XY Ubers Sand Stall (#1693)

[Shocki]

Hey guy and welcome to my first RMT on Smogon!
At first I have to say, that I am german and my english isn't the best, i hope you can understand me.

@Tyranitarite
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

- Crunch
- Rock Tomb
- Rest
- Pursuit

Mega Tyranitar is so bulky, he is fantastic! M-Tttar is my main Ho-Oh Counter i can live any attack from it, only banded Earthquake does ~60%, and i can KO with Rock Tomb. Rest is my Recovery and with it i doesn't care about Burn from a Sacred Fire. Crunch is STAB, i dont use it very often but when I dont think my opponent switch it is nice to have it. Pursuit is mainly to trap Mega Gengar, the Problem is, that MGengar has a Chance to KO with Focus Blast.
Sand Stream is very usefull for my Team, because i have only one Pokemon, whitch get damage from it and stalling is very nice with SS.

@ Leftovers

Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Lava Plume
- Protect
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

Heatran is my first Xerneas Counter, I can live any attack from +2 Xern and phaze it away. Protect is for Scouting and stall SS + Toxic damage. Lava Plume as an attacking move with a nice 30% chance to burn.
Stealth Rocks are important on every team especially on Stall and i thought to use my Heatran to set up them. I could also use Ttar or Skarm, what do u think?

@ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 248 HP / Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Scald
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Recover

Almost every team needs a Kyogre switch in, I took Gastrodon, because it can tank every attack pretty well and then Toxic-Stall it. Sometimes Gastrodon is a little bit useless but i need it for Kyogre and to toxic other pokemon.

@ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

- Earthquake
- Protect
- Toxic
- Taunt

Gliscor has a very big physical bulk and is my first answer to EKA and other physical attackers, like M-Blaziken or M-Luce. With Gliscor and good prediction (switches) I can Toxic Stall them all. Taunt is to stop Blissey and Pokes who think they can switch in and set up on me.
Protect is again for Scouting (very nice against Kyogre e.g.) and Toxic stalling/Poison Heal recovery.

@ Shed Shell

Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Defog
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Toxic

Skarmory is my second physical Wall and my Defoger, because a lot of Hazards are very deadly for Stall. Whirlwind is against Set-Up Sweepers and for Stealth Rock Damage on my opponent. Roost is my recivery move and Toxic is to stall out things like EKA.
Shed Shell is only because of MGengar, because it sucks so much.
I think Skarm is the Pokemon I can maybe change to have something what is better against Mega Mewtwo Y, which is the biggest Thread to my team (with fighting move).

@ Toxic Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

- Extreme Speed
- Poison Jab
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Arceus-Poison, my second Xerneas counter, I switch alwas first to Arc Poison when my opponent has a Xerneas, I can tank every hit from it and 2HKO with Poison Jab. 236 Def are to tank Psyshock better and against Extreme Killer Arceus, because Arc Poison is my counter to EKA with Fire blast, I can burn him and then i can stall. Extreme Speed is against Deo-A and to finish other things.


Thats my Sand Stall Team, I have uge Porblems against Mega Mewtwo Y with an fighting attack, I cant do very much against it. Also I have sometimes problems with Deo-A (only if my opp predict extreme speed on arc poison or the arc poison switch in).
I hope you can help me with my Team, at the moment I am ranked on number 19 I think i can get up higher if there doesnt come a Mega Mewtwo Y :D
see ya, Socke

 

[haxiom]

Hey SockeFTW,

Solid team you have here. Yeah, MMY can definitely be a threat to this team. The other major threat I can see is Blaziken, as it can break through Gliscor with consecutive Flare Blitzes if rocks are up, then proceed to punch holes in this team (or clean it if the team is weakened a little bit). You struggle with Focus Blast Gengar quite a bit, since it can kill Tyranitar in the pursuit attempt, then do its shadow tag shenanigans to break apart the team. Due to a lack of a fairy, Zekrom with Draco Meteor can nail Gliscor, which makes it a very potent threat. Darkrai will always cripple one mon which is annoying. I will say, it has a very nice matchup versus stall which is really cool and I really like it, due to having Gliscor+Poisonceus+Heatran.

So, one thing I might suggest is Chople Berry Tyranitar with Pursuit / Payback / x / x which will give you a better chance to beat Focus Blast Gengar and MMY. It won't be perfect though. Skarmory can be easily replaced, the replacement mon just needs to check Ekiller+Kanga to a certain extent, which isn't that hard. Maybe something like defensive Yveltal or defensive Xerneas could work here. As a result, you would move Defog to Poisonceus over Extreme Speed. Tbh Yveltal is a much stronger check to Ekiller, Kangaskhan, and Mewtwo even, but Xerneas does provide some neat utilities too so there's that to consider, while also helping vs Blaziken.

