NU Shedinja [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

[Quite Quiet]

Overview
########

Shedinja has an amazing ability in Wonder Guard that leaves it immune to anything it isn't weak to, giving it loads of switch-in opportunities against some very threatening Pokemon such as Feraligatr, Kangaskhan, Klinklang, and Ludicolo. It also has a decent Attack stat backed by STAB priority in Shadow Sneak to somewhat make up for its lack of Speed. Thanks to Wonder Guard, Shedinja forces a lot of switches because many foes don't carry coverage moves to hit it with, rendering them helpless. Unfortunately, not only does Shedinja have a number of common weaknesses and a pathetic 1 HP that can't even be invested in, but it is also weak to all entry hazards, meaning that it cannot even switch in if they're on the field. Therefore, in order for Shedinja to be effective, it needs support in the form of Pokemon that resist its weaknesses, status absorbers, and hazard control in some from, whether that be Magic Bounce, Rapid Spin, Defog, or any combination of the three.

Pivot
########
name: Pivot
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: X-Scissor
move 4: Shadow Sneak
ability: Wonder Guard
item: Focus Sash
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

Baton Pass is used as a pivoting move, letting Shedinja grab a lot of momentum when used against something that doesn't carry coverage moves to hit Shedinja with. Will-O-Wisp is used to cripple physical attackers on the switch and to soften their attacks for the rest of the team. X-Scissor is the reliable Bug-type STAB move of choice, as it hits decently hard when Shedinja can spare turns attacking. Shedinja can use Shadow Sneak to revenge kill some weaker foes. Alternatively, Protect allows further scouting for moves that might hit Shedinja, increasing its longevity.

Set Details
========

As Shedinja's defenses aren't possible to increase, all of the EVs are put into Attack and Speed. Focus Sash allows Shedinja to take a second hit if needed, while Lum Berry lets Shedinja be a one-time status absorber.

Usage Tips
========

It's important to play conservatively against Pokemon such as Sceptile or Vileplume that might have a move that hits Shedinja. If possible, scout which coverage moves the foe is running. However, both Sceptile and Vileplume don't like switching in on Shedinja, which can be used to your advantage. While Baton Pass should mainly be used to grab momentum, it's a good idea to use Will-O-Wisp on a predicted switch if the foe could be hindered by a burn. Always look out for Pokemon such as Sandslash and Seismitoad that might carry Toxic or Knock Off as a filler move. Strive to keep Shedinja's Focus Sash intact for as long as possible, but if it can grab an important KO or burn a dangerous threat, it can be worth it to waste its Focus Sash to do so. Using X-Scissor instead of Baton Pass on a predicted switch is a decent option if Shedinja can OHKO or 2HKO the switch-in with a combination of it and Shadow Sneak. However, misjudging this means that your team will have to take more damage, so it's not always the best option.

Team Options
========

Thanks to its ability, Magic Bounce, Xatu makes for a perfect partner, as it easily keeps entry hazards off the field and can switch into status with ease. Entry hazards can also be kept off the field with Rapid Spin or Defog support from Pokemon such as Sandslash, Cryogonal, Pelipper, and Swanna. Other good partners are Rock- and Ground-types, such as Rhydon and Golem, as their typing gives them many resistances to the attacks Shedinja fears, and they can also set up Stealth Rock. In return, Shedinja can take the Grass- and Water-type moves aimed at them. Water-types also pair up nicely with Shedinja, as they resist Fire-type moves for it while Shedinja can cover both of their weaknesses. Seismitoad and Prinplup can also set up Stealth Rock for the team, while Pelipper can remove the entry hazards which Shedinja can't live with. Dark-types, such as Liepard and Pawniard, also make for decent partners, as they can Pursuit trap and deal with Ghost-types, as well as take some Dark-type moves aimed at Shedinja. Status absorbers such as Gurdurr are also helpful to take Toxic or Will-O-Wisp for Shedinja.

Other Options
########

Sucker Punch can be used over Shadow Sneak to hit a little bit harder, but it is far less reliable and doesn't have that much extra power. A Swords Dance set without Baton Pass is usable, but as Shedinja can't boost its Speed, it's often not recommended. Air Balloon can be used over Focus Sash because it makes Shedinja immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes and puts less pressure on your hazard control, but it is not as reliable and the extra hit Shedinja can take thanks to Focus Sash is much more useful in most cases.

