1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Shadow's Soul [Peaked @ 1903 on PS]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Zentrius, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. Zentrius

    Zentrius

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    Shadow's Soul

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Team Building

    Show Hide
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I wanted to make a team around Lucario and Gotithelle: SD Lucario and SpecsThelle. They both lure both of each others counters amazingly well. Gotithelle kills Gliscor, Tentacruel, Skarmory and cripples Quagsire with Trick. Lucario murders Ferrothorn, Heatran, Tyranitar and other things.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    Since the duo has troubles with the Lati twins, specially Latias, I decided to go with Tyranitar, the infamous Lati@s lure. Also, the residual damage from sand helps tremendously for a Lucario sweep.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
    Landorus' as a revenge killer is just lovely. Just slap a Scarf on it en you eventually are going to revenge kill a good amount of the metage. It serves me as an offensive pivot.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
    Here comes the physicall wall. Skarmory walls basically every physicall mon in the tier but Darmanitan, Victini and Infernape, but they all are handled by Landorus. Skarmory sets up Spikes and phazes away Set-up sweepers, and it stops Dragonite, Haxorus and Salamence cold.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Then I realised that I had no spinner. I needed to solve this, and Xatu came in. I hate playing with this thing, because a mispredict can cost me the battle.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I don't know why shit like this always happens to me: I don't have a water resist. That was dumb as fuck, because Politoed is as common as ever. Dropped Xatu for Starmie as a reliable spinner and a reliable Politoed counter.


    A closer look

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Sand Stream | 236 HP / 96 Atk / 176 SDef | Brave Nature
    Stealth Rock - Stone Edge - Pursuit - Fire Blast


    • What does it do?
      Tyranitar does what it basically does in every sand team: sets up the rocks we all love, lures the likes of Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Forretress with Fire Blast and walls Latios to hell and back. Tyranitar also helps me in beating Volcarona, who otherwiser sweeps me straight up with only one Quiver Dance. Tyranitar also is a solid answer to basically any kind of Ninetales, and then pursuit it to death to weaken it and then damaging it with residual damage.

      Once Tyranitar has put the rocks up, it kind of serves as a status absorber. This is important, since Spore is a terrifying move in practice and my whole teams hates it but Starmie, so I usually take the Spore with Tyranitar.
    - - - - - - - - -


    • Possible Changes?
      Yes, Choice Band. This set doesn't help me at all with CM Latias (The Monoatacker with Dragon Pulse alone isn't a problem with Lucario, but the ones with Hp Fire and Surf are a pain to face), but If I do this then I would have to change Landorus' set to a defensive one to have the rocks on my side.

    [​IMG]
    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Justified | 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def | Adamant Nature
    Swords Dance - Close Combat - Crunch - Bullet Punch


    • What does it do?
      Easy: Sweep. Lucario's counters at +2 depends on the move set. With this moveset, it's walled hard by Dragonite and Gliscor. But who gives a shit about them. Lucario kills Gengar, Terrakion, Scizor, Heatran, Tyranitar, Reuniclus, Ferrothorn, JELLICENT and some random things with the proper move. It can switch in on Scizor with proper prediction, it can switch in easily on Ferrothorn. This is actually kind of important, since most Rain Teams I have faced were swept by this thing. Bullet Punch over ES for Terrakion and Gengar mainly, and it serves me as a STAB priority move. There are time when I just miss so much ES though. To put things straight, Lucario 2HKOs every pokemon in existence under UBER. It even 2HKOs some uber mons. That's fucking terrifying.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    • Possible Changes?
      There are times where I just need ExtremeSpeed to pull out a sweep. Tornadus-T isn't KO'd by a +2 Bullet Punch, but now it's banned so it doesn't really care. Thundurus though resists Bullet Punch and sweeps me with the Agility set. With Extreme Speed though, I kill it easily.
      Basically, it goes like this: I replace ES with Crunch and Jellicent walls most of my team (though I can cripple it with trick from Telle), or I don't touch anything and try my best at getting Thundurus down.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
    Intimidate | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd | Naive Nature
    U-Turn - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Hidden Power [Ice]


    • What does it do?
      Revenge Kill stuff that neither Lucario or Gothitelle can kill, that's what it does. Outspeeds Thundurus and OHKOs it with Stone Edge. MIsses do suck though. This thing can switch into Terrakion with little fear unless Landorus hurt, the opposing Terrakion is band and goes for Stone Edge, which is unlikely. Landorus can revenge kill Jirachi, Gliscor, Toxicroak, Heatran and wreck Celebi with ease, mons that are threats depending on the moveset. Landorus does a pretty good job as a lead in front of Politoed/Ninetales, scouting the opponent's move or straight up kill Ninetales as quickly as possible. Actually, it does a pretty good job againts sun and rain in general, revenge killing most abusers in each weather.

