Resource RU Viability Rankings Thread

[Punchshroom]

Yo EonX, I get that Absol is a cool mon and all, but S Rank seems a bit much for it.

Ok, time for the nom I think a lot of you guys have been waiting for:

Absol for S rank: It's no secret that Dark-types kind of dominate the metagame right now. Absol, Houndoom, and Sharpedo are the big 3. Of them, Absol performs the best overall by far. Its base 130 Attack stat is absolutely insane and while Absol was good in BW RU for those who remember that, the Knock Off buff only makes it harder to handle.

There's also Sneasel and Drapion in terms of Dark-type competition. Sharpedo and Sneasel pose bigger threats to offense, whereas Houndoom and Drapion are usually more threatening against slower teams; it just doesn't seem like Absol is significantly that much more consistent at threatening most playstyles for me to consider it "the best overall by far", much less be placed in S Rank.

Sucker Punch and Knock Off should be on just about every Absol set out there. Knock Off is super powerful and is severely denting just about anything that doesn't resist it with a very select few exceptions. (I'll get back to those in a minute) From there, Absol has two moveslots to work with that it can use to mix and match to do what its team needs it to do. So, let's run through those moves real quick just to give you an idea as to how flexible Absol is:

Boasting the most powerful Knock Off and Sucker Punch in the tier are certainly points in Absol's favor, especially when most of the tier's faster Dark resists, such as Hitmonlee, Sharpedo, Houndoom, and Sneasel do not take kindly to eating Sucker. However, Absol is also kind of slow for how damn frail it is, so it can be pretty reliant on Sucker Punch at times, especially when the aforementioned Dark resists can all pack priority to circumvent Sucker and blast Absol in the face. Where I feel you're starting to blow things out of proportion is when you start discussing its moves:

Swords Dance: Boosting Attack two stages on a Pokemon that's already a powerful force is downright devastating. Sucker Punch virtually OHKOes every offensive mon in the tier at +2 and Knock Off is breaking Alomomola at +2, one of the very few defensive Pokemon that can work its way around Absol without a boost. While extreme frailty and average Speed can sometimes hinder it setting up, this usually only comes into play vs. faster teams, in which case Absol's raw power will be enough to deal with them.
Superpower: This does heavy damage to Mega Steelix and hits most Fighting-types hard enough to KO them. The stat drops suck, but this nulifies Dark- and bulky Steel-type switch-ins in an instant.
Iron Tail: Fairy-types are usually the best answer to Dark-types, but Absol has the ability to run Iron Tail to quickly eliminate or severely damage every Fairy-type in the tier. Iron Tail is especially deadly on a Swords Dance set as Absol can use SD as a Fairy switches in and immediately demolish it with Iron Tail.
Pursuit: This is probably the go-to move to use if you're looking for something other than Swords Dance in Absol's 3rd slot. Pursuit allows it to destroy Pokemon that are fleeing in fear of Sucker Punch or Knock Off. This can be especially useful if you're using it with Scarf Medicham to ensure bulky Ghosts and Psychics are severely weakened or outright removed.
Fire Blast: Really only useful if you're not using Swords Dance and need a stronger hit on Mega Steelix. However, considering it is the best Mega in the tier, that might make it worth using.
Psycho Cut: Useful for beating Amoonguss and Vileplume reliably after a Knock Off switch-in. Considering Amoonguss has Spore and Vileplume has Moonblast, this can be very helpful. And Sucker Punch is no guarantee on Vileplume since it commonly carries Synthesis.
Play Rough: Probably the least useful coverage move Absol might want to use, but it does do very heavy damage to Hariyama and Poliwrath. It doesn't do much outside of this, but considering these two can handle any other attack Absol throws at them, it does have legitimate use.

I feel like you're giving a bit too much credit for Absol here. Swords Dance and Superpower are indeed some of Absol's best tools, though Sneasel can also make decent enough use of SD and Low Kick while faring much better against offense without help from SD. Iron Tail is shaky enough to make one consider Poison Jab Drapion in its place (especially since Iron Tail really wants to be paired with SD); while Drapion lacks super strong priority, Poison Jab does strike more targets and Drapion does have the bulk and Speed to find more SD opportunities. Pursuit is especially risky from Absol given its poor bulk and only average Speed; Sneasel's Speed, Houndoom's resists, and Spiritomb's bulk make them seem like better, if not more reliable candidates for this task. The last three moves only make me just want to use other Dark-types in its place, namely Houndoom's Fire STAB, Sneasel's Ice STAB, and even Shiftry's Grass STAB respectively.