Checks & Counters
########

**Entry Hazards**: Shedinja is hit by all entry hazards and can't switch in if any of them other than Sticky Web; setting them up is a very easy way to prevent Shedinja from doing anything at all. In particular, Rhydon is one entry hazard setter that also carries Rock Blast, which bypasses Shedinja's Focus Sash.

**Status Moves**: Due to Shedinja's unique HP stat, Toxic and Will-O-Wisp are both effective ways to take it out if it doesn't carry a Lum Berry.

**Ferroseed**: Ferroseed can switch in and set up Spikes without fearing anything but a burn while also threatening Shedinja with Iron Barbs and Leech Seed. Ferroseed can also set up Stealth Rock or Spikes to stop Shedinja from switching in.

**Pyroar**: With an immunity to Will-O-Wisp and Shadow Sneak and a resistance to X-Scissor, Pyroar is able to switch in on Shedinja with very little fear and proceed to use a super effective STAB Fire-type move, either KOing Shedinja or hitting a teammate for substantial damage. However, Pyroar will take quite a bit of damage switching in if both Stealth Rock and Spikes are up.

**Coverage Moves**: Anything with a super effective move such as Knock Off, Hidden Power Rock, and Hidden Power Fire is a decent check to Shedinja. Pokemon that Shedinja could otherwise deal with, such as Hariyama, Lilligant, and Audino, have a way past it with their coverage moves.

**Passive Damage**: Sandstorm, hail, and Leech Seed all deal damage to Shedinja and prevent it from even being able to switch in. Pokemon that carry Rocky Helmet such as Garbodor, Granbull, and Xatu all stop Shedinja from attacking, however, Shedinja can still spread burns.

skeleton

Overview
########

+ Wonder Guard is amazing and gives it loads of switch in opportunities.
+ Decent Attack and STAB priority in Shadow Sneak
+ Ability allows it to wall many common threats in NU like Feraligatr, Kangaskhan, Ludicolo and Sceptile if it doesn't carry Hidden Power Rock/Fire as well as all Klinklang variants
+ Forces a lot of switches it can abuse with Baton Pass, hazards damage or status moves.
- 1 HP
- Common weaknesses
- Dies to all the entry hazards
- Require a lot of team support in the form of Pokemon that resist its weaknesses, status absorbers and hazards control in some from

Pivot
########
name: Pivot
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Will-o-Wisp
move 3: X-Scissor
move 4: Shadow Sneak
ability: Wonder Guard
item: Focus Sash
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

• Baton Pass is the pivot move and grabs a lot of momentum when used on something that doesn't carry coverage to hit Shedinja with.
• Will-o-Wisp can cripple incoming physical attackers to soften their blows for the team
• X-Scissor is a reliable STAB move when Shedinja is safe to deal damage and doesn't have to worry about super effective attacks.
• With Shadow Sneak it can help out revenge kill some weaker enemies for the team if really needed, as well as patch up its low Speed.
• With Protect Shedinja can scout even better for Pokemon that can take it out, making it last longer.

Set Details
========

• Focus Sash gives Shedinja a second hit, allowing it to get hit once without fainting.
• Lum Berry can be used to avoid one attempt at getting a status condition such as poison or burn.
• No amount of EVs give Shedinja more defenses, so they're all put into offense.

Usage Tips
========

• Play conservatively with Pokemon that might have a move that takes out Shedinja like Sceptile or Vileplume. If possible scout which coverage moves they run if you need it for them. Neither of them like switching in on Shedinja however.
• Use Baton Pass a lot early game to scout which Pokemon that your opponent can hit Shedinja with.
• While Baton Pass should be used a lot to grab momentum, Will-o-Wisp is a good option if the predicted switch in is hindered by a burn
• Look out for Pokemon that might carry Toxic or Knock Off as a filler move
• Strive to keep the sash on Shedinja as long as possible, but if you can grab an important ko or burn a dangerous threat it can be worth to waste the sash to get it
• Using X-Scissor over Baton Pass is a decent option if Shedinja can OHKO/2HKO with a combination of Shadow Sneak. Misjudging this means Shedinja need its team to take more damage however.

