1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Slowbro [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Ernesto, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    QC approvals: 3/3 (kokoloko, DestinyUnknown, PK Gaming)
    GP approvals: 2/2 (melvni, sirndpt)


    [Overview]

    <p>Slowbro hasn't changed much in the transition to BW2, only gaining the ability to use Trick and Signal Beam with Regenerator from the BW2 move tutors, but the metagame has certainly changed around it. With a lot of new powerful physical attackers in the tier, such as Mienshao, Virizion, and Scrafty, things aren't as easy for the Bro. With Heracross gaining Moxie from the Dream World, it has now become the number one Pokemon in UU usage stats, which means that Slowbro also has to fear its powerful STAB Megahorn even more frequently than before. However, Slowbro's extremely good physical bulk and awesome ability in Regenerator give it the ability to survive super effective hits and either hit back or switch out and recover one-third of its health. That and its base 100 Special Attack should really be taken into account, since they give it an edge over other bulky Water-types, namely Suicune. With access to Trick Room and Calm Mind, it's not hard for Slowbro to change a battle's outcome&mdash;especially with its many chances to switch in on the great number of Fighting- and Fire-types it counters&mdash;while Slack Off allows it to gain health back without switching out and losing its boosts. Its low Special Defense and virtually nonexistent Speed still hold it back, however, especially since it faces competition from the likes of Mew and Meloetta as Calm Mind users, the latter having an immunity to Ghost&mdash;though lacking a Fighting-type resistance.</p>

    <p>Overall, the once extremely popular RBY Pokemon continues to be a staple of the Underused metagame, and can be a great asset to any team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Psyshock
    move 4: Slack Off
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the standard Calm Mind Slowbro, a set that's existed since the third generation, albeit with the gifts it got from the two generations that followed. Still, it plays pretty much the same way, being a physical tank capable of boosting its weaker Special Defense and its usable Special Attack stat at the same time, similarly to how CurseLax plays on the specially defensive field. The strategy is simple: switch it in on a physical move the Hermit Crab Pokemon resists&mdash;e.g. Mienshao's Hi Jump Kick or Darmanitan's Flare Blitz&mdash;and Calm Mind on the predicted switch to a special attacker. If Slowbro manages to get a couple of boosts behind its belly, it'll be very hard to take out, barring critical hits.</p>

    <p>Though Calm Mind also improves Slowbro's Special Attack, this set is not really meant to sweep as much as it's meant to be able to tank hits on both ends of the spectrum; that said, it can work as a late-game sweeper once its counters have been weakened, just like most stat-boosters. Teams leaning towards stall really appreciate Slowbro's power, as it is a nice tank that can take both physical and special attacks&mdash;despite its five weaknesses. Scald and Psyshock are its STAB moves of choice, the former has a 30% chance to burn the target, which particularly makes physical attackers such as Snorlax easier to beat, while the latter enables Slowbro to win Calm Mind wars against Suicune and Virizion that switch in while Slowbro uses Calm Mind. Slack Off rounds out the set, giving Slowbro a way to recover HP without having to switch out and lose its boosts.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The 16 Special Attack EVs let Slowbro OHKO standard 252/0 Roserade with Psyshock on the switch after Stealth Rock, while the rest go into physical defense to make the most of its bulk. Fire Blast can be used instead of either of Slowbro's STAB moves to hit Shaymin&mdash;and to a lesser extent, Bronzong&mdash;harder, though doing so means losing out on beating things it otherwise should, such as Arcanine, Darmanitan, and Machamp, the first two being hit harder by Scald, and the latter by Psyshock.</p>

