Resource RU Viability Ranking

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Why was Kanga removed? She has a strong Fake Out and with Scrappy she can even hit ghosts with her Normal STAB and has a neat movepool. I am not trying to defend her I am just curious.

Kangaskhan doesn't really have much that makes it worth using atm. It's pretty weak, and it's walled rather easily by things like Escavalier and Rhyperior since it's not all that strong. It had a cool niche last gen but it doesn't do much since RU is stronger right now. In addition, Ambipom is better at Fake Out spamming to pester offense, since it has Technician Fake Out and has Knock Off and Low Kick to be somewhat annoying (or U-turn but lol). In addition, Ambipom on its own doesn't do very well in RU as it is anyways, and seeing as how Kangaskhan is worse, that says a lot. Anyways, Kangaskhan is just eh because it's not that strong and doesn't have much of a niche over other Normal-types like Zangoose, Cinccino, Bouffalant, and Tauros. There's also an IRC log on the previous page (I think), so you could look there as well since I think Kanga was discussed in that log too. I obviously didn't nominate it, but that's what I think about it.

 

[Molk]

Oh i almost forgot, Sceptile has been moved down to B rank :x

 

[Mew2]

Kangaskhan doesn't really have much that makes it worth using atm. It's pretty weak, and it's walled rather easily by things like Escavalier and Rhyperior since it's not all that strong. It had a cool niche last gen but it doesn't do much since RU is stronger right now. In addition, Ambipom is better at Fake Out spamming to pester offense, since it has Technician Fake Out and has Knock Off and Low Kick to be somewhat annoying (or U-turn but lol). In addition, Ambipom on its own doesn't do very well in RU as it is anyways, and seeing as how Kangaskhan is worse, that says a lot. Anyways, Kangaskhan is just eh because it's not that strong and doesn't have much of a niche over other Normal-types like Zangoose, Cinccino, Bouffalant, and Tauros. There's also an IRC log on the previous page (I think), so you could look there as well since I think Kanga was discussed in that log too. I obviously didn't nominate it, but that's what I think about it.

Thanks for the info! The thing is Kanga was discussed by less than 5 lines and I still had my doubts thanks for answering them!

In addition, Ambipom is better

I never thought I would hear those words.

 

[The Leprechaun]

Although it just moved up a couple of ranks, I'd like to see Sandslash in b-/b. Sandslash has risen in popularity significantly as the need for a spinner that beats doublade has become more important, following the prevalence of yanmega. Slash is really suited to offensive spike stacking teams right now as it manages to fill a number of roles which no other poke in the tier can do at once. Spike stacking teams really don't want to rely on defog for hazard removal but with stealth rock on the field, some of the best offensive mons in the tier are cockblocked by rocks (yanmega, moltres, delphox, etc). With the premier spin blocker being doublade, none of the current spinners can reliably remove hazards, with hitmonlee taking huge damage from shadow sneak and kabutops being unable to do much damage without dying. Hitmontop may be able to spin but is utter set-up fodder and is often dead weight outside of spinning. Slash, with its good physical bulk, knock off and stab eq can consistently beat doublade and have hp to spare afterwards. Another thing it gets which can be hard to fit on offensive teams is stealth rock. Rocks are obviously necessary for any team but because its poor distribution limits it to very few mons, offence is forced to use another poke, limiting your options for offensive cores. Finally, it acts a decent glue mon which can sponge a few hits from many pokes thanks to its plain ground typing and usable bulk, as opposed to rhyperior's rock/ground which obviously has a few more exploitable weaknesses.

tldr slash is the only mon which has the niche of tanky spinner with rocks that can beat doublade, perfect for spike stacking ho.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-147297962
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-147437733
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-147474247

 

[MrCookiepants]

Can we talk about Swords Dance Mega Abomasnow for a second?

+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 385-454 (94.8 - 111.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 340-402 (93.4 - 110.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

After you've finished decimating their walls, clean up with Ice Shard!

+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zoroark: 220-259 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 159-187 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 241-285 (99.5 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 380-450 (117.2 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mismagius: 220-259 (83.9 - 98.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

No joke. It can be a terrifying late-game sweeper. Honestly, this is probably the best use I've found for this thing yet.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Can we talk about Swords Dance Mega Abomasnow for a second?

+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 385-454 (94.8 - 111.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 340-402 (93.4 - 110.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

After you've finished decimating their walls, clean up with Ice Shard!

