Shadows In The Sky

dcae

plaza athénée
is a defending SCL Championis a Past SCL Champion
It's been a long time since I dared dive into the repetitive metagame known as OU. I had had enough of Volturn, Tyranitar, Excadrill, and other major pokes. After dabbling for several months in the lower tiers, where I achieved decent success, I was convinced to rise back to OU, and see the new meta now that Dugtrio, Alakazam are in OU, and Exca has been banned. I then decided to make a weatherless team with an uncommon Scarf Core. Soon, I knew that it was dysfunctional: I had to use classics. With shame I used Scizor and Dragonite for the first time in 5th gen. However, this team impressed me by laddering up to 34th. I came to Smogon and got the necessary advice I needed to use Starmie. Merely a week after, I obtained 1st in the OU ladder in PO and won quite a few Wifi OU tours. With all my goals accomplished, I declare this team retired. Any more advice is never harmful, though, so feel free to comment. So, without further ado, I present Shadows In The Sky, my RMT.

Team Building Process:

This team has gone through so many changes, it is impossible to show them all. I will list all previous members later, but will give an overall structure of my team now. I began this team based around two unexpected Scarfers: Celebi and Jirachi.



This core started, I needed a poke to mesh well with the two pixies and cover their huge Fire weakness. I decided upon a Scarf Heatran, forming a CeleTran Core. However, I was adding too many Scarfers, so my Heatran ended up being a slightly modified version of the Special Defense Wall variant.



Now I needed a vital set up sweeper, as otherwise my team could not sweep much. I decided to test out the badass ghetto lizard Bulk Up Scrafty. This guy was to be my powerful sweeper. With a sweeper down, defensive Stealth Rocks setter, and 2 Scarfers, I had most of my team down.



Normally, after getting this far, I fail at finding a decent lead to use consistently. The advent of Team Preview has destroyed the concept of a designated lead. However, as I was bred in the days of no Wifi Preview, I needed a lead that could always pose an offensive threat and lay hazards. I found what I needed in Froslass. The female ghost had great speed, Spikes hazards, spinblocking, Taunting, and vital Destiny Bond. With her capacities, Froslass dissuades many first turn set up sweepers and single handedly takes down at least a poke per match thanks to Destiny Bond. I now had everything I needed.



For fun, I wanted to test the newly released Outrage + Moxie of Salamence. I picked the Scarf set over the Mixed set due to the element of surprise, as well as the fact that I felt the Mixed set required too much set up time. I went along with this third Scarfer to form the ScarfCore of my original team, ranking up to around 1200.



After much testing, Celebi's overflow of weaknesses and lack of sheer power made me regret its spot on the team. I ran through possible substitutes, including Vaporeon and Slowbro, before finally settling on a good old Espeon to shut down Breloom and repel status and hazards in general. Its speed and typing gave me a good Fighting resist.



Jirachi soon lacked the power to continue as well. Scrafty was proving far to slow and took too much time to set up as a sweeper, so both of my original pokes were being kicked out. After some more thinking, I had no replacements. This was where I was obliged to use classics... I ended up replacing Jirachi with a standard Choice Band Scizor, which I had never used before. Scrafty was disposed of and replaced by the powerful Dragonite. Espeon was still very effective, but Celebi being gone meant I had no switch ins to Electric attacks or Water attacks (excluding Salamence and Dragonite). I soon found myself being rampaged by Calm Mind Rachi. This led me to introduce Espeon's brother instead: a Jolteon. It gave me a powerful Rain team sweeper and much needed Electric immunity. Though I did consider Slowbro at some time, its lack of offensive presence made it an unwanted option.



Ironically, after laddering up to my peak, I realized that without a spinner this team isn't going any higher. To give the chance to go higher and dispatch threats such as Mamoswine and Gliscor, I decided to replace my new Jolteon with Starmie. Starmie was fast, strong, and provided spinning, everything Jolteon did and more. Now, I have so far my most successful team ever.





Team at a Glance:












In Depth:

Frosty (Froslass)(Spikes Setter and Lead)

Froslass (F) @Focus Sash
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs : 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
-Ice Beam
-Destiny Bond
-Spikes
-Taunt

This is quite possibly my favorite lead ever. I love using a combination of Taunt, Destiny Bond, and Spikes to torture my opponent. Due to Froslass's great speed, it will Taunt almost everything before they can move. Therefore, the opponent will have to switch or attack. Smart people know Froslass has Destiny Bond, so they will switch while I can Spike. This will keep happening until the opponent chooses to sacrifice one of their pokes to bring this guy down. No matter what, this lead will take out one of my opponents pokes. Nicely enough, it is a Ghost type, allowing it to spinblock while setting hazards, making it an unstoppable hazard setter.​

The EVs and nature are standard, aiming to get the most speed possible out of Froslass. 252 SpA EVs will allow it to hit 296 Special Attack, permitting it to OHKO threats such as Sawsbuck on Sun teams, Haxorus, and Lati@s. It will dispatch all dragons you would ask it too. Standard lead moveset as well, bringing down Ninetails and Politoed using Destiny Bond, setting hazards with Spikes, and Taunting weaklings such as Forretress or Ferrothorn, two of my least favorite pokes. This Froslass is extraordinary and I suggest you out there try it.​

Synergy:

Rock: None, but Heatran tanks them
Fire: Heatran, Salamence, Dragonite
Ghost: Heatran, Scizor
Dark: Heatran, Scizor
Steel: Heatran, Scizor, Jolteon​





Dragon King (Salamence)(Scarfer and Revenge Sweeper)

Salamence (F) @Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs : 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Naughty (+Atk, -SpD)
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
-Brick Break

