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- Thread starter WhiteQueen
- Start date
Hey WhiteQueen! I absolutely adore this team, as it combines a bunch of my favorite elements into one team. With this said, there really isn't a lot to say or change about this team, as it is very well ll rounded and constructed. I do however, have some small things you could implement, that I thought could make this team even better, if possible.
Fitstly, regarding your Gengar. I noticed that you we're running Sludge Wave, which I found odd, as you have the possibility to support Hex better. This is why I suggest running Sludge Bomb, as we all know how often a 30% chance to poision is and for the price of only a few extra damage points, I think it's well worth it.
The next thing I noticed, was how Excadrill weak you were, as at the moment it has the chance to 2hko everything on your team. This can be fixed pretty easily though, with the use of Defensive Mega Venusaur. Being able to tank three Life Orb Earthquakes from this threat and suck some of it health back with Giga Drain. The lose of power could be a bit annoying, but considering the coverage and offensive support the rest of your team can supply, I really don't think it should be that much of a problem.
This is really all I can contribute at the moment, as it's really hard to pick up any noticeable flaws or issues. This team truely is awesome and I'm glad you shared it here with us, thabks!
Fitstly, regarding your Gengar. I noticed that you we're running Sludge Wave, which I found odd, as you have the possibility to support Hex better. This is why I suggest running Sludge Bomb, as we all know how often a 30% chance to poision is and for the price of only a few extra damage points, I think it's well worth it.
The next thing I noticed, was how Excadrill weak you were, as at the moment it has the chance to 2hko everything on your team. This can be fixed pretty easily though, with the use of Defensive Mega Venusaur. Being able to tank three Life Orb Earthquakes from this threat and suck some of it health back with Giga Drain. The lose of power could be a bit annoying, but considering the coverage and offensive support the rest of your team can supply, I really don't think it should be that much of a problem.
This is really all I can contribute at the moment, as it's really hard to pick up any noticeable flaws or issues. This team truely is awesome and I'm glad you shared it here with us, thabks!
Hey WhiteQueen, I really like this team and have to admit that I have used it couple of times on the ladder to a great degree of success. I just have one small change for you to consider. Have you ever thought about running Stone Edge > Sucker Punch on your Scarf Bisharp? Stone Edge allows you to catch Stallbreaker Talonflame, which gives your team a lot of trouble otherwise, by surprise. From what I can see, your team isn't all that weak to Mega Manectric or Mega Alakazam, especially if you follow Snowy.'s advice and go with a Defensive Mega Venusaur, so Sucker Punch isn't really required handle those two threats. Thanks for reading and I hope you consider my advice!
Those are all great advices. I have edited the OP to reflect them. Thanks.
How do you beat SpDef Talon? The TauntWisp set seems to do a whole lot of work vs this team unless you can get a para off with Klefki or poison with Sludge Bomb from Venu or Gar. This isn't meant as a criticism because it's obviously a very solid team judging from all its success, but was just wondering what the plan is vs this threat.
Stone Edge Sharp is a cool idea, didn't see that above but yea that looks like it would reduce the weakness.
Stone Edge Sharp is a cool idea, didn't see that above but yea that looks like it would reduce the weakness.
Yep, pretty much what you said. Paralyze it with Klefki, try to Knock Off its Leftovers, and stall it out with Chansey and double switches. The Taunt/WoW Talonflame doesn't pack enough power to break the fat one.
Stone Edge Bisharp is a more reliable way to stop it and is a good suggestion by Hjwang.
LO Sand Rush Excadrill just blows through this team as far as I can see. The SD version can also set up vs Chansey/Bisharp locked into wrong move and win. SpDef Mega Sableye also seems to be an issue as it gets numerous opportunities to come in, spread burns and stop your hazard stack. I'm curious to know your game plan vs these mons.