    <p>As for partners, Pokemon that can absorb Toxic Spikes (however rare they might be) really help Slowbro succeed. Amoonguss and Roserade stand out, each having its perks over the other: for one, Amoonguss has much better overall bulk, Regenerator, and the rare Spore, while Roserade can set up Spikes and Toxic Spikes, is much faster and more powerful, can absorb status thanks to Natural Cure and can use Sleep Powder, which though not as reliable as Spore and unfortunately illegal with Spikes, does go well with its high Speed stat. Other options for a Toxic Spikes absorber include Nidoking and Nidoqueen, both being able to set up Stealth Rock and having more offensive presence due to Sheer Force. A paralysis spreader can also be useful to get around Slowbro's Speed issues. Notable ones, though gimmicky, are Whimsicott and Liepard, both having access to Prankster to get priority on Stun Spore and Thunder Wave, respectively. Double status Amoonguss is another good option for spreading paralysis, being able to cripple another Pokemon after Sleep Clause has activated. Finally, things that can lure in and take out Suicune and Milotic (especially RestTalk variants) also make good teammates for Slowbro. Special mention here goes to mixed Victini, which is amazing at luring bulky Water-types and hitting them hard with Thunderbolt or Grass Knot&mdash;or the now available Bolt Strike. However, Rotom-H can also do the trick if it predicts the switch (no pun intended).</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Tank
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Slack Off
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Fire Blast
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is a great asset on balanced teams that struggle with Fighting-types other than Heracross and Scrafty. Scald is the set's main move, having a notable chance to completely cripple the physical attackers Slowbro has to counter. Psyshock is a bit better than Psychic as the Fighting-types it's used for have better Special Defense on average, and Psyshock also hits Roserade on its weaker defensive stat. Slack Off offers the Hermit Crab Pokemon a means of recovery in case it can't reliably switch out. Thunder Wave can go on the last slot to paralyze faster things (like 80% of the metagame, accounting for immunities) that try to switch in on it, but Fire Blast is an option to hit Shaymin harder.</p>

    <p>It should be noted that Slowking has access to Dragon Tail to not be setup fodder, but Slowbro has the advantages of having higher natural physical bulk and being able to run both of its STABs on the same set, something Slowking can't do without losing either a support or a recovery move.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>16 Special Attack EVs let Slowbro KO Roserade on the switch after Stealth Rock, while the rest goes to physical defense. Ice Beam can be used to KO Flygon, but a burnt Flygon is already as good as dead (and it will usually U-turn out of Slowbro); Ice Beam can also hit Druddigon super effectively. Grass Knot is another option to hit opposing bulky Water-types harder. Yawn can also be used in the last slot, being able to phaze opponents that try to set up on Slowbro.</p>

    <p>Roserade and Amoonguss partner up well with this set, the former being faster and more powerful and the latter being much bulkier, forming a solid Regenerator core with Slowbro for defensive and balanced teams to fall back on. Offensive Snorlax can benefit from Slowbro's paralysis and burn spreading, allowing it to hit things hard more reliably. It should be noted that, defensively speaking, a core of Slowbro, Aromatherapy Roserade, and Snorlax is very difficult to break, but it just takes one misprediction for Heracross to sweep your team. Lastly, this set fears Toxic poison, so a cleric and a Toxic Spikes absorber can be useful. Roserade fills both niches, but Mismagius can also work on balanced teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Surf / Scald
    move 2: Psyshock / Psychic
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Grass Knot / Trick
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Unlike the previous sets, this one capitalizes on Slowbro's good base 100 Special Attack stat, hitting 472 with a Modest nature and Choice Specs. Here, it functions well as a bulky pivot for more offensive teams, but isn't as good on defensive teams due to the big loss in bulk. Surf gets the upper hand here instead of Scald, being more powerful overall&mdash;though if you need the burn chance, Scald is perfectly usable. Psyshock is a bit better than Psychic against the things Slowbro will be using it on (notably Snorlax), but Psychic still OHKOes standard 252/240+ Roserade after Stealth Rock. Fire Blast offers coverage against Shaymin and Bronzong that try to switch in on Slowbro, and Grass Knot rounds out the set giving it coverage against the ever-present bulky Water-types. Trick is an option in the last slot, though, crippling special walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Regenerator is probably more important here than on the other sets, since Slowbro is being used as a hit-and-run Pokemon without any other form of recovery. The EVs make Slowbro a full tank, investing in HP and Special Attack. The leftover EVs go to Speed to outpace uninvested Snorlax, Amoonguss, and opposing Slowbro. An alternate spread of 248 HP / 120 Def / 140 SpA with a Modest nature can be used to prevent Life Orb Darmanitan from 2HKOing Slowbro after Stealth Rock, while still reliably OHKOing Shaymin and Bronzong after Stealth Rock, but this Slowbro isn't meant to tank repeated hits anyway, and the standard spread already reliably counters Choice Scarf Darmanitan and Choice Scarf Victini, their most-used sets. Ice Beam can be used to hit Flygon and Druddigon for super effective damage, while also hurting Shaymin. Signal Beam and Focus Blast are other coverage options, hitting Umbreon harder than anything else, while also getting coverage on opposing Slowbro and Slowking and opposing Snorlax and Empoleon, respectively, but they're otherwise weaker than the listed options.</p>

