Metagame RU Stage 11 - Thunderstruck (Thundurus-Therian Suspect Test)

[EviGaro]

​

Hlelo, with the Winter Seasonals concluded and RUPL in full swing, the RU Council has decided to move forward with a Thundurus-Therian suspect.

Thundurus-Therian is an excellent pivot that reaches an impressive speed tier, being able to outspeed key Pokemon such as Jirachi, Salamence, and Fezandipiti. Moreover, unlike a usual pivot it can hit hard with a base 145 SpA and having access to coverage moves such as Grass Knot for Hippowdon, Rhyperior, Palossand, and Gastrodon, Focus Blast to 2HKO Assault Vest Cyclizar, and utility moves such as Knock Off and Thunder Wave. Adding to this, it can also set up with Nasty Plot in itself or run Agility in combination with Tera Blast Flying, which is very difficult to revenge kill and defensively check without committing to a Terastallization. The main issue is that more often than not its set is fully revealed at the point of the game where little can be done to beat it. Due to all these reasons we believe that Thundurus-Therian is worthy of a suspect test. (credits feen)

Thundurus isn't necessarily without flaws. As RU's power increased dramatically, it also makes Thundurus quite frail, making it possible to hit hard pretty easily. This makes setup sets, while immensely threatening, potentially less reliable than the more hit and run pivot set, which is generally a far better support mon that can still hit hard enough. Its speed, while good for the reasons above, comes with some issues at times, with players starting to opt for the Incarnate version due to its speed tier notably beating the everpresent and dangerous Cobalion, while also having access to priority twave. So Thundurus-Therian, while universally seen as one of the premier pivots since it came to the tier, has lost some ground to its other form its this main role. That being said, the sheer potential of Therian with setup and move variety still make it the more generally threatening choice, forcing guessing games that, like said above, can very easily disadvantage the defending player.

Now it's up to the playerbase! Tagging dhelmise and Marty to announce it on the RU Ladder, thank you both.

minimum games needed

GXE	minimum games
78	50
78.2	49
78.4	48
78.6	47
78.8	46
79	45
79.2	44
79.4	43
79.6	42
79.8	41
80	40
80.2	39
80.4	38
80.6	37
80.8	36
81	35
81.2	34
81.4	33
81.6	32
81.8	31
82	30

Suspect information:

• There will be no draws allowed for any potential qualifiers. If you qualify with draws, your suspect requirements will not count, and you will not be allowed to vote. There is no way to actively enforce ties to prevent abuse, so they will be disallowed. Use stall at your own risk.
• All games must be played on the Pokémon Showdown! RU ladder on a new alt with the following format: "RUT1 (nickname)”. For example, RUT1 Pivot or RUT1 SUSPECTTERAOMG.
• Do NOT impersonate other people in your ladder alt, do NOT use any usernames which are offensive, flame-baiting, or targeting specific users, and do NOT use usernames which could be interpreted as breaking any of the username rules on Pokémon Showdown! Failure to abide to this will result in you being barred from voting in this suspect, and potential infractions.
• The suspect test will last for two weeks, ending on Friday, May 10th. 9:59pm - 4

/!\ NOTICE /!\ RU will not be tolerating any form of voting manipulation. Any attempt to manipulate votes can result in an infraction, loss of eligibility to vote in the current test, and loss of the Tiering Contributor badge. While we won't necessarily enforce super strict punishment, this won't be tolerated and will be handled accordingly. Voting manipulation can simply be described as attempting to get people to vote a way on the test in inappropriate manners. Bribing with teams to vote a certain way, directly messaging people to vote a certain way, publicly announcing "vote this way" all fall under voting manipulation. For more query, feel free to PM me or Feliburn .

 

[MachJacob]

Is it real this time

 

[lars]

Maypril Fool's day reveal in 3... 2...

 

[itzLapis]

bruh

 

[Feliburn]

Maypril Fool’s Everybody!

