Salamence Theorymonning

[SJCrew]

It's about fucking time.

I've said time and time again that Salamence is an Uber in the OU backyard, but since everyone's so used to losing a Pokemon every single match, they think nothing of it. Well, I'm tired of trying to "counter" that beast because quite frankly, it's next to impossible. Cresselia is probably the only Pokemon that can handle both MixMence and DD Mence reliable, but even then, it's probably gonna die like everything else.

Oh, and by the way, Scizor is not a Salamence counter. I cannot stress this enough. If you come in on a Fire Blast or Draco Meteor, your shit is fucked. If you try to use it for DD Mence, it'll probably take Scizor down with it.

That said, I'm glad we're finally doing something about this. I can't imagine OU without Mence, but that doesn't mean this shouldn't be done.

 

[MegaKick]

Good ridance to latias.

Now lets ban mence.
Right now dragonite must be like, "this is the greatest day ever"

I will ladder like never before. For the first time I agree with SJCrew. It has no counters. When your "counter" (scizor) takes 50%+ from draco meteor, it's time for a change.

P.s. Scarftar is gonna drop like an elephant holding an anvil on jupiter

 

[Nachos]

Disappointed that Latias got voted Uber, but it was expected really.

Oh well, hope this council leads to things such as Deoxys-D tests in the future.

 

[Laprabi]

Well at least now people won't have to pack a counter to it. I hated the thing anyway.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Basically I see every team being Infernape + Mence + Starmie/Gengar Counter now. That's why I actually see Scarftar staying in place since it's excellent for that last slot. Shame for that.

 

[WECAMEASROMANS]

Salamence, imo, should have been Uber a long time ago. It already fills two of the necessary characteristics to make it Uber. The DD sets sweep way too easily, thus making it an offense characteristics. The mixed sets tears down stall like a mother, so another pokemon (like gyarados) can sweep. This makes Salamence a suspect in the Support characteristic.

Also, good job with the Latias vote. I am so sick of that thing plaguing the OU metagame.

 

[Forte.EXE]

I'm extremely happy about this development. Now, I don't have to pack things that kill Latias alone, and nothing else. Salamence's getting tested next, eh? Just helps my team out with another threat.

P.S: I predict a drop in ScarfTar usage by a large percent.

 

[Peeeka Choo]

LOL @ Uberiffic . Yep, Dragonite must be really excited ;p

& wow, I did NOT know Smogon University determined which Pokemon belong to which tiers ;x

 

[Scimjara]

It's about fucking time.

I've said time and time again that Salamence is an Uber in the OU backyard, but since everyone's so used to losing a Pokemon every single match, they think nothing of it. Well, I'm tired of trying to "counter" that beast because quite frankly, it's next to impossible. Cresselia is probably the only Pokemon that can handle both MixMence and DD Mence reliable, but even then, it's probably gonna die like everything else.

Oh, and by the way, Scizor is not a Salamence counter. I cannot stress this enough. If you come in on a Fire Blast or Draco Meteor, your shit is fucked. If you try to use it for DD Mence, it'll probably take Scizor down with it.

That said, I'm glad we're finally doing something about this. I can't imagine OU without Mence, but that doesn't mean this shouldn't be done.

Yea it isn't just hate seeing those pathetic switch in's to scizor expecting to kill Salamence one they realise your bulky dragon dancer with roost and that they have no real chance against you.

Only possible thing that could stop Salamence is a donphan with spD to handle draco meteor's and being able to successfully 2hko with ice shard once sr is up.

 

[symphonyx64]

You guys move fast I must say.

I used to use Scarf Latias as a nice check to Salamence.

Now that Latias is banished, I support Salamence in being uber. Just like Garchomp, Salamence's unpredictability is too great and one may end up losing a Pokémon(s) just in finding out what variant of Salamence his/her opponent is running.

 

[PK Gaming]

Latias is finally gone and with good reason. I guess it's as good as any to bring on the mixape.