The hands down best poke on my team. This Salamence is the sole reason I have laddered so high, constantly impressing me with its amazing revenge killing and sweeping capabilities. Outrage is the STAB move of choice, OHKOing many threats in the metagame, and even 2HKOing Air Balloon Heatran after Stealth Rocks. Hazards aid this flying beast to rip through unprepared teams. Any team lacking Steels or Mamoswine/Weavile will feel very sad as their team is sweeped. None of this is exaggeration, as I once won a battle where I was down 6-1, and Salamence pulled through to give me victory. I must, however, admit that the first KO this dragon obtains is generally due to the surprise of a Scarf sets. Many times have I switched into a Starmie after it has KOed one of my pokes and revenge killed it, obtaining the Moxie boost, and then severely hurting or KOing the next entrant.​

The EVs are basic, giving max Speed and max Attack to hit as hard and as fast as possible. The only unusual thing here is running Adamant nature. I, however, specifically selected Naughty to nab the OHKO on ScarfTom, as well as the fact it will hit a mighty 607 Attack after just one Moxie boost. I run Brick Break over Stone Edge, however, because it destroys Screens and hurts Tyranitar much more and Earthquake, and will OHKO Specially Defensive Heatran at +1. Fire Blast dispatches Skarmorys who could pose problems, and Earthquake completes magnificent coverage. Here are several damage calculations to demonstrate the godly power of this king:​

Salamence at +1 using Outrage deals 48.1 - 56.85% to standard Choice Band Scizor. (2HKO)
Salamence using Outrage does 111.98 - 132.64% (271-321 HP) to Standard Rotom-W (OHKO)
Salamence using Outrage deals 42.1 - 49.84% (136-161 HP) to Air Balloon Heatran (2HKO after Stealth Rocks)
Salamence at +1 using Outrage deals 108.27 - 127.31% (432-508 HP) to Tinkerbell Celebi (OHKOs all variants)​

Those calcs show one the power of this beast. It is an extremely underrated threat and is worth trying.​

Synergy:

Ice: Heatran, Scizor
Rock: None, but Heatran tanks
Dragon: Heatran, Scizor​





Magma Pool (Heatran) (Stealth Rocks and Specially Defensive Wall)

Heatran (M) @Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 204 HP / 168 SpA / 136 SpD
Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
-Stealth Rock
-Roar
-Lava Plume
-Earth Power

This is a very useful Heatran set I came up with to tank Special hits and set up Stealth Rocks and phaze with Roar. This Heatran shuts down any Volcarona lacking Hidden Power Ground, because it can take any attack it has and phaze it out if it has accumulated too many boosts, or try to send it under 50% so the next time it switches in, it is dead. It also covers SubDD Dragonite and any variant of it that lacks Earthquake or Waterfall. One of the best walls in the tier, it will not be 2HKOed by Politoed's Scald under rain with no investment. Lava Plume induces Burns and dissuades physical attackers to set up on this poke. Earth Power is necessary to dispatch opposing Heatran, though I have been thinking of using Hidden Power Ice over it to pop opposing Heatran's balloons. Heatran is vital for my team because it covers Dragonite, Salamence, and Scizor's weaknesses. If this poke goes down against a team with STAB Ice Shard or powerful Fire sweepers, I have a very hard time to win.​

I came up with this EV set fairly recently on another of my teams. While constructing this one, I deemed it a better fit than the Scarfed one I originally had in mind. 204 HP EVs is a Leftovers number, while Calm nature with 136 SpD EVs gets me to 310 Special Defense. This EV set allows me to never be OHKOed by standard offensive Heatran and tank two Scalds from bulky Politoed. The SpA EVs allow it to OHKO all standard offensive Heatran. A great wall, Heatran has done much for this team.​

Synergy:

Ground: Salamence, Dragonite
Water: Salamence, Dragonite
Fighting: Salamence, Dragonite​






Patrick Star (Starmie) (Special Attacker and Spinner)

Starmie (F) @Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
-Hydro Pump
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam/Rest
-Rapid Spin

This Starmie was proposed to me by New World Order and seconded by RUisSerperior, so I decided to test it out. It replaces my previous special attacker, Jolteon. Starmie provides a large amount of advantages over the previous slot holder, as this Psychic beast has Rapid Spin, a HUGE benefit to my team, as well as spamming powerful special attacks giving it perfect coverage. Natural Cure also allows Starmie to take status, a gaping hole left by the replacement of Scizor. However, Starmie is not all shine and glory. It gives me crucial weakness to Electric, a type resisted by no members of my team. Also, I am losing the Volturn combo I had obtained by introducing Jolteon. So far, however, I have had no problems with Starmie and have lost no battles since adding it. It breaks through Mamoswine and also OHKOs Gliscor while still countering Rain.​

This is a special attacker set, maximizing Special Attack and Speed, making it hit a monstrous 361 Speed. Hydro Pump + Life Orb + STAB + decent 299 SpA allows it to hit hard and OHKO the most specially defensive Heatran. Under Rain, this attack hurts even more. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt provides perfect neutral coverage, great additions to the set. It is rounded off by Rapid Spin, to get rid of hazards that piss my team off. Rest is an option I've been considering, because it allows Starmie to heal off all damage including Life Orb damage, and switch out to get rid of Sleep thanks to Natural Cure. Some advice on this is wanted.​

Synergy:

Electric: None
Grass: Heatran, Dragonite, Salamence, Scizor
Bug: Heatran, Dragonite, Salamence, Scizor, Froslass
Dark: Heatran, Scizor
Ghost: Heatran, Scizor​







Metal Bug (Scizor) (Priority and Choice Band)

Scizor (M) @Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-U-Turn
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-Quick Attack