Team Options
========

• Xatu is almost mandatory on any team with Shedinja, as Magic Bounce lets it prevent the hazards that Shedinja fears very easily.
• Rock- and Ground-types like Rhydon and Golem resist many of the moves that Shedinja can be killed by and sets up Stealth Rock as well.
• Rapid Spin and/or Defog support such as Sandslash, Cryogonal, Pelipper or Swanna to remove the entry hazards so Shedinja can do it's job efficiently.
• Dark-types like Liepard and Pawniard who can pursuit trap and deal with opposing Ghost-types as well as resisting Dark-type moves aimed at it.
• Status absorbers such as Gurdurr are helpful to take status moves like Toxic or Will-o-Wisp aimed at Shedinja
• Water-types pair up nicely with Shedinja, resisting Fire-type moves for it while Shedinja take on both their weaknesses. Seismitoad or Prinplup are two who can also set up Stealth Rock for the team, while Pelipper can remove the hazards that Shedinja can't live with.

Other Options
########

• Sucker Punch
• Swords Dance sweeper
• Air Balloon
• Safety Goggles

 

[Quite Quiet]

Probably ready to get ripped by QC

Things for QC I know already:
Is protect good enough to get a slash or not?
A second set for SDPass, even though it's outclassed?

 

[Martin]

I think that Protect should stay in moves as its great for scouting for Toxic/Will-O, but it struggles to fit it onto the set, while SDPass stays in OO personally, but take it with a pinch of salt as I'm not QC.

Also I think that Lum should actually be slashed as any good player would try and burn or toxic Shedinja instead of attacking it expecting the Focus Sash, and I feel that Safety Goggles should go in set details or OO for its niche to get around Hippopatas.

Why is Air Balloon in OO? It has no effect on Shedinja as it is immune to EQ anyway (outside of Mold Breaker, but thats far too situational and you shouldn't stay in on a Mold Breaker mon anyway).

Why are you mentioning Pelliper? It is outclassed by Swanna offensively and by Mantine defensively. Replace it with Mantine as that is missing. Also could you add Torkoal to that list and give it a special mention as it has great synergy with Shedinja for its ability to switch in on Fire-type moves and Wisps aimed at Shedinja while the latter takes all the super effective hits aimed at it. It is the best hazzard remover to be teamed up with Shedinja IMO.

Mention Steel-types, Poison-types, Guts users and Zangoose to take Toxic, and mention Fire-types, Flash Fire users and Guts users to take burns.

Mention status and Pursuit in C&C and put them right up at the top. Also mention Hippopatas as its Sand Stream KOs Shedinja.

 

[Ares]

Why is Air Balloon in OO? It has no effect on Shedinja as it is immune to EQ anyway (outside of Mold Breaker, but thats far too situational and you shouldn't stay in on a Mold Breaker mon anyway).

Air balloon makes you immune to spikes, so all you have to worry about is keeping rocks off of the field lol.

 

[Punchshroom]

Why are you mentioning Pellipper? It is outclassed by Swanna offensively and by Mantine defensively. Replace it with Mantine as that is missing.

I really don't see how Pelipper is outclassed at all, since it is bulkier than Swanna and has reliable recovery over Mantine. Pelipper is also much more equipped to handle Fighting-types than the other two. Mantine could see a mention though as it handles Fire-types better, though Kabutops can also fall into that category.

 

[Iura]

You know what sucks for Shedinja? Rock Blast xD
But really, shouldn't Baton Pass also be able to SmashPass over to Shedinja so it's easier to sweep with or no?

 

[Punchshroom]

You know what sucks for Shedinja? Rock Blast xD
But really, shouldn't Baton Pass also be able to SmashPass over to Shedinja so it's easier to sweep with or no?

If you're saying that Baton Pass Sheddy lets it pass the SmashPass boosts it received from a teammate to another sweeper, may I remind you of Baton Pass clause. Baton Pass's purpose here is to serve as a non-damaging U-turn; believe me people would be using U-turn Sheddy long ago if it could learn it.

