Pokémon Scizor

[Matrias]

Defog is super appealing to me - with the metagame's giant reliance on hazards, it's is an incredibly disruptive way to play. It makes SR-weak pokemon that much more viable, negates many setup leads, weakens the niche of many spinblockers. However, when you prefer to play the most of your Pokemon on the actual DS games, getting an able defogger is daunting. For most Pokemon, you can only learn the move via HG/SS, and since those games lack the Destiny Knot, breeding for 5/6 IVs in that environment is a deal breaker.

That's where Scizor comes in. Assuming nothings changed, Scizor will have Defog as an eggmove come the 27th. In prep for that, I've been screwing around on showdown trying to find an Scizor loadout effectively utilize defog. I tried a bunch of bulky and support variants, some discussed here, and just found them unsatisfying in terms of offensive pop. Following that, I tried some ineffective Jack-Of-All trades builds and even a Choice-Band Scizor with defog (a predictable disaster).

It's thanks to Scolipede I finally found something that I was happy with.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 148 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Defog
- Roost

Of course, this is just the trapper set with U-Turn swapped for Defog. In a vacuum this build is pretty good. It's no Choice Band set, but it has some punch, can trap and clear hazards, all reasonably effectively. However, with a baton passer...

Often, when your opponent spies no rapid spinner in your group, they eagerly begin the spamming of hazards. The idea is to use this hazard setting period as an opportunity for a baton passer to setup Scizor (or others) with a swords dance. If your opponent ignores you and continues setting up hazards, perfect. Once Scizor is in there with the sword dance, he's a powerful offensive threat on top of being a disruptive one. A +2.33 Bullet Punch almost makes up for lacking Choice-Band Scizor's coverage.

I love it. Alternate leads are of course handy, and alternate baton receivers are a must. I've been using Scolipede, so I like to keep a receiver that can resist fire. Rotom-W is also a great alternative lead (usually when Talonflame is around).

 

[reale]

well, almost everyone start worrying about defog now, and that defog set is pretty walled by skarmory

 

[Matrias]

well, almost everyone start worrying about defog now, and that defog set is pretty walled by skarmory

When is Scizor not walled by Skarmory? If you're using Scizor in any-way-shape-or-form, you should probably have a Skarmory counter on your team.

 

[reale]

When is Scizor not walled by Skarmory? If you're using Scizor in any-way-shape-or-form, you should probably have a Skarmory counter on your team.

well, sword dance and superpower do it, it will be phazed though
knock off over pursuit would be nice, throwing leftovers and eviolites with 2x base power

 

[phiferwolf]

I have a post-scizor; right now it has:

w/ megastone
Adamant
252 ATK/252 Speed/4 HP
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn

though, something tells me something is off about it; but anyway... should I replace anything for Roost?

Or should I go more for an Adamant 252hp. 16 atk. 240 sp.D?

 

[reale]

I have a post-scizor; right now it has:

w/ megastone
Adamant
252 ATK/252 Speed/4 HP
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn

though, something tells me something is off about it; but anyway... should I replace anything for Roost?

Or should I go more for an Adamant 252hp. 16 atk. 240 sp.D?

it misses sword dance, yeah sure it can have roost too but what to sacrifice?
-Bug bite/u-turn
-Bullet punch
-sword dance
-knock off/roost
I don't like the EV spread on Spe

on a plus side, it can't be knocked off like banded scizor

 

[Flantastic27]

Hey guys, I'm hoping to use Scizor as a utility pokemon on a sun team. The plan is to switch into Scizor as needed, clear hazards with Defog, and maybe sneak in the odd revenge kill. I'd like some opinions on how this guy will work for my team, keeping in mind that he's more of a pivot/setup pokemon, rather than a physical sweeper:

Scizor @ Assault Vest (not sure about the item, I prefer bulk to power for him, also considering Leftovers)
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit / Knock-Off
- Defog
- U-Turn

The idea behind the Brave nature is to insure that when I U-Turn into my sun-setter/sweeper (CharY, WeakNite, Ninetails), they don't have to take a hit. Not sure which of Pursuit or Knock-Off I should take. Completely clueless on the EV spread to be perfectly honest, as I haven't done enough testing to see which pokemon threaten my team the most and what kind of stats I need to endure them. I would, however, like to reliably 2HKO Tyranitar with Bullet Punch, and that will likely require full investment in attack. I'm flexible though.

Thanks for your input, everyone.

 

[TKGriffiths]

You can't use Defog if you're holding Assault Vest. Also I don't think Pursuit is worthwhile, Scizor doesn't have a good Ghost matchup anymore since it doesn't resist their STAB so I'd go with Roost or Superpower.

