What are some checks and counters for Protean Greninja?
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Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)
- Thread starter Celticpride
- Start date
SpDef AV Magearna, Gastrodon. Mantine, Chansey, SpDef Ferrothorn, SpDef Celesteela, Keldeo, Tapu Koko, Mega Lopunny and Scarf Tapu Lele are checks, there are other checks as well, but those are the most relevants of the top of my mind
Edit: see Martin's post, Mantine is apparently not a counter :P
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Empoleon also checks it pretty well.
Isn't Empoleon usually to narrow-niched to be recommended for OU?
It depends on what moveset it runs though. A solid handful of these can't check depending on Greninja's coverage.
That's why they're checks not counters, the ones I mentioned as counters though work like 99.9% of the time, yes Z-Dig, HP Electric and HP Grass are a thing, but they're so dumb and situational that they shouldn't really be considered imo.
Yeav, I know, just wanted to add the "maybe" or "probably" to your answer.
Wait, Z-dig? I that a thing?!
It's a lure for AV Magearna, I personally find it really dumb but it exists. You're much better of using Duggy and some Eject Button shit to trap Magearna than wasting your Z move and your greninja coverage for luring one Magearna set. tl;dr don't use it, use Dugtrio instead
What's the standard set for Double Dance Magearna? I know it's BoltBeam+SG+CM but is there a specific EV spread? Electrium Z or a berry or Air Balloon?
Most of the time you should run Timid max Speed, with 252 SpA. As for the item, Electrium Z is preferred but Leftovers works if you already have a Z move user, that's the standard. Alternative bulkier EV spreads along with HP restoring berries can be used for Veil Offense though. As for Air Baloon, its pretty bad and it was only used when Baton Pass was allowed.
The stupid thing about Magearna though is that it can run virtually any combination of moves. Already we've seen variants of SG CM that run Focus Blast + STAB which basically rewrites its list of checks, and you don't even know it until it actually uses a move.
Just a note, but Mantine dies to 2 Gunk Shots w/ SR up
Nature
I know this is the standard Toxapex ev spread that lets you avoid the 2 hit ko from LO Gengar's Shadow Ball after rocks when holding a Black Sludge, but what about when holding a Shed Shell? When I tried to create a similar ev spread, it didnt have the physical bulk to handle some of the threats mentioned in the Toxapex page in the strategy index.
- Bold
- 252 HP
- 192 Def
- 64 SpD
I know this is the standard Toxapex ev spread that lets you avoid the 2 hit ko from LO Gengar's Shadow Ball after rocks when holding a Black Sludge, but what about when holding a Shed Shell? When I tried to create a similar ev spread, it didnt have the physical bulk to handle some of the threats mentioned in the Toxapex page in the strategy index.
how important are scarf users in bulky offense/hyper offense teams? currently trying to make a team and it's hard to fit everything
Unless you are running a combination of Volcarona checks such as Zygarde, Pex, and T-tar, or just Mantine/Chansey, a Scarfer is basically a necessity in this meta to deal with it reliably. Good ones include Greninja, Chomper, Keldeo, Latios, and Lele. Tapu Lele is probably the best Scarfer in the tier but it can't revenge kill Volcarona, so it necessitates a T-tar/Mantine in order to get away with running it.
I see thanks for the info ! What do you think of Choice Scarf Victini? I'm interested in it and it looks pretty cool having a 180 BP move :O It lowers the speed though so not sure if it's worth. It can OHKO Volcarona too.
The issue is that it doesn't outspeed volc after a qd. Basically, it's inevitable that volcarona will set up at some point, so you have to have a way to kill it after it's used quiver dance once. Either that, or a mon that flat out walls it, which is few and far between.
Victini merely speed ties, so its not really reliable.
Hm I see. I just calced it and Victini can tank a hit but not very well so any prior damage on it would wreck it. I see what you mean haha.
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but is the council considering giving arena trap a suspect test soon as in maybe usum release soon? (A simple "yes, soon" or "no, not soon but under consideration" would be very nice please)
I know its only been a while since duggys suspect but most of the votes were because of lack understanding of meta and because it was so early onand cough cough because it was suspected before actual threats like phero cough so people (like me) basically thought it wasnt broken
But oh boi was i wrong. with z moves, cb and cs, dugtrio traps 90% of the meta its ridiculous, not even mentioning eject button which you can literally almost never see coming. I regret ever thinking its not broken, and im sure others feel the same
I know its only been a while since duggys suspect but most of the votes were because of lack understanding of meta and because it was so early on
But oh boi was i wrong. with z moves, cb and cs, dugtrio traps 90% of the meta its ridiculous, not even mentioning eject button which you can literally almost never see coming. I regret ever thinking its not broken, and im sure others feel the same
Good day I want to ask if smogon will do a middlecup tier like they did in 6th gen? if so when will it be released.
They won't suspect anything until after wcop is done. Even when it is, there's no guarantee that duggie is first on the agenda (gearna, ashgren etc). From what I can gather, it does still get brought up in the odd Policy Review thread now and then, which I recommend checking out as there's a lot of talk about stall, and duggie plays a large part in that. It's likely the suspect may be revisited and redone at some point before usum but it's not a guarantee.
Can someone tell me which EV's spread and sets they should run in the same team? Smogondex still says Clef should be bold, which i think it's outdated. Ty
Can someone tell me which EV's spread and sets they should run in the same team? Smogondex still says Clef should be bold, which i think it's outdated. Ty
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower / Knock Off / Thunder Wave
Toxapex @ Shed Shell
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes / Toxic
- Haze
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower / Knock Off / Thunder Wave
Toxapex @ Shed Shell
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes / Toxic
- Haze
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Bold Clefable is actually not outdated, it's used to take on stuff like Band Zygarde and Mega Medicham.