 

[Elec-ant1234]

ah phoey. I knew it was too good to be true, stop getting reqs everybody, funs over
go back to playing guessing games with thundy-t's 7 different sets and 5 different coverage moves

 

[DaRotomMachine]

Is this an actual test cause Maypril Fool's does't exist

 

[Arakd’eau ㋛]

Is this an actual test cause Maypril Fool's does't exist

 

[DaRotomMachine]

Also May 10 is not

two weeks

from Monday

 

[Elec-ant1234]

Also May 10 is not

from now

bro's posting from the future, it's in 2 weeks wdym

 

[THE_CHUNGLER]

I just finished my suspect laddering so I think I’m ready to gab about this.

Thundurus is a mon that I’ve certainly complained about before, but after seeing what it’s doing in RUPL, I’m not sure I want to ban it. Let’s talk about both of the most common sets, pivot and nasty plot, since they serve different functions.

Pivot thundurus has many great move options, but is severely limited in other respects. First, it must run boots to avoid rocks damage, I don’t think other options are nearly as consistent. Next, Thundurus will run electric stab, but will typically have to choose between volt switch and tbolt. Volt switch as your best stab is supremely weak on a pokemon that must run boots and can’t afford a boosting item, even with its special attack.

If Thundurus chooses tbolt, then it must use another move slot on volt switch or u-turn. This requires you to sacrifice coverage vs. important Pokémon. Tbolt/VS/focus blast/grass knot hits many Pokémon hard, but loses the utility of knock off which helps other sets break cyclizar. Dropping focus blast or grass knot is also not ideal as you lose out in certain matchups. Tera blast fly is another great option over focus blast, allowing you to run VS/knock/tbfly/gk, to hit grass type checks, but requires Tera on a mon that is easily revenged by any competent team. Yeah, it will break teams, but at the cost of Tera without winning you the game outright, that’s a dangerous spot to be in if your opponent hasn’t used their Tera.

I think pivot thundurus is a good pokemon to have that can punish slower fat teams, while not being so strong that it’s immediately threatening OHKOs on the tier’s special walls. It also provides useful immunities, resistances, and fast but not TOO fast speed for an offensive pokemon in the team builder.

Nasty Plot on the other hand will never struggle for power, but is harder to fit on balance teams and is extremely easy to spot on HO. It will typically run NP/TBFly/Tbolt/GK or Agility. Focus blast is an option but you have to sacrifice tera blast or grass knot.

NP thundurus sets up on cyclizar and can kill it with Focus Blast or TBfly, this is an interaction we’ve seen very often. I don’t think that makes thundurus broken though. Even if thundurus nasty plots on the switch and kills bike, bike still gets a Draco meteor or knock off on it, while bike has forced tera on tbfly sets or thundurus reveals focus blast. Not a great situation to be in, but thundurus is now not at full health and will have a much harder time coming back in to do damage now that it’s weakened.

Double Dance, or nasty plot+agility with TBFly as coverage, has popped up a few times and is incredibly threatening. Teams with only cyclizar to handle thundurus get set up on and oftentimes swept on the spot once it gets +2 +2. I did at onepoint think this was the most broken thundurus set, but it’s still very hard to set up if you aren’t at absolute full hp when cyclizar comes in, and again forces Tera on thundurus to try and win the game. There is counterplay however, by using Tera electric with a bulky pokemon that can kill thundurus back. I don’t think this is too restrictive, as Tera electric is just good in general for both thundurus and jirachi, and prevents twave paralysis. You’ve traded their Tera for yours with your Tera’d mon is still alive.

NP thundurus in general is also very susceptible to priority, because it’s not going to get a nasty plot off without taking some damage. Our priority options aren’t amazing, but bisharp sucker punch is really impossible for thundurus to get around if it uses TBFly. Lycanroc is another great option that kills thundurus no matter what happens, and can fit on teams with strong defensive backbone. Stall teams will always have chansey as an option to force damage on thubdurus revenge kill it in the absolute worst case scenario.

All this being said, I definitely could be convinced to vote ban, but I’ve yet to see a truly egregious example of thundurus destroying a well built team without good piloting from the thundurus user.