yo whitequeen
most of the issues of this team has been already pointed out: excadrill (and off grounds in general like sd chomp or double dance lando, force you to make carefully plays with gengar + magnet rise klefki or plainly sack smthng), some talon versions, certain hazards cores, etc.; so there is no much to suggest, that haven't been said, tho as far as i can see klefki spread has no real benchmark other than "improving defenses". thus i suggest a little minor change: 252 hp / 108 def / 148 sdef, bold, makes you able to always survive the combination of zen headbutt + meteor mash from m metagross at full health. not much of a feat but at least is something imo, and considering you are not much prolific in m meta switch ins it may come in use. also no need to run impish as foul play uses opp atk so doesn't matter, but bold may come in handy vs random foul play like klefki mirror match or some shit
most of the issues of this team has been already pointed out: excadrill (and off grounds in general like sd chomp or double dance lando, force you to make carefully plays with gengar + magnet rise klefki or plainly sack smthng), some talon versions, certain hazards cores, etc.; so there is no much to suggest, that haven't been said, tho as far as i can see klefki spread has no real benchmark other than "improving defenses". thus i suggest a little minor change: 252 hp / 108 def / 148 sdef, bold, makes you able to always survive the combination of zen headbutt + meteor mash from m metagross at full health. not much of a feat but at least is something imo, and considering you are not much prolific in m meta switch ins it may come in use. also no need to run impish as foul play uses opp atk so doesn't matter, but bold may come in handy vs random foul play like klefki mirror match or some shit
Sorry if im chiming in, but I feel like I can answer this question farly well for WhiteQueen. I mentioned before about how big of a threat Excadrill was, with the current best means being to sack something and try and revenge it with Venusuar or Keldeo. This is why I originally suggested a more Defensive spread. However, I really do not see Sableye being a problem, with keldeo using it as free set up fodder and Gengar 2hko with Hex once it has been burned by Keldeo's Scald or Posioned by Vensaurs or Gengars Sludge Bomb. Sableye is also really passive, unless running the awful Calm Mind set, which still doesn't result in any problems with Keldeo laying around. It passiveness means, that it really can't effect the team in all to many ways, as it's basically a free switch into keldeo or even Mega Venusaur to get the potential poision for Gengar.
TL:DR Basically, although Excadrill is indeed a threat, it can be revenge killed by Keldeo or Mega Venusuar or handled with a change in Mega Venusaur Ev's. Mega Sableye really isn't a problem, with Calm Mind Keldeo using it as set up fodder and it having no ability to do anything against Mega Venusuar.
Yep, Excadrill is troublesome. I updated the OP with Snowy.'s Defensive Venusaur set. Sableye is going to be annoying to any team that doesn't have Clefable or a Fire-type, and it is especially pesky against Spikes-stacking teams. Just poison or burn it and hope it faint quickly. Also tweaked Klefki's EVs a bit per Sergi's suggestion, as it's good too.
I feel like toxic spikes would be awesome for easily spreading status to help power up gengar's hex and provide chip damage. Also useful for statusing Sableye and Diancie. Chansey is really passive and you already have prankster thunder wave on Klefki. So, have you considered max SpD Nidoqueen over Chansey? Queen learns toxic spikes and stealth rock, has reasonable special bulk when invested (though not as good as pink blob obvs) and actually has some offensive presence too with sheer force, with good attacking type options such as ground, ice and fire that the team currently lacks. The set could look like this:
Nidoqueen @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic Spikes
- Ice Beam / Flamethrower
- Earth Power
Maybe it's bad, I dunno, just tell me if there's some obvious flaw I'm missing :/ I really like the team anyway and you've inspired me to make a hex gengar team of my own which I'm excited to try :)
Edit: I guess it doesn't help with the excadrill weakness...
If you didn't want to stack weaknesses (ground/psychic although gar has levitate and Bish makes the latter not so much of an issue) Forretress is another option. Learns toxic spikes and SR and has volt switch / explosion for momentum, and rapid spin which could be useful. Or even toxic for poisoning flying types. But then you lose your special wall so...
Nidoqueen @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic Spikes
- Ice Beam / Flamethrower
- Earth Power
Maybe it's bad, I dunno, just tell me if there's some obvious flaw I'm missing :/ I really like the team anyway and you've inspired me to make a hex gengar team of my own which I'm excited to try :)
Edit: I guess it doesn't help with the excadrill weakness...