I have never used the standard Choice Band set that has made Scizor the number one used poke for two generations in a row. I generally dislike all that is always used by people. However, this poke was the best option for what I needed to cover: Mamoswine, bulky Psychics, set up sweepers gone too far. After a few battles, I immediately understood why everyone uses Scizor. It is amazing. Bullet Punch is the hardest hitting priority move and can kill almost anything. A few pokes I could name that are OHKOed by this move are Dugtrio, Gengar, and even Zoroark. Scizor has come through on many clutch opportunities, and I honestly believe this poke deserves every bit of its number one used ranking.​

This is majorly a standard Scizor, nothing much to say apart from a tweak in its moveset. I hate Pursuit and getting locked into it. It screams set-up. Therefore, I will not use Pursuit at any cost. I instead chose Quick Attack which does decent damage and can revenge Volcarona or Rotom-W. Also, I removed 8 more HP EVs and sent them into Speed so I can outspeed opposing Choice Band Scizors and 1 Speed creepers. The move I use the least here is Superpower, because Heatran outspeeds Scizor and I get KOed anyways. However, I have nothing better to replace it with.​

Synergy:

Fire: Heatran, Salamence, Dragonite​






Devastation (Dragonite) (Set-up Sweeper and Priority)

Dragonite (M) @Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 164 HP / 132 Atk / 212 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Fire Punch
-Extremespeed

And here is the second most used poke in the metagame. Once more, I state that the reason I selected this poke as my set-up sweeper was because I had no other options that would work with the team. I mentioned above my failed attempts with Scrafty and other set up sweepers. Dragonite is a powerful beast once he gets started, not much can stand in his way. I feel like it also deserves to be the number two ranked due to its awesome coverage and access to priority. I previously used Earthquake, but more recently been using Extremespeed to kill Mamoswine before it disposes of me with Ice Shard.​

This is a custom set I designed to dispose of threats to my team. After one Dragon Dance, Fire Punch will destroy a Forretress no matter the set. The speed has been tuned to outspeed Alakazam after one Dragon Dance and OHKO it. 164 HP allows Dragonite to switch into attacks and begin setting up. Essentially a bulky Dragonite lacking Roost for priority, this guy sweeps teams lacking Mamoswine. As mentioned several times, Mamoswine is the biggest threat to my team hands down. I don't normally have Dragonite at full health because I switch him into a weak attack and set up.​

Synergy:

Ice: Heatran, Scizor
Dragon: Heatran, Scizor
Rock: None, but Heatran tanks​





Conclusion
This team has accomplished many things for me, and I am hopeful I will get the advice I need here on Smogon. Before ending this RMT, I have decided to pack two more features: an Honorary Member section as well as the ever important Threat List. I hope you had a good read, and hopefully rate. Here is a few of battles to show how I take down different types of teams:​


Honorary Members (Deserve Special Mention)




Psycho Cat (Espeon) (Magic Bounce and Screens Support)

Espeon (F) @Rocky Helmet
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Psychic
-Wish
-Light Screen
-Reflect


Detail:
To be honest, Espeon was a great member of my team and pulled me all the way up to the 1300s before I replaced her with Jolteon. The Screen Support she gave was invaluable to keeping Salamence or Dragonite alive from Scizor Bullet Punches or Mamoswine Ice Shards. Rocky Helmet dissuaded physical attackers to prey on her wimpy defense, allowing me necessary time to set up screens. Espeon also provided Wish support, healing up Dragonite to utilize Multiscale despite the presence of Stealth Rocks on the field. Repelling hazards, she could also stop hazards being set up on my field, while also checking Breloom by switching into Spore to reflect the Sleep, outspeeding and OHKOing with Psychic.

Her EV set is standard, max Speed to set up the Screens as fast as possible. Max HP gave me vital life support and made my Wishes bigger. Moveset is as standard as can be, except the fact I chose to pass up on Hidden Power Fighting or Fire. Both of them made me lose to speed tie to other base 110s, as well as doing next to no damage because I did not invest in Special Defense. Wish allowed Espeon to stay in the match and keep the health of my pokes up.​



Why was it removed?​


I took out Espeon after getting ravaged by a Rain team that consisted of Jolteon and Mamoswine. The Jolteon killed most of my team with Thunder, while Mamoswine took out Salamence as I attempted to revenge it.​



Synergy:​



Bug: Dragonite, Heatran, Salamence, Scizor, Froslass
Dark: Heatran, Scizor
Ghost: Heatran, Scizor​




Jolty (Jolteon) (Special Attacker and Rain Sweeper)

Jolteon (F) @Choice Specs
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Grass]
-Signal Beam



Detail:
Jolteon is the most recent addition to my team, replacing the former Espeon. Jolteon gives me the vital Electric immunity I need against Rain teams, as well as providing me with a powerful Thunderbolt to abuse against opposing Water types. However, I have lost 2 battles due to Thunder missing without weather. As a result, I decided to modify Thunder to Thunderbolt to have reliability, as suggested by Juanca529. Jolteon is very fast, destroying opposing pokes by outspeeding every poke out there except for Accelgor, Ninjask, and Electrode. It is decently bulky, able to take a sun-boosted Hidden Power Fire from a Mixed Venusaur. It also forms an excellent Volturn combo with Scizor, due to the moves being present on both pokes obviously.