    <p>As for teammates, a Pokemon that can spread paralysis is a great asset to this Slowbro. While Prankster users Whimsicott and Liepard are good at it, Togekiss is also an option with Thunder Wave or Serene Grace Body Slam, and double status Amoonguss can be used to form the BroMoonguss Regenerator core. Though Slowbro's ability helps most of the times, Rapid Spin support can be useful to prevent 2HKOs from turning into OHKOs with Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Hitmontop is probably the best option, being able to switch into Heracross's Megahorn and Scrafty's Crunch with ease thanks to Intimidate, while also not sharing weaknesses with Slowbro like Blastoise and Kabutops do. Finally, while not as mandatory as the Calm Mind set since this Slowbro is pretty self-sufficient, Pokemon that can lure in and KO Suicune and Milotic, such as Expert Belt mixed Victini and Rotom-H, can also be useful.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Slowbro has a surprisingly extensive movepool, both offensive and supportive. It can run an offensive Trick Room set, but that's probably better left to Slowking due to its access to Nasty Plot. Slowbro can also support Trick Room teams, however uncommon they might be, tanking hits and casting the move so another Pokemon can sweep with it. However, Bronzong can probably pull that off better thanks to learning Explosion and therefore having the ability to create a free switch for something like Curse Snorlax to sweep. It can also go offensive with Life Orb instead of Choice Specs, trading losing 10% health after each move for the ability to switch moves, but since it'll be forced out to regain health anyway, the sheer power of Choice Specs is almost always better.</p>

    <p>Outside of the listed moves, Slowbro can run supportive moves such as Yawn&mdash;acting as a phazer by forcing the opponent to switch out&mdash;, Disable, and Psych Up on the Physical Tank set, while having offensive option such as Ice Beam, Signal Beam, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast for the Choice Specs set, though they're generally inferior options to its main coverage moves.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Shaymin is probably the top Slowbro counter, not fearing status thanks to Natural Cure and taking just a little over 50% from Fire Blast&mdash;unless it's coming from the Choice Specs set. It can then proceed to KO with Seed Flare or set up a Substitute on the predicted switch. Roserade only fears Psyshock and Fire Blast, but it can come in on anything else and proceed to set up Spikes, put Slowbro to sleep, or outright KO it with Giga Drain or Leaf Storm. Scrafty can usually switch in unscathed, thanks to its typing and the fact that it generally either has Lum Berry or Shed Skin to cure it from burns, and can use Slowbro as setup fodder. This is especially true for Bulk Up variants, since they normally have heavy investment in Special Defense and take little from Scald and Fire Blast, while being immune to Psyshock.</p>

    <p>Slowbro has many common weaknesses, but many Pokemon can't switch in on it with ease without knowing its set. Once they realize what Slowbro's running, though, it becomes easier to deal with. Mew, for example, takes little damage from most of its moves&mdash;outside of the uncommon Signal Beam and Shadow Ball&mdash;thanks to its natural bulk, but fears status and has a hard time beating Calm Mind versions if it switches in while Slowbro sets up. Still, Nasty Plot Mew can usually beat any Slowbro set one on one unless it switches in on a status move. Some Kingdra variants&mdash;such as Substitute, ChestoRest, and Lum Berry&mdash;can set up on the physical tank all day, but they fear Psyshock from the Choice Specs set and won't be able to beat the Calm Mind version if they switch while Slowbro boosts. Zapdos and Raikou fear paralysis, but they can switch in on anything Slowbro throws at them and outright KO or set up a Substitute or Calm Mind in Raikou's case. Opposing bulky Water-types Suicune and Milotic can come in on any move Slowbro has&mdash;though Suicune needs Rest to avoid being worn down&mdash; and proceed to Toxic or set up on it. As most variants are mono-attackers, they won't precisely like being Tricked a Choice Specs and Grass Knot will also hurt them, but they won't be completely crippled by either move. Finally, Virizion and Heracross fear Fire Blast and Psyshock, but they can switch in after Slowbro has beat something and proceed to set up on it or KO it. Moxie Heracross and Lum Berry-less Virizion should be wary of Scald burns, though, since a healthy Slowbro won't be OHKOed by their STABs without setup. Overall though, Slowbro is quite powerful and not easily handled, but it can be worked around by exploiting the defensive sets' lack of immediate power and the fact that it's Choice-locked when using the Choice Specs set.</p>