 

[Alakazam100]

I'm probably not the first to think of this, but why not use agility. Scizor's attack stat is great even before it's been boosted. This set patches up Scizor's
relatively slow speed, allowing it to outspeed all of the unboosted OU metagame (Scarf users aside)

Speedy Scizor

Scizor @ Life orb / Leftovers
Adamant / Jolly
Technician
4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed

-Agility
-Iron Head / Bullet Punch
-Pursuit / Knock off
-Bug Bite / U-turn

Agility boosts Scizor's lackluster speed to allow it to outspeed faster threats like infernape, alakazam and starmie. Bullet Punch is a classic staple on Scizor, giving a great priority move boosted by STAB and technician, but since Scizor will usually be outspeeding most OU pokemon after one agility boost, it could be replaced with iron head for the flinch chance and greater power. The choice between Pursuit and Knock off is optional depending on what Scizor is most likely to be fighting, and so depends on your team. U-turn increases momentum, and is a great STAB on Scizor for bulky psychic types, but Bug bite may be preferable on this set, as the Agility boosts will disappear when Scizor returns after U-turn. Leftovers are preferred if Scizor needs more staying power, but Life orb is generally better as it nets Scizor OHKOs and 2HKOs it could not get alone.

 

[neooo]

The difference between SD and this is simply that it bypasses their defense boosts and reflect.
plus, foul play isn't fun.

I was thinking about this the other day. That's got to be one of the best arguments to running Focus Energy crit sets over any Dance sets.

 

[Flantastic27]

You can't use Defog if you're holding Assault Vest. Also I don't think Pursuit is worthwhile, Scizor doesn't have a good Ghost matchup anymore since it doesn't resist their STAB so I'd go with Roost or Superpower.

Silly mistake on my part, I was having trouble thinking of an appropriate held item though. Leftovers? Or should I just use Roost for recovery and give him a Life Orb to make BP and U-Turn hit harder?

 

[TKGriffiths]

Silly mistake on my part, I was having trouble thinking of an appropriate held item though. Leftovers? Or should I just use Roost for recovery and give him a Life Orb to make BP and U-Turn hit harder?

All decent options so it's up to you to look at your team and decide what's best really. You could even consider making him your Mega, I find it gives you the bulk to Roost more reliably while keeping your offense strong.

 

[Flantastic27]

All decent options so it's up to you to look at your team and decide what's best really. You could even consider making him your Mega, I find it gives you the bulk to Roost more reliably while keeping your offense strong.

An interesting suggestion, but I'm using him for a sun team, so CharY is pretty much mandatory.

 

[Flamebot]

Since the CB set is Bulky, why can't I remove CB and replace a move with SD? I actually see that as being more effective than running more speed considering you can actually get a SD up and still keep 252 in attack, You wouldn't miss any KO's at +2 so I just don't understand why I shouldn't do this. (Btw this is for normal Scizor oobviously)

 

[Nubbins]

Because you wouldn't be able to revenge kill with BP, trap with pursuit, or scout with u-turn.

CB scizor is primarily an utility mon, not a sweeper.

 

[Flamebot]

Because you wouldn't be able to revenge kill with BP, trap with pursuit, or scout with u-turn.

CB scizor is primarily an utility mon, not a sweeper.

Pursuit still gets technichan boosted, U-turn still hits hard, revenge kill is your only reasonable point (Not trying to be rude) all hit harder at +2. I'd rather be at +2 and get 3HKO'd and actually have the abillity to switch up my moves even after +2.

 

[Nubbins]

If you want to run SD scizor then go ahead. It's undeniably a good set, especially with mega scizor. But it has a different niche than CB scizor. You can't just slap SD onto CB scizor, change the item, and call it a day.

The main point of u-turn isn't to hit hard, it's to scout your opponent's switch-in and gain momentum. If you have to SD up while they switch in, you've already lost a good deal of momentum. Not to mention +2 u-turn when sweeping is just stupid since you're switching out and losing your boost. Since you're switching out anyways, CB is infinitely superior. SD sets use bug bite.

The goal behind pursuit is to hit the pokemon switching out as hard as you can. Once again, using that turn to SD means giving up that crucial opportunity. And with pokemon like genesect running around, you need that CB to pursuit them as hard as you can on turn 1. +2 pursuit is even more stupid than +2 u-turn since after turn 1, your opponent isn't going to be switching out anymore. And without that bonus, pursuit is weak, technician or not.

SD scizor is good and all, but it's not an upgrade to CB scizor. And don't use u-turn or pursuit on it.

 

[Flamebot]

If you want to run SD scizor then go ahead. It's undeniably a good set, especially with mega scizor. But it has a different niche than CB scizor. You can't just slap SD onto CB scizor, change the item, and call it a day.

The main point of u-turn isn't to hit hard, it's to scout your opponent's switch-in and gain momentum. If you have to SD up while they switch in, you've already lost a good deal of momentum. Not to mention +2 u-turn when sweeping is just stupid since you're switching out and losing your boost. Since you're switching out anyways, CB is infinitely superior. SD sets use bug bite.

The goal behind pursuit is to hit the pokemon switching out as hard as you can. Once again, using that turn to SD means giving up that crucial opportunity. And with pokemon like genesect running around, you need that CB to pursuit them as hard as you can on turn 1. +2 pursuit is even more stupid than +2 u-turn since after turn 1, your opponent isn't going to be switching out anymore. And without that bonus, pursuit is weak, technician or not.