The EV set is slightly different from the standard. The Speed EVs have been carefully tuned to outspeed max Speed Weavile, hitting 385 with the EVs. 40 HP EVs increase its bulk while keeping it at a hazard friendly number. Max Special Attack to get the best benefit from Specs. The moveset is highly unstandard. I run Hidden Power Grass after getting devastated by a physically Defensive Quagsire, and it also kills Mamoswine, which could be a huge threat to my team. Signal Beam kills Grass types resistant to both Hidden Power Grass and its STAB attacks. Volt Switch is necessary to scout and maintain momentum. Thunderbolt is the STAB move of choice, insanely devastating against Rain.​



Why was it removed?​


I needed a spinner and a special attacker with more flexibility. Having a third Choiced poke was troublesome too, so I switch Jolteon out for Starmie.​



Synergy:



Ground: Salamence, Dragonite​





Threat List: (Threats in Red, minor ones in Blue, nonthreats in Black)​




Offensive Threats


Tyranitar:

Choice Band -Scizor​



Choice Scarf -Scizor​



Dragon Dance -Scizor​



Rotom-W:
Choice Scarf / Specs -Salamence, Jolteon disrupts Volturn​



Scizor:
Choice Band -Heatran​



Swords Dance -Heatran​



Dragonite:
Choice Band -Salamence, Scizor​



Dragon Dance -Salamence, Scizor​



Mixed -Salamence, Scizor​



Parashuffler -Salamence, Scizor​



Politoed:
Choice Specs / Scarf -Salamence​



Heatran:
Standard -Salamence, Heatran​



Jirachi:
Substitute + Calm Mind / Wish + Calm Mind -Salamence, Dragonite​



Latios:
Life Orb -Salamence, Scizor​



Choice Scarf / Specs -Salamence takes Specs, Scizor switches in on anything except for HP Fire and kills​



Calm Mind - Salamence, Scizor​



Reuniclus:
Calm Mind -Scizor​



Offensive Trick Room -Scizor​



Haxorus:
Choice Scarf / Choice Band -Salamence, Froslass​



Dragon Dance -Salamence, Froslass​



Double Dance -Salamence, Froslass​



Ninetales:
Nasty Plot -Salamence​



Choice Specs -Salamence​



Special Attacker -Salamence​



Conkeldurr:
Bulk Up -Jolteon, Dragonite​



Celebi:
Nasty Plot Sweeper -Salamence, Scizor​



Tinkerbell -Salamence, Scizor​



Choice Specs / Choice Scarf -Specs is Salamence, Scizor/Scarf is Scizor​



Terrakion:
Double Dance -Scizor​



Choice Scarf / Choice Band -Non-Scarf is handled by Scizor, Band is Salamence and Scizor​



Gyarados:
Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance -Jolteon​



Gengar:
Substitute + Disable / Pain Split -Scizor, Salamence​



Starmie:
Life Orb -Salamence​



Rapid Spin -Salamence​



Choice Specs -Salamence​



Landorus:
Rock Polish / Swords Dance -Jolteon, Salamence, Froslass​



Choice Scarf -Normally play around it (Froslass)​



Substitute + 3 Attacks -Jolteon, Salamence, Froslass​



Infernape:
Mixed Attacker -Salamence​



Nasty Plot / Swords Dance Booster -Salamence​



Choice Band -Salamence, Dragonite​



Volcarona:
Offensive Quiver Dance -Heatran, Dragonite (depending on Hidden Power) Salamence, Scizor​



Bulky Quiver Dance -Heatran, Salamence​



Chesto Rest -Heatran, Salamence​



Substitute -Heatran, Salamence​



Magnezone:
Substitute -Salamence, Dragonite, Heatran​



Choice Scarf -Salamence, Dragonite, Heatran​



Espeon:
Calm Mind -Scizor​



Salamence:
Dragon Dance -Salamence, Scizor​



Mixed -Salamence, Scizor​



Defensive -Salamence, Dragonite​



Hydreigon:
Offensive -Salamence, Scizor​



Choice Specs / Choice Scarf -Specs handled by Salamence, Scarf by Scizor​



Breloom:
Sub Seed -Salamence, Dragonite, Scizor​



Sub Punch -Salamence, Dragonite, Scizor​



Latias:
Calm Mind -Salamence, Scizor, Heatran​



Toxicroak:
Swords Dance -Jolteon, Scizor, Salamence​



Bulk Up -Jolteon, Scizor, Salamence​



Lucario:
Swords Dance -Dragonite​



Nasty Plot -Dragonite, Salamence​



Virizion:
Calm Mind -Scizor, Salamence​



Swords Dance -Scizor, Salamence, Jolteon​



Scrafty:
Dragon Dance -Froslass, Salamence, Dragonite​



Bulk Up -Froslass​



Venusaur:
Special Growth -Heatran​



Mixed Growth -Dragonite, Salamence​



SubSeed -Dragonite, Salamence​



Metagross:
Stealth Rock -Salamence, Dragonite, Heatran​



Choice Scarf / Choice Band -Salamence, Dragonite​



Agility -Salamence, Dragonite​



Mienshao:
All-Out Attacker -Scizor, Salamence​



Choice Scarf / Choice Band -Scizor​



Cloyster:
Shell Smash -Jolteon​



Mamoswine:
Physical Attacker - Jolteon outspeeds​



Darmanitan:
Choice Scarf - Salamence​



Tornadus:
Rain Abuser -Heatran walls, Salamence/Scizor​




As is seen, my greatest weakness is to Mamoswine. The extinct elephant's great STAB coverage make it a tough threat, made worse by the fact that four of my pokes are weak to its STAB attacks. Right now, only Jolteon can outspeed and OHKO with Hidden Power Grass, while Bullet Punch can revenge it. When I see my opponent has a Mamoswine, I cannot use Salamence as often as I would like, and therefore am at the mercy of normally controlled threats. I also sometimes wish for a spinner, as I have three Stealth Rocks weak pokes and the rest affected by Spikes. Here is an importable if you need to test the team.​




Importable:




