coverage and 2HKOes Clefable and Walrein (the latter of which you need to catch on the switch so it can't stall you out) It's also the strongest move Magmortar has on opposing Fire-types not named Moltres (who gets rocked by Thunderbolt) With coverage taken care of, I tend to use Substitute in the last slot to ease prediction, make it harder for defensive teams to wear down Magmortar, and help against faster teams although you are certainly more than capable of reinforcing your coverage on specific defensive threats. HP Grass instantly KOes Rhydon and Quagsire while 2HKOing Lanturn after a little prior damage. HP Ice on the other hand will lay a heavy hit on Druddigon and OHKO Altaria. Both HP types hit Golurk hard as well. (though Fire Blast actually hits it harder after STAB)

    Since I use this set with Substitute, I run an Expert Belt as the item so Magmortar doesn't have extra residual damage pile up on it. That said, a Life Orb is perfectly viable should you decide to run a Hidden Power type in the last moveslot for additional coverage. This ramps up the power of Fire Blast on targets such as Uxie and Golurk. The nature and EV spread ensures Magmortar outspeeds everything sitting around that base 80 Speed tier and below while still allowing it to hit as hard as possible. Also, please, please, please do not use the default EV spread PS gives you for Magmortar. Magmortar wants Speed, not bulk. I may edit this with teammates if nobody else covers those.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  5. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    644
    A solid counter to Magmortar is Druddigon.
    [​IMG]
    Druddigon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch

    This can take all Magmortar has to offer (except the rare HP Ice) and hit it back with EQ or Outrage.
  6. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    683
    Two other options for checks/counters:

    [​IMG]

    Primeape, especially the Scarfed ones, can destroy Magmortar with Earthquake or Stone Edge. Even Close Combat will do a lot of damage, often scoring a KO.

    [​IMG]

    Ludicolo takes neutral damage from every common move Magmortar runs, has good SpD, and can outspeed it in rain and easily OHKO with Surf/Hydro Pump. However the rain must be set beforehand if Ludicolo wants to switch into Magmortar.
  7. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,351
    Week #34 - Omastar


    [​IMG]
    Type: Water / Rock
    Base Stats: 70 HP / 60 Atk / 125 Def / 115 SpA / 70 SpD / 55 Spe
    Ability: Swift Swim / Shell Armor / Weak Armor


    Omastar is a mon with a lot of options, learn Stealth Rock, Spikes and Toxic Spikes so is a good hazard user also thanks to Shell Armor, not only Omastar is defensive with a base 115 SpA and Shell Smash makes a very dangerous special sweeper for a lot of teams. Discuss here best temmates / sets and espreads / how deal with him!

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
  8. Turtleye

    Turtleye

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    365
    Omastar is a pretty underrated 'mon in RU IMO, while being a good Pokemon. I used him one time with his ShellSmash set and it netted at least 2 kills a match after his counters and checks were gone. However, besides running offense, Omastar can fullfill other roles as well, namely as hazard setter, since it is the only Pokemon aside from Smeargle to learn all three hazards, making it a really good lead. Also his Defense is really high, being equal to Tangrowth's Defense and therefore making it a nice tank. However, the biggest downside is his typing, having a 4x weakness never helps, especially not if it it is in RU where grass-types are running rampant in the formes of Sceptile, Lilligant and the more uncommon Sawsbuck and Torterra. However, if you're running the ShellSmash set, you should be able to outspeed those 'mons and KO them with Ice Beam, since their Special Defense arent really like, high.

    As for a teammates, Rotom-C is a solid check to all the moves Omastar hates, bar the Fighting types, resisting Grass, Electric and being immune to Ground, while Omastar can tank those Flare Blitzes from Entei all day long, as well as random Ice Punches and maybe even an Ice Beam.

    IIRC this was teh set:

    Omastar @ Lum berry
    Ability: Shell Armor
    EV's: 252 SAtk/252 Spd/4 Def
    IV's: 0 Atk
    Moves:
    Shell Smash
    Ice Beam
    Surf
    HP Grass

    Obviously this set has some serious problems with ferroseed, as Gyro Ball still hurts, even thou Ferroseed has a low Base Attack, and it's easily crippled with T-waving Omastar
  9. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    4,025
    Omastar is definitely one of the best late game sweepers in the RU tier, and i can honestly say its one of the Pokemon i'm most afraid of whenever i see it in the team preview because of how quickly it gets dangerous after a boost, and how it can get a free smash on common Pokemon such as Choice Locked Entei, making it that much more intimidating because you have to play really carefully with these Pokemon if the opponent possesses a Shell Smash Omastar. Because of how threatening Omastar can be, and because some of Omastar's positive qualities and potential teammates have already been listed, i'll post a few potential checks and counters to Shell Smash Oma here instead.