    - - - - - - - - -


    • Possible Changes?
      See Tyranitar's Possible Changes part.

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Sturdy | 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd | Impish Nature
    Spikes - Whirlwind - Drill Peck - Roost


    • What does it do?
      Wall 90% of the physicall atackers you could think of. Skarmory has been a complete stop to most physicall things since GSC, and it walls them cold. Dragonite, Haxorus, Salamence (Fuck Fire Blast), Weavile, Breloom, Sand Force Landorus, Landorus-T. They all are walled by Skarmory, unless the opponent gets really lucky and crits me with like, Dragonite's Fire Punch @ +1. Also, Skarmory beats Amoonguss who lack Hidden Power [Fire] quite easily, a really threatening mon well played (And even then, I think HP Fire doesn't even make 40% of damage, so I can stall it to death unless it crist me, something that wouldn't be rare).

      Skarmory puts up the spikes if my opponent is dumb and leaves something that gets walled by it in front of me, or either if I play mind games with Whirlwind. I love those kinds of games. Speaking of Whirlwind, phazes away set-up sweepers and fucks up Smeargle/Ninjask right up their ases.

    - - - - - - - - - -​



    • Possible Changes?
      At the moment, I was tempting in changing Drill Peck for Stealth Rocks in case Tyranitar gets a Choice Band, but that would make me Taunt-bait. I think I'll do this if I make a BandTar though.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure | 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd | Timid Nature
    Rapid Spin | Thunderbolt | Recover | Scald


    • What does it do?
      Spin and counter Politoed, basically. Offensive Starmie in sand is kind of stupid and redundant so I wanted a bulky variant. Thunderbolt 2HKOs any Politoed and Scald does a pretty big chunk of damage to Thundurus-T switch in. If I predict correctly the Ferrothorn switch in, I go to Lucario and start to sweep. Starmie is also a great status absorber, with Natural Cure, it doesn't care about status.

      Starmie does a pretty good job to most spinblockers strangely enough. It beats Jellicent one-on-one unless it has the rare Shadow Ball. The only one that's troubling is Gengar but Gengar is revenge killed by Landorus and Lucario. Starmie kills most of the Hazards setters like Forretress, Skarmory and Hippowdon.

    - - - - - - - -​



    • Possible Changes?
      I was thinking of Ice Beam -> Thunderbolt to make sure Landorus-T doesn't put the rocks up, but that was kind of dumb since Starmie primary job besides spinning is to counter most variants of Politoed, so Thunderbolt stays in.

    [​IMG]
    Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
    Shadow Tag | 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd | Modest Nature
    Psychic - Thunderbolt - Hidden Power [Ice]


    • What does it do?
      Gotithelle's trapping abilities work just amazing with this team, killing basically killing every Landorus-T and Lucario counters in existance. It Kills Amoonguss, Hippowdon, Quagsire, Gliscor (unless Gothitelle is hurt, which isn't likely since you shouldn't play Gotithelle againts anything but something you want to make sure to eliminate), cripples Jellicent, Chansey, Blissey, Ferrothorn and Gastrodon. Gotithelle kills defensive variants of Politoed one-on-one, this is also important to notice.

      Unfortunately Gotithelle only gets a kill before it gets pursuited from Tyranitar or Scizor, but that means she has done her job and then switch in into Lucario. Switching Lucario in choice locked Scizor is also very important, since most of the time I just sweep teams with that tactic.

    - - - - - - - - -


    • Possible Changes?
      Nothing, really. Gothitelle is just fine as it is right now.

