Yes, but in order for Air Slash to hit AND flinch 9 times in a row just requires superluck that you can't count on every damn match. Even a 95% chance will have problems working 9 times in a row, and then you have to take the 60% chance of flinching in a row. Skymin is just not a reliable threat - Kingdra and Scizor terrify my stall teams far more than him.
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Skymin Discussion Thread
- Thread starter 1059860
- Start date
Ok Darknessmalice.
Sure, a Skymin air slash is annoying. A seed flare also. When my car doesnt start in the morning that is also annoying.....but am i going to call my car uber? no! not just yet.
You just have to keep trying to find new ways to counter it. I use oil changes to counter my problem. perhaps you should also consider this.
I hope this helps
Sure, a Skymin air slash is annoying. A seed flare also. When my car doesnt start in the morning that is also annoying.....but am i going to call my car uber? no! not just yet.
You just have to keep trying to find new ways to counter it. I use oil changes to counter my problem. perhaps you should also consider this.
I hope this helps
Skymin has reliable counters. End of story.
Re-read that sentance. Tell me if it makes any sense to you. Yeah, specs tar.
I'm posting from the computer lab so I can't (won't) take the time to do damage calcs here (but yeah, I'm seriously doubting LO seed flare and LO air slash do all that much to ttar), but if you're going to rely on 1 air slash flinch and seed flare hitting, you're already falling below 50% chance of getting what you want.
@Raikou-- additionally, the bottom line is just that shaymin-s is just not uber. It's just not good enough. In terms of sweeping abilities, both in sheer sweeping power and in how well it handles its counters, it is simply not a top OU threat.
It's only different because it's annoying and causes headaches, it adds another luck factor to the metagame. However, I'd bitch more about machamp and togekiss than shaymin-s.
Actually Machamp brings up a good point.
-100% Accuracy + 100 base power
-100% chance of confusion
-comes off 130 base offensive stat
-Fighting typing (much better than grass for crying out loud)
. . . yeah, with a move like machamp's dynamic punch around, shaymin-s' seed flare is not that impressive.
The probability of Air Slash hitting once is 95%. The probability of it hitting 8 times without fail is roughly 66%. So even discounting the unlikelihood of "flinchhax" there is a legitimate chance that Skymin will fail miserably at defeating Tyranitar one on one. Of course, it does have to rely on multiple flinches to do so so that point is somewhat moot; people just need to stop bringing up crazy luck-related scenarios in general because they simply are not relevant. Nobody cares if Skymin can beat something it "isn't supposed to" less than 1% of the time, not only is that "the game" but quite literally every other pokemon can boast something similar due to critical hit, miss, or freeze "hax" of some kind. Even completely ignoring the pokemon that are pretty much by design "luck-based," there's nothing special about Skymin situationally beating things like Tyranitar.
Blame Game, my post was simply showing what happened in one scenario. I completely agree with most people in this thread - Skymin is underwhelming. My post about my bad luck was not to try and say that Skymin beats Tyranitar, but rather to emphasise the sheer amount of luck it needed to do so.
1 LO Air Slash flinch + 1 LO Seed Flare = KO on any 252 Hlth, 4 SpcDef neutral nature Tar. How many times do I have to say that? Skymin would never bother with 9 Air Slashes on Tar; she has no need to. If it is a 252 Hlth, 252 SpcDef Careful Tar, Skymin would find out after 1 Air Slash (which is a probable flinch) and then swap out. Pursuit from that Tar won't do much damage.
And Machamp's Dynamic Punch is a free Ghost pokemon swap in.
. . . because just the fact ghosts can switch in makes up for all the other stuff I mentioned. Right . . . fight > grass in terms of attacking types. If you don't know that, wow.
You do realize that 1 flinch hax + 1 seed flare hit = 48% chance of happening right? Also that ttar could see LO (accomplish a scout), and then switch out, while not pretty much forcing skymin to seed flare due to its threat (easing your prediction) and having accomplished the goal of setting up SS which will bring it even closer to death right (especially since it's LO)? Besides with leftovers ttar actually has a chance to survive, so yeah, your chance of winning 1 on 1 with an LO skymin are less than 48%. And speaking of leftovers, it's over 1.5 times more common than life orb on skymin. lol
Point being that when a fast grass type needs 1 particular set and take LO damage to have just to have a 48% chance of beating a slow rock type, that's pretty sad.
Even more important point: Skymin is so far from being uber. lol
No, you cannot possibly be that stupid. Please tell me you were mistaking that part of his post for something else.