+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zoroark: 220-259 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 159-187 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 241-285 (99.5 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 380-450 (117.2 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mismagius: 220-259 (83.9 - 98.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

No joke. It can be a terrifying late-game sweeper. Honestly, this is probably the best use I've found for this thing yet.

IMO megasnow is to slow for SD, to be honest Normal snow seems like a better SD option because of its higher speed and the fact that it hits harder with LO. It looks like a good wallbreaker and late game cleaner on papar, but it fails against to many offensive mons like fox, pig and ant, which are all pretty good in the meta. Megasnow is better at TR sweeping and Fucking up defensive cores

 

[MrCookiepants]

IMO megasnow is to slow for SD, to be honest Normal snow seems like a better SD option because of its higher speed and the fact that it hits harder with LO. It looks like a good wallbreaker and late game cleaner on papar, but it fails against to many offensive mons like fox, pig and ant, which are all pretty good in the meta. Megasnow is better at TR sweeping and Fucking up defensive cores

You're right, but the common walls in RU such as Aromatisse and Slowking are outsped with little or no investment anyway. And the extra bulk is nice for taking opposing priority. I guess it's a toss up. Either way, an underrated threat in my opinion.

 

[Molk]

Can we talk about Swords Dance Mega Abomasnow for a second?

+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 385-454 (94.8 - 111.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 340-402 (93.4 - 110.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

After you've finished decimating their walls, clean up with Ice Shard!

+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zoroark: 220-259 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 159-187 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 241-285 (99.5 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 380-450 (117.2 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mismagius: 220-259 (83.9 - 98.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

No joke. It can be a terrifying late-game sweeper. Honestly, this is probably the best use I've found for this thing yet.

For reference these kinds of discussions would probably be placed better in either the NP thread (although it might be choked out by suspect discussion, and the new metagame trends thread here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metagame-trends.3513333/ :x.


Outside of that, something was brought up on irc a day or two ago about Gorebyss, and how it might not deserve A- rank. We all know why Gorebyss is ranked on the list at all: Smashpass, but let's be honest here, when's the last time you've actually seen a Smashpass team in action o_O? I seriously haven't seen a single one at all since r0, and i've played a very, very large amount of games. Outside of simple usage arguments (this usually shouldn't matter but because this is something that's currently A rank it's worth bringing up i guess), Smashpass as a whole was kinda nerfed by the actions of the tiers above, since Baton Pass is only limited to one Pokemon per team now (not to mention smeargle's OU), the option of a full Smashpass team (screens, two smashpassers, xatu to stop phazing, two recipients) is out of the question, and because of the unique nature of Shell Smash+White Herb you only really get to *safely* pull off a pass one time from my experience (even behind possible screens its at least a little bit more annoying to smashpass to something when they're guarenteed -1 defenses on switch in). Unlike say Combusken who can repeatedly pass Speed, Attack, and Defense throughout the game with little drawback. So what do you guys think? Gorebyss down to the B ranks?

 

[Ares]

Outside of that, something was brought up on irc a day or two ago about Gorebyss, and how it might not deserve A- rank. We all know why Gorebyss is ranked on the list at all: Smashpass, but let's be honest here, when's the last time you've actually seen a Smashpass team in action o_O? I seriously haven't seen a single one at all since r0, and i've played a very, very large amount of games. Outside of simple usage arguments (this usually shouldn't matter but because this is something that's currently A rank it's worth bringing up i guess), Smashpass as a whole was kinda nerfed by the actions of the tiers above, since Baton Pass is only limited to one Pokemon per team now (not to mention smeargle's OU), the option of a full Smashpass team (screens, two smashpassers, xatu to stop phazing, two recipients) is out of the question, and because of the unique nature of Shell Smash+White Herb you only really get to *safely* pull off a pass one time from my experience (even behind possible screens its at least a little bit more annoying to smashpass to something when they're guarenteed -1 defenses on switch in). Unlike say Combusken who can repeatedly pass Speed, Attack, and Defense throughout the game with little drawback. So what do you guys think? Gorebyss down to the B ranks?

I think Gorebyss should move down probably to B maybe even B-. It relies way to much on its white herb to get up a smash pass and with phasing and other moves existing on multiple pokemon it is quite easy to take care of this. And once Gorebyss is phased out at least once it can't really take a hit to get up a shell smash with the minus drops. It is no where near as good as it was last gen. I agree with all the above mentioned points and support a drop.