    A final look

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I'm a Slut | taylor swift | Hotoshimi
    IMPORTABLE:
    Show Hide
    Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 236 HP / 96 Atk / 176 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast

    Lucario (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Close Combat
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch

    Landorus (Landorus-T) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Drill Peck
    - Roost
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Scald

    Gothitelle (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Psychic
    - Trick
  2. Zentrius

    Zentrius

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    Standard OU Offensive Threats

    Show Hide
    [​IMG] Abomasnow:
    • Mixed Attacker - This is actually kind of dangerous now that I think about it. Nothing can switch into it, but Lucario cah kill it with Close Combat.
    • Choice Scarf - Same, but this is easier.
    [​IMG] Alakazam:
    • Focus Sash - Something dies to this, but it's not a problem with Landorus-T and Lucario.
    • Offensive Calm Mind - Switch Landorus in as they Calm Mind. gg
    [​IMG] Azelf:
    • Lead - Always lead with Landorus and bring Tyranitar for the residual damage.
    • Dual Screens - ^
    • Nasty Plot - ^
    • Choice Band - ^
    [​IMG] Azumarill:
    • Choice Band - Skarmory
    [​IMG] Breloom:
    • Physical Attacker - Let something take the Spore, preferably Tyranitar, and then switch into Skarmory and Drill Peck
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf - Skarmory
    • Bulk Up - ^^
    • Sub Punch - ^^^
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Tinkerbell - Landorus, Tyranitar
    • Nasty Plot Sweeper - Landorus
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf - Go to Tyranitar if it's scarf'd, or sac something againts the specs and then go to Landorus.
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Shell Smash - Skarmory
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr:
    • Bulk Up - Skarmory phazes it away, Gothitelle annihilates it
    • Flame Orb + 3 Attacks - A bitch to handle with drain punch, but Gothitelle kills
    [​IMG] Darmanitan:
    • Choice Scarf / Band - Scarf, Landorus. Banded is really difficult to switch into though. Go to Starmie and just pray he goes for anything but U-Turn. Thank god nobody uses it.
    • Life Orb - Landorus
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Fast Spiker - Set up bait for Lucario
    [​IMG] Dragonite:
    • Dragon Dance - Skarmory, RK with Landorus if MS is broken
    • Choice Band - Skarmory, Landorus
    • Mixed - Landorus RK kills, but it will probably get a kill
    • Parashuffler - Landorus RK
    • Rain Abuse - ^
    [​IMG] Dugtrio:
    • Focus Sash - If you have Tyranitar and this thing is alive, don't ever do something with Tyranitar and switch right away to Skarm or Lando
    • Choice Band - ^
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Agility - Starmie resists everything but the rare Grass Knot
    • Choice Specs - Starmie does just fine
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Baton Pass - I lose to baton pass gg.
    • Dual Screens - Lead with Landorus
    [​IMG] Garchomp:
    • Swords Dance - Skarm, RK with Lando
    • Choice Band - Skarm, RK with Lando
    • Choice Scarf - Skarm
    [​IMG] Gengar:
    • Substitute + Disable / Pain Split - Really annoying. Considering in going for a simple set of Psychich, Thunderbolt, Scald and rapid spin on Starmie just for this thing, but it eventually goes down to Lucario's BP, so it isn't that much of a deal
    [​IMG] Gorebyss:
    • SmashPass - Stone Edge from Tyranitar OHKO's I think, and dies to sand
    • Shell Smash Sweeper - Does this even exist in OU?
    [​IMG] Gothitelle:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Let something get trapped, the Pursuit with Tyranitar
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance - Skarmory, if it has taunt, RK with Landorus
    • Choice Band - Skarm
    • Choice Scarf - Skarm
    [​IMG] Haxorus:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Skarm
    • Dragon Dance - Skarm
    • Swords Dance - Skarmory is going to get hurt pretty bad, but most of the team RKs
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Tyranitar, Landorus
    • Air Balloon - Tyranitar or Lucario
    [​IMG] Hydreigon:
    • Mixed Attacker - Switch into Tyranitar on a random special attack, then go to Lando for the Superpower and U-turn away
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - Really, prediction is key. Switch in something that you feel it could work
    • Substitute - U-Turn breaks de sub, then sac something and go to Landorus again
    • Expert Belt - ^
    [​IMG] Infernape:
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf - Starmie
    • Mixed Attacker - Starmie
    • Nasty Plot / Swords Dance booster - Starmie, or Landorus as it SD/NP
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind / Substitute + 3 Attacks - Landorus RK, since it survives a +1 Water Pulse
    • Wish + Calm Mind - ^
    • Expert Belt - Landorus RK, but it can switch in. Skarmory is the best bet, but Thunderbolt sucks
    • Choice Scarf - Skarmory, but be careful with trick. If I feel that he's gonna trick, then I'll switch in Lando
    [​IMG] Keldeo:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Starmie walls the scarf, but HP Ghost/Dark is horrible
    • Calm Mind - Starmie walls this set
    [​IMG] Kingdra:
    • Choice Specs - I don't have any reliable switch in, so my best bet is to sack something and then kill it with something. Glad it's rare
    • Rain Dance -
    • Dragon Dance -
    [​IMG] Kyurem:
    • Choice - Tyranitar, however, be careful with Focus Blast
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks -
    • Substitute + Roost - A huge bitch. If it subs on something, we are losing 3-4 mons to this thing. I normally U-turn with Landorus and then Lucario comes in on the Ice Beam and kills it
    [​IMG] Kyurem-B:
    • Substitute - Always go to Landorus, skarmory is a shaky counter
    • Substitute + Dragon Tail - Whirlwind it
    • Choice Band - Landorus, if it uses anything but Fusion Bolt, go to Skarmory
    • Mixed - Tyranitar survives a Outrage and kills with Stone Edge
    • Choice Scarf - Same as choice band, really
    [​IMG] Landorus:
    • Rock Polish / Swords Dance - Skarm
    • Special Attacker- If it has a RP boost, HOPE that Starmie survives a Earth Power otherwise were in for big trouble
    • Choice Scarf - Skarm
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - Skarm
    [​IMG] Landorus-T:
    • Stealth Rock - Starmie RK, Skarmory walls it
    • Swords Dance / Rock Polish - Landorus kills it with HP Ice, Skarmory walls the RP one
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - Skarm
    • Gravity - Landorus with HP Ice
    • Choice Scarf - Skarm
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Life Orb - Tyranitar can do a goo chunk to it, but if it has Recover, it's annoying. If you have Lucario in front of something that's choice locked, go ALWAYS for Crunch just for this thing
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - Tyranitar, this is easier
    • Calm Mind - The monoattacker one is no problem, however the variants with Surf or HP Fire can be a pain to face. Do the same thing with Lucario.
    [​IMG] Latios:
    • Life Orb / Expert Belt - Tyranitar
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Tyranitar
    • Calm Mind - Tyranitar
    [​IMG] Lucario:
    • Swords Dance - Skarm. Landorus can't come in on Ice Punch variants, but is still a solid check
    [​IMG] Magnezone:
    • Substitute - Don't ever do something with Skarmory with this thing alive, switch right away to Landorus, or Lucario if you ARE SURE it isn't scarf'd
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - ^
    [​IMG] Mamoswine:
    • Physical Attacker - Skarm
    • Focus Sash + Endeavor - Skarm
    [​IMG] Meloetta:
    • Relic Song Mixed Attacker - The sleep is annoying, but Landorus does fine
    • Calm Mind + 3 Attacks / Substitute - This is easier, Tyranitar can wall it without Focus Blast
    [​IMG] Metagross:
    • Stealth Rock - Skarm
    • Choice Scarf / Band - Skarm
    • Agility - Skarm
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stealth Rock - Tyranitar kills
    • Baton Pass - I lose gg
    • Nasty Plot - Tyranitar can kill if it's unboosted, otherwise, Landorus
    [​IMG] Mienshao:
    • All-Out Attacker - Skarm. Landorus could work, but HP Ice sucks
    • Choice Scarf / Band - Skarm, Landorus
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Special Attacker - Tyranitar
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - Starmie, but if it has HP Grass it's really annoying
    • 3 Attacks - Starmie
    [​IMG] Reuniclus:
    • Offensive Trick Room- Don't let it set up Trick room, otherwise we are going to get killed a couple of things. Lucario kills with Crunch + BP
    • Calm Mind - Lucario, you can lure it with Lando
    [​IMG] Rotom-C:
    • Support - Who uses this?
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Now, this is dangerous. I don't have a reliable switch, so it's hard. It is a threat, but nobody uses it lol.
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Support - I'm pretty sure CC kills it
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Predict between Lando and Starmie
    [​IMG] Salamence:
    • Dragon Dance - Skarm
    • Mixed - Lando rk
    • Choice Scarf / Band - Skarm
    [​IMG] Scizor:
    • Choice Band - Skarm, Landorus
    • Swords Dance - Skarm, Landorus
    • Bulky Swords Dance - Skarm, Landorus
    [​IMG] Scrafty:
    • Dragon Dance - Skarm
    • Bulk Up - Skarm
    [​IMG] Sharpedo:
    • Speed Boost - Physicall ones are dealt by skarm, but the mixed ones are really powerful.
    [​IMG] Smeargle:
    • Hazard Lead - Lead with Landorus and U-Turn, then bring Tyranitar
    • Baton Pass - If this leads, then I have a chance againts baton pass teams. U-Turn out and go to Tyranitar to kill it
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Life Orb - Tyranitar doesn't like Hydro Pump, but if I switch into anything but HP, Starmie is done
    • Choice Specs - ^
    [​IMG] Stoutland:
    • Choice Band - Skarm
    • Non Choice - Skarm
    [​IMG] Terrakion:
    • Substitute + Swords Dance / Salac Berry - Phaze t
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf- Landorus deals with both, skarm with the scarf and with a little luck, the banded too
    • Double Dance - Skarm
    [​IMG] Thundurus-T:
    • Nasty Plot - Landorus RK
    • Agility - This is so gross. I can't win againts it 60% of the time
    • Choice Scarf - Tyranitar and Landorus both work well with the synergi
    [​IMG] Toxicroak:
    • Swords Dance - Skarm
    • Bulk Up - Skarm
    • SubPunch - Skarm
    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Choice Band - Skarm, Lando
    • Choice Scarf - Skarm, Lando
    • MixTar - Landorus
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • Growth - I'll consider this a threat if I lose the weather, which tbh s unlikely
    [​IMG] Victini:
    • Choice Band / Scarf - The banded hurts, thankfully Landorus get's 2HOK'd before RK
    • Special Attacker - I have never in my life seen this before, so I don't know what I'd do
    [​IMG] Virizion:
    • Calm Mind - Trick it with Gotithelle. It may sound like a terrible idea, but you can lock it in Calm Mind and then kill it with Psychic
    • Swords Dance - Skarm
    [​IMG] Volcarona:
    • Offensive Quiver Dance - Our nemesis. Tyranitar survives a Bug Buzz @ +1, but if I miss Stone Edge, it's gg. Put the rocks up as soon as possible and just damage it with residual damage, really
    • Bulky Quiver Dance / Roost - This is easier, Lando RK
    • Chesto Rest - ^
    • Substitute - ^^^


