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Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by comatthew6, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    Messages:
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    (team peaked #1 on the LC leaderboard 9/28/10)
    HAL9000: 1. COMATTHEW6 (1,569.20)

    Hitting #1 on any leaderboard is a very difficult thing to do, and I recall spending numerous hours tweaking this team just to perfect it. No, this is not team Anti-Nails (I'll save that one for a rainy day - just kidding). This team is an immunity team, sporting immunities to eight of the seventeen types, and half my team has an important immunity to Ground. Without further ado,

    Team Building Process

    I know, I know, pick my lead last. I know I wanted a quick lead with high offensive capabilities, so there really was really only one Pokémon for the job: Meowth.

    [​IMG]

    Now, to form a core. I know the golden rule - do not pick six random Pokémon, pick Pokémon with good synergy that can work well together (or something along those lines). I looked at a lot of Pokémon, and I knew that I needed Pokémon that are immune to ground, one of the most common attacking types in the game. Also, this team needed Stealth Rock to rack up damage while forcing switches, so Bronzor seemed like a natural choice.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Then I was at an impass. I wanted a Pokémon that could a) inflict senseless amounts of damage b) force switches to increase passive damage, and c) piss off my opponents. Substitute + Hypnosis Gastly was a perfect fit, and as a bonus, is immune to three types.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    With half of my team finished, I wanted a sweeper. Not just any sweeper, one that could do crazy amounts of damage in as little time possible. I clicked the Little Cup Threat List article, and one mon caught my eye - Carvanha. It could do incredible amounts of damage with a Life Orb, and its above-average speed was a turn-on, too. It has an immunity to Psychic.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Almost done here. With two slots left, I needed a scout - someone who could effectively get into the battle and use U-turn whenever it wants to. Gligar was, like, the number one Pokémon in the metagame at the time, so I was like, "Wynaut?"

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Finally, I knew the prevalence of weather-based teams in this metagame, with Rain Dance being the most prominent one (I used to use an RD team, but retired it after peaking 3rd in the metagame towards the end of June). I needed a Pokémon that can effectively stop weather, resist water (something the rest of the team lacks - since when can carvanha take hits?), and do an effective amount of damage with each strike. Snover fits the bill nicely, though it does not give me any immunities. Oh well.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Then, I hit ~1470 CRE before realizing that my team couldn't defend against Fire, more specifically, Duskull's Will-o-Wisp. I then instantly decided that Houndour would be a better fit for this team, and it is. It forms great synergy with Snover and Bronzor, and gave me an extra immunity in Fire.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    An in-depth look:

    [​IMG]

    Adam West: the Meowth
    @ Life Orb. 236 Atk, 216 Spe, 36 SpD. Jolly Nature. Technician (why would I use Pickup?)
    ~ Fake Out
    ~ Feint
    ~ U-turn
    ~ Bite

    Your reaction to this moveset: "Feint? Feint?? He must be kidding, right?" The truth is, I'm not. A lot of leads run Protect (and commonly use the move on turn one, whether or not they follow the rule of 2ghosts1cup), and I thoroughly enjoy catching opposing leads off-guard. This may seem very situational, but it also helps if I'm up against substitute-stallers such as (in the snowstorm) Spheal and Shroomish. U-turn is for scouting purposes and Bite is for coverage against Ghost-types, most notably Gastly. Life Orb is absolutely necessary for extra power on all my moves, which is very important to me. I don't like Focus Sash because it gets broken by entry hazards and weather recoil, both of which are popular in Little cup.

    [​IMG]

    Alpha Dog: the Houndour
    @ Life Orb. 196 Atk, 76 Spe, 196 SpA, 36 SpD. Lonely Nature. Flash Fire.
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Flamethrower
    ~ Crunch
    ~ Sucker Punch

    Houndour is the only thing on my team that prevents Duskull from spamming Will-o-Wisp. It easily nets itself a 1.5 times bonus to flamethrower on the switch-in, and can then sub up as duskull switches. Now, my opponent is almost forced to sacrifice something just to break Houndour's substitute. Flamethrower is my preferred choice over Fire Blast because Flash Fire gives Flamethrower a boost that will OHKO Pokémon like Gligar who tend to switch in to Houndour, and nothing is worse than to see Fire Blast miss against it.