So after looking at these moves, can you think of a Pokemon that might be able to handle every move Absol can utilize? And remember that Absol can run a combination of these coverage moves (tho remember Pursuit and Fire Blast likely won't be used with SD) While Absol is never going to be able to carry all of the moves it needs to take on everything at once, you do have to honor those coverage options and scout to figure out what you need to deal with the Absol variant you're facing. Keep in mind that this is all with one base set (Adamant max /max Life Orb. Jolly doesn't get you anything in terms of Speed) The versatility with one set is amazing. It doesn't need very much support at all to function. It's able to wallbreak and sweep what it chooses to thanks to virtually having two free moveslots. It's very consistent and always pulls its weight so long as the user knows what they're doing. I think that's a sign of an S rank Pokemon.

Absol is certainly versatile, but I don't think Absol manages to utilize every move it has at its disposal, at least not that much more effectively than other Dark-types can (especially with my point above); the fact that Absol lacks secondary STAB, unlike other Dark-types, is a big point against it as well. Like Absol has some other funky moves like Will-O-Wisp and Perish Song at its disposal but you can hardly argue that toys like those are enough to propel Absol in rank when they hardly offer crazy new things when it comes to responding against the numerous offensive Darks in RU. Absol is definitely a very strong Dark-type by RU standards, but considering the measures RU has against Dark-types as it is, I really don't see Absol being placed on the S Rank pedestal above its Dark brethren; A+ definitely seems fine for now.

Oh and btw Drapion happens to be a very solid Absol check, while Hitmontop counters for days @3@.

 

[Lord Death Man]

A few thoughts, not writing too much because I think these opinions are shared with other people who probably are more passionate than me.

I wouldn't rank Stunfisk right now but I am concerned about how weak some of you think paralysis is. CM King, CM Meloetta, Gurdurr, etc should all be able to fish for free turns against a paralyzed enemy, so it's never that bad to accidentally paralyze something. unless you're running no wincon stall or you para their wincon hat has a great matchup versus you, but thankfully static doesn't hit cm mons and stunfisk has a good matchup itself vs any wincon you might not want to paralyze, including gurdurr. Its real problem is that it has no defensive niche and it's typing isn't very good defensively minus durant/fletchinder. It's a fletch check that isn't weak to fighting I guess.

Kabutops should be at least C+ imo, its like by far the best HO spinner (still sucks) which is a big deal whenever webs exist and I still think SD sets have a small niche in different coverage than samurott + more speed + more immediate power (considering how close samurott gets to KOing lix from full, this is a decent sized deal). Key role is spinner + fletch check on HO though.

Delphox I think should be B+, but I can see it staying in B. yeah it gets dunked by slowking and usually doom (cm HP water is cool!!) but it also is a massive threat to offense teams without doom and balance teams without doom or slowking. it has good synergy with like every mega too. Aerodactyl sucks for it a lot though, as does the rise of Samurott and other similar mons.

Accelgor should be like B or maybe even B+, LO sets are crazy against offense and okay against balance because of its insane coverage. it outspeeds base 80 scarfs as well which is a pretty big deal with medicham back in the tier, since it lets it revenge it with a little prior damage. it's main resist on like any teams are fletch and emboar, one of which is in a bad position if rocks are up and the other is going to kill itself eventually. spikes lead is whatever.

Shiftry is hard to justify in B-. is there something massive I'm missing? it's kind of a bad mon and faces competition from essentially everything and I don't think I really need to clarify that much when I say that. it's so threatened by virizion, fletchinder, amoonguss, mega steelix, togetic and mega abomasnow while competing with absol and also every other mon with strong priority. I'm really curious what set(s) made this B-.

Jynx seems a little high to me but I can't place why exactly. Same with Banette and Piloswine. I haven't seen these mons do anything in forever and while usage =/= viability, never seeing a mon perform in a match is usually a bad sign. I can't really articulate this but I imagine someone else can. Jynx is really easily pursuit trapped + struggles to break a few common cores unless it drops lovely kiss for a coverage move, Banette is like the single most high cost mega even if I do think gunk shot sets are decent enough, and Piloswine is in a perpetual bad position against a lot of teams in this meta.

