1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Sandstorm Gen V

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Vader_the_White, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2010
    Messages:
    311
    Since I read the Sandstorm Gen IV article here on Smogon in November, I've been trying to build a Sandstorm team. Here is my second real attempt at a Sandstorm team for Pokemon Black and White.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    [​IMG]
    Godzilla (Tyranitar) (M) @ Leftovers

    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SDef
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Crunch
    - Ice Beam


    Tyranitar is my lead. He sets up Sandstorm and Stealth Rock. Tar has a mixed set, which allows me to kill a lot of threats, including Skarmory and Nattorei. He can also take a good bit of damage, with only powerful physical attackers being able to take him down.


    Tyranitar's main weaknesses are powerful physical attackers that are faster than him. His speed is lowered due to it's nature, but I can't think of a better nature for a Mixed Tyranitar. Also, he is one of the two Pokemon who can be Poisoned.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    [​IMG]
    Mr. Mole (Excadrill) (M) @ Balloon
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    - Rock Slide
    - X-Scissor


    Excadrill is my main sweeper and my personal favorite Pokemon on this team and in B/W. When Sand Rush is activated, it goes to Ludicrous Speed. It's high speed combined with it's great Attack stat enhanced further with Swords Dance, it can tear through Pokemon like a hot knife through butter.


    Originally, I gave Excadrill a Adamant nature, but I changed it to Jolly. It works better, since I often outspeed other Drills, since most are Adamant nature. It really gives me the edge.


    When Excadrill's Balloon is still intact, I switch into Ground moves.

    The only problem with Excadrill is its defenses and movepool. There aren't many good moves that it can get and it can be knocked out quickly if it doesn't kill the opponent quickly. This is the only Pokemon on my team I completely came up with on my own, so it may not be the best movelist/item/EV spread possible. Any alternative is welcome.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    [​IMG]
    Nattorei (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers

    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd), 0 Speed IV
    - Gyro Ball
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Spikes


    I'm a “hit fast and hit hard” kind of person. That's how I play. So, normally, I don't like slow Pokemon. But I rather like Nattorei. With great resistances, good defensive stats, and a great ability, Nattorei is terrific!

    Nattorei is my team's main wall. Normally, I set up layers of Spikes, use Leech Seed to suck life away from opposing Pokemon and hit hard with Power Whip and Gyro Ball (which makes up for Nattorei's horrendous speed). Iron Barbs can get revenge for any contact move. Leftovers is to make up for any damage Nattorei might receive. Nat also switches into a predicted Thunder Wave, since it isn't the worse Pokemon to be Paralyzed. (It gets to 10 speed when that happens)

    Nattorei does have some major weaknesses. Skarmory using Spikes and Roar can just tear poor Nattorei to pieces, since neither of the attacking moves of Nattorei can go much to Skarmory and if it is switched into Spikes can hurt is severely.

    Another of Nattorei's problems is Fire. Nattorei is very weak against a well aimed Fire Blast, usually knocking it out in one hit.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    [​IMG]
    Scizorette (Scizor) (F) @ Life Orb

    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - X-Scissor
    - Bullet Punch
    - Roost


    Scizor is the other great sweeper of my team. I picked Scizor since it can survive beyond 10 Life Orb-fueled attacking moves due to Roost.

    Swords Dance and the two STAB moves can do a nice bit of damage. Technician, of course, increases Bullet Punch's base power and helps to make it very powerful. Combined with a focus on speed, it can hit quickly and rather hard.

    Like Nattorei, Scizor's major problem is Skarmory and Fire moves. It can do more damage, but not nearly enough to handle Skarmory. Fire moves just kill it. Another problem is Scizor's variety. Not much is weak to X-Scissor and Bullet Punch.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    [​IMG]
    Albert (Jellicent) (M) @ Leftovers

    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Shadow Ball
    - Energy Ball


    Jellicent is my spinblocker and bulky Water. It take a lot of damage (even some super effective) and can dish it out. It even killed a Mewtwo once! It is often used to switch into an Water, Ice, Fire, or Fighting move with great effect. Recover is used since Leftovers is to counter sandstorm damage, as Jellicent is the only Pokemon on my team that is no immune to sandstorm.