 

[Quite Quiet]

For everyone's information, I'm not adding 8 examples of spinners/defoggers. The 4 mentioned are more than enough ._. (Kabutops doesn't like switching in to tank moves either way, so using that as fire/flying resist as well as spinner doesn't seem like a good idea to me)

Added some of what gamer boy mentioned, but left stuff like Hippopotas (it's not nearly common enough imo) and Torkoal (Both are weak to Rock moves, plus Lum Sandslash is a much better partner for Shedinja than Torkoal is and spin away hazards more reliably. Plus I can't mention every spinner either).

Still need something else for the OO section, more examples for the overview as well as the question if Lum should be slashed after sash.

QC tell me if I'm doing bad :[

edit: I can't believe I haven't been told to remove balloon yet

 

[Iura]

If you're saying that Baton Pass Sheddy lets it pass the SmashPass boosts it received from a teammate to another sweeper, may I remind you of Baton Pass clause. Baton Pass's purpose here is to serve as a non-damaging U-turn; believe me people would be using U-turn Sheddy long ago if it could learn it.

>MFW I don't see BP in the Set.
I'm just saying its a possibility to use Shedinja as a receiver as a different set.

 

[horyzhnz]

sash > lum berry imo; shedinja can 'scout' for surprise coverage moves or get off that extra attack which may be crucial, and it doesn't seem like there's many things that carry toxic / wow that won't be completely predictable, eg shedinja probably won't be staying in on weezing because huge defense + wow, etc

anyway, to beef up overview, how about:
+ many switch-in opportunities thanks to Wonder Guard
+ forces many switches (which it can capitalize on with Baton Pass and/or rack up hazard damage)

also, pyroar should probably get a mention in c+c: immune to wow and sneak, resists x-scissor, and can either wow back or go straight for the fire blast.

also cellgoondude it's the first move on the set, hello? ?_?

 

[Iura]

Sometimes I go braindead. I'm human.
As for examples for walling, umm I dunno, but you can kill Malamar.
Um... Avalugg? Lol idk anymore. Even Physical Slurpuff has Thief.

 

[Martin]

Added some of what gamer boy mentioned, but left stuff like Hippopotas (it's not nearly common enough imo)

It may not be anywhere near common, but it is one of the best ways of dealing with Shedinja, and it isn't exactly unseen.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Um yeah Sand (and maybe Hail, idk how viable that shit is though lol) need to be put in C&C for obvious reasons @_@

I think the overview really needs to emphasize how much teams support goes into this thing. Usually you need at least two hazard removers + Xatu, a status absorber, and, of course, a way to deal with Sheninja's many type weaknesses. This really needs to be emphasized because most other sweepers don't require as much support, making them generally easier to use. Basically tl;dr the amount of support Shedninja requires usually makes it not worth using most of the time.

 

[Iura]

Sand and Hail aren't all that common down here, but hail is meh. Ice Body! For real though, Safety Goggles if you're very afraid of weather.

 

[Martin]

Yeah they aren't compatible. Remove SD+BP from OO then.

 

[Politoad]

I see that its mentioned in a comment, but why isn't Mold Breaker listed at C&C? it makes Shedinja vulnerable for every type of move it isn't immune against.

 

[horyzhnz]

the only common mold breaker users, sawk and fraxure, still need two hits to down sash shedinja, and they don't exactly want to catch a wow

 

[Politoad]

the only common mold breaker users, sawk and fraxure, still need two hits to down sash shedinja, and they don't exactly want to catch a wow

yeah ok

 

[Ares]

Kangaskhan, Ludicolo, non HP rock Sceptile for more common threats in NU for the overview.

Looks good though QC 1/3

 

[Martin]

You could probably mention Safety Goggles in OO for their ability to alleviate Shedinja's weather problems as well as making it a good Sleep Powder absorber for teams that lack a grass-type, but make sure to mention how rare weather is meaning that it isn't worth it unless your team is super mega ultra weak to Sleep Powder Lilligant/Vileplume (and I guess Parasect but lol Parasect)

 

[scorpdestroyer]

add Rocky Helmet to Passive Damage in C&C

QC 2/3 sorry this sat for like a few weeks

 

[Quite Quiet]

You could probably mention Safety Goggles in OO for their ability to alleviate Shedinja's weather problems as well as making it a good Sleep Powder absorber for teams that lack a grass-type, but make sure to mention how rare weather is meaning that it isn't worth it unless your team is super mega ultra weak to Sleep Powder Lilligant/Vileplume (and I guess Parasect but lol Parasect)

I would add Safety Goggles for the weather, if it wasn't so brutally inferior to even Air Balloon (which is situational already, not to mention hail is less used than Shedinja itself so it's usually not worth it). Vileplume and Lilligant commonly run HP Fire for Ferroseed too, so I wouldn't really like switching Shedinja in on either of them to take the sleep. Not to mention sleep isn't a killer status for Shedinja in the first place, since there's a bunch of free turns it generate where it can burn it.