    [​IMG]

    C6H6 Ring: the Bronzor
    @ Oran Berry. 220 HP, 8Atk, 152 Def, 4SpA, 68SpD, 12Spe. Relaxed Nature. Levitate.
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Psychic
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ HP Ice

    A parody of Psykout's "Benzene Ring" (guess what the name of C6H6 is. No, I'll wait). Bronzor gives me another all-important Ground-type immunity (and poison as well) and sets up Stealth Rock on the opponent's side of the field. With all the switches this team can force, my opponents will be losing health pretty quickly. I originally had Flash Cannon over Psychic but then realized that Psychic does more damage to Gastly, and Earthquake still nails (ha, Nails) Croagunk on the switch. Heatproof is stupid, and since Houndour takes Fire-type attacks, Levitate was the better ability.

    [​IMG]

    Desert Fox: the Gligar
    @ Choice Scarf. 236Atk, 236 Spe. Adamant Nature. Sand Veil.
    ~ Aerial Ace
    ~ Aqua Tail
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ U-turn

    Gligar isn't a fox, but if I recall correctly, they never nicknamed any generals after a scorpion. Gligar is the primary scout on my team, and can also finish off a weakened team. U-turn is the reason why it's my scout, and this often forces switches (my opponent brings in Bronzor to take an Earthquake, but U-turn allows me to bring in Gastly or Houndour). Aqua Tail hits other Gligar hard, which is why it got the nod over Night Slash. Hyper cutter is kind of dumb because the two Pokémon with Intimidate (please correct me here) are Growlithe and Ekans, both of which are weak to Earthquake. Aerial Ace allows me to hit Grass-types such as Shroomish and Snover, and Earthquake is for STAB.

    [​IMG]

    Xmas Tree: the Snover
    @ Choice Scarf. 116HP, 184SpA, 200 Spe. Timid Nature. Snow Warning.
    ~ Blizzard
    ~ Energy Ball
    ~ HP Fire
    ~ Water Pulse

    Snover is the weather-stopper on this team. Its ability ends Sunny Day and Rain Dance, at Snover can take any Waterfall, Surf, Hydro Pump, or Solarbeam that comes its way. Blizzard absolutely wrecks anything that doesn't resist it, and Energy Ball is secondary STAB. I listened to the standard moveset on this one. Snover forms great synergy with Houndour, but Houndour's time on the field is limited with LO recoil and hail recoil (stealth rock is also a female dog, but Meowth prevents it in most cases. Exceptions: fake-out resisting leads). Snover can also clean up, finishing what Houndour and Gastly started. It should also be noted that Snover, unfortunately, does not sport any immunities.

    [​IMG]

    Spectre: the Gastly
    @ Leftovers. 116 HP, 36 Def, 116SpA, 216Spe. Timid Nature. Levitate.
    ~ Hypnosis
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Shadow Ball
    ~ Sludge Bomb

    And the MVP goes to…Gastly! Gastly can be a pain in the rear to my opponent unless he/she can successfully predict around it. Hypnosis puts something to sleep 60% of the time, which helps because I don't like my opponents attacking back (but then again, who does?). Substitute works well with Hypnosis, and leftovers allows me to recover off the damage substitute makes me lose. Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball wreck anything that does not resist it. Being immune to three common attacking types, Gastly usually has next to no problem switching in to enemy attacks. This guy can beat an entire team single-handedly if it gets lucky with consecutive hypnoses connecting (I believe it took out four, maybe five Pokémon in a single match against someone. I think it might've been a relatively old match vs. Dracoyoshi8….).

    Please rate this team to the best of your ability. That is all I ask for.