Cofagrigus is like a C+ mon, C- seems low when C has stuff like gastrodon. i've never used anything but colbur trick room on offense but the amount of role compression it provides is incredible. it checks (and sets up on) medicham and glalie, stops fletch sweeps, sort of checks durant (does check scarf durant, the worst set for offense to face), checks lee especially unburden lee, can let tyrantrum suicide on it if it's taken a little prior damage, sort of checks malamar. I know it has a lot of competition from TR NP slowking, but Cofagrigus is different because it beats different stuff. its also a godsend for ending late game sharpedo sweeps, something colbur slowking is not quite as good at. its not solid but it is something I've considered for teams several times, unlike almost anything else in C and C-.

Aromatisse should be B+ and I think everything's been said about that. Too passive, doesn't wall enough, weak to popular mons.

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

Unranked to C-

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic

With all the new drops hype and specially the hazard stacking+Blastoise teams, I feel Clefairy deserves a slot on the viability rankings right now as a stealth rocks user. Apart for being a good special wall with reliable recovery and inmunnity to status damage and hazards, Toxic Clefable is able to beat 1v1 the most common hazard control mons of the tier barring Hitmonlee and Golbat:

Flygon: LO Timid Earth Power 4OHKOs Clefairy. vs bulky Flygon both EQ and Moonblast are 3OHKO but Clefairy ignores toxic and wins. Scarf and physical variants 2OHKOs though,
Blastoise: It just Roars meanwhile Clef set rocks or Toxic and it can switch back anything it wants.
Hitmontop: It does nothing. Literally. Low ladder's Adamant Tecnician Bullet Punch Hitmontop 3OHKOs.
Togetic: Burn Heal Bell's PP. Clef wins after 20 turns

It also has good match-up versus:
Pelipper and Swanna: Same than bulky Flygon. Toxic wins Hurricane's confuse.
Shiftry?: Your Eviolite gets knocked off, but Knock Off+Leaf Storm can't kill anyway.

Other options on Clefairy would be T-wave, as lots of mons uses to set-up on Clef, specially Durant, meanwhile Healing wish heals up any mon we choose, our win-con most of the time (why I'm explaining how this move works?). Finally, Fire Blast woulf get a 94.1% chance 2OHKO AV Escavalier after rocks, meanwhile
Durant gets OHKO by Flamethrower. I haven't tested CM Clefairy but I guess it's not worth a teamslot.

After all, Clefairy depends a lot on Eviolite to keep its bulk, and its a set-up folder for anything. It's poor special attack doesn't even kill DD Scrafty 100% (31.3% chance without rocks) even with STAB Moonblast. Despite this, Clefairy is an unique mon thanks to its ability and SR on a mono-fairy type. C- rank

Calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 124-147 (36 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 142-169 (41.2 - 49.1%)
252 SpA Life Orb Flygon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 87-105 (25.2 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 127-150 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 134-160 (38.9 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-302914808
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-303550890

 

[Homiedino]

I wouldn't consider Stunfisk to be great on stall even if it were a better playstyle in this meta. I'd much rather use Mega Steelix to check Tyrantrum and Fletchinder. Paralysis can be a detriment against mons you'd rather poison or burn, its sweet SpD is hampered by its typing, and most mons have a coverage attack for it. Its higher HP also means its getting less wish recovery than Mega Steelix. Not to mention its weak SpA. Stunfisk is a fun mon to try to make work, but it's just so outclassed. Keeping Water types from switching in safely is something I guess, but its weakness to Water attacks really cuts down on its usefulness. The only scenario where I'd prefer Stunfisk on stall is against Accelgor since it survives Final Gambit. I'd say keep Stunfisk Unranked, D at the most.

It's not necessarily outclassed. I like the point that water types like Slowking cannot switch in to it safely. Plus, it checks fletch BETTER than fletch because most Steelix sets don't hit fletch for much damage, and Steelix doesn't appreciate will o wisp burns or overheats. And they wall Tyrantrum about evenly, especially if tyrant has superpower over earthquake. At least stunfisk has passive recovery with leftovers that megalix doesn't. btw, try a stunfisk-Mega Abomasnow core. Its pretty good with some hazard removal and slowking.