If QC feel it's worthwile to mention it, I will but not as it stands.

Added Rocky Helmet to Passive damage.

 

[Ares]

QQ please beef up C&C, give specific examples of scenarios Shedinja might encounter.

Tagging Kiyo to take a look at this with his "extensive" experience with Shedinja and to give QQ his final check (when you do get it try not to take ages to write it up).

 

[Kiyo]

Quite Quiet comments in bold.

Overview
########

+ Wonder Guard is amazing and gives it loads of switch in opportunities.
+ Decent Attack backed by STAB Priority Shadow Sneak
+ Ability allows it to wall many common threats in NU like Feraligatr, Kangaskhan, Ludicolo and Sceptile if it doesn't carry Hidden Power Rock/Fire add klinklang
+ Forces a lot of switches it can abuse with Baton Pass, hazards damage or status moves.
- 1 HP
- Common weaknesses
- Dies to all the entry hazards
- Require a lot of team support in the form of Pokemon that resist its weaknesses, status absorbers and hazards control in some from

Pivot
########
name: Pivot
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Will-o-Wisp
move 3: X-Scissor
move 4: Shadow Sneak
ability: Wonder Guard
item: Focus Sash
evs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

• Baton Pass is the pivot move and grabs a lot of momentum when used on something that doesn't carry coverage to hit Shedinja with.
• Will-o-Wisp can cripple incoming physical attackers to soften their blows for the team
• X-Scissor is a reliable STAB move when Shedinja is safe to deal damage and doesn't have to worry about super effective attacks.
• With Shadow Sneak it can help out revenge kill some weaker enemies for the team if really needed, as well as patch up its low Speed.
• With Protect Shedinja can scout even better for Pokemon that can take it out, making it last longer.

Set Details
========

• Focus Sash gives Shedinja a second hit, allowing it to get hit once without fainting.
• Lum Berry can be used to avoid one attempt at getting a status condition such as poison or burn.
• No amount of EVs give Shedinja more defenses, so they're all put into offense.

Usage Tips
========

• Play conservatively. Everything can have a move that takes out Shedinja so be careful what you bring it out on. I wouldn't say everything has a move that takes out shedinja. I'd actually change this to say something like "Shedinja can be switched in freely versus common pokemon such as Feraligatr, Klinklang and Ludicolo. In certain cases more conservative play can be helpful against pokemon like Vileplume and Sceptile that sometimes carry super effective coverage in favor of support moves or additional coverage." the only reason i say this is because for shedinja to be effective you have to use it to wall those common threats and gain momentum with bp.
• Use Baton Pass a lot early game to scout which Pokemon that your opponent can hit Shedinja with.
• Will-o-Wisp should be used as much as possible if it doesn't risk Shedinja, such as if the opponent have a pursuit trapper. I disagree with this, baton pass should be used to nab momentum and check the switch in with a teammate. Mention that if the opponents best switch in is hindered by will-o that it can be more beneficial in the long run to have it burned rather than having the momentum for an extra turn.
• Look out for Pokemon that might carry Toxic as a filler move same thing goes for knock off here imo.
• If the opponent has a pursuit trapper, be careful when using moves other than Baton Pass. I think I know what you're trying to say here but it doesnt make sense right now. If you're referring to pokemon that threaten shedinja and are already faster than it, that also have access to pursuit I can see this being relevant (the best examples I'm seeing are Liepard and Pawniard). but if thats not what you were going for make sure to mention this only applys to pokemon naturally faster than shedinja as otherwise you bp out just fine.

mention that shedinja has a sash for a reason, and that you don't always need to have it intact to win the game, if the opponent has a liepard in on your shedinja you can easily take the knock off and KO with X-scissor for example. the same goes for things like offensive mismagius and rotom.

while baton pass is usually the best option after switching into something shedinja walls, mention that X-Scissor is a viable option if you can 2hko / 3hko wiht the combination of X-scissor and Shadow Sneak.