    P.S. thanks arkeis, for 4 sweet pics.
  2. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    This... is a THREAT DOWN
    Black = Not a threat.
    green = moderate threat
    red = Big Threat. Oh noez.


    ABRA Non-choice versions die to Snover and Meowth. If it's choice scarf, Bronzor is my switch-in. If I know it's locked into psychic, Houndour gets a free substitute. Yay!

    AIPOM Usually seen as a lead. I use fake out, pray for a speed tie win, then either a) if I won, go to gligar, or b) if I lost, go to gligar (because it's going to use brick break or u-turn).

    ARON Scarf gligar can switch into any version with ease.

    BRONZOR I don't even know why it's on this list, but Houndour KO's with flamethrower, and gastly can sleep it. Unfortunately, they have to watch for Earthquake and Psychic, respectively.

    BUIZEL Snover outspeeds it, can take a waterfall, and OHKO with Energy Ball. If Snover is down when the rain is up, it's gg for me.

    CARVAHNA Actually, not as much of a threat as I expected. Snover beats it and meowth outspeeds it.

    CHIMCHAR Another lead. My Fake out always goes first, then I can use u-turn or bite to finish it.

    CHINCHOU Choice Scarf Gligar outspeeds it; so does Snover. Bronzor can take a Hydro Pump or Surf from an Agilichou and hit back with Earthquake. Meowth and Houndour can hit it with STAB priority.

    CROAGUNK Not much of a problem. Bronzor easily takes it down, and so does Gligar.

    DIGLETT Usually a lead. I use Fake Out and then U-turn. Snover is my switch-in, or if it's down (which is unlikely), I go to Gligar or Bronzor.

    DRATINI DDtini is manhandled by a combination of Gligar then Bronzor. Snover speed ties with it and can take an Extremespeed.

    DUSKULL Houndour stops will-o-wisp cold, and OHKOs with Sucker Punch or Crunch. Unfortunately, it pretty much gets do what it wants if Houndour is down.

    ELEKID It's a decent mixed sweeper, but non-choice variants are easily beaten by Gligar. If it is carrying a scarf, Bronzor says, "Hi."

    GASTLY I need to see what it locks itself into first. If it's sludge bomb, my Gastly gets a free sub. If it's the variant I use, then I could be in a pinch. I usually have to use prediction, allow Bronzor to take sleep, break Gastly's substitute with Meowth as it kills me with Sludge Bomb / HP Fighting, then go to Snover and hit it with Blizzard.

    GLIGAR I have 3 immunities to Ground, and 1 resist. Non-choice Gligars are usually forced out by the presence of Snover, and my Gligar hits it with Aqua Tail. Bronzor also has HP Ice.

    HIPPOPOTAS Ha. Usually a lead, so I go with Fake Out, then switch, not U-turn, to Snover, so another win-win situation for me.

    HOUNDOUR If it's a lead, I use Feint and then U-turn (so fun). If not, it's slightly harder to play against. Gligar easily shuts it down, and Sucker Punch ain't doing much.

    KABUTO If it's a lead, Fake Out then switch to Snover. In the rain, Snover again is my switch-in, though I have to make sure it's using Aqua Jet / Waterfall and not rock slide. Bronzor beats all variants outside of the rain.

    KOFFING Repeated attacks - that’s all I have to say. Houndour takes a Will-o-wisp aimed at Gligar and uses Flamethrower.

    MACHOP If it's scarfed, it likes to spam Dynamicpunch. Gastly comes in and sets up a substitute, and it switches out, I know it's scarfed. If it's a lead, Feint then U-turn to Gastly.

    MANKEY Gligar beats it, I just have to watch for a predicted Ice punch.

    MANTYKE Meowth does a good amount of damage with Fake Out. Snover does over 50% with Blizzard (or was it 50% + 5% hail damage? hmm….). Whatever - it's a 2HKO.

    MEOWTH Another lead. I try for the Fake out speed tie, then U-turn out to Gligar and spam U-turns.