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

Plus, it checks fletch BETTER than fletch because most Steelix sets don't hit fletch for much damage.

That is untrue. M-Steelix gets Stone Edge to one-shot Fletch even burned, but it's usually prefered to set rocks for free. Even if Fletch stays EQ kills on roost after 2 Heavy Slams. Stunkfish seems quite decent but it has bad match-up vs most common hazard removals, one of the main criteria to judge a good SR setter. Stunkfish has good match-up vs Golbat, Togetic, Xatu, ¿Kabutops? and Skuntank I guess, but it loses to the best defogger (Flygon), and spinner (Blastoise), as well as Pelipper and Shiftry (Dunno on Hitmontop). I can't see any big resistance on Stunkfish over Steelix or even Camerupt. I can see it ranked though, but I won't support it.

 

[Oddish is the best]

Um, hi


Anyways I have a few changes I'd like to nominate (or whatever)

Mespirt B+> B I'm a little confused as to why this is a sub rank higher then a pokemon like Delphox. I feel like the new meta hurts it as threats like sharpedo and absol have entered the meta game. It also feels like a weird mix between Melo and Uxie and I just don't really think it's B+ rank material right now. Also, if I wanted to use an offensive psychic I would use Melo/Delphox and for defensive Uxie... I'm just not seeing why it's B+ atm

Roselia B> B- I LOVE roselia and I think it's really good on more defensive teams, but I feel like it's role is a little too niche to be B rank imo as other Grass/Poison types are easier to fit on teams then the rose

Malamar B> B-/C+ It's slow and required multiple superpowers in order to actually get reasonably bulky and even then... I'm just not really sure why this pokemon is in B rank with things like Delphox, Granbull, and Gallade.

Rotom Fan C+> B-/B Ok Rotom fan is seriously underrated right now. It's one of the only thigns in the tier that can reliably check Durant, a notable problem that defensive teams have. It can also check fleth as well and just feels pretty solid right now

Qwilfish A> A- I think this pokemon is a little too high. It's pretty easily work down and in this fast pace metagame it's harder to set up spikes for something that isn't as bulky or fast as a Roselia or Accelgor. I still think it's good, but I just think that it's bulk isn't THAT great and it gets worn down pretty easily atm and fits more of the A- definition.

 

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

Qwilfish A> A- I think this pokemon is a little too high. It's pretty easily work down and in this fast pace metagame it's harder to set up spikes for something that isn't as bulky or fast as a Roselia or Accelgor. I still think it's good, but I just think that it's bulk isn't THAT great and it gets worn down pretty easily atm and fits more of the A- definition.

I definitely agree with all of those noms except qwilfish. Qwilfish is really good as a spike setter currently. Intimidate+ehh speed+T wave+Taunt+Spikes+Tspikes+Destiny Bond+Decent bulk with investment is a fantastic combination of traits that IMO definitely keep qwilfish up at A rank.

 

[Miyami~~]

It's not necessarily outclassed. I like the point that water types like Slowking cannot switch in to it safely. Plus, it checks fletch BETTER than fletch because most Steelix sets don't hit fletch for much damage, and Steelix doesn't appreciate will o wisp burns or overheats. And they wall Tyrantrum about evenly, especially if tyrant has superpower over earthquake. At least stunfisk has passive recovery with leftovers that megalix doesn't. btw, try a stunfisk-Mega Abomasnow core. Its pretty good with some hazard removal and slowking.

Well, of course stunfisk checks fletchinder better than fletchinder. That's irrevlevant. Mega Steelix also has massively higher defences and also serves as a rocker and a phaser, while not being weak to some of the most common types in the tier.

 

[phantom]

Mespirt B+> B I'm a little confused as to why this is a sub rank higher then a pokemon like Delphox. I feel like the new meta hurts it as threats like sharpedo and absol have entered the meta game. It also feels like a weird mix between Melo and Uxie and I just don't really think it's B+ rank material right now. Also, if I wanted to use an offensive psychic I would use Melo/Delphox and for defensive Uxie... I'm just not seeing why it's B+ atm

Healing Wish and Stealth Rock. The ability to use both in a single slot is incredible for offensive teams. In addition, Colbur Berry has been a standard item on Mesprit for a while now (in conjunction with Dazzling Gleam), so it actually has the capability to soft check a lot of the new Dark-types that entered the tier, or still check longstanding threats such as Scrafty. The utility it provides in a single slot definitely makes it B+.