 

[Mew2]

Outside of that, something was brought up on irc a day or two ago about Gorebyss, and how it might not deserve A- rank. We all know why Gorebyss is ranked on the list at all: Smashpass, but let's be honest here, when's the last time you've actually seen a Smashpass team in action o_O? I seriously haven't seen a single one at all since r0, and i've played a very, very large amount of games. Outside of simple usage arguments (this usually shouldn't matter but because this is something that's currently A rank it's worth bringing up i guess), Smashpass as a whole was kinda nerfed by the actions of the tiers above, since Baton Pass is only limited to one Pokemon per team now (not to mention smeargle's OU), the option of a full Smashpass team (screens, two smashpassers, xatu to stop phazing, two recipients) is out of the question, and because of the unique nature of Shell Smash+White Herb you only really get to *safely* pull off a pass one time from my experience (even behind possible screens its at least a little bit more annoying to smashpass to something when they're guarenteed -1 defenses on switch in). Unlike say Combusken who can repeatedly pass Speed, Attack, and Defense throughout the game with little drawback. So what do you guys think? Gorebyss down to the B ranks?

For me, Gorebyss is a high risk high reward pokemon; you have one shot to smashpass and once you do it the game may be pretty much over but if you fail Gorebyss becomes a death weight to your team on the other hand Combusken has a lower risk and a lower reward because he can BP serveral times in a match so what do you think if Gorebyss goes down to B rank and Combusken goes up to B rank? Since both of them share the same role in the meta except one is riskier and the other safer. Also Combusken can set up on CS Yanmega locked into Buz Buzz so that's something.

 

[ForgottenOnes]

Imo there isn't much discussion on Rhyperior. I don't know if I missed the part where people discussed it but w/e.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

I've been using gore as a smashpass user and I have to say it's dead weight after it has smash passed which it can only do once as all pokes hate that -1 in def and sp def, if I get 2 shell smashes and then pass if the recipient survives its only going to get revenged kill by priority anyway then you have a dead poke and a useless poke in one slot, Imo I feel it should drop to B or maybe B- as its support it gives is a 1 time use anyway.

 

[EonX]

Gorebyss: I feel like the last person I saw using a SmashPass team was me with my old Meowstic-M team back in late Stage 0 / early Stage 1. Tbh, I haven't used it since then, but I don't really feel Gorebyss is very good right now. Maybe it'll get better if Zoroark gets the boot, but there's a ton of priority around the tier right now and plenty of Pokemon are capable of putting enough pressure on Gorebyss to discourage the Shell Smash, or at least limit it to a single use. Granted, if there are multiple possible recipients and you guess wrong, you will lose something easily, but I feel that SmashPass is the ultimate high risk; high reward strategy right now. It can work really, really well. But it could also end up being complete deadweight. This isn't befitting of a Pokemon in any A rank, or even B+. I feel that B rank suits Gorebyss best. It's capable of ending games, but also capable of doing absolutely nothing depdning on team matchups.

 

[g]

Considering that popular defensive Pokémon like Gligar and Alomomola (and other ones like Registeel, Bronzong, and some Slowking) are complete utter setup fodder and thus it doesn't require that much support (namely dual screens) I feel like Gorebyss still has a decent niche in the tier and is still fairly effective (the last time I've used it was right after Shuckle's ban) but ultimately agree it doesn't belong to the A ranks because of how difficult it is to have a "clean" pass and because the tier is filled with strong priority users that can eventually take down the receiver and are difficult to remove even with team support sometimes. B+/B is the right spot.

This second nomination is a bit controversial but I'd also like to see Dugtrio in A just because it supports very well one of the best Pokémon in the tier in Yanmega and is quite effective at removing annoying offensive Pokemon too and even setting up Stealth Rock or Memento for a frail sweeper in a pinch.

Finally I think Reuniclus should drop to A- because, apart from the Trick Room who tears offense a new asshole, it is mostly outclassed by Meloetta on offensive teams because it is still able to break stall with Calm Mind and because of its ability to check Doublade and Hitmonlee. Still a very effective Pokemon obviously but I feel like A- is its place.

 

[ForgottenOnes]

This second nomination is a bit controversial but I'd also like to see Dugtrio in A just because it supports very well one of the best Pokémon in the tier in Yanmega and is quite effective at removing annoying offensive Pokemon too and even setting up Stealth Rock or Memento for a frail sweeper in a pinch.

