Skymin Discussion Thread

[Kecleon]

Honchkrow -- Fails to SubSeed version.
Aerodactyl -- You don't keep it in... Just like you don't keep Salamence in Weavile. And it's OU.
Crobat -- We knew that. Established in first page. Can die to Life Orb Seed Flare with SR on field.
Scarfdoom -- Killed by ScarfSkyMin's Earthpower.
Moltres -- Die to Air Slash after a Flinch if switch into Stealth Rock. Ripped apart by SubSeed version.
Entei -- SubSeed Version can Flinch it to death since it's not fast enough. SR deals even more damage.

You gave me about 3 different sets, I don't know what your smoking but I think you were confused cause there is no species clause to have those 3 types.

Sub seed can be a problem though and serence grace+ his attacks are kind of cheap. ScarfHeat rotom beats it also with the use of trick to fuck its sub-seed combo up. Scarf isn't really a threat to me, it's actually quite easy to counter, as for specs, seed flare just goes to a fire pokemon and air slash to a steel,*STAB moves. I actually see Life Orb/YacheMin as the top threats but then Shaymin is vulnerable to aerodactyl and other scarfed fire pokemon. Skymin can be un-predictable, making it a problem in OU with all the different sets. I just know for sure that specs-min is the least popular. I guess skymin can be countered if you know what type it is.

Also they were just some examples of BL pokemon that CAN beat skymin for your benefit. Being under OU doesnt make them crap and/or inefficient. Look at Scizor(one of the most common OUS) vs. Shedninja(UU) I mean seriously OUs are not the only pokemon in the game. Pfft, larpas beats Skymin with ice shard.

 

[Kira]

The thing I don't understand is how can Mamoswine revenge kill Skymin. I mean everyone knows he has Ice Shard, and Skymin can easily switch. Keeping it in on Mamoswine is pretty stupid unless you literally have no other options.

 

[I am Gengar]

Most of the time, I find Skymin gets killed by a Scarfer. Or, he gets revenge killed by Mamoswine or Scizor (the latter doesn't come anywhere close to a OHKO, whilst Mamoswine does not if Skymin holds a Yache Berry (though this is rare)).

Oh, and Skymin is the reason Registeel is so common. Before, I rarely saw any Registeels. Other than that, Registeel has Thunderwave and SR for support purposes, which many other Pokemon can do. He also works as a Dragon counter with Ice Punch, but so do many other pokemon.


Skymin doesn't have a genuine counter, because they can be beaten by prediction, just that such cases are rare and most of the people who use Skymin don't predict some things. Skymin can use Earth Power to OHKO the Scarf Heatran or Metagross switching in, but I rarely see this happen. But yes, she has more counters than Chomp. But counters alone should not determine Skymin's rankings.

Manaphy with Surf, Tail Glow, Rest, Rain Dance is counterable by strong water resists e.g. Vaporeon, Lapras, Quagsire, Kingdra, Celebi. Many still counter him with Ice Beam or Grass Knot instead of one of those moves. BUT as with Manaphy's position in the uber tier, it is not just a matter of countering the pokemon, but its overall power and its effect on the metagame. Skymin's power is debatable for the uber tier but it is definitely high. And Skymin has had a massive effect on the metagame.

I realize this (although I personally haven't seen any Registeel myself). While it may affect the metagame significantly, I don't think it is by any means broken in OU or Uber. Also, Manaphy is being considered for re-testing in OU. I don't know if that was the point of your example or not, but I'm just saying.

 

[1059860]

You gave me about 3 different sets, I don't know what your smoking but I think you were confused cause there is no species clause to have those 3 types.

Sub seed can be a problem though and serence grace+ his attacks are kind of cheap. ScarfHeat rotom beats it also with the use of trick to fuck its sub-seed combo up. Scarf isn't really a threat to me, it's actually quite easy to counter, as for specs, seed flare just goes to a fire pokemon and air slash to a steel,*STAB moves. I actually see Life Orb/YacheMin as the top threats but then Shaymin is vulnerable to aerodactyl and other scarfed fire pokemon. Skymin can be un-predictable, making it a problem in OU with all the different sets. I just know for sure that specs-min is the least popular. I guess skymin can be countered if you know what type it is.