SD scizor is good and all, but it's not an upgrade to CB scizor. And don't use u-turn or pursuit on it.

I was talking about SD before they do those. That way if they switch the get hit even harder. Ethier way, I meant why can't I use the same spread as the Choice band set and Replace something with SD? O.O

 

[Chou Toshio]

This is the Scizor strategy thread-- not the "please give me suggestions until I figure out how to use Scizor on my team" thread.

Flamebot, stop derailing the topic. For the record, CB Scizor abuses Pursuit and U-Turn far better than non-CB Scizor, and if you can't figure out why you should probably go and battle more before posting.

 

[neesan]

A lot of Mawiles have been investing into Speed to speed creep Scizor and a couple of others, would it be worth sacrificing some bulk and trying to counter their speed investments with your own?

 

[-NLMRY-]

Defog is super appealing to me - with the metagame's giant reliance on hazards, it's is an incredibly disruptive way to play. It makes SR-weak pokemon that much more viable, negates many setup leads, weakens the niche of many spinblockers. However, when you prefer to play the most of your Pokemon on the actual DS games, getting an able defogger is daunting. For most Pokemon, you can only learn the move via HG/SS, and since those games lack the Destiny Knot, breeding for 5/6 IVs in that environment is a deal breaker.

That's where Scizor comes in. Assuming nothings changed, Scizor will have Defog as an eggmove come the 27th. In prep for that, I've been screwing around on showdown trying to find an Scizor loadout effectively utilize defog. I tried a bunch of bulky and support variants, some discussed here, and just found them unsatisfying in terms of offensive pop. Following that, I tried some ineffective Jack-Of-All trades builds and even a Choice-Band Scizor with defog (a predictable disaster).

It's thanks to Scolipede I finally found something that I was happy with.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 148 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Defog
- Roost

Of course, this is just the trapper set with U-Turn swapped for Defog. In a vacuum this build is pretty good. It's no Choice Band set, but it has some punch, can trap and clear hazards, all reasonably effectively. However, with a baton passer...

Often, when your opponent spies no rapid spinner in your group, they eagerly begin the spamming of hazards. The idea is to use this hazard setting period as an opportunity for a baton passer to setup Scizor (or others) with a swords dance. If your opponent ignores you and continues setting up hazards, perfect. Once Scizor is in there with the sword dance, he's a powerful offensive threat on top of being a disruptive one. A +2.33 Bullet Punch almost makes up for lacking Choice-Band Scizor's coverage.

I love it. Alternate leads are of course handy, and alternate baton receivers are a must. I've been using Scolipede, so I like to keep a receiver that can resist fire. Rotom-W is also a great alternative lead (usually when Talonflame is around).

I use a similar build, but with Knock Off in place of Pursuit. Knock Off is so good this gen, and since you're using Scizor as more of a supporter, I suggest you try it.

 

[Sleepwalkah]

I'm playing my CBzor in an SFD core alongside wish-passer Sylveon and in-your-face Garchomp. It's pretty cool and annoying but I'm never sure about the 4th moveslot. This is the actual set:

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Acrobatics

First I couldn't get Knock Off on it so I tried Rock Smash for coverage. It works pretty well and has a 50% chance to lower the enemy's defense. But I wasn't that happy with it, because it isn't as useful as Knock Off.

Then I decided to use Acrobatics, especially against threats like Megasaur. But why not Aerial Ace? It hits for granted and has got 60 base dmg which doubles through technician, doesn't it?

Any suggestions for a 4th move so I can turn a good utility mon into a great one?

 

[Toadskii]

I made a video discussing two different sets on Scizor, one set being the Mega-Evolution Set and the other being a Life Orb / Support Set. You can check out that video here:

 

[TKGriffiths]

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Acrobatics

First I couldn't get Knock Off on it so I tried Rock Smash for coverage. It works pretty well and has a 50% chance to lower the enemy's defense. But I wasn't that happy with it, because it isn't as useful as Knock Off.

Then I decided to use Acrobatics, especially against threats like Megasaur. But why not Aerial Ace? It hits for granted and has got 60 base dmg which doubles through technician, doesn't it?

Any suggestions for a 4th move so I can turn a good utility mon into a great one?

If you haven't got access to Superpower the next best thing is Brick Break. Rock Smash is weak, Aerial Ace doesn't hit anything notable for much damage and it's a terrible move to be locked into. Quick Attack is another option so you have decently powerful priority to revenge stuff that resist Bullet Punch (Volcarona after Stealth Rock for example). Roost is also an option, might sound ridiculous to be choice-locked into Roost but Scizor can force out/wall a lot of pokemon which gives it free turns to heal and then switch out. Roost works better on Mega Stone sets though.

 

[grish8]

What about the thief. This gen it has 60 base power, which gives a good answer to aegislash.