I support Dugtrio moving to A. Not only does Dugtrio does that. As a lead mon, Dugtrio can trap other lead mons (such as Omastar) and knock it out. Also, it can learn Rapid Spin, which of course would not only help Yanmega out, but other members of the team as well. Memento is a fun move imo. It is great to catch your opponent off guard

Finally I think Reuniclus should drop to A- because, apart from the Trick Room who tears offense a new asshole, it is mostly outclassed by Meloetta on offensive teams because it is stull able to break stall with Calm Mind and because of its ability to check Doublade and Hitmonlee. Still a very effective Pokemon obviously but I feel like A- is its place.

Reuniclus, however I think should stay in A. The fact that it can Trick Room is a big deal. There aren't many Trick Roomers in RU, and they aren't common. However, there are MANY slow Pokemon that are good but not viable because of their slowness such as Gurdurr. Reuniclus can also take a Knock Off from a Hitmonlee (Knock off 2hkos). Reuniclus makes Hitmonlee less of a threat. Trick Room makes a lot of stuff less of a threat, fast mons such as yanmega (speed boost), Jolteon, are all affected by Trick Room.

 

[MikeDawg]

I don't think dug should be anywhere near A. It can trap p much nothing except for registeel and a few weakened mons (i dont remember the last time that i saw a delphox...). Even with band it is just so damn weak, and it is completely deadweight against team that doesn't feature registeel. After the trap, it is a complete liability for a gligar to setup rocks or a virizion to set up in general, and plenty of other mons to boot.

As strong as it is, having the niche of supporting yanmega is certainly not grounds for an a rank, which has "most of the tier" as a qualification for pretty much every role.

It is a completely niche mon, and it should stay where it is now

in fact, it technically fits even better in B+'s "but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche." Though its niche is exclusive enough to give it a bit more leeway.

Honestly, it's not as if dealing with yanmega is registeel or die. It is rocks weak, slow in the case of specs, relatively weak in the case of lo, and it has plenty of mons that can at the very least tank a hit. While I do think that it should be banned, I have been using it more since the test has started, and I have been completely underwhelmed with the specs set's power.

as strong as it is, yanmega's offensive prowess is certainly being hyperbolized as a result of its suspect (and before that, possible suspect) status. In reality, it is not nearly as much of an instant win button as everyone makes it out to be. A single togetic or golbat or audino or even registeel can put it out of commision for the larger part of the game, and that is assuming a specs set.

You can say that rock weak doesnt matter because hazards can be easily removed, but they can also be more easily set up so idgi

even offensive teams have answers to both sets in the forms of zoroark, moltres, emboar to check, etc. While they may not be able to switch into the specs set (if the yanmega user has perf prediction...), so what? You are telling me that an offensive team has trouble switching into one of the hardest hitting mons in the tier? wow. who would have thought?

Offensive teams have a very easy time both keeping rocks up and forcing yanmega out, and it really only shines in late-game cleaning against them via the speed boost set. Even then, priority shits it down (via the very prevelant zoroark).

tl;dr: broken. not god


Reun can drop

 

[g]

I wanted it to be S but let's wait 'til ZoroMega get b& so that people realize

Nominating Meloetta for A+ rank.
With its ridiculous stat spread and movepool Meloetta is a good asset to almost any kind of team with Offensive CM/Specs/Scarf (and even AV isn't that bad apparently) tanking hits from any kind of Special Attacker and hitting back ridiculously hard, Relic Song trashing its conventional checks, SubCm giving nightmares to Stall, and even a defensive set that acts as a nice glue for Stall teams. Meloetta's main asset is certainly its sea wide movepool containing all kinds of moves including Hyper Voice, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Trick, U-turn, Perish Song, Relic Song, Knock Off, Calm Mind and others i've probably missed and not knowing what moves/set Meloetta is running (because only Psychic STAB and maybe Hyper Voice are mandatory not counting Relic Song sets) makes it even more effective.
Apart from Zoroark and Yanmega the metagame is also surprisingly kind to Meloetta since Escavalier's drop in popularity and the fact that it checks one of the best Pokemon in the tier in Doublade makes it even more useful.