If you didn't want to stack weaknesses (ground/psychic although gar has levitate and Bish makes the latter not so much of an issue) Forretress is another option. Learns toxic spikes and SR and has volt switch / explosion for momentum, and rapid spin which could be useful. Or even toxic for poisoning flying types. But then you lose your special wall so...
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Sp.Def Nidoqueen is a neat idea and could potential work on a different team. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the natural bulk that Eviolite Chansey possesses. Chansey is so bulky that even a Choice Specs Secret Sword from Keldeo fails to OHKO her at full health. She's also a good blanket switch-in to virtually everything, bar really strong Fighting moves and stuff like Substitute Gengar. She has the ability to stop powerhouses like Mega Alakazam, Manaphy, Latios, etc. from nuking this team by paralyzingly them with Thunder Wave or brush off their attacks with Soft-Boiled. Nidoqueen doesn't have that luxury.
The only reason to use Magnet Rise on Klefki is because of Foul Play. Otherwise Klefki would just be a sitting duck against boosting Ground-types, especially Gliscor and Landorus-T. Dazzling Gleam would be nice against Mega Sableye, but Foul Play is more useful overall.
Hi WhiteQueen,
This is a pretty great team. I've been using it recently on the OU ladder and frankly find myself running over a lot of opponents, I started a fresh alt and laddered relatively high at a quick pace. In using the team (for ~50 or so games) I've gotten pretty used to the psychology exhibited by my opponents with mons that give the team trouble (as said before, Exca was one that took me a little bit to get used to. Bluffing Sucker on a damaged +2 Exca was something I've had to do a few times) but there is still one mon that gives me a lot of issues when playing. Tornadus-T, namely.
The difficulty comes with the scouting phase, where it's hard to know exactly what Torn is running. The moves that are the biggest pains are usually Superpower and Knock off, though Taunt and Heat Wave have both been issues (Heat Wave is the easiest one though). Even more than that, it's the combination of these moves that makes it hard, because it's rough to know who to switch into at any given point. While Bisharp outspeeds, if I'm forced to reveal Scarf early on then the opponent rarely stays in, making me have to play a Pursuit game for a mon that is very often a win condition.
Probably the best way of "dealing" with a Torn T (this holds especially up for early-to-mid game, where there are usually 5-6 mons on each team still so I need to be careful about preserving until I can eliminate checks/counters) is to let Chansey take a Knock Off to get the Para off. While this isn't necessarily ideal, it's the best I've come up with in a lot of games so far just because this mon seems really difficult to switch into.
I don't find Mega Sableye that hard, in contrary to what other people are saying. As long as you get Keldeo in on a non-WoW you can sub and start boosting in its face, often times opening up a path for victory when it's all played out.
This is a pretty great team. I've been using it recently on the OU ladder and frankly find myself running over a lot of opponents, I started a fresh alt and laddered relatively high at a quick pace. In using the team (for ~50 or so games) I've gotten pretty used to the psychology exhibited by my opponents with mons that give the team trouble (as said before, Exca was one that took me a little bit to get used to. Bluffing Sucker on a damaged +2 Exca was something I've had to do a few times) but there is still one mon that gives me a lot of issues when playing. Tornadus-T, namely.
The difficulty comes with the scouting phase, where it's hard to know exactly what Torn is running. The moves that are the biggest pains are usually Superpower and Knock off, though Taunt and Heat Wave have both been issues (Heat Wave is the easiest one though). Even more than that, it's the combination of these moves that makes it hard, because it's rough to know who to switch into at any given point. While Bisharp outspeeds, if I'm forced to reveal Scarf early on then the opponent rarely stays in, making me have to play a Pursuit game for a mon that is very often a win condition.
Probably the best way of "dealing" with a Torn T (this holds especially up for early-to-mid game, where there are usually 5-6 mons on each team still so I need to be careful about preserving until I can eliminate checks/counters) is to let Chansey take a Knock Off to get the Para off. While this isn't necessarily ideal, it's the best I've come up with in a lot of games so far just because this mon seems really difficult to switch into.
I don't find Mega Sableye that hard, in contrary to what other people are saying. As long as you get Keldeo in on a non-WoW you can sub and start boosting in its face, often times opening up a path for victory when it's all played out.