1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Simipour (QC 2/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by diinbong, Aug 3, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. diinbong

    diinbong *it's in you to give*
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    956
    [Overview]

    <p>Simipour has thick competition between the countless Water-type Pokemon in its tier. Luckily, it does stand out in a few areas: there’s the obvious Nasty Plot (which it shares with no other Water-type barring Slowking), its good Speed stat that clocks it out faster than a lot of important Pokemon in UU, and its effective attacking movepool. Unfortunately, Simipour’s frailty makes switching in throughout the game a challenge, especially when you add Life Orb and entry hazards to the equation. Setting up becomes even harder since even neutral attacks will take huge chunks out of its HP. Generally, Simipour is the lesser option when compared to other Water-types.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot Sweeper
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Grass Knot
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Gluttony
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Simipour's good Speed and satisfactory Special Attack stats make boosting with Nasty Plot its most reliable way to sweep. After a Nasty Plot boost, he will be able to OHKO many prominent Pokemon in UU including Milotic, Zapdos, Shaymin, and Suicune. His attacking moves give him great coverage in UU, most importantly hitting bulky-Water switch-ins with Grass Knot. Life Orb is probably your best bet as an item because Simipour's slightly lacking Special Attack stat needs the boost. A Timid nature is definitely needed over Modest because Simipour's main selling point as an attacker is his good Speed stat.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set has trouble with Specially Defensive Pokemon like Chansey, Empoleon, and Umbreon. As it turns out, these three specifically are easily taken out by physical Fighting-types who make good partners to this set. Since Simipour's main trouble is switching in, pairing this set with teammates who attract Water- or Ice-type moves is beneficial. Some examples are Celebi and Donphan. Generally you'll want Simipour to set up once its main counters are weakened enough to be OHKOed; Toxic Spikes is a great asset in this vein as it weakens most of the bulky counters to this set. The other threats to this set are faster Pokemon who can hit hard because they will most likely KO Simipour after he has taken a bit of Life Orb and entry hazard damage. The only way to avoid this fate is to defeat these Pokemon early in the game so Simipour doesn't have to deal with them when he's sweeping.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Looking at Simipour's stats, you'd think he'd make an equally good physical attacker. Here's the truth: Hone Claws and Work up (its two physical boosting moves) are only half as effective as Nasty Plot and there are way better physical Water-types available(Feraligatr, Azumarill, Sharpedo, etc). For these reasons, stick with a Special Attacking set or use a different Pokemon. If you still want to run a physical set, Waterfall and Return alongside Low Kick for Empoleon provide great coverage. Likewise, a mixed set with Work Up is technically an option, but Simipour prefers investing all its EVs into one stat so he can hit as hard as possible. Focus Blast on the Nasty Plot set hits Chansey and Empoleon (among others) a bit harder, but is unreliable and probably not worth the lost coverage. Taunt is a good move, but is similarly hard to fit on a set. Choice Specs and Choice Scarf work on Simipour, but it's more realistic for Simipour to run sets that don't force it to switch in and out constantly because its weakness is finding moves to switch in on.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>If Simipour manages to boost with Nasty Plot, a surprisingly few amount of Pokemon will want to be taking hits from him. Empoleon is a fool-proof counter no matter how many times Simipour has used Nasty Plot. Chansey and Umbreon can take his boosted attacks and stall him out with Toxic and Payback or Seismic Toss. Kingdra and Abomasnow can survive a +2 Ice Beam and KO back. The easiest way to beat Simipour is to revenge kill him with the long list of Pokemon who are faster and have a moderately powerful STAB move. Most attacks will wear down Simipour pretty quickly, so if you're fast enough to land an attack on him you're in good shape. Finally, entry hazards and Life Orb slowly wear down Simipour very severely, so if you can land a damage dealing status move on him he'll wither away pretty quickly.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Simipour's Dream World ability Torrent would be preferred over Gluttony in most cases considering Simipour finds itself with low HP quite often and the boost is totally necessary. What's interesting, however, is that when the stat-boosting berries become available they will work quite well on Simipour; Gluttony allows him to consume the berries at 50% health, meaning you probably don't need to drop an attacking move for Substitute if you give him a Salac Berry. With a +1 Speed boost only Pokemon with Speed boosts of their own will outspeed Simipour. Still, Life Orb's boost is missed in that he loses the ability to OHKO such Pokemon as Milotic and Suicune.</p>
  2. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,136
    The Nasty Plot set is pretty much the only thing you should probably use, but also mention a Choice set somewhere (It has just enough moves for it: STAB Move, Focus Blast, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, and Hidden Power).
  3. diinbong

    diinbong *it's in you to give*
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    956
    Added mention of choice items.
  4. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,166
    mention mix acrobatics (basically for Grass-type pokes, especially roserade, that have a weaker physical side than special side) I guess and that's about it.

    pity Hydro Pump is illegal with NP.