    Albert is rather weak in the Physical Def department. Earthquake often is a OHKO. Also, it's speed isn't that good (due to the particular EV spread. It could be a much faster Pokemon with a different EV spread). It can die before dealing damage. Also, Jellicent is one of the two Pokemon who can be Poisoned.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    [​IMG]
    Psybear (Renuniclus) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast


    Renuniclus is a beast on this team, all due to its ability Magic Guard. Immunity to entry hazards, Poison, Burn damage (the attack lower effect is still in place, but doesn't matter due to the fact that Renuniclus knows no Physical moves), nor weather damage. Also, Life Orb still has a boost, but not HP cost. It is very, very awesome.


    Renuniclus sets up one or two Calm Minds, then starts hiting hard with Psychic or Focus Blast, all depending on the opposing Pokemon. Recover is to heal a little faster than with Leftovers.


    Renuniclus is weak to fast Dark types (which normally aren't a problem is Scizor or Excadrill is still active). Also, a good strong move can still hurt.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    One problem as a whole is opposing Weather teams. If they kill Tyranitar, I'm doomed. My goal is to try to keep Tar and Excadrill out of the fray until I can ensure their safety. Another weakness is rival Excadrill. If they are luckier than me, I will be decimated by Excadrill.

    I will take almost any suggestions, except for Legendaries (it is hard to catch one with a good nature on handhelds for me and this is meant to be built on my DS) and no Choice items, since I don't like being locked into a single attack.

    I entered this into several minor tournaments, including two Uber tournaments (even though this is an OU team). In both Uber tournaments, I placed second. So I am satisfied with my team as it is, but it is not perfect...

    Thank you for spending time reading this and trying to help me become a better player and improving my team. I appreciate it.
  2. masterful

    masterful

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,897
    Uhh, this team has no resists and a bunch of weaks to Ground and Fire. That's a problem. At the least take out Nat and replace it with Balloon Heatran or something
  3. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2010
    Messages:
    311
    The problem is that Heatran is a legendary and I currently cannot get any. It needs to be breedable to simplify the team building process. Any other suggestions?
  4. AB2

    AB2 is an absolute ape
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    414
    Hey this seems like a pretty cool and pretty nice team for the B/W metagame as it stands. Dorryuzu, is currently one of my favorite pokemon to abuse as it is really hard to take down without priority or a pokemon who removes sandstorm. First on this team, I notice that you should really be running Balloon over Life Orb on Dorryuzu. This not only nets Dorryuzu a handy immunity to ground as well as spikes, but it also helps it in checking forms of Tyranitar, which can very valuable for any team. I would also like to note that you should really be running a moveset of Swords Dance | Earthquake | Rock Slide | Rapid Spin or X-Scissor on Dorryuzu. Shadow Claw is a bit pointless as the pokemon that can be hit with Shadow Claw will usually just be taken out with a boosted attack from either Earthquake or Rock Slide. Secondly, I notice that you should really change that EV spread around on your Nattorei. I really believe that you should convert to Special Defensive Nattorei. This will allow you not only to sponge hits from random Draco Meteors even easier, but it will allow Nattorei an easier time versus Mixed Tyranitar, which seems to be quite a popular option right now. The spread that is quite efficient would be 252 HP | 248 SpD | 8 Def with a 0 Spe IV and a Sassy Nature. The 0 Spe IV allows you to make Gyro Ball as powerful as possible as Nattorei won't be able to outspeed anything anyways.

    Now, I would like to point out a detrimental weakness in this team, your lack of a fighting resist. Generation 5 has brought so many new fighters to the table that you must have at least 1 or maybe 2 fighting resists to weather the attacks of powerful pokemon such as Terakion and Roobushin. I would really recommend that you run a different water resist over your empoleon. In my opinion, a Life Orb Latias would work nicely over your Empoleon. Not only does Latias provide a fantastic check to pokemon like Terakion and Blazikien, but it also has the ability to lure in scizor and destroy other priority users, which can cause trouble for Dorryuzu.

    Latias @ Life Orb
    Timid 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe Levitate
    Dragon Pulse | Grass Knot | Hidden Power [Fire] | Recover

    Although Latias provides you with a much needed fighting resist on this team, I really feel that you could use a pokemon that can specialize in countering Roobushin especially. I think that a CM Rankurusu would fit perfectly over your Forretress. Even though Forretress provides you with useful resistances and good support in that of spikes, it also is somewhat redundant with Nattorei. This is why it seems to be more dead weight than anything. CM Rankurusu gives you a great counter to Roobushin which you need quite a bit.

    Rankurusu @ Life Orb
    Relaxed 252 HP | 252 Def | 4 SpA Magic Guard
    Calm Mind | Recover | Psychic | Focus Blast

    Alright, those are all of the suggestions that I have to make for now. Good Luck!
  5. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,621
    Also, your team has no fighting resists and 3 2x fighting weaknesses.