 

[Megan_Fox]

while i did think latias was uber, i feel salamence is even more uber for two reasons.
1. Access to a strong fire move. this makes it hard for steels to come in.
2. having a high base attk and spec attk stat. with two high attacking stats salamence has a alot of viable sets and some have different counters than others. ddmence and mixmence require completely different switchins which makes mence overall way to hard to handle

 

[Scimjara]

while i did think latias was uber, i feel salamence is even more uber for two reasons.
1. Access to a strong fire move. this makes it hard for steels to come in.
2. having a high base attk and spec attk stat. with two high attacking stats salamence has a alot of viable sets and some have different counters than others. ddmence and mixmence require completely different switchins which makes mence overall way to hard to handle

Salamence is just more versatile and hard to handle without sacrificing something or letting some poke take good amount of damage.

 

[BuddyBlueBomber]

Interesting. How does everyone feel here that Salamence will do in Ubers, while we're on the subject? Does he even pack enough power to prove a threat there?

I guess I'm kinda disappointed that Salamence will probably go to Ubers, since he's the crux of my Attract team.

 

[kd24]

Let's not go crazy in our assumptions. I assume Infernape will certainly become more useful with Latias gone but to expect Infernape on every team seems like a bit much.

Can't wait for the new suspect ladder though. If i can be a bit bold, I expect stall usage to increase significantly, as Latias and Salamence are perhaps the two largest threats to stall in this generation. Weavile and Mamoswine will take huge drops in usage as well in this ladder, although I also expect Steel-type usage to drop as well. Who knows; maybe now is the time for Infernape to shine.

 

[Rugaji]

I've actually been thinking to myself while Latias was in Suspect that Salamence should be Uber. It just can't be countered because it hits so hard on both sides of the offense. Also, so-called counters like Jirachi and Blissey still suffers because they get hit from boths sides. Jirachi doesn't even have the chance to Wish itself to heal if it comes in on Draco Meteor and Earthquake, it's just impossible. Scizor, like SJCrew stated, Scizor is not a counter to Salamence; it's just not. BP does about 58.9% - 69.2% on Salamence, he lives that off and Fire Blast just kills you. Even if SR was in play, Salamence can't get revenge killed at full health, Salamence is just an absolute monster. I can't wait to see him in Ubers, he is just overpowered with high Attack, SpAtk, and he's got a nice base 100 speed. He can hit steels where most dragons can't do that with Fire Blast.
Everything just dies to MixMence.

I can't wait to see what happens.

 

[Lee]

Interesting. How does everyone feel here that Salamence will do in Ubers, while we're on the subject? Does he even pack enough power to prove a threat there?

It doesn't matter; I know it has been said a hundred times but just to be clear - A Pokemons performance in Uber has no bearing whatsoever on his tier status. If he's too good for OU he goes to Uber, no ifs or buts.

Assuming you're aware of that and just asking out of interest, I reccomend you read the Salamence analysis as it goes into quite a bit of detail on Salamence's Uber merits.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/salamence

 

[_Flygon_]

I'm actually disagreeing with the majority here. Hey come on guys this isn't adv where everything has a hard counter. Dp's offensive side is pretty much all about revenge-killing and checking, not about countering.
I mean sure salamence hasn't got any true counters, but it got checks. Scarf-jirachi (both mixed and dder), latias (mixed), watertanks (both), scizor (both) and a few more handle salamence pretty easily if you predict correctly. If you mispredict of course, the situation's different, but thats also true for pokemon like tyranitar or even heatran.
There's just one thing that makes salamence a bit broken for me, and that's the fact that there are only very few pokemon who are able to counter both the dd and the mixed set. This, once again, also belongs to things like mix- and dd tyranitar, but salamence's far more dangerous just because of it's typing.
Still, imo mence's just the most dangerous offensive pokemon out there, but not uber-worthy.

 

[Shock Trooper]

Ok honestly, there is NO SUCH THING AS REAL HARD COUNTERS IN THE STANDARD OU METAGAME. IF YOU HAVE A HARD COUNTER THEN YOU ARE BAD.

Mence has quite a few checks, so it can be stopped. Rotom can burn the DD set, Swampert can force it out with Ice Beam, LO Jolt with HP Ice can beat it, heck Specs Jolt OHKOes with T-bolt with SR up if you want that, Starmie outspeeds, Scarftar outspeeds the mixed set, Jirachi can revenge kill or paralyze Mence, Scizor can revenge kill weakened Mence, Weavile can beat Mence... the list continues on.

Just because you can't hard counter Mence doesn't mean you can't beat it. Once people can get over that, they can see that Mence is OU.