Sets

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Atk
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Payback

Yveltal @ Rocky Helmet / Dread Plate
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Atk
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Taunt
- Sucker Punch
- Roost

Xerneas @ Leftovers
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy / Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

OPTIMIZATION

Tyranitar- above set

Heatran- assuming SR on Ttar, Toxic > SR

Gastrodon- Mirror coat > EP, helps vs Gengar and Palkia as well as other special attackers

Gliscor- I'd just run max max for physical bulk

Skarmory- current set is OK, attack over Toxic so you aren't taunt bait is optional, however I would replace this mon

Poisonceus- I think standard is 56 speed. Defog > Espeed

Good luck!

 

[Edgar]

Hello SockeFTW, really nice and creative team you got, I've always been a big fan of Sand Stall myself, I've managed to make a few variants that work pretty well in the current XY Ubers metagame. So here we go, although the team is creative and stuff I feel like it has some really big problems and they can't be fixed by changing little about the team so yeah. Sorry if you feel like I changed too much but I feel like a change can be achieved while still keeping some essence of the main idea, a Sand Stall team.

The first thing I'd like to do is to second Haxiom's original change of Chople Berry Tyranitar over Mega Tyranitar so you can trap Focus Blast Mewtwo and Mega Gengar. However, I'd like to slash Payback for Ice Beam since your team suffers from a Stallbreaker Gliscor weakness, you don't have much that can beat and that's why I feel like it would be good to lure it with Tyranitar. This change also opens the spot for a new Mega Evolution on the team, which is what I am going to move to then.

Tyranitar Set

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Atk
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Payback / Ice Beam

For the next change, with a Mega slot availiable. I highly suggest you to use Sp.Def Mega Scizor over Arceus-Poison. Although you're using Arceus as your Xerneas counter, which is totally fine, I think Scizor can achieve more than that, especially on your team, where priority could be appreciated to kill whittled Mewtwo/ (Mega) Gengar and other stuff. Not only that, Scizor can also act as pseudo Extremekiller check since it has access to Superpower which with the help of the next pokemon I'm about to suggest, it can check Extremekiller Arceus, Mega Kanghaskan and Xerneas at the same time. As for EVs, 248 HP / 32 Atk / 228 SDef with an Adamant nature allows you to take 1 +2 Focus Blast from Modest Xerneas and 2HKO back with Bullet Punch (You switch Scizor in the turn they Geomancy and proceed to check them). As for moves, Superpower helps you check Mega Kanghaskan and Extremekiller Arceus. Roost is a needed recovery move in case you need to do such thing. As for last move, I leave it up to you I personally think you should use Defog on this so you can keep hazards away but U-turn or Pursuit, even Knock Off are good options. Now I'll move to the last big change, which is an Arceus forme.

Scizor set

Scizor (F) @ Scizorite
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Atk / 228 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Roost
- Defog / U-turn / Knock Off

Watch out from a Fire-type move like Overheat or Fire Blast coming from Arceus.

The last change I suggest is using Arceus-Ghost over Skarmory. With Arceus' ability to use Will-o-Wisp and Scizor in the back, checking Extremekiller Arceus and Mega Kanghaskan becomes very easy for this team. That's not the only reason why I highly suggest Arceus-Ghost though, the other reason why I chose this Arceus it's because it can check all Mewtwo variants, which this team really needs, rather than relying on a pretty shaky way like Chople Berry Tyranitar. I suggest a Calm Mind Will-o-Wisp if you are running Defog on Scizor for checking the 2 pokemon I mentioned above as well as having some Offensive presence. This set runs a Defensive EV spread which is, EVs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 Spe this allows you 2 Psystrikes from Mewtwo while being able to do massive damage with Ghost-type Judgment. As for moves, Judgment is a mandatory, yet strong STAB move. Will-o-Wisp helps you check physical threats like the ones I mentioned above. Recover is a mandatory recovery move that Arceus needs. The last move, it's again up to you, if you use Defog on Scizor, I highly suggest you to use Calm Mind to keep some offensive pressure on your side, even though it's a stall team, you sometimes need that. But if not, run Defog on this.