    Standard OU Defensive Threats

    Show Hide
    [​IMG] Amoonguss:
    • Standard -
    [​IMG] Blissey:
    • Support -
    [​IMG] Bronzong:
    • Tank -
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Physically Defensive -
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Chansey:
    • Support -
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Utility -
    [​IMG] Cresselia:
    • Support -
    • Calm Mind -
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Calm Mind -
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    • Standard -
    [​IMG] Forretress:
    • Physically Defensive -
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    • Tank -
    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    • Substitute + Protect -
    • Britscor Stallbreaker -
    • Swords Dance
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Bulky Support -
    • Resttalk -
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Hippowdon:
    • Physical Tank -
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Jellicent:
    • Utility Counter -
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Support -
    • Reflect / Refresh + Calm Mind
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stallbreaker -
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Defensive -
    [​IMG] Porygon2:
    • Defensive -
    [​IMG] Quagsire:
    • Physically Defensive -
    [​IMG]-Rotom-H:
    • Support -
    • Choice Scarf -
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Support -
    [​IMG] Sableye:
    • Prankster -
    [​IMG] Skarmory:
    • Physically Defensive -
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Slowbro:
    • Tank -
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Rapid Spin -
    [​IMG] Tangrowth:
    • Defensive -
    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    • Substitute + Toxic -
    • Protect -
    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Vaporeon:
    • Rest Hydration -
    • Wish Support -
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • SubSeed -
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet:
    • Max Speed -
    • Bulky -
    [​IMG] Xatu:
    • Standard -
  3. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Hi, there

    Very solid team, there are very few changes that I would propose to Gothitelle, put Psychock> Psychic otherwise you can not trap Blissey, Chansey and kill them, while hitting Psychock physical defense you can. I also suggest Hidden Power Fire> Hidden Power Ice, otherwise you can not trap and kill Ferrothorn and Scizor, as the fourth move suggest Grass Knot, you need to hit Hippowdon essentially that with the support of Stealth Rock is knocked.