HTML:
Frosty (Froslass) (F) @ Focus Sash

HTML:
[CENTER][CENTER]Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt

Dragon King (Salamence) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Brick Break

Furnace (Heatran) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 204 HP / 136 SDef / 168 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Roar
- Earth Power

Starmie (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Quick Attack
- Bullet Punch

Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 168 HP / 132 Atk / 208 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- ExtremeSpeed[/CENTER][/CENTER]
 
well....first of all i would say take out roar on heatran and add protect since your not using a stall team ._. ....second of all,without pursuit you cant trap lati@s,and other psychics....i guess dragonite is fine with extremespeed,and on mence,i think you should make it naive nature since you sometimes need the speed incase of scarf hydreigon/haxorus.....and take out thunder on jolteon and add thunderbolt...i get your idea...but its not really safe to be carrying thunder...i guess to just stick up with tbolt....and also stealth rocks really hurt mence and dnite...snd the rest is hit by spikes....so i recomend getting a spinner.....but i cant think how you could fit one D: ,well hope this helps :DDDD
 
Your team synergy is good, but you're running two pokes weak to stealth rock and the rest get seriously weathered down by stealth rocks and spikes. Since frosslass is a suicide lead you also are weak to repeated hits from terrakkion intenting to revenge kill, ESPECIALLY with hazards up. You need a spinner and a better resist for terrakkion, it may seem a wierd suggestion but claydol mops up those weaknesses well. I don't know the set for him but you could look it up on smogon.
 

dcae

plaza athénée
is a defending SCL Championis a Past SCL Champion
First of all, thanks for rating...

you might as well run a sub/roost set if you play dnite the way you say you do.
I would like to run SubRoost, but the problem is I lose my coverage. As Salamence and Dragonite are both my main sweepers, they need all the coverage they can get. Thanks for the rate.

well....first of all i would say take out roar on heatran and add protect since your not using a stall team ._. ....second of all,without pursuit you cant trap lati@s,and other psychics....i guess dragonite is fine with extremespeed,and on mence,i think you should make it naive nature since you sometimes need the speed incase of scarf hydreigon/haxorus.....and take out thunder on jolteon and add thunderbolt...i get your idea...but its not really safe to be carrying thunder...i guess to just stick up with tbolt....and also stealth rocks really hurt mence and dnite...snd the rest is hit by spikes....so i recomend getting a spinner.....but i cant think how you could fit one D: ,well hope this helps :DDDD
I used Protect previously, but I now use Roar because without it, set-up sweepers or those using Subs will devastate me. Roar is especially helpful against Volca and Dragonites lacking a ground move, who cannot be revenged by any other pokes. Naughty nature guarantees a 2HKO against offensive Heatran, who tends to switch into the first Outrage not expecting much damage, but then being KOed. Same thing goes with Scizor, who will switch in and try to Bullet Punch. I haved used Naive previously, and I'll test it once again though. I think Thunder should go, after losing 3 straight games due to untimely misses and parahax >.>. I honestly have no idea where the spinner should go on the team. Starmie adds to my Electric weakness, I won't use Forretress, Donphan is Water weak, etc. And I can't figure a slot for it though. Thanks for rating.

Your team synergy is good, but you're running two pokes weak to stealth rock and the rest get seriously weathered down by stealth rocks and spikes. Since frosslass is a suicide lead you also are weak to repeated hits from terrakkion intenting to revenge kill, ESPECIALLY with hazards up. You need a spinner and a better resist for terrakkion, it may seem a wierd suggestion but claydol mops up those weaknesses well. I don't know the set for him but you could look it up on smogon.
I completely agree with your opinion about the spinner. Claydol unfortunately has that huge Water weakness easily taken advantage of by Rain teams. I'll test it though. About Terrakion. I can work my way around all the variants. Scarfed ones are handled by Dragonite, as they generally use Close Combat. All other versions are either revenged by Salamence or Scizor. Honestly, though, I normally play around them in games. If their user is smart, and predict correctly, I send in Scizor to kill it. Thanks for the rate.
 
just a little nitpick but i dont think those little 40 HP EV's will do much for Jolteon, i would transfer some to speed to outspeed Adamant DNite after 1 DD to potentially break its Multiscale or after its multiscale is broken im pretty sure Specs Thunder OHKO's
 

Jukain

!_!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Froslass is the problem on your team, the only one. Your major problem is the lack of a Rapid Spinner. Therefore, I would like to suggest Forretress for Spiking and Toxic Spiking duties.
Forretress @ Leftovers
Relaxed
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Volt Switch
No time for a more in-depth rate, but GL!
 
I've been testing this team, and it is awesome to say the least. This team manages wins even when I play poorly, but I have run into a problem that isn't on your threat list.

How do you deal with standard Gliscor? Salamence and Dragonite can switch in on the Earthquake, but Ice Fang kills them and they don't do much damage in return. Frosslass is usually dead after spikes are down, and it can't switch in on Earthquake anyway. The rest of the team is handled by Earthquake.

I'm trying to figure out what to replace, but most of your team works so well the way it is. I've switch HP grass for Ice on Jolteon and put HP grass on Heatran instead of Earth Power. It's helped a little, but I'm wondering how you approach the problem.
 

dcae

plaza athénée
is a defending SCL Championis a Past SCL Champion
just a little nitpick but i dont think those little 40 HP EV's will do much for Jolteon, i would transfer some to speed to outspeed Adamant DNite after 1 DD to potentially break its Multiscale or after its multiscale is broken im pretty sure Specs Thunder OHKO's
The 40 HP EVs actually allow me to hit a hazard friendly number, but I think it wouldn't hurt to put them back into speed. I chose to take Thunder out due to it missing a lot recently. Thanks for the rate :D.