Team Options
========

• Xatu is almost mandatory on any team with Shedinja, as Magic Bounce lets it prevent the hazards that Shedinja fears very easily.
• Rock- and Ground-types like Rhydon and Golem resist many of the moves that Shedinja can be killed by and sets up Stealth Rock as well.
• Rapid Spin and/or Defog support such as Sandslash, Cryogonal, Pelipper or Swanna to remove the entry hazards so Shedinja can do it's job efficiently.
• Dark-types like Liepard and Pawniard who can pursuit trap and deal with opposing Ghost-types as well as resisting Dark-type moves aimed at it.
• Status absorbers such as Gurdurr are helpful to take status moves like Toxic or Will-o-Wisp aimed at Shedinja
• Water types work very well with Shedinja as they can take Fire type attacks aimed at Shedinja while Shedinja can switch in on Electric and Grass Type attacks aimed at them. Seismitoad, Pelipper and Prinplup deserve special mention here as they can set hazards and remove them from the field respectively.

Other Options
########

• Sucker Punch
• Swords Dance sweeper
• Air Balloon
• if air baloon is being mentioned you might aswell put safety goggles here.

Checks & Counters
########

**Hazards**: Shedinja is hit by all the entry hazards in the game and can't switch in if any is present. Setting them up is a very easy way to prevent Shedinja from doing anything at all.

**Status Moves**: Due to Shedinja's unique Hitpoint stat, Toxic and Will-o-Wisp are both effective ways to take it out if it doesn't carry a Lum Berry.

**Ferroseed**: Can switch in and set up Spikes without fearing anything but a burn, while also threathen Shedinja with Iron Barbs if it attack as well as Leech Seed to take it out. Ferroseed can also set up Stealth Rock and/or Spikes to stop Shedinja from switching in..

**Pyroar**: Immune to Will-o-Wisp, Shadow Sneak and resist X-Scissor makes Pyroar almost always able to switch in with very little fear and then proceed to use a super effective STAB Fire-type move, either KOing Shedinja or hitting the switch in for damage. Stealth Rock and Spikes does take quite a bit from it however.

**Coverage Moves**: Anything with a super effective move such as Knock Off, Hidden Power Rock/Fire is a decent check to Shedinja. Pokemon such as Hariyama, Lilligant and Audino that Shedinja could otherwise deal with get a way past it with these moves. (I really don't know what to call this)

**Passive Damage**: Sandstorm, Hail, and Leech Seed all bypass anything Shedinja can use to protect itself from damage and prevent it from even being able to switch in. Rocky Helmet does this too, but only stop Shedinja from attacking; it can still spread burns.

Despite what others think Mold Breaker Sawk deserves a mention here as it ignores Wonder Guard, and can pick off a Shedinja with a broken focus sash.

Specific Rocky helmet users deserve a mention such as Garbodor (Weezing and Granbull are also seen carrying that a lot lately)

Let me know if you feel anything I mentioned here seems subjective. If not, let me know when implemented and I'll give you the final check.

 

[Quite Quiet]

• Play conservatively. Everything can have a move that takes out Shedinja so be careful what you bring it out on. I wouldn't say everything has a move that takes out shedinja. I'd actually change this to say something like "Shedinja can be switched in freely versus common pokemon such as Feraligatr, Klinklang and Ludicolo. In certain cases more conservative play can be helpful against pokemon like Vileplume and Sceptile that sometimes carry super effective coverage in favor of support moves or additional coverage." the only reason i say this is because for shedinja to be effective you have to use it to wall those common threats and gain momentum with bp.

I mean this as many things might have a move, not that they will always carry one (possbile Heat Wave Xatu/HP Fire Plume/etc.). I'll change it a bit to make that more clear. crunch gatr

C&C snip...

The C&C sections is getting reworked slightly, as Montsegur mentioned so everything there won't be the same

I'll need a few days to go over this, as most of it is a month old at this point.