 

[MegaKick]

It doesn't matter if it has checks. Every pokemon in the game could check it. Weavile checked garchomp with choice band ice punch. Hell weavile checks rayquaza. If your going by the argument of checks, lets unban rayquaza and kyogre and groudon and mewtwo and girantina and palkia and diagla etc...
read characteristics of an uber. Does mence have 1 good solid counter? nope. same sp.att as latias, higher att then garchomp, high owered moves, dragon dance, unpredictability, great typing, easy to provide support for, and can even beat it's own checks. All you people talking about checks need to shut the fuck up.

Mence has quite a few checks, so it can be stopped. Rotom can burn the DD set, doesn't survive an outrage with rocks up stupid Swampert can force it out with Ice Beam, easy ko with spikes LO Jolt with HP Ice can beat it, cant switch in at all, especielly on ddance heck Specs Jolt OHKOes with T-bolt with SR up if you want that, Starmie outspeeds, after a ddance is OHKO'ed Scarftar outspeeds the mixed set, but it can't switch in with spikes up, can't switch in on ddance Jirachi can revenge kill or paralyze Mence, ties with ddance, revenging is not the subject here, if your using the bulky ddancer, you can just switch to magnezone on the ice punch since no one should use dancing mence without magnezone Scizor can revenge kill weakened Mence, how does it revenge when it's only doing 50%, less to bulky ddance which is one of the best sets. Weavile can beat Mence... can't switch in, salamence can just switch as weavile is worn down by rocks the list continues on. no it doesn't

To remeber a famous quote by SDS, "when i mention garchomp, all entry hazards are up on the opponets side, he has every competitivae move possible, etc..." yes, thats going overboard (im assuming he was sarcastic?) but not by much. In the hands of an intelligent player, it is deadly. Also, even if he can be revenged, he still fits the support category. Easy. He breaks down stall easy. I remember in my old stall I had to carry a specielized cress to beat him. Then stall loses out on celebi, which means no perich song. Mence breaks down stall easy (and stall never carries weavile or scarfrachi) making him uber under the support characteristic.

 

[Bad Ass]

good luck switching that stuff in. revenge kill? you gotta make a sacrifice to have a revenge kill. aka salamence gets a kill a game.

 

[shlomer]

Legendary pokemon are never getting on my team, they're too cheap. But after using Salamence for a while I understand it has massive power as well. It's only cripple is twave, and if it comes in on an infernape lead it can DD on the scare and sweep the whole damn world. I'm not sure of how well it would fare in Ubers however, because of it's average speed (in Ubers) and mediocre defenses. It can be revenged killed fairly easily with a scarfed dragon or ice move, especially with SR on the field. Even in OU a max speed Gengar with HP Ice will tear it up (before a DD ofc). Specially Bulky's Dragon Claw will not OHKO a Gengar (if somehow it doesnt outspeed it!), and being locked into outrage leaves it open to a revenge kill from Scizor.

I may be just defending this out of selfish purposes alone, but I don't think putting it in Ubers will not do much good. Heatran, Celebi, and Jirachi should be looked at before this Salamence, and having all three on your team should be illegal.

 

[BuddyBlueBomber]

It doesn't matter; I know it has been said a hundred times but just to be clear - A Pokemons performance in Uber has no bearing whatsoever on his tier status. If he's too good for OU he goes to Uber, no ifs or buts.

Assuming you're aware of that and just asking out of interest, I reccomend you read the Salamence analysis as it goes into quite a bit of detail on Salamence's Uber merits.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/salamence

Yes, I did understand that its effectiveness in Ubers is not a factor, but that I was only curious. I hadn't realized that Salamence had an Uber analysis, though. I suppose I haven't checked in a while, and I forgot that some OU pokemon have a section on how they perform in Ubers.

 

[shlomer]

how come Latias has'nt been switch to Uber on the Latias page yet :S

 

[Diana]

Well good, Latias was giving me problems and I had a couple decent checks to it too.

Salamence, however, I'm not too sure about. My teams haven't ever been too overwhelmed by it, but I'm surely interested in seeing what a Salamence-less game is like and I wonder how much better, if at all, it'll be. Worth the test? Yes. Uber? Not sure.

I do really like this Council idea though, even if it takes away a lot of the decision-making from people not way at the top. It's a bit easier and faster, not to mention I'd probably trust 9 really good battlers to know what's best more than I do.