Froslass is the problem on your team, the only one. Your major problem is the lack of a Rapid Spinner. Therefore, I would like to suggest Forretress for Spiking and Toxic Spiking duties.
Forretress @ Leftovers
Relaxed
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Volt Switch
No time for a more in-depth rate, but GL!
Thanks for the rate. Froslass is an awesome lead due to its excellent speed and Spikes + Spinblock. It is a suicide lead however, so I normally KO an opponent before dying. Taunt is what makes it amazing, shutting down Baton Pass teams. I have used Forretress before, but I despise it due to it slowing down the pace of the game and generally proving set up fodder. I will test it out, as my team requires Rapid Spin now. Once again, thanks for the rate.


UPDATE: I have thoroughly tested Forretress and decided not to replace Froslass, though Forretress did very well as a hazard setter, I didn't like the way it was set up fodder, despite replacing Volt Switch with Gyro Ball. I also miss Froslass' taunts. I still need a spinner...

I've been testing this team, and it is awesome to say the least. This team manages wins even when I play poorly, but I have run into a problem that isn't on your threat list.

How do you deal with standard Gliscor? Salamence and Dragonite can switch in on the Earthquake, but Ice Fang kills them and they don't do much damage in return. Frosslass is usually dead after spikes are down, and it can't switch in on Earthquake anyway. The rest of the team is handled by Earthquake.

I'm trying to figure out what to replace, but most of your team works so well the way it is. I've switch HP grass for Ice on Jolteon and put HP grass on Heatran instead of Earth Power. It's helped a little, but I'm wondering how you approach the problem.
I'm glad you're testing the team and finding it works really well :D. As for standard Gliscor, that is a pretty big problem for me defensively. This was where Slowbro was a great poke for my team. I generally preserve Froslass if I spot a Gliscor. Also, at the beginning, while Taunting and Destiny Bonding, I tend to pull a KO on Ice weak pokes such as Haxorus and Sawsbuck. Once Froslass disposed, though, I boost up Dragonite. At +1, it will 2HKO Gliscor. This allows me to defeat it, though Dragonite will take up to 60% damage in return and leaving it in range for priority attacks from Lucario or Scizor. I really like HP Grass on Jolteon, as I did test HP Ice previously. It might work for you, but this HP Grass 2HKOs standard SpD TTar after 2 layers of Spikes, and OHKOs Gastro, the incredibly annoying Quagsire, and Mamoswine. The utility of Earth Power on Heatran is, I admit, reserved to OHKOing Heatran without an intact Balloon, so I will test HP Ice on Heatran, and some more speed to take out Gliscor. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
It doesn't surprise me that your greatest fear would have Ice/Ground coverage, but I also think Dragon/Ground and QuakeEdge is just as daunting for your team. With Froslass dead most of the times, A simple Dragonite of DD/Outrage/EQ/ES could cause you major problems late game. Needless to say Mamoswine is also a problem and Rock Ground coverage will have you on the back foot all day long. A sure fire fix would be simply turning your Heatran into an offensive variant with Air Balloon and a set of SR/FB/EP/HP Ice. This way you remove most of your threats, bar QuakeEdge.

Another glaring weakness is the lack of anything to just take a hit. Specs Latios on the switchin after a kill will easily revenge anyone on this team due to Scizor lacking any bulk what so ever. I personally would change Scizor for an Iron Plate variant with SD/Roost/BP/U-turn. It still keeps that offensive pressure but has the bulk to take some hard hitting attacks that your team so desperately lacks.

On final thing is I think your synergy is really being let down by the dual Dragon/Flying on your team, especially when they fulfill the same role of cleaning up late game. Honestly I think that they in tandem cause more problems than they solve. Personally running something like Breloom who can handle the QuakeEdge combo would seem beneficial.
 

New World Order

Licks Toads
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Hi, got the request, first things first, Focus Sash is an awful item for many reasons. Not only is there sand and Stealth Rock everywhere, but suicide leads also no longer work due to Team Preview. Just use Leftovers instead on Froslass. Earth Power is pretty useless on Heatran since you can't touch Air Balloon Heatran still. Toxic allows Heatran to cripple the likes of Latias and Latios or whatever else wants to switch in. Also, go with 248 HP / 100 SpD / 160 Spe to outspeed Jolly SD Scizor. Dragon Claw over Brick Break on Salamence means you have a STAB to spam early on. Being locked into Outrage is never a good thing. Brick Break only gives you more power against Chansey and Air Balloon Heatran, the first of whom you can hit with Outrage instead, and the second which you can pop the Balloon with Dragon Claw then KO with Earthquake later. Use a Naive nature so you don't get outsped by Jolly Haxorus of all things.

Finally, your team is severely crippled by entry hazards. Froslass, Salamence, and Dragonite are all Stealth Rock weak, with Dragonite being severely crippled by it. Scizor is completely shut down by Spikes. A Rapid Spinner is pretty much an absolute must. Jolteon is easily the most replaceable member of the team, and an offensive Starmie[/b] fits the bill perfectly. It can Rapid Spin, can take advantage of your entry hazards to go on a sweep of its own, and can revenge kill annoying threats such as Landorus should Froslass be outsped by Choice Scarf/ Rock Polish and taken out with Stone Edge. You've already got Dragonite to deal with Rotom-W, so it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

GL
Leftovers>Focus Sash on Froslass
pros: Focus Sash sucks
cons: none

Toxic>Earth Power+new EVs on Heatran
pros: checks Latii twins better, outspeeds all Scizor
cons: I guess you're now walled by all Heatran instead of just Air Balloon Heatran (not that you'd win anyway)

Dragon Claw>Brick Break+Naive>Naughty on Salamence
pros: no longer locked into Outrage early game, not outsped by other base 100s
cons: can't hit Air Balloon Heatrans anymore, slightly less power