    In a metagame where Roopushin and Terakion exist.

    You might want to consider replacing Empoleon with Burunkeru, who can spinblock, has a fighting immunity, and actually DOES resist Fire.

    If that is annoying, consider replacing Doryuuzu with a Landlos. ANYTHING faster with Earthquake or bulky enough to take one hit and Earthquake kills Dory-and given alternate weather teams that can at least check Doryuuzu are common, that's easier done than said. (Doryuuzu likes Rock Slide better anyway.) Landlos may not be QUITE as strong as Doryuuzu, but it's immune to Ground, better synthesizes with your weaknesses, cannot be checked by a standard Roopushin Mach Punch, and it's STILL pretty absurdly strong thanks to Sand Strength. It's also much harder to predict than Doryuuzu.


    Finally, you don't need Forry AND Nattorei. There are better ways in Gen V to deal with heavy Stall tactics than spinning-like Ranculus, who is immune to Sand damage, hazard damage, and leech seed damage thanks to Magic Guard, and who presents a general conundrum for stall.

    And lastly, bulky waters tend to beat that Empoleon-RNG'd ones with Hidden Power Electric in particular make life miserable for Empoleon.

    EDIT: Since you said no legends...start hunting for a shiny so you can RNG abuse for a good Landlos or something. Additionally, Synchronize Pokemon (like Munna) cause encountered Pokemon to have a 50% chance of also being the same nature. Breed a Jolly Munna w/ Synchronize and have it lead versus Landlos.
  6. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,529
    This team has very bad type synergy. Four fire weaknesses, three of them being 4x, and no resistances? That's just poor planning dude. Forretress and possibly Scizor need to go. It's a shame you don't want to use legendaries because a Lati@s, Suicune, Terakion, Landlos or Heatran would help you out immensely. You might need to bite the bullet on this one. Wish Vaporeon actually resists Fire as well as absorbs Water for and has pretty good special attack, you could start there.
  7. Plue00

    Plue00

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    I feel like a Swords Dance boosted Infernape could knock out your team after your Hippowdon is gone... Or Blaziken.
  8. Juice!

    Juice!

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    243
    Agility Empoleon needs a team built around it, it can't just be tacked onto any random team. Not to mention with Roobushin and TechniLoom running around, it just gets owned by a Mach Punch after subbing down to it's berry. Which is unfortunate, because Empoleon is really cool. However, he doesn't make the cut, so I think you should drop him for Randorosu. This thing is an absolute monster in the sand. I'll give you the set I use on my Sandstorm team, but feel free to change stuff up to better suit your taste, this is just a starting point.
    Randorosu @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sand Power
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -U-turn
    -Brick Break
    I don't need to explain Earthquake and Stone Edge, U-turn is for scouting and Brick Break for stuff like Nattorei and Balloon Doryuuzu. Like I said though, feel free to change up the last 2 moves (although I really would keep U-turn at least) if you find you like something else better.

    Speaking of Balloons, put one on your Dory instead of Life Orb, and drop Shadow Claw for Rock Slide.

    And this is a Sandstorm team.... and yet... no Garchomp. You don't need Forretress, Nattorei already sets up your Spikes. ScarfChomp makes an excellent revenge killer since your Scizor is more of a set-up sweeper than a revenge killer.
    Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sand Veil
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    -Earthquake
    -Outrage
    -Dragon Claw
    -Aqua Tail/Stone Edge/Fire Fang
    Earthquake and Outrage are his strongest STAB moves. However, Dragon Claw is there because it is advisable to avoid spamming Outrage in the early game. You may think 2 dragon moves is redundant, but it's not, you'll be using them at very different times. In the last slot, I personally run Aqua Tail simply to catch stuff like Balloon Doryuuzu and Balloon Heatran off-guard, but it also nails a super effective hit on stuff like Randorosu and Hippowdon should the need arise. However, using Fire Fang to nail Nattorei and Skarmory, or Stone Edge for the excellent coverage proved by ground/rock are both fine options as well.

    Good luck with the team, long live Sandstorm! =)

    PS. If you have Pokémon Online and would ever like to playtest against my Sandstorm team (or any other team for that matter) feel free to shoot me a message. I'll never say no to helping someone playtest. =)
  9. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2010
    Messages:
    311
    I forgot Garchomp since I was still thinking Gen IV! Still, I hate Choice items. I don't like being locked into one move. I will try it, however. It might make me change my mind.