If you don't even mention the niche the Pokemon in question has or explain why it got worse as a result of the metagame changes, then you shouldn't discuss it in the first place. In general, (and this goes for everyone since I've been seeing it a lot so far) try and base your nominations on Pokemon you actually have experience with. Thanks.

 

[Punchshroom]

In addition to that, Mesprit also can fend off many hazard removers: Golbat and Hitmontop fear Psychic STAB, Flygon gets shot down by Ice Beam, and Mesprit can even pull off a Healing Wish as a last-ditch effort to deny Rapid Spin and Defog. Definitely one of the more consistent Stealth Rockers for offense, especially considering its not too shabby bulk, Speed, and power for a SRer.

Malamar B> B-/C+ It's slow and required multiple superpowers in order to actually get reasonably bulky and even then... I'm just not really sure why this pokemon is in B rank with things like Delphox, Granbull, and Gallade.

As someone who made voting reqs with Malamar, I must intervene here. First Ima show you the set Malamar wants to use in RU:

Malamar @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 104 SpD / 152 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This is basically the BU Scrafty people have been looking for, except it doesn't suck and actually works decently due to a couple of factors. First off, the ability to boost while doing damage is huge, as it means Malamar doesn't lose any momentum while building itself up. This leaves room for RestTalk, which helps to compensate for Superpower's low PP and attack reliably (2/3 of the time) while asleep, unlike Shed Skin Scrafty (30% of immediate wake). You say Malamar is slow, but it is fast enough to attempt to outspeed some of the heaviest hitters in the tier, namely Adamant Tyrantrum, Exploud, Emboar, and Samurott, letting it smack them to either KO some of them after a boost or even just soften the incoming blow. Finally, Malamar's weaknesses are nowhere near as exploitable as Scrafty's. Stuff like Hitmonlee, Medicham, Virizion, Emboar, opposing Scrafty, etc. can obliterate BU Scrafty with their powerful Fighting STAB before the latter gets anywhere. As for Malamar, the only two relevant Bug-type attackers are Durant and Escavalier, the latter of which is slower and has no recovery, meaning it can be overpowered in due time. You can complain about U-turn, but even those would glance off Malamar after enough provided they are unSTAB; U-turn from the likes of Uxie and bulky Flygon already do laughable damage after just one boost.

I found Malamar to be decently effective at harassing most bulky cores (yet another reason I wouldn't touch Granbull over Aromatisse, as Intimidate + reliance on physical moves means Bull stands a good chance to lose), but even against offense Malamar doesn't prove to shabby if it can get a Superpower boost going, which it can against things like Mega Steelix Mega Abomasnow, Scrafty, and Qwilfish. From there, Malamar can take at least one hit from any faster non-Durant attacker, and its boosted attacks allow it to do substantial damage if not outright KO its opponent, so it doesn't manage to be deadweight either. So yeah, Malamar is not as slow nor reliant enough on multiple Superpowers to be 'reasonably bulky' as you think.

 

[Miyami~~]

I feel like Delphox could potentially go a rank due to the ton of viable dark types as well as Blastoise. Unless people drop a Psychic STAB to get both Dazzling Gleam and Grass knot on the same set.

 

[Lord Death Man]

The viability of Dark types and Blastoise barely mean anything when none of them want to come in on Phox to begin with. Psychic 2hkos phys def Blastoise unboosted, 2hkos spdef at +1, and Fire Blast does a huge chunk to nearly every dark type, doing more than dazzling gleam to all of them except Scrafty, Houndoom and Sharpedo, and two of those take about 70% on a low roll ie can't come in.
It also doesn't really have trouble setting up since it forces out like half the meta, and a +1 Delphox 2hkos everything but Houndoom and Slowking with just it's stabs.