    Skeleton (open)
    [Overview]

    • Great physical bulk and usable Special Attack stat, as always
    • Not much new from BW2, except for Trick and Signal Beam being legal with Regenerator
    • New threats to deal with in Virizion, Scrafty and Mienshao
    • Faces competition for a spot with other Calm Mind users such as Mew and Meloetta, the latter being immune to Ghost (though without a resistance to Fighting)
    • Low Special Defense and incredibly low Speed holding it back
    • Amazing ability in Regenerator making it a better choice as a Bulky Water opposite Suicune
    • Expanded support and offensive movepool give it different roles to play with

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Psyshock
    move 4: Slack Off
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Most used set; Calm Mind boosts its usable Special Attack stat and weaker Special Defense
    • It's not meant to sweep as much as it is meant to tank hits from both sides of the spectrum, but it can also work late-game once the things that counter it has been removed or weakened
    • Scald has the added benefit of burning possible switchins, while Psyshock helps it win Calm Mind wars
    • Slack Off is essential so that Slowbro doesn't lose its boosts to regain health back
    • Amazing on teams leaning towards stall, more offensive teams have things like Meloetta and Mew to choose from
    • After two boosts there are few things capable of 2HKOing it from the Special side, though one must look out on crits due to how they work

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • 16 Special Attack EVs make Slowbro OHKO standard 252/0 Roserade with Psyshock after SR before a boost, 248 HP EVs make it take less damage from Stealth Rock and the rest goes into Defense
    • Fire Blast can be used instead of any of its STAB moves, though it loses out on beating things it otherwise should in order to handle Shaymin better
    • As partners, something that can get rid of Toxic Spikes (however rare they may be) is mandatory for its success. Amoonguss and Roserade stand out, each having its perks over the other: the former has much better special bulk, Regenerator and access to Spore, while the latter can set up Spikes or Toxic Spikes, is faster and more powerful, is a status absorber and can use Sleep Powder, which though not as reliable as Spore, does go well with its speed to leave things out of comission (unfortunately, it's illegal with Spikes). Other options for a Toxic Spikes absorber are Nidoqueen and Nidoking, both of which being able to set up Stealth Rock and having more offensive presence thanks to Sheer Force
    • This set loathes status more than the other two (even full paralysis can change the outcome of a match), so a cleric is a good partner. Roserade, Umbreon and Mismagius are good examples
    • A paralysis spreader can also work. Notable ones, though gimmick, are Liepard and Whimsicott, due to having priority on Thunder Wave and Stun Spore, respectively. Double status Amoonguss can also work, since it can cripple another mon after Sleep Clause has been activated
    • Things that can lure in and take out Suicune and Milotic (especially RestTalk variants) are also great partners. Special mention goes to Mixed Victini, but Rotom-H can do the trick if it predicts the switch - no pun intended

    [SET]
    name: Physical Tank
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Slack Off
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Fire Blast
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Great on teams that struggle with Fighting-types - except Heracross, but everybody should have a Heracross check/counter anyway
    • Scald is the main move, being capable of burning the physical attackers that it's there to counter - unless they have a Lum Berry or are Fire-types, of course
    • Psyshock is a bit better than Psychic due to how most Fighting-types have better Special Defense on average, while also hitting Roserade on its weaker defense
    • Slack Off for recovery in case of a misprediction
    • Thunder Wave cripples faster things (so 80% of the metagame) that try to switch in and aren't immune to it - Ground-types mostly, and things like Lanturn, Pikachu (lol) and Electivire (double lol), Fire Blast can be used to hit Steel-types and Shaymin harder

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • 16 Special Attack EVs let it beat Roserade with Psyshock after Stealth Rock, the rest maximize Slowbro's physical bulk
    • Ice Beam can be used to KO Flygon, but a burnt Flygon is already good as dead so it's not that big of a deal (and usually it will U-turn out of Slowbro). It also has the added benefit of hitting Druddigon
    • Grass Knot hits Bulky Waters harder than any other move on Slowbro's arsenal, except for Empoleon
    • Roserade and Amoonguss partner up well with this set, the former being better for its Speed and amazing Special Attack (as well as access to Aromatherapy) and the latter forming a solid Regenerator core for more defensive teams, thanks to its great Special Bulk
    • Offensive Snorlax can greatly benefit from the paralysis spreading, hitting most things with a combination of Return and Crunch. Defensively speaking, a core of Slowbro, Roserade with Aromatherapy and Snorlax is very difficult to break, but it just takes one misprediction for Heracross to sweep your team
    • Lastly, this set fears Toxic, so a cleric and a Toxic Spikes absorber can be used. Roserade fills both niches, but Mismagius can also work on balanced teams