    Since Landlos is a BW Legendary and I'm going to get both versions, I will use it. The main reason I said no Legends is that it is hard for me to get multiples currently, especially Gen IV legends, since Pt I will not reset (first mainseries game) and SS I wont (my main game battling wise) and Diamond doesn't work half the time (prior own lost the case and it is a tad damaged. Luckily, I was still able to get 2 Arceus just prior to it's failure). Natures are just reason two.

    Calm Mind Ranculus seems like a good choice, but I don't know exactly what to do EV-wise, movelist-wise, or item-wise.

    I did not know about Balloon prior to this post. I will be placing it on Doryuzu. Quick question: When Balloon pops, is it like Focus Band, where I just can't use it for the rest of the battle, or is it like Berries, where I can't use it ever again? (Since I would love this team to work while exploring Unova post-league)

    (I will edit my team's text after trying the edits on Online)
  10. Sheaz

    Sheaz

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    76
    Since the fire weaknesses have been covered, I'll expand on some new things.

    I would run Return over X-Scissor. Return allows you to deal a solid chunk of damage to Gliscor, who is all over the place due to Dory. As for your balloon question, it pops and is never usable again while in battle. The purpose of balloon is to provide easier switch-ins while making sure that some punk doesn't try to EQ while you're setting up.

    I don't know why you're asking about Ranculus since AB2 provided you all of that info.
  11. Heist

    Heist
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,325
    Hi, when I look at the OP, you have 3 Pokemon who are 4x weak to fire, and on top of this you have no resist. A simple Heatran or Speed Boost Blaziken will absolutely annihilate this team and there is almost nothing you can do back. It is imperative to this team's survival that you fix up these weaknesses.

    My first suggestion would be to replace Hippowdon with Tyranitar. Tyranitar can also set up Sandstorm. It also has the ability to lure out and beat many of Doryuuzu's counters with Fire Blast and Ice Beam. By replacing Hippowdon, you lose an answer to Terrakion and opposing Tyranitar. Tyranitar is mostly covered by your team, but Terrakion is something we will have to address later.

    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Quiet | Sandstream
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SpDef
    Stealth Rock / Fire Blast / Pursuit or Crunch / Ice Beam

    Tyranitar also becomes fire-resist number 1.

    I'd like to second Balloon and Rock Slide on Doryuuzu as Earthquake + Rock Slide give near-perfect coverage and Rock Slide can hit flyers that are immune to Earthquake super-effectively.

    I think Forretress and Nattorei are redundant on this team and you still have a huge fire problem. A defensive Rotom-W would slot nicely over Forretress. This Rotom-W will not only resist fire-type attacks but also prevent you from being swept by offensive Swords Dance Scizor, who is another pretty large issue for your team. It also becomes a great Heatran counter and gives you a secondary switch-in to opposing bulky-waters should Nattorei be weakened. Not only this, but due to Rotom-W's fantastic typing it can also check Doryuuzu and get plenty of opportunities to come in and threaten with its quite good combination of moves in Hydro Pump / Hidden Power [Fire] / Thunderbolt. Here is the set:

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Modest | Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpAtk / 96 Spe
    Hydro Pump / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Fire] / Pain Split

    Now, you are still going to have a few problems with Blaziken, and another couple of Pokemon that stand out are opposing Rotom-W and Garchomp. You may say Nattorei takes the former on perfectly fine but over 80% of them will run Hidden Power [Fire]. This is not an exact figure, it is just an approximation from all the Rotom-W I have played. I think the perfect replacement for Empoleon is Life Orb Latios, who abuses those Spikes incredibly well and also takes on the aforementioned threats, although it is very risky to actually switch into Garchomp. Latios also adds another fire-resist to cancel out the weaknesses Scizor and Nattorei cause...

    Latios @ Life Orb
    Timid | Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
    Draco Meteor / Hidden Power [Fire] / Surf / Recover

    I know I have suggested a lot of changes, but really your team needed a bit of fixing up. I hope this rate helps, good luck!
  12. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2010
    Messages:
    311
    Ok, I removed Hippowdon, Empoleon, and Forretress for Tyranitar, Burungel, and Ranculus. I'm testing it, and it seems to work. I will update my inital post after further testing and after I write the descriptions for the new entries. Keep on suggesting anything you think is better.
  13. Phear

    Phear

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    18
    Scizorette (Scizor) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - BUG BITE
    - Bullet Punch
    - Roost/superpower

    bug bite is better in all situations (except if mummied) as it gets the technian boost, and superpower lets it deal with Natt

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)