Dropping Psychic for Grass Knot means you do worse against Alomomola for minimal benefit. The choice is between HP Water (does a ton to Doom unboosted) and Grass Knot/Shadow Ball, which 2hko AV Slowking. Otherwise, Delphox's stabs are more than good enough and the only reason it's not much higher is that Houndoom exists and does essentially the same thing a little better while also countering Delphox, but it's speed tier and ability to bust through Emboar/Poliwrath/Hariyama are massive. I think B+ is where it should be honestly.

 

[SotheBlacKnight]

The viability of Dark types and Blastoise barely mean anything when none of them want to come in on Phox to begin with. Psychic 2hkos phys def Blastoise unboosted, 2hkos spdef at +1, and Fire Blast does a huge chunk to nearly every dark type, doing more than dazzling gleam to all of them except Scrafty, Houndoom and Sharpedo, and two of those take about 70% on a low roll ie can't come in.
It also doesn't really have trouble setting up since it forces out like half the meta, and a +1 Delphox 2hkos everything but Houndoom and Slowking with just it's stabs.

Dropping Psychic for Grass Knot means you do worse against Alomomola for minimal benefit. The choice is between HP Water (does a ton to Doom unboosted) and Grass Knot/Shadow Ball, which 2hko AV Slowking. Otherwise, Delphox's stabs are more than good enough and the only reason it's not much higher is that Houndoom exists and does essentially the same thing a little better while also countering Delphox, but it's speed tier and ability to bust through Emboar/Poliwrath/Hariyama are massive. I think B+ is where it should be honestly.

What kind of Delphox 2hko's AV Slowking? Maybe I'm using an unpopular set but no Delphox 2hko's an AV Slowking except Modest Choice Specs with rocks on the field.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Delphox Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 162-192 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Delphox Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 162-192 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

and something tells me this is not the most popular or even best Delphox set.

With that said I agree that Delphox is still a viable threat and can cripple any def core that focuses on Poliwrath or Hariyama.

 

[lighthouses]

Assault vest isn't the best/most popular set for slowking either, it's probably its weakest one actually.

 

[Lord Death Man]

What kind of Delphox 2hko's AV Slowking? Maybe I'm using an unpopular set but no Delphox 2hko's an AV Slowking except Modest Choice Specs with rocks on the field.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Delphox Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 162-192 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Delphox Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 162-192 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

and something tells me this is not the most popular or even best Delphox set.

With that said I agree that Delphox is still a viable threat and can cripple any def core that focuses on Poliwrath or Hariyama.

I meant at +1 with a Life Orb but that was unclear because I didn't say it. The point I was trying to make was that both of Delphox's counters can lose to it with the right coverage, and it has room to beat one of the two on the standard offensive calm mind sets (in exchange, it does worse versus either spdef Camerupt if you're grass knot or Rhyperior/Seismitoad/Anything ohko'd by an unboosted grass knot if you're hp water).

 

[Take Azelfie]

Kabutops should be at least C+ imo, its like by far the best HO spinner (still sucks) which is a big deal whenever webs exist and I still think SD sets have a small niche in different coverage than samurott + more speed + more immediate power (considering how close samurott gets to KOing lix from full, this is a decent sized deal). Key role is spinner + fletch check on HO though.

Hitmonlee doesn't count?

Mismagius
C- ---> C/C+
Hazard stacking has become extreemly hard since Blastoise has entered the for the most part. Since Mismagius can capitalize on that with Nasty Plot or use Taunt to stop Roar is your opponent wants to stay in. I have been using Colbur Berry and variants without Taunt and instead of Dazzling Gleam which helps to bait out some fighting types and dark-types. Either way I feel its niche as a spin blocker has grown since the last tier shift. Spin blocking isn't its only niche thought as it can be a fast sweeper similar to Houndoom with a nice base 105 speed. Its bulk doesn't give it to many set up oppurtunities unfortunately and the many new dark-types hinder it a lot.

 

[Kableye]

Hitmonlee doesn't count?

Mismagius
C- ---> C/C+
Hazard stacking has become extreemly hard since Blastoise has entered the for the most part. Since Mismagius can capitalize on that with Nasty Plot or use Taunt to stop Roar is your opponent wants to stay in. I have been using Colbur Berry and variants without Taunt and instead of Dazzling Gleam which helps to bait out some fighting types and dark-types. Either way I feel its niche as a spin blocker has grown since the last tier shift. Spin blocking isn't its only niche thought as it can be a fast sweeper similar to Houndoom with a nice base 105 speed. Its bulk doesn't give it to many set up oppurtunities unfortunately and the many new dark-types hinder it a lot.