A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

Meloetta can sweep a significant portion of the metagame with its 2 Calm Mind sets that set up on a significant portion of the metagame(and I could argue it can even wall a significant portion too with its defensive set)
with little support required and the only flaw being its Sucker Punch weakness and not great speed tier and looking at the definition of S rank, especially the bolded part

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

I can say that Meloetta is really close to that and, while not being quite there, deserves A+.

I also think that Spiritomb deserves a little boost to B because of its great matchup with top Tier threats like Hitmonlee, Delphox, Doublade, and Meloetta itself and the utlity it provides to offensive teams with Pursuit, priority, and spinblocking support.

 

[EonX]

Meloetta: I've seen most of its sets in action and personally have had pretty good success with its Choice Scarf set, which many would argue to be Meloetta's least effective set. Right now, I kind of view Meloetta like Mesprit of early-BW2. It has extreme versatility and is able to fit onto virtually any team type thanks to its godly movepool and great stat distribution. Offensively, Meloetta has a crazy good movepool. Calm Mind, Psyshock, Hyper Voice, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, U-turn, Knock Off, Relic Song. All are great moves depending on the set you plan on using. Add to that the fact that Meloetta gets Heal Bell and the super-exclusive Perish Song, and it makes for a solid special wall as well. Perhaps the biggest thing holding Meloetta back is that base 90 Speed. It's not terrible by any means, but getting outsped by stuff like Zoroark, Cobalion, and Sharpedo can be kind of annoying though you can use Choice Scarf to alleviate this somewhat. Between its great versatility, wide movepool, and ability to fit onto almost any type of team make it worthy of A+ in my eyes. Oh, and SubCM can work around Sucker Punch galbia ;)

 

[Molk]

Time for a few updates!

Updates

Gorebyss down to B rank
Meloetta up to A+ rank
Spiritomb up to B rank

As someone whos used Dugtrio quite a bit, i'm kinda shaky on moving it any higher than A- rank, mainly because of the fact that its lowish damage output (limits how many trapped things it can actually KO without them being weakened) and general frailty (makes it really annoying to switch in on things you want to trap without double switching/u-turn support, Focus Sash is ok i guess but it gets really really weak without a boosting item such as Life Orb or Choice Band, iirc it has trouble 2HKOing Registeel with sash.) limit just how much it can trap, the things that it *CAN* trap are really really important, but i feel that its a little too limited in its role for A rank atm.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

Dugtrio is a good pokemon with high speed but you have to run choice band most of the time for it to actually do damage but then some poekmon its suppose to trap OHKO it because of how frail it is, it's main job is weakening registeel on my team so yanmega have no easy switch ins so I run sash as it is also able to OHKO jolteon (though hp ice/water breaks its sash) and I can stone edge a choice scarfed moltres expecting my trio to be choiced, trapping is great but because of how frail it is, registeel is the only real one it can trap an kill unless sashed which then you lose out of power and if there are rocks etc up your items is gone, on the good side thoughit supports yanmega by taking the only real good switch in to yanmega out and memento weakens the pokemon atk and sp.a making revenge kills/set up much easier as they have to switch if they want to do actual damage, with that said though I feel it should stay in A- a pokemon that will be banned after this suspect test (surpised if yanmega doesnt get banned) isnt enough to rise, even though Yanmega and dugtrio are scary as hell, trio is only there for 1 reason.

 

[phantom]

Heliolisk should move down to C+. I don't know what that thing is still doing in B and why it wasn't dropped lower the last time. The only thing it has over Jolteon is the ability to check Doublade, which is nice, but otherwise, it's pretty much outclassed. The coverage doesn't matter much considering the only two Ground-types you see are Rhyperior and Gligar, which Jolteon can hit with HP water anyway. It's in no way on the same level as the Pokemon in B.

Gallade should move down to B rank or even B-. It just really isn't all that effective and doesn't provide much of a niche that other Pokemon can't do. Swords Dance is fairly good vs balanced, but it's rather slow and struggles with offense, which kinda sucks. Furthermore, between Aromatisse and Gligar, it isn't breaking stall all too easily w/o a lot support or proper guesswork. It just doesn't really do anything unique and doesn't have much to separate itself from other Fighting-types, so I don't see why it's in the high Bs.