    At this point, since Gothitelle Jellicent frees you from the field, I propose to put Extremespeed> Crunch on Lucario, so after a Swords Dance can kill Thundurus-T and Keldeo, and although it is rare to find-Scarf Rotom-W, or otherwise Rotom-W with a speed higher than that of Adamant Lucario, Extremespeed is also better because Gothitelle Jellicent can trap and kill while Thundurus-T, Keldeo and Rotom-W Scarf, can not trap them and kill them because faster.

    Last thing, I would suggest you try Psychock> Thunderbolt on Starmie, so no risk of hitting Thundurus-T with Thunderbolt, and Psychock hit Tentacruel more effectively, but also hit Venusaur out of the sun, and passing in speed Gengar, even kill him, Thunderbolt gains that we can hit better Politoed, but against him I think that you can rely on Gothitelle and Pursuit Tyranitar. That is all.
    Good luck, with your team!

    tl;dr
    Show Hide

    Psychock > Psychic (for Gothitelle)
    Grass Knot (for Gothitelle)
    Hidden Power Fire > Hidden Power Ice (for Gothitelle)
    Extremespeed > Crunch (for Lucario)
    Psychock > Thunderbolt (for Starmie)
  4. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,883
    Hey there,

    I have a few moveslot issues I like to address. I believe that Tyranitar should be running crunch so that you have the option to crunch against opposing Celebi, Latias, Latios and sub/disable gengar that don't want to switch out and won't be KO'd by a pursuit. Additionally, relying on stone edge to hit Politoeds and other waters could definitely cost you the weather advantage and maybe the game as a result. Replacing Stealth rock with crunch and giving Skarmory Stealth Rock over Spikes would probably help your team achieve a win condition faster and more efficiently. You also take pressure off Tyranitar by giving it another attack over Stealth rock. You won't need to set up rocks and take a hit to set them up

    You have no ghost type and Spikes support helps just Landorus-T and Lucario. it takes multiple turns to set up spikes and Skarmory will have to take repeated hits so you may not even get an opportunity to set them up. It's far more important to reliably set up stealth rock and have your Tyranitar at a healthier amount of hp than attempt to set up spikes and have both Tyranitar and skarmory weakened.

    Additionally, like Mr. Green said Psyshock on Starmie and Espeed on Luke are superior options. Psyshock not only ohko's gengar with little investment, but it gives you a great answer to keldeo (especially subcm variants). I'm really surprised you even chose BP over Extremespeed (no offense). Extreme speed hits harder 90% of the time, and has + 2 priority as opposed to + 1 to outspeed dragonite's espeed and dnite's espeed.

    Lastly, I would change Drill Peck to Brave Bird. Skarmory doesn't have the greatest attack and Brave Bird's power really does make up for its lackluster attack stat. The recoil shouldn't be too bad as you do have roost and max hp.

    hope I helped and good luck with the team!
  5. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    165
    Hey Zentrius!

    Cool team, balanced offense seems to have a lot of variability. I'd like to bespeak a few problems, though.

    First of all, nearly every single one of Chimpact's suggestions are perfect: Psyshock over Thunderbolt on Starmie, ExtremeSpeed over Bullet Punch on Lucario, Brave Bird over Drill Peck on Skarmory, and Crunch on TTar; all for the reasons listed above. I do like seeing Spikes on Skarmory, though. They transform 2HKOs into OHKOs from many of your Pokemon. Keldeo, for example, is OHKO'd by a +2 Espeed from Lucario after SR + 1 layer of Spikes. Plus, the combination of Gothitelle + TTar pretty much deals with every Spinner in the game. Tentacruel and Forretress are trapped by Gothitelle while Starmie is trapped by TTar. You're missing a move on Gothitelle by the way lol. I assume it's Trick.