Starmie>Jolteon
pros: Rapid Spin Rapid Spin Rapid Spin
cons: doesn't matter, you need Rapid Spin

Froslass (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs : 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Destiny Bond
- Spikes
- Taunt

Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs : 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Claw

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SpD / 160 Spe
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Lava Plume
- Toxic

Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
 
Hey there dcae, ive been trying this team out and so far it has worked great, within my first 6 battles i won them all and hit a 1243 rating before losing 2. I noticed when playing that the biggest threat was sandstorm teams, as with stealth rocks up and residual sandstorm damage, it severely cripples both mence's and dragonite's sweeping abilities. I found them getting wrecked by scizor bullet punches on revenge kills. Froslass worked very well for me to be honest, on one occasion i took out a haxorus with ice beam after laying spikes, killed a gliscor, and then destiny bonded a latias. it was great!
I would say the biggest weak link on the team is jolteon, i get absolutely nothing out of him every game as ground types run rampant and jolteon is fairly easy to kill. I think fitting a spinner in there would help greatly, i currently am going to try out a hitmontop spinner just to see how he works out in clearing SR.
But regardless, great team, it is very fun to use!
 

dcae

plaza athénée
is a defending SCL Championis a Past SCL Champion
It doesn't surprise me that your greatest fear would have Ice/Ground coverage, but I also think Dragon/Ground and QuakeEdge is just as daunting for your team. With Froslass dead most of the times, A simple Dragonite of DD/Outrage/EQ/ES could cause you major problems late game. Needless to say Mamoswine is also a problem and Rock Ground coverage will have you on the back foot all day long. A sure fire fix would be simply turning your Heatran into an offensive variant with Air Balloon and a set of SR/FB/EP/HP Ice. This way you remove most of your threats, bar QuakeEdge.

Another glaring weakness is the lack of anything to just take a hit. Specs Latios on the switchin after a kill will easily revenge anyone on this team due to Scizor lacking any bulk what so ever. I personally would change Scizor for an Iron Plate variant with SD/Roost/BP/U-turn. It still keeps that offensive pressure but has the bulk to take some hard hitting attacks that your team so desperately lacks.

On final thing is I think your synergy is really being let down by the dual Dragon/Flying on your team, especially when they fulfill the same role of cleaning up late game. Honestly I think that they in tandem cause more problems than they solve. Personally running something like Breloom who can handle the QuakeEdge combo would seem beneficial.
Hey, thanks a lot for rating. I do acknowledge my general lack of resistances. One may say this team is weak, but lots of prediction is required to use it effectively. The offensive Heatran is an idea I've been thinking about, but seeing a rater suggest it makes me want to test it, so thanks for that. Also, the EdgeQuake coverage does not worry me nearly as much as Ice/Ground, though I admit a lack of solid resistance. The two dragons might seem epic failures, but the roles they fill are far more different than they appear. Salamence functions more as an all powerful revenge killer while Dragonite is the bulky set upper that sweeps teams. I will test Breloom however, as it will provide something to switch into status. Scizor I am happy with as of now, so I am not so inclined to modify the winning formula. Thanks for the rate though.

Hi, got the request, first things first, Focus Sash is an awful item for many reasons. Not only is there sand and Stealth Rock everywhere, but suicide leads also no longer work due to Team Preview. Just use Leftovers instead on Froslass. Earth Power is pretty useless on Heatran since you can't touch Air Balloon Heatran still. Toxic allows Heatran to cripple the likes of Latias and Latios or whatever else wants to switch in. Also, go with 248 HP / 100 SpD / 160 Spe to outspeed Jolly SD Scizor. Dragon Claw over Brick Break on Salamence means you have a STAB to spam early on. Being locked into Outrage is never a good thing. Brick Break only gives you more power against Chansey and Air Balloon Heatran, the first of whom you can hit with Outrage instead, and the second which you can pop the Balloon with Dragon Claw then KO with Earthquake later. Use a Naive nature so you don't get outsped by Jolly Haxorus of all things.

Finally, your team is severely crippled by entry hazards. Froslass, Salamence, and Dragonite are all Stealth Rock weak, with Dragonite being severely crippled by it. Scizor is completely shut down by Spikes. A Rapid Spinner is pretty much an absolute must. Jolteon is easily the most replaceable member of the team, and an offensive Starmie[/b] fits the bill perfectly. It can Rapid Spin, can take advantage of your entry hazards to go on a sweep of its own, and can revenge kill annoying threats such as Landorus should Froslass be outsped by Choice Scarf/ Rock Polish and taken out with Stone Edge. You've already got Dragonite to deal with Rotom-W, so it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

GL
Leftovers>Focus Sash on Froslass
pros: Focus Sash sucks
cons: none

Toxic>Earth Power+new EVs on Heatran
pros: checks Latii twins better, outspeeds all Scizor
cons: I guess you're now walled by all Heatran instead of just Air Balloon Heatran (not that you'd win anyway)

Dragon Claw>Brick Break+Naive>Naughty on Salamence
pros: no longer locked into Outrage early game, not outsped by other base 100s
cons: can't hit Air Balloon Heatrans anymore, slightly less power

Starmie>Jolteon
pros: Rapid Spin Rapid Spin Rapid Spin
cons: doesn't matter, you need Rapid Spin

Froslass (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs : 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Destiny Bond
- Spikes
- Taunt

Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs : 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Claw

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SpD / 160 Spe
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Lava Plume
- Toxic

Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin


Thanks for rating NWO. I must disagree with your opinion on Focus Sash. Without it, Froslass has much slimmer survival capacities, as she sports next to no bulk. At least Focus Sash allows survival against non Sand teams. I have always had problems with opposing Heatran using Air Balloon if Heatran is switched in, so I'll try out Toxic in its place. I definitely agree about the spinner, it has recently become a huge source of problems. Starmie is a good idea, giving excellent speed with a means to run through Mamoswine and Gliscor. I was wondering if Rest would function well instead of Ice Beam, though, because it allows to heal off Life Orb damage and switch out to lose Sleep status. I will miss Jolteon's Volt Switch though, even if it is smarter to remove it. I will update my RMT after a bit of testing. Thanks for the rate.