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Surf / Scald
    move 2: Psyshock / Psychic
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Grass Knot / Trick
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • This set capitalizes on Slowbro's good Special Attack, hitting 472 with a Modest nature and Choice Specs
    • Scald has the added burn chance over Surf, but otherwise it's quite weaker so Surf is probably the best option
    • Psyshock v. Psychic is up for debate. The former hits Snorlax for much more damage, but Psychic is quite stronger against the rest, still OHKOing standard 252/240 Roserade after SR
    • Fire Blast is fundamental to KO Shaymin, while also beating most Steel-types
    • Grass Knot hits Bulky Waters harder than anything else on Slowbro's movepool (though Psyshock is also quite strong), but Trick can be used to cripple special walls like Snorlax and Umbreon

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Regenerator is key here, allowing Slowbro to switch out and recover health in the process, to come back in and start threatening the opponent again
    • EVs maximize its Special Attack, with the rest on HP for more bulk. The leftover EVs go to Speed and let it outspeed uninvested Snorlax, Amoonguss and opposing Slowbro
    • Alternate spread of <insert spread here> can be used with a Bold nature to tank hits better; this is especially noteworthy when using Trick
    • Ice Beam can KO Flygon on the switch while also hitting Shaymin for respectable damage; it also hits Druddigon harder than Psychic
    • Signal Beam hits Umbreon super-effectively, while also helping Slowbro beat Mew and Meloetta (and still hitting Shaymin and Slowking / opposing Slowbro), but is otherwise a weaker option to the ones already mentioned
    • Focus Blast is its only option for hitting Empoleon (albeit 70% of the time), also being super-effective against Snorlax and Umbreon. However, Trick is arguably better against the latter two, and Slowbro should probably be better off switching out on the former
    • A Pokemon that can spread paralysis is a great asset to Slowbro. While Prankster users Liepard and Whimsicott are good at it, Togekiss is also an option with Thunder Wave or Serene Grace Body Slam, and Double Status Amoonguss has the added benefit of forming a solid core along Slowbro
    • Though Regenerator helps it most of the time, Rapid spin support can be used to prevent some 2HKOs from turning into OHKOs with SR and one layer of Spikes. Hitmontop is probably the better option, resisting Dark- and Bug-type moves aimed at Slowbro such as Scrafty's Crunch and Heracross's Megahorn, while also not clashing in typing like Blastoise does
    • While not as mandatory as in the Calm Mind set, due to being much self-sufficient with its offensive prowess, Slowbro surely appreciates Suicune and Milotic out of the way. Expert Belt Mixed Victini and Rotom-H are the best lures for taking them out

    [Other Options]
    • An Offensive Trick Room set is an option, but it's probably better left for Slowking which has access to Nasty Plot
    • Trick Room can also be used as a support move for other Pokemon to sweep with, however Bronzong can possibly do this better due to having access to Explosion, therefore granting a free switch for something like Snorlax to come in and set up
    • It has access to different moves outside of what's listed, such as Yawn, Disable, and Psych Up for support, together with Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast for offense, though they offer redundant coverage outside of a few targets

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Shaymin doesn't fear status, takes a little bit over 50% damage from Fire Blast and can proceed to KO with Seed Flare or Substitute on the predicted switch
    • Roserade fears Psyshock and Fire Blast (the latter only KOs if it's coming from the Specs set), but can proceed to set up on it, put it to sleep or outright KO it with Giga Drain or Leaf Storm
    • Scrafty can usually switch in on any move from Slowbro since they normally carry Lum Berry or have Shed Skin, while also being immune to Psyshock, and proceed to set up on it. This is notable for Bulk Up variants, since they normally have big investment in Special Defense which means Scald and Fire Blast won't do much
    • Kingdra variants that can shrug off status (Substitute, ChestoRest and Lum Berry) can set up on the Physical Tank all day, but they fear Psyshock from the Choice Specs set and won't be able to beat the Calm Mind version if it switches while Slowbro boosts
    • Zapdos and Raikou fear status, but can switch in on anything Slowbro throws at them and outright KO or set up a Substitute or Calm Mind for the latter
    • Opposing Bulky Waters Milotic and Suicune can come in on any move from Slowbro (Suicune only if it has Rest) and proceed to phaze it or set up on it. As most variants are mono attackers, they won't precisely like beings Tricked a Specs but they won't be utterly crippled by it
    • Virizion and Heracross fear Psyshock and Fire Blast, but can switch in after Slowbro has killed something (with Scald for Specs versions, since they're OHKOd by the other two moves) and proceed to set up on it or KO with their STAB moves
  2. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,788
    mention defensive tr in oo, hide the overview and put it in bullet form, looks good otherwise.
  3. macle