    However, a major problem I see is Agility Modest LO Thundurus-T. It has the ability to flat out 6-0 you after an Agility, which it can grab against Skarmory and Gothitelle locked into Tbolt. Since everything is OHKO'd after Stealth Rock, the only thing you can really do is try to Life Orb + sandstorm stall with smart switching until Lucario's Bullet Punch knocks it out. This is another reason to go with ExtremeSpeed on Lucario. It does enough to the point where smart switching to stall it out isn't a horrible idea. Another simple but effective way to play around it is to use a Chople Berry on TTar. It can take a Modest LO Focus Blast and do enough back with the combination of TTar's Crunch and ExtremeSpeed from Lucario. This is to say you're using Chimpact's suggestion of Crunch over Stone Edge--plus, Stone Edge will eventually miss in a crucial moment such as that anyway. Then, I recommend changing your set to a more defensive one in order to take other moves and better trap Lati@s. Since Specs Latios has the potential to 2HKO your current set with Surf, TTar isn't really doing one of its most important jobs. An EV spread of 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SDef optimizes the use of Chople Berry by living pretty much every Focus Blast in the game. It can even survive an unboosed Terrakion's Close Combat. Without Superpower, that may not seem like a big deal, but it can allow you to get up SR early in the game if you desperately need it--if they have a Thundurus-T, for example.

    Next, I'd like to suggest an EV change on Gothitelle. 252 Spe doesn't give it any advantages over anything important. I'd like to suggest a Timid nature to outspeed Adamant Breloom and trap-kill it, but you have plenty of checks anyway. So, you might as well go with a bulkier specs set that has 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spe (Modest). This allows you to outspeed any Toxicroak speed creepers, like Rotom-W, while increasing the bulk quite a bit. It even dramatically increases your chances of living a Keldeo's Hydro Pump in Rain:

    252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Gothitelle in rain: (89.43 - 105.28%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

    252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam in rain: (96.44 - 113.52%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

    Other than that, the team looks really solid! Well done! Good luck in your future endeavors!~
  6. Livio

    Livio
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    267
    Hey guy, really cool team, i love Gothitelle with the new trait released, it make more interesting the Weather War and the metagame in general. The team has anyway some trouble, especially with the most common Special Sweepers of the metagame, so lemme give you my advices.

    First off, I can see a lot of weakness to fast Special pokemon, such as Choice Specs Latios, Reuniclus under Trick Room and the Speed Boost abuser, first of all RPLandorus or agilityer Thundurus-T especially when them run Modest Nature. Them have not much more problem to give you 6-0, that s because your main special sponge, Tyranitar, has not conditions to do his work as him know. The problem is main weakness to Special, anyway i will give you some advice to fix few sets.


    • As I told you, your Tyranitar s set is not much effective to check or counter most of your threat, your Evs spread, the Atk evs, are pretty useless, because you lost easily 1vs1 against the Psychic pokemon with Psichic+Fight combo that him usually counter . My suggestion is to give him Chople Berry instead of Leftovers, in this way you can win 1vs1 against Reuniclus, LOAlakazam or Gengar too, but you need to run Crunch, so the moveset i suggest you is Crunch/Pursuit/Stealth Rock/Ice Beam. This one help you for above reasons with Crunch, Ice Beam help you to hit hard and don t give setup field to RPLandorus or Agility Thundurus-t (Stone edge could miss on the second, and don t guarantee anyway the OHKO on the first). The Evs spread i suggest is 252HP/64Satk/192Sdef Sassy Nature, 64 in Satk allow you to HOKO with Ice Beam an eventual Gliscor that coul setupp on and have a bit more offense in Satk to hit above threats, the rest on Special Defense to resist better against an eventual Specs Latios or Life Orb Starmie and lock them with Pursuit.


    • Well now your main trouble is resolved, but you have something that could be fixed for example Skarmory set, you shpuld run Brave Bird>Drill Peck, and maybe use Shed Shell Skarmory. With the probabily ban of Tornadus-T, Magnezone will have a bit more usage, especially Scarf Set, and you have a great way to gain momentum thanks to Shed Shell+ Landorus immunity to Electrick type moves. Brave Bird is prefered to Drill Pack because despite has recoil damage, it hit hard more things, such as Breloom, Virizion or Keldeo that now is everywhere but even Terrakion after Some cc his a good way to win 1vs1. You have to give you 12Evs more in speed, this to outspeed eventual opponent skarm, set before and shuffle the opponent team before of your enemy.