Also they were just some examples of BL pokemon that CAN beat skymin for your benefit. Being under OU doesnt make them crap and/or inefficient. Look at Scizor(one of the most common OUS) vs. Shedninja(UU) I mean seriously OUs are not the only pokemon in the game. Pfft, larpas beats Skymin with ice shard.

I said, you have to figure out what set they're running. If you assumed that they're running the SubSeed set and tried to switch in Entei, but end up being a hit by EarthPower... It doesn't work out.

 

[Kecleon]

What's sub seed?

-earth power
-air slash
-substitute
-leech seed

? or does seed flare go in there?

 

[Darkmalice]

You gave me about 3 different sets, I don't know what your smoking but I think you were confused cause there is no species clause to have those 3 types.

LO or Choice set can kill all those counters. HP Ice owns Honchkrow (CB Sucker Punch doesn't OHKO), Scarfed Houndoom dies to Earthpower, Moltres and Entei can die after 1 Air Slash flinch (57% chance of occuring). Please read all the replies on the page before jumping to conclusions, this has already been posted.

But yes, counters should be assigned to each Skymin set, not a Skymin with every possible move it can have.


For Kira. Mamoswine is still a revenge-killer of Skymin, but most revenge kill attempts can be thwarted by swapping, yes. The best revenge killers are those that prevent swapping: Dugtrio (who fails hopelessly against Skymin), Weavile (who plays an Ice Shard and Pursuit mindgame, but failure either leads to Weavile being OHKOed by Seed Flare or letting Skymin run away, and Pursuit will never OHKO) and Scizor (who can't OHKO Skymin without a Bug move, exposing him to Air Slash, otherwise, he relies on Bullet Punch or predicting a swap and using Puruist, niether of whom will OHKO). Of course, there is Wob, who is Uber, and may actually fail if he encores a Seed Flare with the Spc.Def. drop or Mirror Coats Leech Seed.

 

[Kecleon]

Scarf doom outspeeds LO min, CB sucker punch DOES kill shaymin, Moltres and Entie will be scarfed obviously to outspeed and kill it.

 

[Kira]

What's sub seed?

-earth power
-air slash
-substitute
-leech seed

? or does seed flare go in there?

I use that set. Seed Flare isn't needed. People overate that move way too much. Being able to hit Heatran is far better considering people rely on him for much more than just stopping Skymin. You can stall out most walls so Seed Flare defense drop isn't that important.

Also I use 252 HP for the 101 hp subs. Though that is just me.

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

BTW, just how often do you all face the SubSeed set? A lot of times when I face Skymin, first it switches in on Hippo as I set up Rocks, then it fires a Seed Flare as I switch to ScarfTran (then I see the LO recoil). It's amazing how often this happens.

In fact, I only remember seeing one or two Skymin actually Sub on my switch to Tran...

 

[Kira]

I always Sub against Flying/Grass weak Pokemon. I run Earth Power/Air Slash, though my opponent can't possibly know that early game. So they send out Heatran and I get a great chance to kill it early in the game.

Only a few decent opponents have actually bothered switching out Heatran in order to scout for the potential Earth Power.

 

[IcyMan28]

I always Sub against Flying/Grass weak Pokemon. I run Earth Power/Air Slash, though my opponent can't possibly know that early game. So they send out Heatran and I get a great chance to kill it early in the game.

Only a few decent opponents have actually bothered switching out Heatran in order to scout for the potential Earth Power.

I think this is probably the best set for SubSeed Skymin. Despite what people say about Seed Flare causing switches, the primary purpose of the set is to effectively subseed an enemy, and Skymin still has STAB Air Slash with flinch hax going for it. Earth Power is just incredibly useful for all the steels.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I love how offensive Zapdos is 2hko'd by Seed Flare after SR. <3

 

[Kagster123]

I love how offensive Zapdos is 2hko'd by Seed Flare after SR. <3

And how defensive ones are flinch-haxed to death.