Hitmonlee is by far one of the worst hazard removers. It pressures hazard setters but it's lack of bulk, typing and reliance on LO makes finding an oppuntunity to spin and keeping hazards off the field for longer games extremely difficult. In my opinion dual priority should be its only set since it threatens offensive and defensive alike and the only reason it remains in A-

 

[lighthouses]

Gurdurr to A-: Lack of psychic types running around and increase of strong dark types makes this thing all the more anti-meta than it already was. Checks tyrantrum, absol, scrafty, sharpedo, houndoom and sets up on a good number of now common pokemon(just scroll over your teams and count the ones that lose to gurdurr lol) it's also a decent status absorber as well. People simply lack the room on teams for them to fit an answer to this, these answers being like: strong psychic types and fairies.

Druddigon to A-: Rocky helmet druddigon is crazy at the moment, not only does it provide your team with an actual good durant answer but it also punishes a ton of common physical threats and discourages them from clicking an attacking move(think fletchinder, scarfers, virizion etc etc). It can even work as a status absorber as well running sleeptalk with rocks and dragon tail which does pretty much the same thing as the regular set while actually lasting a lot longer, albeit being a little more passive(even though there arent many fairies running around to begin with). It provides balance teams with an answer to eelektross while being a great blanket check.

It took me a great amount of effort to put these little lines of pokemon discussion with my english skills, so, if anyone agrees and wants to elaborate then feel free to do so xd

 

[Lord Death Man]

Missy sucks as a spinblocker outside of webs.

Gurdurr is a very cool mon, and I support it rising to A-. It seems a little lame superficially, since it's easily worn down, but it's decent speed tier (40) and chances to set up on common mons without fear of status can be really helpful on almost all team comps. It comes in and beats stuff like Scrafty, Drapion, SD Virizion, Escavalier, and Tyrantrum, while revenging Absol, Sharpedo, Houndoom, all of whom are a massive pain for most teams. After a bulk up, it's really hard to take out without a super effective or obscenely powerful special attack, made even rarer by Psyshock being some set's go-to choice for psychic stab. Fairies are getting rarer as well, which helps Gurdurr absolutely crush a lot of teams. Drain Punch + Guts makes it hard for things like Mola to stall out Toxic turns and impossible to stall out burns.

A few calcs to show how tough it can be to revenge.

Gurdurr vs the World

252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 138-164 (36.8 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 234-276 (62.5 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 190-225 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 339-400 (90.6 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 298-352 (79.6 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - if they have Psyshock for some reason

It also is a Tyrantrum check for offense.

EDIT: Here's a decent replay
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-305975781

As you can see, their team isn't really weak to other fighting types (maybe emboar), but Gurdurr is really difficult for them to play around and comes in effortlessly on Tyrantrum, who also can't afford to outrage because it doesn't 2hko my Qwilfish lead.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Are there any plans to reclassify the rankings the way UnderUsed have done, i.e. reflecting perceived standing within each rank rather than alphabetically? Or does the metagame with the new non-mega drops need more maturation?

 

[MrAldo]

Because an order like that is imo unnecessary, when the description for said ranks are already perfectly clear. Making more subdivisions will make this far more "subjective" and it just sounds tacky.

I respect dodmen and how his implemented that method on UU viability rankings but honestly, that just overcomplicate things, especially for nominations of any sort. I sincerely dont see the need of it.

Also, leave mesprit on B+ It has done nothing wrong and it is still an amazing mon on offense given the outstanding role compression it provided and its matchup against the ever common flygon is really neat. Dont touch the pixie!

 

[Homiedino]

That is untrue. M-Steelix gets Stone Edge to one-shot Fletch even burned, but it's usually prefered to set rocks for free. Even if Fletch stays EQ kills on roost after 2 Heavy Slams. Stunkfish seems quite decent but it has bad match-up vs most common hazard removals, one of the main criteria to judge a good SR setter. Stunkfish has good match-up vs Golbat, Togetic, Xatu, ¿Kabutops? and Skuntank I guess, but it loses to the best defogger (Flygon), and spinner (Blastoise), as well as Pelipper and Shiftry (Dunno on Hitmontop). I can't see any big resistance on Stunkfish over Steelix or even Camerupt. I can see it ranked though, but I won't support it.