    • You have to give Extreme Speed instead of Bullet Punch on Lucario, the reason is pretty simple, with it you can hit better more things, and HOKO after rocks Thundurus-T, have the 56% to Ohko Dragonite and gain much more kills. If you want to run Bullet Punch, you can use it instead of Crunch, but it s your choice, it help you to hit Terrakion and Gengar and hoko them after a dance, against Jellicent you have Gothitelle, that with Thunderbolt 2HOKO with SR on the field an eventual Max Special Defense.

      252SpAtk Choice Specs Gothitelle (+SAtk) Thunderbolt vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Water Absorb Jellicent (+SpDef): 47% - 55% (192 - 226 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 9% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.



    • Last thing, you need to give a move on Gothitelle lol, you could give Trick or Grass Knot, the first allow you to have an evenual Setupp field for Lucario, that is a great thing, and the second allow you to Hit Opponents Tyranitar/Hippodown or gastrodon, you have only the embarass of the choice.

      252SpAtk Choice Specs Gothitelle (+SAtk) Grass Knot vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Hippowdon (+SpDef): 72% - 86% (306 - 362 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

      252SpAtk Choice Specs Gothitelle (+SAtk) Grass Knot vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Hippowdon (Neutral): 108% - 127% (454 - 536 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

      252SpAtk Choice Specs Gothitelle (+SAtk) Grass Knot vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Tyranitar (+SpDef): 61% - 72% (248 - 294 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

      252SpAtk Choice Specs Gothitelle (+SAtk) Grass Knot vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Storm Drain Gastrodon (+SpDef): 66% - 78% (284 - 336 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Hope i helped you, good luck with the team

    Tl;dr

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Tyranitar (F) @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 SAtk / 192 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Ice Beam
    - Pursuit

    [​IMG]

    Skarmory (F) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Keen Eye
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Whirlwind
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird

    [​IMG]

    Lucario (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Bullet Punch
    - Close Combat


  7. typon77

    typon77

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,490
    Hello there,

    This team is an excellent example as to how to effectively utilize Specs Gothitelle. Lucario is one of the best Gothitelle partners there is, as she can help eliminate his checks and counters such as Gliscor, Landorus (either form), and Skarmory.

    My first suggestion is to use Trick as your fourth move on Gothitelle. Goth can manage against offensive teams with the coverage you have on that set, but Trick really comes in hand when you have a wall trapped that you cannot break through, such as Celebi or Jirachi. It's also useful as a last ditch effort to let Lucario set up an SD and possibly sweep.

    Another major change is to use Choice Scarf Landorus over Landorus-T. With sand coming from Tyranitar and a higher special attack stat, Landorus hits harder than its Therian form with every move except U-turn. The power boost, however, is only a minor part of the change. The main flaw that Landorus-T has as a scarfer when compared to Landorus is its speed. 91 Speed is just not optimal in this metagame. While Landorus is not the absolute fastest scarfer in the metagame, it retains the Therian forms STAB Earthquake and access to U-turn, as well as gaining the ability to revenge things like +1 Volcarona or Scarf MoxieMence, while only really losing the benefits given by Intimidate.

    Lastly, as stated by previous raters, ExtremeSpeed is probably better on your Lucario. The only things you will lose to with this switch are Jellicent and Terrakion, both of which are taken care of by teammates. Meanwhile, you can OHKO many threatening pokemon such as Thundurus-T and Starmie at +2, which Bullet Punch couldn't do.

    Anyways, good luck with your team!

    Summary of Changes (open)
    Add Trick to Gothitelle
    Landorus-T --> Scarf Landorus
    Bullet Punch --> ExtremeSpeed on Lucario


    Set (open)

    Landorus @ Choice Scarf
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 224 Spe
  8. Iconic

    Iconic
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,900
    seems like you'd struggle against any form of rain offense. nothing on your team can switch into specs politoed since starmie will lose if it comes in once, and though goth can trap it (and die in the process), teams don't even need rain up for the likes of keldeo to really hurt you

    you could try out gastrodon over landorus-t. gastrodon patches up a ton of your problems: you get a poli/starmie/keldeo counter, a check on thundurus, and an excellent means of beating rotom-w who seems to give your team the shits. if you don't like playing without a scarf then you can scarf ttar and give skarm SR, but your team would work fine without a dedicated revenge killer

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)