Pathetic.

 

[Darkmalice]

Seed Flare SpcDrop and Air Slash flinch screw up so many pokemon. Even Deoxys gets 2HKOed and Ice Beam Deoxys isn't seen much due to the popularity of Double Screen Deoxys.

 

[hrc969]

It can't be used on Wifi sadly if you were planning to use it for that.

Or he can use the AR code that allows it to be used, (as many people are doing).

 

[1059860]

Actually no. Galactia Flower (or whatever the item is called) only comes with Movie Shaymin. That Shaymin can't be hacked.

 

[Darkmalice]

Actually no. Galactia Flower (or whatever the item is called) only comes with Movie Shaymin. That Shaymin can't be hacked.

Meaning Aussies like me won't see Skymin for ages. Why did they only allow that flower for Movie Shaymin? My friends are going to megahack the game now.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Yes, you can hack that Shaymin... You just need to mark the Fateful Encounter flag on Pokésav, etc etc...

And they probably did it just to fuck up with the silly players who got a Shaymin/Darkrai with the Surf on E4 Glitch. I can't understand why both pokémon still can be caught in Platinum, though. Their events even have been changed a little and all.

 

[IcyMan28]

Yes, you can hack that Shaymin... You just need to mark the Fateful Encounter flag on Pokésav, etc etc...

And they probably did it just to fuck up with the silly players who got a Shaymin/Darkrai with the Surf on E4 Glitch. I can't understand why both pokémon still can be caught in Platinum, though. Their events even have been changed a little and all.

The events were already there, though I suppose the fact that they updated the events is strange. Maybe they are planning to release the event-trigerring items via Wifi?

 

[Darkmalice]

The events were already there, though I suppose the fact that they updated the events is strange. Maybe they are planning to release the event-trigerring items via Wifi?

It'd help. But I don't have wifi.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Like I said in the other thread, Shaymin S is a good poke in OU for providing a check for Bulky Water types.

Frankly, if I manage to get a grass type in against a water type, and I have the threat of 1 hko'ing your current pokemon, I ought to be rewarded with the chance to lay out some serious pain to your team.

So yeah, if you were lame enough to let that happen, I think the fact that I have a chance to 2hko your zapdos with seed flare is quite fair,

considering that when Suicune came in and blocked my heatran (loling the damage), Surf could be brainlessly spammed to hurt anything on my team, including Shaymin S/Salamence who are already getting hurt by SR.

So yeah, compared with the power of suicune to come in, lol at heatran damage, get leftovers back up (if no sand storm), and hurt just about anything on my team with Surf, including a potential 50% hit when combined with SR against even the non-water pokes that resist it,

I think Skymin's power to get a fair chance of killing the next pokemon you switch into it with Seed Flare/Air Slash, actually quite balanced.

 

[Darkmalice]

considering that when Suicune came in and blocked my heatran (loling the damage), Surf could be brainlessly spammed to hurt anything on my team, including Shaymin S/Salamence who are already getting hurt by SR.

So yeah, compared with the power of suicune to come in, lol at heatran damage, get leftovers back up (if no sand storm), and hurt just about anything on my team with Surf, including a potential 50% hit when combined with SR against even the non-water pokes that resist it,

I think Skymin's power to get a fair chance of killing the next pokemon you switch into it with Seed Flare/Air Slash, actually quite balanced.

I don't know what you're onto. Generic suicune sets have little initial spcatt, and its easily walled. if suicune poses a huge threat, then so many pokemon do. but thats just stupid; then swapping is stupid. and theres methods to heal damage (wish can always heal off damage on any pokemon, especially with suicune attacking).

So a pokemon swaps in to wall suicune, and suicune can't do anything, and no one gets close to being koed. how is that, compared to skymin killing the next pokemon who swaps into it balanced (which as you said, has a fiar chance of happening)?