    MUNCHLAX Usually comes into Gastly and Houndour. If it comes into the latter, Gligar comes in and says, "Hi". If it comes into Gastly, I have to pray Hypnosis works, then I can set up substitute, then spam Sludge Bomb for the win.

    OMANYTE If it's a lead, Meowth uses Fake Out and then it's off to Snover. Choice Scarf Gligar is faster than all variants, even the swift swimmers in the rain.

    PARAS Likes using Spore. I'll let it, then I switch into either a) Meowth or b) Gligar to use U-turn, or c) Houndour with Flamethrower, although an X-Scissor to the face isn't fun.

    PORYGON What is Porygon, anyways? (I think I beat that CD with a first-turn crit). Gastly sleeps it, Snover outspeeds it, and Agility variants are killed by priority.

    SNOVER Aerial Ace from Gligar, though I have to take caution with Blizzard. My Bronzor doesn't have Flash Cannon, so I can't use him. Leads handled by Meowth - I always use Fake Out first, to scout for protect. If it uses protect, then U-turn takes off like 80% health - then I go to my Snover.

    STARYU Snover beats it, and Meowth speed ties and can use Fake Out then U-turn, when I go to Snover. I keep forgetting that this thing is Water, not Water-Psychic.

    STUNKY In my opinion, the one thing that can destroy my team. It is usually saved for the end of the battle, when Gligar and Bronzor are either a) dead or b) down for the count. If Snover isn't at full health, it's gg for me.

    TAILLOW BRONZOR.

    TOTDILE Simple - don't let it set up. I really don't see where it gets to do that, either. Jolly DD variants are a little harder to stop, but since it can't run Aqua Jet on the same set (*starts dancing around to Cheap Trick's I want you to want me), Meowth does good damage with Fake Out. After that, Gligar can finish it. SD variants are stopped by Snover.

    VOLTORB The lead set is harder than the rain dance set. LeadOrb takes a Fake Out (unfortunately, after I get hit with Sucker Punch), then Gligar kills it (must watch for HP Ice). Snover is a safer switch in, and Blizzard KO's.

    WYNAUT Lol. It can only kill one thing, usually Bronzor. I then go to Gligar or Meowth, and use U-turn (after Fake Out for the latter). I u-turn to Gastly because it is immune to Counter. =]


    I guess a team of Voltorb / Totodile / Stunky / Duskull / Gastly / Buizel does beat me...
  3. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    You peaked at 1572, not 1569 =Þ

    Duskull gives your team a ton of issues. It switches into gligar, bronzor, and meowth, and your only switch into it (admittedly the best switch in in lc) is destroyed if they predict and use return. to solve this (you need 2 checks to duskull imo),
    best suggestion evar (open)
    I suggest a set of crochop, who sets up bulk ups and rests off the damage/burns.
    lamer suggestion (open)
    you should replace snover with a chinchou. It still has a ton of power, and can tank burns because of oran (or scarf maybe) and it's above average defenses. I also think that a scarf isn't necessary because of gligar, and priority on multiple mons, plus, your team hates hail, and chinchy still checks rain. However, that's really your call.


    Time for nitpicks!

    Meowth has got to hate losing return (or, if your wanted to go anti-nails, hypnosis ;P), but if you believe feint is good, use it.

    In my opinion, subdour is extremely average. LO dour destroys anything that switches into it anyways, and losing 60% for one attack just to be forced out sucks (rocks, subs, oshit it's munchy, gotta switch out). Personal preference, I like hp ground, but again, it's your team.

    C6H6: lol i geddit funny nickname

    Gligar: I prefer stone edge > aa, revenging +2 mantykes is damn useful. However, if you're adamant, then aa probably is more useful... jolly is cool on gligar, simply for the tie with other gligars.