    macle ribbit
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,525
    Can you at least give examples of why to use it? Otherwise your post is useless...
  4. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,788
    okay then, sorry. defensive trick room could be used to support trick room teams, and slowbro beats fire-types, unlike bronzong, which gives it a decent niche.
  5. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    I added it (though I'm not convinced resistance to Fire moves is enough to use over a Pokemon that can possibly KO something with Explosion before giving a TR sweeper a free switch) and put the Overview in bullet point form - I thought that wasn't strictly necessary, sorry.

    Please, unless there's something really important that I'm missing, I'm gonna ask if you could wait to comment until this is ready for QC... Especially since I haven't done much, then feel free to give to suggest whatever you think deserves to be mentioned, and we can discuss set order, moves, another set, etc

    Thank you

    EDIT: The skeleton is now finished. Feel free to give any input now, especially for the Choice Specs set, it will be greatly appreciated
  6. kokoloko

    kokoloko &McMeghan: chef koko seasoning his games with some salt
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner
    UU Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,431
    Cool.

    On the CM set, mention how its not really a sweeper as much as it is a tank that /can/ sweep late-game--as of now it looks like it's meant to sweep which isn't exactly the case. Remove the mention of Flamethrower in AC, though, since it doesn't even do 50% to Shaymin (its only real target tbh) and Fire Blast is reliable enough. When you mention partners that can get rid of Toxic Spikes, be more specific as to what Amoonguss and Roserade have over one another and also mention Nidoqueen and Nidoking, who can SR.

    On the Tank set, move Toxic to AC and Fire Blast to the last slash. Toxic isn't as useful as it once was due to how much more offensive the metagame has gotten over time--not to mention that Slowbro's main switchins don't give a fuck about Toxic.

    On the Specs set, make it this:

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Surf / Scald
    move 2: Psyshock / Psychic
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Trick / Grass Knot (maybe this one should be reversed, but idk, other QC members should weigh in)
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    Move Signal Beam to AC for sure and mention how Ice Beam also hits Druddigon, who is getting a bit more popular now.

    Finally, remove all the stuff everywhere about using 0 Attack IVs. We don't specify IVs for the sole purpose of minimizing Foul Play and confusion damage.

    Once you do this and edit the skeleton accordingly, I'll be ready to approve.
  7. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    OK I did all those changes. I was iffy on both Toxic and Signal Beam so I had no problem taking them out. Is there any additional spread for the Specs set that could be mentioned? If Trick remains the best option for the fourth slot, it's gonna be really weakened once it uses it on both offense and defense I believe (not being able to tank things like CB Victini's Flare Blitz half as efficiently as the other sets). At least that's what I think, maybe I'm wrong.

    It's funny what you said about the CM set. For one, I used it a lot as a late-game sweeper, but when I looked at how I'd put it I didn't see my thoughts reflected there, it said that it was great for stall teams and that after two boosts it was hard to 2HKO on the special side, that goes more with the definition of tank than sweeper, lol. I however have now specified that its main use is not sweeping, so that there's no mistake there

    EDIT: Strange, I thought I had it like Surf / Scald... But done
  8. kokoloko

    kokoloko &McMeghan: chef koko seasoning his games with some salt
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner
    UU Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,431
    Keep "Calm Mind" as the CM set's name. CMBro sounds cheesy imo. You also forgot to reverse Scald and Surf on the Specs set (Surf should be first).

    Everything else is ready to go, though. Great job so far.

    QC Approved 1/3
  9. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,487
    Just saying, Mienshao is anything but bad for Slowbro. I wouldn't mention it is making life any harder for Slowbro at all, since U-turn does not very much to it. I'm pretty sure Slowbro counters it, so it Slowbro isn't exactly worried about that particular physical attacker.