But seriously guys, arguing to and fro over some situational theorymon accomplishes nothing, and makes no difference as to whether Skymin is Uber or not. You could play that game with just about any other top OU threat and attempt to make it appear Uber.
As far as I'm concerned, the issue in the Skymin/Uber debate is the extreme luck factor involved, as it is the only thing distinguishing it from all the other top threats (except Togekiss but that is a somewhat different issue). So far I am not convinced that this factor is enough to consider it Uber.
darknessmalice, I'm sorry but I'm so busy laughing here that I can't respond to that last post. TTar without sand stream. It's not even mentioned on the analysis. xD
^ I'm not even concerned about that, compared to "with two switches into stealth rock there's an 85% chance that t-tar dies" which is just about the worst argument I've ever heard that doesn't even apply to the original argument in the first place
If ttar managed to switched into a specs air slash, it wouldn't need to worry about leaf storm or seed flare. >>
Why would you run Specs Leafstorm? Seed Flare only has 30 less BP (factoring in STAB) and has an 67% chance to lower the Special Defense when factoring in accuracy.
I fail to see why we are talking about T-Tar switching in to Skymin. Again, either the Tar user is a fucking idiot, or he is 100% sure the Skymin is Choice.
I fail to see why we are talking about T-Tar switching in to Skymin. Again, either the Tar user is a fucking idiot, or he is 100% sure the Skymin is Choice.
Shaymin-Sky@Choice Scarf
Modest / Serene Grace
252 Satk / 252 Speed / 6 hp
-Seed Flare
-Air Slash
-Earth Power
-Hidden power Fire
Man, this thing is terrible O_O I used it once in a test battle and it swept my opponent's team. Like, almost nothing outspeeds it, scarf-tran, scarf-hera, scarf-mence, scarf-gengar, electivire with actived motor drive... All of them! The only one thing I thought was the possibility of heatran switching in a seed flare, but it depends of your predict. And 120 little base satk with no bonus can KO a lot of pokes!!!! Comment please.
Modest / Serene Grace
252 Satk / 252 Speed / 6 hp
-Seed Flare
-Air Slash
-Earth Power
-Hidden power Fire
Man, this thing is terrible O_O I used it once in a test battle and it swept my opponent's team. Like, almost nothing outspeeds it, scarf-tran, scarf-hera, scarf-mence, scarf-gengar, electivire with actived motor drive... All of them! The only one thing I thought was the possibility of heatran switching in a seed flare, but it depends of your predict. And 120 little base satk with no bonus can KO a lot of pokes!!!! Comment please.
Well, of course it's going to outspeed all those Scarfers, it also has one of its own. And Heatran could switch-in on anything besides Earth Power; unless you're playing against Legacy Raider, Air Slash flinch won't save you forever.
Whoops, I mistoke SS for Stealth Rock.
October Usage statistics show Crobat at #60, so definately not OU. Apparently Skymin hasn't been making so much of an impact as to necessitate Crobat.
I think Hypnosis' drop in accuracy will detract more from Crobat's usage than the increase because of it countering abilities.
Registeel is the best Skymin counter, not Crobat, who tends to kill himself with Brave Bird. And as previously stated, Hypnosis's nerfed accuracy hurts. It dropped Gengar from #2 despite gaining Trick.
Registeel gained much more popularity in Plat, all thanks to Skymin. However, it didn't gain enough popularity to become OU, mainly because people tend to fight Skymin through many checks - the typical trio of Heatran, Scizor and Zapdos. Few people use actual Skymin counters. Of course, if the checks fail due to a prediction error (Heatran swaps in on Earth Power, Zapdos swaps in on Seed Flare, Scizor shouldn't swap in cause he can't on Air Slash or Seed Flare unless Skymin is in KO range of Bullet Punch), Skymin sweeps.
I'm not sure we can directly attribute Gengar's drop purely to Hypnosis' new accuracy...
Isnt regice better? earth power 3hkos and assuming a crit (dont flame me, i just have that much luck to mention a crit) and regice is never 3hko by any of skymins attack last i checked, unless you factor in stealth rock on a specs seed flare or sumthin? plus he has stab ice beam which is pretty much a guaranteed ko unless they go bulky (lol)
Also a good counter, though I found Registeel usage increased significantly whilst Regice has barely increased. My guess is it is because of SR hurting Regice and better overall typing for other purposes e.g. walling. Regice also doesn't resist Seed Flare and Air Slash. STAB Seed Flare does the same damage as a x2 Earth Power.
However, I still find that Registeel doesn't have it easy against a Subseed Skymin. Regice would probably find it harder thanks to SR weakness.