    Ferroseed:

    [​IMG]

    Ferroseed is probably one of the best stops to Omastar in the entire tier. With its eviolite bolstered bulk, resistances to Omastar's Water-type STAB and Hidden Power Grass, as well as only being neutral to Ice Beam. Ferroseed can take multiple hits from even +2 Omastar, and can either wear it down with Leech Seed, Paralyze it with Thunder Wave to make it easier for teammates to revenge kill Omastar, or even just outright KO it with Seed Bomb because of its 4x weakness to Grass-type moves.

    Amoonguss and Roselia:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Despite their weaknesses to Ice Beam, Amoonguss and Roselia make pretty good stops to Omastar as well. Both Amoonguss and Roselia have enough raw bulk to take a +2 Ice Beam from White Herb/Lum Berry Omastar and can easily OHKO in return with Giga Drain, restoring a bit of HP in the process while doing so. Amoonguss even has Regenerator, meaning after a few switches it'll be back and ready to take on more threats after taking out Omastar, although Roselia will have trouble staying alive afterwards because of its lack of the ability.

    Choice Specs Slowking:

    [​IMG]

    Choice Specs Slowking makes a pretty good bulky offensive check to Omastar in my opinion. Even without all the extra bulk investment, Choice Specs Slowking can easily take a +2 Hidden Power Grass from Omastar and OHKO back in return with a powerful Specs surf, eliminating it from the match. Also, like Amoonguss, Slowking has regenerator, allowing it to heal off all the damage Omastar did with Hidden Power Grass with just a few switches, meaning its not totally crippled afterwards. Of course, defensive Slowking could also take Omastar on in theory, but it struggles a little bit with not being able to immediately KO Omastar with Scald even after a Shell Smash, meaning Omastar can get past defensive Slowking if its weakened a bit and/or lacks Thunder Wave.

    Choice Scarf Electrics:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Choice Scarf Electric-types are probably the most common and overall best checks to Omastar for a heavy offensive team. Although Omastar is pretty fast after a Shell Smash, some of the Choice Scarfed Electric-types such as Manectric and Rotom-N are still faster than it even at +2, allowing them to reliably revenge kill Omastar with either Volt Switch or Thunderbolt, either forcing it out or eliminating it from the match. Keep in mind that Choice Scarf Rotom-C isn't fast enough to revenge kill +2 Timid Omastar, so you'll have to go faster than that to find a reliable Omastar killer (think base 90 and up).

    So, those are a few ways to check Omastar and ensure that it can't immediately sweep you if it sets up. Of course i didn't cover everything, there are still some other ways to check Omastar that i haven't mentioned such as Mach Punch and Sucker Punch, and even simply just keeping up offensive pressure so it can never get the boost in the first place, but i'll leave those open for you guys to bring up.
    Soulgazer likes this.
  10. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    808
    Even though the Shell Smash set gets more popularity most of the time if I use Omastar I use the Offensive hazard setter. The fact that it actually deal significant damage to the enemy team is a huge advantage over Smeargle in my opinion. Like Smeargle, it can also set up both Spikes and Stealth Rock. With the addition of Weak Armour, Omastar can now actually outpace quite a few pokemon and set numerous layers of hazards. Most people dont expect a hazard laying Omastar, thus the switch into an appropriate /check/ while I just set up spikes with which my team can abuse. With powerful/useful moves like Hydro Pump, Icy Wind, Ice Beam, HP Grass, Earth Power, Toxic, etc. Omastar is certainly not dead weight. Omastars unique typing is another bonus as it x4 resists Fire type attacks, making it an ideal switch in into powerful Fire types like Entei and Moltres (watch out for HP Grass though).

    [​IMG] @ Focus Sash | Weak Armour
    Timid or Modest | 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    Stealth Rock | Hydro Pump or Scald | Spikes | Ice Beam or Icy Wind
  11. EonX

    EonX Rise Above
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,907
    Yeah, offensive hazards lead is a p. cool set on Omastar. Not many people see it coming and its a p. good set in its own right. That said, I'll present a few priority users that can generally handle Omastar and prevent it from doing too much damage to your team:

    Hitmonchan: Although it may not be a good spinner, LO Hitmonchan can be a surprisingly effective revenge killer of things like Omastar thanks to Iron Fist, LO-boosted Mach Punch. After the drop in defenses from Shell Smash, Omastar has little hope to survive the hit, and even if it somehow does, it has to rely on the inaccuracy of Hydro Pump to KO Hitmonchan due to its somewhat decent bulk.

    Absol: The single strongest priority move in the game can KO quite a few things, and SS Omastar is no different. After the defense drops and a little bit of prior damage, Omastar is easily in KO range of Absol's Sucker Punch.