Arceus set

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Calm Mind / Defog

A few nitpicks here and there, run Clear Smog over Earth Power on Gastrodon, so you have an easier time checking opposing Calm Mind Arceus and Xerneas that try to set up on it. Also run Taunt over Protect on Heatran and Substitute over Protect on Gliscor, this will help you get past pokemon like Blissey in a faster way and not having to rely entirely on Scizor to kill it, Gliscor is also a really annoying under a sub, anyone that has faced it can tell you lol. Also, I think there's a more effective Gliscor set than the one you're using, 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 Spe, allows you to outspeed neutral nature based 90 speed pokemon like Dialga and Ho-Oh, which your team can appreciate. I really don't think a cleric is needed since you have Gliscor and Heatran, which are excellent status absorbers.

Nice team, good luck with changes :]

 

[Shocki]

Thank you 2 for your suggestions, especially M Sciz and Xerneas sounds very nice, the problem I have when I play chople berry ttar, I cant check banded ho-oh with it.
Ok i will test 2 things, first only Xerneas (roar > aroma) > Skarm and second the whole rate from edgar. But i think Protect is better as Sub on Glis, because with protect I can play very nice against things like choiced Kyogres and also i can stall better, maybe i will try Taunt > Protect on heatran but I think with Sciz I dont have so uge problems with blissey.
I tell you how it work after testing :]

 

[haxiom]

Thank you 2 for your suggestions, especially M Sciz and Xerneas sounds very nice, the problem I have when I play chople berry ttar, I cant check banded ho-oh with it.
Ok i will test 2 things, first only Xerneas (roar > aroma) > Skarm and second the whole rate from edgar. But i think Protect is better as Sub on Glis, because with protect I can play very nice against things like choiced Kyogres and also i can stall better, maybe i will try Taunt > Protect on heatran but I think with Sciz I dont have so uge problems with blissey.
I tell you how it work after testing :]

I agree with a lot of what Edgar said, I missed a few things in optimization that he hit. I actually thought about all the changes he made (Ghostceus and Scizor) but decided against it since it changed a lot of the original members that were pretty important and unique (especially Poisonceus). You end up weak to Focus Blast+HP Fire Xern but it's pretty specific and Fblast needs to hit. Defog Scizor is pretty weak as a defogger imo, but CM Ghostceus is pretty nice since it gives you a win condition. On Ghostceus, I do prefer creeping to Adamant Ekiller but that is optional. The two changes (taunt+sub on Heatran and Gliscor) are actually kinda important so that you can break down opposing stall. The huge speed creep on Gliscor is interesting, although I'm not sure how much I like it since you are utterly dependent on Gliscor to check Zekrom and without the defensive investment, Outrage has a solid chance to 2HKO (96.9% with rocks up factoring in poison heal). This means that it doesn't even need to run DM to break through it's main check, which is annoying. It also makes you a lot weaker to EQ Ho-Oh.

On a side note, I can tell you right now that Edgar's rate should be more effective- I just felt like keeping similar stuff, go ahead though and try Xerneas if you want.

 

[aim]

I agree with a lot of what Edgar said, I missed a few things in optimization that he hit. I actually thought about all the changes he made (Ghostceus and Scizor) but decided against it since it changed a lot of the original members that were pretty important and unique (especially Poisonceus). You end up weak to Focus Blast+HP Fire Xern but it's pretty specific and Fblast needs to hit. Defog Scizor is pretty weak as a defogger imo, but CM Ghostceus is pretty nice since it gives you a win condition. On Ghostceus, I do prefer creeping to Adamant Ekiller but that is optional. The two changes (taunt+sub on Heatran and Gliscor) are actually kinda important so that you can break down opposing stall. The huge speed creep on Gliscor is interesting, although I'm not sure how much I like it since you are utterly dependent on Gliscor to check Zekrom and without the defensive investment, Outrage has a solid chance to 2HKO (96.9% with rocks up factoring in poison heal). This means that it doesn't even need to run DM to break through it's main check, which is annoying. It also makes you a lot weaker to EQ Ho-Oh.

On a side note, I can tell you right now that Edgar's rate should be more effective- I just felt like keeping similar stuff, go ahead though and try Xerneas if you want.

I too agree with Edgar but just to point something out, HP Fire + Focus Blast is not a thing on Xerneas. They run one or the other. One of the offensive moves is always Thunder for Ho-oh Kyogre and Lugia

 

[haxiom]

I too agree with Edgar but just to point something out, HP Fire + Focus Blast is not a thing on Xerneas. They run one or the other. One of the offensive moves is always Thunder for Ho-oh Kyogre and Lugia

Ugh yeah you are completely right, I guess I just saw it on the Geomancy Xerneas coverage thread, but I suppose there is a difference between a thing being viable and a thing being existent.