    Gastly should have 196 SpA > 116 HP. I used hp fighting > sludge bomb because of aron, but... you have scarf gligar so yeah, use sludge bomb. Lefties/subnosis gastly RULES! <3 (or maybe it's broken. idk... damn good set, annoys the hell out of people when they switch in their munchy at full hp and you come out with a sub up and full hp)

    Cool team, grats on #1 (I have #1 back now though XD)

    PS: you said nails 3x in your post ^_^
  4. irkkk

    irkkk

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    92
    aipom is way better than meowth

    aipom@oran/focus sash
    236 hp 236 spe 36 hp
    jolly
    fake out
    brick break/ seed bomb
    shadow claw
    u turn


    also fire blast on houndour over flame thrower. He'll appreciate the power.
  5. Tibzmonster

    Tibzmonster

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2010
    Messages:
    22
    Aipom doesn't get Technician, so, no, he is not better. The main point of using Meowth over Aipom is Technician to boost Fake Out and Bite (stronger than Shadow Claw by 20 base power).

    He also specifically noted that he did NOT want Fire Blast, and Flamethrower can OHKO Gligar anyway.

    Also, Shinx, and Snubble have Intimidate :)

    Now, onto seriousness.

    I like the idea of Feint (OMFG IT BROKE THE I BEFORE E RULE) on Meowth. I will have to give that a shot, especially with base 90 power... Hmmm.

    That is all I have, and I spent 20 minutes looking at this for flaws >.< Good work bro, looks very (VERY) solid!
  6. Psykout22

    Psykout22

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    46
    I must say I never had the pleasure of battling you with that team.

    Benzene Ring to C6H6 was (in the words of Borat) "that'se nice".

    The team itself is pretty good. A nice immune track you have and with all the immune switches Hail and Stealth Rock can wear them down. One tiny thing is Gastly. I realize Lefties is good for recovery with Substitute; but with hail you aren't gaining anything.

    Your 6 pokes look perfect for the metagame that generation 4 was in. Not to mention the nice Revenge kill and Priority users you have among the "walls". A Great Team.

    I see that you gave Munchlax a black... But looking at your team it appears as though a good player could make it a serious threat. A threat is one that is extremely likely to pull off a KO... which it is.

    Fortunately with the advent of Missy leaving gen 4 Stunky usage went down and so you don't see them much now.

    As your team relies on immunities. It looks like Meowth WILL be sticking around. And so I would advise putting on Return over Feint, you can have a free switch if you see the protect coming anyway.

    You may want to try Glameow over Meowth. Fake Out + Quick Atk/Sucker Punch is more powerful and provides the ability to scout and switch more which will help your team. It does lose the little bulk Meowth had but It's not meant to get hit anyway.

    Aipom is a good idea bulk wise too but I think Glameow is better as you want to keep to the Priority power. I hope i've cleared that up.

    Another thing, but I'm sure you've tried it is. that you may want to try out the Protect/Sub/Seed set on Snover. This is because I don't see how you handle AgilChou and AgilMantyke with such authority. I don't see neccisarily where they can properly set up and ofcourse there is the priority. But I don't see what you're losing that your really need with Scarf Snover.

    That's it for me. Great Team
  7. Fantom0

    Fantom0

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    379
    why don't you just run dark pulse over crunch on houndour, when you already have sucker punch? and also, feint's not brilliant, and meowth could really do with a more dependable STAB (I wouldn't exactly call fake out dependable). snover would be geat with a mixedscarf set using blizzard/wood hammer/HP fire/filler. other than that, good team (although you probably already know that!)
  8. BlocksRcool

    BlocksRcool

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    196
    Don't bump old threads. Aipom also DOES get technician.

    Pretty good team though.
  9. Fantom0

    Fantom0

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    379
    @BlocksRCool, Aipom does not get Tech., so Meowth is better.
  10. Yogi Bear.

    Yogi Bear.

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    120
    AIPOM gets Run Away and Pick Up and in DW, Skill Link.
    AMBIPOM gets Technician and Pick Up and in DW, Skill Link.

    Link to SerebiiDex: http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/424.shtml

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