    Hitmonlee: Hitmonlee is a very dangerous revenge killer of Omastar. The reason being that Hitmonlee can revenge kill Omastar with STAB, Fighting Gem-boosted Mach Punch and proceed to counter-sweep Omastar's team with Unburden-boosted Speed.
  12. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    683
    Along the lines of Scarfed Electrics to counter Omastar, here is one more not mentioned by Molk:

    [​IMG]

    Galvantula has near the same speed as Manectric and with a Timid nature and Scarf it can outspeed +2 Omastar and OHKO it. My preferred set:

    Galvantula (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Compoundeyes
    EVs: 252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 0 Atk
    -Thunder
    -Bug Buzz
    -Giga Drain/Volt Switch
    -Volt Switch/Hidden Power Fire

    This is usually what I run for Scarf Galvantula. Thunder, Giga Drain, and Volt Switch can all easily KO Omastar even after the +2 Speed boost. Giga Drain also has the benefit of recovery to compensate for Galvantula's SR weakness that the other two main Scarfed Electric-types lack. Volt Switch can also give the Galvantula user momentum as you switch to a Pokemon that will be hard for the opponent to handle. I slash HP Fire because it does a lot of damage to Ferroseed, Amoonguss, and Escavalier. Otherwise all of these Pokemon can either cripple it or outright KO it.

    NOTE: There are other Galvantula sets I like using, mostly with Life Orb and 4 attacks, but those don't check offensive Omastar well.
  13. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,351
    Week #35 - Cinccino


    [​IMG]
    Type: Normal
    Base Stats: 75 HP / 95 Atk / 60 Def / 65 SpA / 60 SpD / 115 Spe
    Ability: Cute Charm / Technician / Skill Link

    Cinccino is one of the cutest king's in Rarely Used tier; strong Atk with a good ability and superb speed makes Cinccino one of the best cleaner on the tier capable to break Substitutes with a solid coverage. Discuss here best temmates / sets and spreads / how deal with him after the ban hail!

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
  14. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,169
    [​IMG]
    Cinccino (M) @ King's Rock
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - U-turn
    - Tail Slap
    - Rock Blast
    - Bullet Seed

    Cinccino (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - U-turn
    - Tail Slap
    - Rock Blast
    - Bullet Seed

    Cinccino (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - U-turn
    - Tail Slap
    - Rock Blast
    - Bullet Seed

    When talking about Cinccino, a few sets come to mind. These three are the main Cinccino sets seen around in RU. All of them share a similar trait of being walled by Steel types, but each one plays a different role. The Choice Band set deals massive damage with its relatively good coverage, able to outspeed a wide range of threats and break through Subs, and generally pose an offensive threat to the majority of offensively oriented teams. U-turn is also quite vital for the momentum.

    The King's Rock is the most interesting imo among these three sets. Due to Skill Link, Cinccino gets roughly around a 40% chance to flinch the opponent, which can be huge in clutch situations. Thanks to Cinccino's excellent speed, chances are the flinch will happen and thus save the Cinccino from getting hit if it can't KO the opposition. King's Rock also has another side to this. Due to no item showing, it can actually bluff the Choice Scarf because the damage output is the same, and if the Pokemon getting hit gets KOed and said opponent calculates, the damage per hit is the same, making King's Rock an effective bluff.

    Choice Scarf finishes up the trio of items. In my opinion, this is the worst item choice among the big three on Cinccino, because it already lacks attacking prowess. Its speed is also already top notch, and it really doesnt need the Scarf. However, it works against Sub boosting Pokemon, to break their Subs and then smash them down. However, power is lacking on this set, and thus you can fail to get KOs. U-turn is also quite important on this set, although it is generally a give away that you aren't banded to any good player.

    Now, like every mon, Cinccino has some major answers to it. When looking at its movepool on common sets, it can be noticed that its missing major coverage on Steel types. This is an immense inherent flaw in Cinccino, making it weak against one of the best Pokemon currently in RU: Escavalier. It is reduced to just U-turning out, or if it runs King's Rock, hoping that the move chosen flinches all the way. A few of these Steels that really rain on Cinccino's parade are Klinklang, Steelix, Aggron, Escavalier, and Durant. These are the best answers to this Pokemon, and its quite common when playing RU, which decreases Cinccino's effectiveness. However, this is why we have teammates!

    As made clear, Cinccino has issues with Steel types especially, so Magneton is excellent as a partner. A few traits allow it to be so useful. It gets the awesome Magnet Pull to trap and eliminate all Steel types. Also, it uses Volt Switch to form a Volturning core with Cinccino, always excellent for momentum. It also hits hard on the Special side of the spectrum, making Tangrowth, for example, a less secure switchin. Paired with a Spiker, this can form a strong offensive core with hazards. Synergetically, however, Cinccino also likes being paired with Gallade. Both of them overwhelm each other's issues, and are more secure synergetically. Overall, the best partners for Cinccino are Pokemon that easily break through Steels. Here are my personal preferred Magneton and Gallade sets:

    [​IMG]
    Magneton @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 220 Spd / 252 SAtk / 36 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flash Cannon
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    [​IMG]
    Gallade (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Taunt
    Cherub Agent and Hot N Cold like this.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)