    EDIT: Curse you serebiiiiii

    Yes, then Hydro Pump should either be slashed or AC mentioned, nothing less.
  5. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,137
    Yeah, Smeargle would like to talk to you mister. Hydro Pump + NP is as legal as using a fork and a knife for eating.
  6. Shiny4Etress

    Shiny4Etress

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Ha ha! Interesting way of thinking of it. Acrobatics + Gluttony + Berry that raises stats = Epic!
  7. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,137
    Maybe you should mention it gets Torrent. You haven't mentioned it at all in the DW section.

    ???
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,153
    I think Focus Blast is good enough to get slashed alongside GK. Smashing Registeel, Empoleon, Umbreon and at least somewhat denting Chansey are good enough reasons to use Focus Blast imo.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)

    (don't forget to change the title!)
  9. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,625
  10. pie cream

    pie cream

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    241
    I think you should mention sub in other options because it protects you from status from damage.





    Edit: ANd I think hydro pump should be used over surf because simipour needs all the power it can get.
  11. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,137
    Hey, shouldn't Hydro Pump get atleast a mention in AC, if not a slash? I don't see it anywhere.
  12. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,153
    I guess it deserves a slash (not gonna lie, I didn't even think this thing learned Hpump)
  13. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,136
    I think it should get the main slash, but I don't know how bad the risk factors are in Simipour's case.
  14. prem

    prem failed abortion
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,780
    here are some calcs

    Hydro Pump (open)

    Simipour@Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Hydro Pump vs Cresselia (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 56.3 ~ 66.4% (250 ~ 295 HP) 2hko without rocks
    Simipour@Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Hydro Pump vs Deoxys-D (252/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 91.7 ~ 107.8% (279 ~ 328 HP) ohko without rocks
    Simipour@Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Hydro Pump vs Snorlax (188/216 EVs, +Nature): 56.8 ~ 67.3% (289 ~ 342 HP) 2hko without rocks
    Simipour@Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Hydro Pump vs Uxie (252/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 94 ~ 111% (333 ~ 393 HP) ohko without rocks


    Surf (open)

    Simipour@Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Surf vs Cresselia (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 44.8 ~ 52.9% (199 ~ 235 HP) 2hko with rocks
    Simipour@Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Surf vs Deoxys-D (252/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 72.3 ~ 85.8% (220 ~ 261 HP) ohko with rocks and a layer of spikes
    Simipour@Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Surf vs Snorlax (188/216 EVs, +Nature): 45.4 ~ 53.7% (231 ~ 273 HP) 2hko with rocks
    Simipour@Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Surf vs Uxie (252/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 74.8 ~ 88.4% (265 ~ 313 HP) 2hko is all situtations


    these are what i thought could live an attack without the resist. mostly it comes down to if stealth rocks and other hazards are being used.
  15. diinbong

    diinbong *it's in you to give*
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    956
    Seriously? Read the first sentence of the DW section when I reference it. No need to spam C&C with posts like these.

    Tomorrow I'll finish by probably slashing Focus Blast with Grass Knot or at least giving it a better mention and same with Hydro Pump/Surf. Honestly I personally believe Surf should get exclusive mention but I will most likely slash it in.
  16. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,136
    He must of skimmed the section and got confused. You don't actually use the word Torrent. Throw the name in there.
  17. diinbong

    diinbong *it's in you to give*
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    956
  18. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,137
    I didn't get confused, but you're right. The word wasn't in there at all, and that's what I was getting at.

    And to you, diinbong, it's not spam if I'm trying to help you. People may not know what you are talking about if you don't mention what kind of ability it is. Before you edited your post, it just said:
    "Simipour's Dream World ability would be preferred over Gluttony..."

    What is preferred? (But now you've changed it)

    Get what I'm saying now? -.-'
  19. Snunch

    Snunch
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 8th Official Smogon Tournament

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,074
    QC APPROVED 3/3
  20. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    802
    Necrobumping to say this has been taken over by Accidental Greed (Thanks chanazn)
  21. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,110
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)