Golbat should move up to B. Specially Defensive is actually a lot better than its physically defensive counterpart imo. On top of being a very good counter to Yanmega that isn't boned by Dugtrio, it has a handy Immunity to Toxic and is one of the few stall mons that can screw with SubBulkUP Braviary, which is a fairly good niche. Specially Defensive can also beat Moltres and Modest Clawitzer one-versus-one due to the fact that neither can 2HKO (well, Golbat can use Roost to dodge the damage from Ice Beam) while it can proceed to Roost + Toxic stall, which is great. Unlike other Defog users like Togetic and Gligar, Golbat actually has offensive presence due its neat 120 STAB move and the fact that you can't just get behind a Sub to mess with it unlike those two is also a nice bonus. Overall, a very underrated Pokemon.

Weezing needs to move up to B+. This thing is the epitome of anti-meta and is hands down the best Toxic Spikes user in RU. It counters Doublade, Rhyperior, Hitmonlee, checks Cobalion, Virizion, Druddigon, physical Zoroark, etc. Access to Wisp and that great physical bulk really augment its defensive fortes, and of course Toxic Spikes utility is awesome. Speaking of which, unlike Drapion, Weezing can actually beat Hitmonlee and can pressure just about every other Rapid Spin / Defog user with Will-O-Wisp and/or its STABs and coverage, as well as help wear down grounded Poison-types like Amoonguss with a burn. While it doesn't have reliable recovery, Pain Split can get you by more often than not and puts less pressure on its Wish passing partner. The one thing keeping Weezing from A is the lack of reliable recovery, but again, it isn't totally helpless in that regard due to Pain Split and the fact that it works really well with Aromatisse is just an added bonus.

I support the previous nomination of Doublade going to S rank. I don't want to rehash the already drawn-out arguments, but I will say a few things. This thing is amazing and can fit on just about every single team there is, even hardstall, which is a testament to how good it is. On top of which, it's THE offensive check to both Virizion and Cobalion, both of which are rather difficult to beat w/o knowing their movesets and Doublade can counter rather easily. Very good spinblocker, offensive powerhouse, and offensive check to a variety of top-tier threats as well as a very defining Pokemon in general. S rank is the way to go.

 

[EonX]

Alright, I guess it's time to cover stuff:

Heliolisk: Yeah, tbh, I haven't seen this thing in a while. And tbh, I don't see a reason to run Heliolisk outside of Rain or if you absolutely need a Water immunity. Heck, even Rotom-C resists Water, so the immunity is only useful if you just have a hatred for Scald burns tbh. It's got great Speed and Special Attack, but Jolteon is faster, marginally stronger, and has slightly better bulk (somehow) Heliolisk was great when Jolteon wasn't around, but now that it is, Helio really doesn't have much use. Definitely needs to be moved down to C+.

Gallade: Gallade is basically a bulkier Hitmonlee with Psychic STAB to screw over Poison-types. Outside of beating Poison-types that Hitmonlee generally struggles with, there isn't a big reason to run Gallade right now. I mean, bulky SD is nice, but Virizion and Cobalion can generally take a hit easily enough. Bulk Up sets can be really annoying, but most teams have a way around it. It can run Assault Vest, but Druddigon, Slowking, and Escavalier are generally better. Gallade is useful, but just outclassed rn for the most part. I feel B- is too low for it, but a move down to B probably wouldn't hurt anything.

Golbat: Not too sure on the SpDef vs. PhysDef argument, but Golbat is definitely cool right now. Anything that can stop Yanmega without getting screwed by Dugtrio is rly good atm. Defog is a definite pro as is Infiltrator Toxic. It has recovery in Roost as well! And if you're willing to give up offensive presence, you can slap on U-turn to build momentum. Definitely deserving of B rank.

Weezing: I haven't seen it much, but when I have seen it, it's been kind of annoying. The thing is, Weezing is able to set Toxic Spikes with ease on most physical attackers, while letting them wear down just about any special attacker not named Moltres or Yanmega (it can catch the latter with a burn upon switch-in) Honestly, if your primary special attacker isn't Moltres (specifically one with Roost) then Weezing stands a pretty good chance of outlasting them and proceeding to wall most of your physical attackers. I've gotten to the point where I run Zen Headbutt on Virizion with one of my teams just due to how hard it is for me to beat this thing. It lacks reliable recovery, but Pain Split and good defensive synergy with Aromatisse get it by. It also gets Clear Smog, so good luck setting up on it. B+ worthy imo