Steelix also loses to blastoise, flygon, and pelipper. Stunfisk actually beats pelipper:
0 SpA Pelipper Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Stunfisk: 152-180 (36 - 42.6%) -- 92.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Stunfisk Discharge vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Pelipper: 384-456 (118.8 - 141.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yes, Stunfisk has its flaws, but my point is not to prove that its the best pokemon in the tier, but to prove there's a niche in the meta it fills and that it has viability in RU.

 

[Miyami~~]

Steelix also loses to blastoise, flygon, and pelipper. Stunfisk actually beats pelipper:
0 SpA Pelipper Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Stunfisk: 152-180 (36 - 42.6%) -- 92.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Stunfisk Discharge vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Pelipper: 384-456 (118.8 - 141.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yes, Stunfisk has its flaws, but my point is not to prove that its the best pokemon in the tier, but to prove there's a niche in the meta it fills and that it has viability in RU.

But not on the level of B-. Also, While Stunfisk beats Pellipper, with the set you posted on the last page, Stunfisk can't touch flygon at all. Steelix also beats Physical Fligon pretty handily as well, with more defence than Stunfisk can't even dream about. Stunfisk vs. Blastoise is extremely iffy as well for Stunfisk, being weak to water and blastoise having higher speed and great defences.

So yeah, don't point out things a Pokémon who completely outclasses the Pokémon you are trying to nominate has issues with if your Pokémon fares even worse against them. I can see Stunfisk in D at the absolute highest, as it's outclassed in every way by Mega Steelix and faces stiff competition from every other rocker in the tier.

 

[empire370]

to a-
Exploud is such a great right now due to being a amazing ability+with 140bp stab, and awesome coverage
I feel the recent drops has benefitted it as well since it can beat all of them one on one except( superpower absol+ cb aerodatly)
but choice specs or even lo sets continue to be a threat to many mons here are some cool calcs:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 96+ SpD Slowking: 226-267 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Jellicent: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 151-178 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(no one runs that much sdef but just to brag)
It has more wallbreaking abilties than some of those above it and it coverage makes it have no switch ins, it works well on a lot of of teams and can do its job consitently most of the time, while there are flaws like low speed and meh bulk its still a very good mon atm and i feel rising it should be dicusssed

 

[Umen Berker]

to a-
Exploud is such a great right now due to being a amazing ability+with 140bp stab, and awesome coverage
I feel the recent drops has benefitted it as well since it can beat all of them one on one except( superpower absol+ cb aerodatly)
but choice specs or even lo sets continue to be a threat to many mons here are some cool calcs:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 96+ SpD Slowking: 226-267 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Jellicent: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 151-178 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(no one runs that much sdef but just to brag)
It has more wallbreaking abilties than some of those above it and it coverage makes it have no switch ins, it works well on a lot of of teams and can do its job consitently most of the time, while there are flaws like low speed and meh bulk its still a very good mon atm and i feel rising it should be dicusssed

I can't say I've had this problem specficslly but by those numbers couldn't slowking stall out boomburst with a few proper switches for regenerator? Switching into... Well.. any steel type with reasonable special bulk (doesn't get the garunteed 3hko on aggron locked into boomburst, stelix with no Special defense investment gets 3HKOed at best by it, brongzong laughs, and escavalier misses the 2hko even without assault vest.) Add in that all three of explouds other typical coverage moves do less than 20% to 252/96+ slowking (the one you stated in your example) and you would think that slowking dropping has made exploud much less viable as there is now a fairly solid answer to the choice speced version to both its main stab (almost anything that resists it can take it a few times) and to any of its coverage moves in slowking, who can heal off the damage easily with either regenerator or slack off. Of which using the latter exploud locked into the wrong move becomes set up fodder for calm mind varients. And if played properly and carefully can even take on it locked into boomburst as at +1 with the 252/96+ example you used the 2hko is not garunteed after leftevers recovery.

All in all I think that having such a solid answer to its coverage moves, one of the big things that makes it so threatening as it can OHKO most of the mons that can switch into its STAB, exploud has gotten weaker on the whole.