 

[malomyotismon]

Meh, this little guy should be deemed uber, he is like a faster special attacking version of garchomp who can wreak teams with out regice or registeel or another bulky clear body user. I have been using him for a while now, doing various tests on shoddy's smogon server wich include

Can you easily make a come back in 25 diffrent battles by using skymin only? yes was the answer, most of the time and all of the time when shaymin wreaks a team and other pokes destroy the remaining pecies.

skymin v blissey, blissey dies in the switch in against choice specs only skymin in 2 hits including seedflare drop all the time with 0 sp defece eves blissey- I did this on a damge calculator insted.

skymins effect on pokemon appearing -regice is becoming the new blissey, an increase in metagrosses and registeels

Skymin and stealth rock- more a nucaince than anything dose not hurt him as much I thought it would his ability to sweep stays constant mainly....

skymin and yanche berry- the drop in power just is not worth it

sorry if i was a little breeth for futher deatials pm, I just do not have the time right now to type them all out.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Meh, this little guy should be deemed uber, he is like a faster special attacking version of garchomp who can wreak teams with out regice or registeel or another bulky clear body user. I have been using him for a while now, doing various tests on shoddy's smogon server wich include

Can you easily make a come back in 25 diffrent battles by using skymin only? yes was the answer, most of the time and all of the time when shaymin wreaks a team and other pokes destroy the remaining pecies.

skymin v blissey, blissey dies in the switch in against choice specs only skymin in 2 hits including seedflare drop all the time with 0 sp defece eves blissey- I did this on a damge calculator insted.

skymins effect on pokemon appearing -regice is becoming the new blissey, an increase in metagrosses and registeels

Skymin and stealth rock- more a nucaince than anything dose not hurt him as much I thought it would his ability to sweep stays constant mainly....

skymin and yanche berry- the drop in power just is not worth it

sorry if i was a little breeth for futher deatials pm, I just do not have the time right now to type them all out.

Spare us your diatribes. First off, 0 SpD Blissey hasn't been standard for a VERY long time. Also, the idea that a special wall might have to invest in special defense to take special hits? Blasphemy! Second, if Skymin had Nasty Plot, maybe it would be on the level of Garchomp, but right now it's just a decent sweeper with not bad type coverage which can also run an annoyer set. Heatran shuts it down if it doesn't come in on Earth Power, Scizor can Bullet Punch non HP Fire sets into submission, and there are a number of other counters that function effectively.

SR means that it can only be forced out a set number of times before dying, and it's not that hard to force it out. Smart players won't simply get swept by it.

Yache Berry is for the most part a formality. It doesn't patch up its weakness to SR, which is what it really needs to deal with, and its lack of impressive bulk means that it still gets killed by most Ice attacks through the Yache Berry after switching into SR.

Just... stop. Rehashing the same old tired and ineffective arguments doesn't help your case.

EDIT: How did I miss this? Explain how new Pokemon appearing in the metagame is a bad thing again?

 

[Chou Toshio]

I don't know what you're onto. Generic suicune sets have little initial spcatt, and its easily walled. if suicune poses a huge threat, then so many pokemon do. but thats just stupid; then swapping is stupid. and theres methods to heal damage (wish can always heal off damage on any pokemon, especially with suicune attacking).

So a pokemon swaps in to wall suicune, and suicune can't do anything, and no one gets close to being koed. how is that, compared to skymin killing the next pokemon who swaps into it balanced (which as you said, has a fiar chance of happening)?

What's the point of walling suicune? I want to kill suicune. If I can't kill it than it can take its time killing me.

Maybe if you're running blissey or celebi, but for most sweepers a stab surf is going to leave a nice 30-40% sting at least even if coming from low special attack. Considering how few pokemon actually resist water, it's a (and that many non-water OU pokes who do are in turn weak to SR), along side all the terrific non-offensive options boasted by bulky waters, and they pose a big threat.

Besides, even if you are something not killed off the bat by surf, it doesn't mean you can beat suicune either. Also none water pokemon who resist water, hate this thing called "ice beam"?