Doublade: Spirit covered the versatility aspect, but there's another aspect I want to focus on. Doublade IS hazards offense right now. You can come at me with the hazard setters, the wallbreakers, the amazing late-game sweepers. No, don't come at me with that. Hazards offense is as good as it is because of Doublade. It matches up incredibly well with every spinner in the tier except for Sandslash (which is as viable as it is because it beats Doublade so easily) and Claydol (which sucks) On top of this, it can take advantage of those hazards and sweep with Swords Dance, so it doesn't bog down these teams one bit. You can argue the vulnerability to Fire-types, but is it really that vulnerable to them? Shadow Claw + Shadow Sneak KOes Moltres if it tries to switch-in with Rocks up. Delphox is weak to Ghost. Full physical variants of Emboar have to commit suicide to beat Doublade. It also uses Aromatisse, arguably the best wall in the tier, as pure setup fodder. It fits on any team, has great sweeping and tanking potential, and (imo) defines Hazards Offense in RU. That makes it worthy of S rank imo

 

[atomicllamas]

This has been talked a lot about, but Rhyperior down to A+. It's a really cool mon that can be slapped on p much every team, but idk if it is actually an S rank Pokemon. I think it is just a pretty good glue mon. I'd give more reasoning, but I'm on my phone.

 

[Afro Smash]

I think Heliolisk should stay in B, whilst it does face competition from Jolteon, It has enough factors that differentiate it, and make it better for certain teams/situations. First off is Dry Skin which allows it to come in the Water types it can so easily threaten out, and proceed to gain easy momentum, now Clawitzer and Slowking do have coverage moves to threaten, but it still stops them Recklessly spamming Scald, and Lanturn/Qwilfish/Omastar/Alomomola can't do anything but try to Toxic on the switch or hit it with horribly weak atks. Second is access to Grass Knot, which is far better coverage than HP Water on Jolteon since it not only allows you to not be completely shut down by Gastrodon and Seismitoad, it also allows you to easily OHKO Rhyperior, as opposed to doing 59-70%, meaning you're not forced to predict the switch. Finally because of the coverage Grass Knot offers you are able to use your Hidden Power as Ice, allowing you to OHKO Gligar and hit Grass types super effectively. Also yeah Checking Doublade is always useful.

Base 109 Speed is fast enough for 90% of the tier as well, so Jolteon really doesn't have much over it, in fact I wouldn't be opposed to Heliolisk rising to B+.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I agree with atomicllamas on dropping Rhyperior to A+ imo. It's pretty good for sure but I've never had an issue dealing with it. It's a nice tank that can take hits well and set up Rocks and all, but it's rather easy to wear down. Its bulk and resistances, plus its great offensive presence are all really nice, but the weaknesses it has really suck, especially since a lot of common threats like Alomomola, Virizion, Gurdurr, and Gligar can deal with it rather easily. Never have I thought "Oh wow I really need to get at least two things for Rhyperior because otherwise it'll destroy my team". A lot of the Pokemon that can deal with it are undeniably viable as well. Offensive sets are cool but not really S worthy. It's still a great mon and splashable but A+ is more fitting for it imo.

Weezing is pretty good, it has nice physical bulk and a good defensive typing, plus Will-O-Wisp which make it a really nice physical wall. Being able to set up Toxic Spikes is a really nice bonus. It's pretty hard for any physical attacker to actually break it and having only one weakness really helps it defensively. I haven't used it much, but when I've faced it it's proven itself to be a pretty good threat. EonX and Spirit explained a lot of Weezing's qualities well so I don't feel like reiterating, but B+ would be good for it imo.

I don't have a completely strong opinion on Doublade, but putting it in S wouldn't be a terrible idea. It's been pretty useful whenever I've used it, it switches into a lot of things really well, can sweep decently with SD, and in general is a very good Pokemon. It's a pretty meta defining mon because it's a great setup sweeper that handles a lot of top threats really well. It's a threat in every match it's in so S wouldn't be a bad idea.

Finally, regarding Heliolisk, I'm torn. It has to compete with Jolteon, which is faster, but it has some cool advantages as Afro said, like being able to run HP Ice+Grass Knot together so it can hit Ground-types pretty hard. It laughs at Alomomola which is nice since that thing is a pain in the butt to deal with. Idk, it's generally worse than Jolt but it has some advantages. I'd say if it should move down, then B- would probably be better than C+, seeing as how it could be comparable to Cinccino, Barbaracle, and Dragalge, and it still does decently on its own, so I think B- might be a little better, but I guess I don't have much right to say much else lol.

Just a few thoughts.