Hey there dcae, ive been trying this team out and so far it has worked great, within my first 6 battles i won them all and hit a 1243 rating before losing 2. I noticed when playing that the biggest threat was sandstorm teams, as with stealth rocks up and residual sandstorm damage, it severely cripples both mence's and dragonite's sweeping abilities. I found them getting wrecked by scizor bullet punches on revenge kills. Froslass worked very well for me to be honest, on one occasion i took out a haxorus with ice beam after laying spikes, killed a gliscor, and then destiny bonded a latias. it was great!
I would say the biggest weak link on the team is jolteon, i get absolutely nothing out of him every game as ground types run rampant and jolteon is fairly easy to kill. I think fitting a spinner in there would help greatly, i currently am going to try out a hitmontop spinner just to see how he works out in clearing SR.
But regardless, great team, it is very fun to use!
Hey Serperior xD. Thanks for rating the team and testing it out. Sand teams are a source of hatred, I agree. You forgot to mention they negate Froslass' Focus Sash. Jolteon has been decently useful for me, with the Volturn combo. I must agree that Starmie is a better replacement though. It covers my other threats too. I'll test a defensive Hitmontop to cover EdgeQuake, but the presence of a special attacker is vital to the success of breaking through common defensive walls such as Skarmory or Gliscor. Thanks.


Why not run fire fang over fire blast on Mence to get the most out of your Moxie boosts?
Fire Blast is there for the sole reason of breaking through Forretress and Skarmory especially.
 
Had the most epic match ive ever witnessed with this team and can confirm that fire blast was absolutely necessary to break through the opponents skarmory, so that is some battle experience to back up its validity.
Now to revoke some of my first statements, sandstorm teams arent so much of an issue, its just that the biggest threats are usually carried with them. After testing some more, air balloon heatrans are a real pain in the ass and are really the only prime threat. However, i implemented a starmie on the team an it has performed wonders in countering said heatran as well as rapid spinning away hazards. Not to mention it outspeeds most unscarfed pokemon in the tier and provides BoltBeam coverage. Id definitely drop jolteon for starmie.
 
Just a minor nitpick, definetaly run HP Ice over earthpower on Heatran. Ironically, opposing Air Ballon Heatran are going to completely wall you otherwise. This also has the benefit of hitting Gliscor switch ins.
 

dcae

plaza athénée
is a defending SCL Championis a Past SCL Champion
Just a minor nitpick, definetaly run HP Ice over earthpower on Heatran. Ironically, opposing Air Ballon Heatran are going to completely wall you otherwise. This also has the benefit of hitting Gliscor switch ins.
Thanks, I will definitely change that. All Earth Power does is hit Tentacruel hard, along with Air Balloon popped Heatran. Gliscor is more trouble.
 

dcae

plaza athénée
is a defending SCL Championis a Past SCL Champion
Bump I got 1st :), thanks for the help from all the people who allowed me to improve my team and finally reach 1st. Thanks so much xD.
 
I suggest putting a +speed nature on your salamence because with a +speed nature like naive you can stop dragonites from setting up on you.

Great team btw. I like that you are using froslass
 

Sayonara

don't forget
Hey,

This is a pretty cool team you've got here. Pursuit > Quick Attack is a change I'd recommend, since the latter, even with a Technician boost, won't be doing too much damage anyways. Pursuit is reliable to trap Latios, Latias, Gengar, Reuniclus and other threats, which could be problematic if they stayed alive during the battle. You should also be using a 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef EV spread for Dragonite, since you are only packing offensive moves, and you're not using Roost, which means extra bulk is irrelevant. I think Scarf Terrakion might be a problem, since there isn't really anyone who appreciates taking hits. Skarmory > Froslass is a change I'd recommend, since the latter is weak to Stealth Rock and is pretty much just a suicide lead. Skarmory will be useful for the whole match, and its synergy is amazing with Heatran, who can come in on fire moves directed towards Skarm. So, without further ado, here is the set.
@

Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
~ Spikes
~ Roost
~ Whirlwind
~ Brave Bird


Spikes adds pressure to Volt-Turn teams, and taking a toll on your opponent's team. Roost is an automatic 50% recovery, which is important to keep Skarmory healthy. Whirlwind prevents setting up, and can phaze out your opponent for them to get hit by hazards. Brave Bird goes in the final slot, to take out Breloom and Virizion, mostly, as well as not being Taunt bait. I hope my rate will be helpful, and good luck! Also, congrats on your #1 Peak!

~ Expert Physics
 
Nice team you've got there! Even so, one minor nitpick: Have you tried Aerial Ace instead of QA on Scizor? It may help a lot when it comes to beating Fighting types, and coming as a shock to opponents. Anyways, good luck!
 
Nice team you've got there! Even so, one minor nitpick: Have you tried Aerial Ace instead of QA on Scizor? It may help a lot when it comes to beating Fighting types, and coming as a shock to opponents. Anyways, good luck!
I'd actually suggest Aerial Ace over Superpower because as he says, he doesn't use Superpower that much. I have found QA to be suprisingly useful by taking a large amount off of Volcarona or Infernape.
 

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