    Just mentioning since its in the overview.
  10. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    I'm aware of how weak Mienshao's U-Turn is, since it can be healed off by switching out (LO U-Turn from Naive Mienshao does 39,5% top, which is just a little bit more than what you can recover with one turn of Lefties and the switch-out), but if you have to rely on Slowbro to counter it - which it does, of course, I've done it many times - you have to keep it fit, since it's most likely gonna U-Turn out early and mid-game if the opponent is any good, similarly to Genesect and Tornadus-T in OU except for lack of Download and STAB, but with Regenerator to effectively leave SR accumulation and LO damage behind. Because of that, Slowbro will have to be used with more care, since Gligar loses one on one against Mienshao with HP Ice, for example.

    Still, when I start writing it I'll be more specific about that if it's necessary so that there isn't any misunderstanding.

    Oh, and thanks koko for the approval!!! I'd forgotten to do it yesterday lol

    EDIT: Thanks, DestinyUnknown! I'm not sure what I meant with 'completely wall it' since they obviously don't, but maybe they deserve a mention as checks at least?

    One more to go! I must start working with Rotom-H tomorrow since I already let one week go by, but I've been rather busy...
  11. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,432
    I think Grass Knot should be slashed before Trick on Specs set. Oh and remove Meloetta / Mew from Counters because they don't ''wall Slowbro completely'' at all.

    QC Approved 2/3
  12. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,154
    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  13. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    Thanks, PK Gaming!!

    I'm gonna try to finish Rotom-H's skeleton and Slowbro's analysis during the weekend, but I can't promise much, so maybe this will take me a while...
  14. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    Bumping because this is now ready for GP checks. Sorry for delaying it so much!
  15. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    OK, bumping since this has been sitting here for more than a week
  16. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    GP check. Good job on writing this. Just a few comments on things I noticed: super-effective>super effective, don't put spaces around mdashes, and make sure your pronouns don't have unclear antecedents. Anyway:
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Slowbro hasn't changed much in the transition to BW2, having gained only the ability to use Trick and Signal Beam with Regenerator from the Move Tutors, but the metagame surely has certainly changed around it. With a lot of new powerful physical attackers in the tier, such as Mienshao, Virizion (add comma) and Scrafty, things aren't as easy for the Bro (read 'as') (these parentheses kinda confuse me; would you mind explaining what the stuff in them means?). With Heracross gaining Moxie from the Dream World, it has now become the nº 1 number one Pokemon in UU usage stats, which means that Slowbro also has to fear its powerful STAB Megahorn in almost every single match just from Team Preview even more matches than before. However, its extremely good physical bulk and awesome ability in Regenerator make it so that it can give it the ability to survive even super-effective (remove hyphen) hits and either hit back or switch out and recover one third of its health back. That and its 100 base Special Attack should really be accounted for taken into account, since they give it the an edge over other Bulky Waters, namely Suicune. With access to Trick Room and Calm Mind, it's not hard for Slowbro to change a battle battle's outcome, (change to mdash) especially with its many chances to switch in on the great number of Fighting- and Fire-types it counters, (change to mdash) while Slack Off can make it not lose its boosts in order allows it to gain health back without switching out and losing its boosts. Its low Special Defense and virtually nonexistent Speed still hold it back, however, especially since it faces competition from the likes of Mew and Meloetta as Calm Mind users, the latter having an immunity to Ghost – though lacking a Fighting-type resistance.</p>

    <p>Overall, the once extremely popular RBY Pokemon continues to be a staple of the Underused metagame, and can be a great asset to any team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Psyshock
    move 4: Slack Off
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the standard Calm Mind Slowbro, available since the third generation, albeit with the gifts it got from the two generations that followed. Still, it plays pretty much the same way, being a physical tank capable of boosting its weaker Special Defense and its usable Special Attack stat at the same time, similarly to how Curselax plays on the specially defensive field. The strategy is simple: switch it in on a physical move it Slowbro resists&mdash;Mienshao's Hi Jump Kick, Darmanitan's Flare Blitz, for example&mdash;and Calm Mind on the predicted switch to a special attacker. If it Slowbro manages to get a couple of boosts behind its belly, it'll be very hard to take out, barring crits critical hits.</p>

    <p>Though it Calm Mind also improves its Slowbro's Special Attack, it's really this set is not really meant to sweep as much as it's meant to be able to tank hits on both ends of the spectrum; that said, it can work as a late-game sweeper once its counters have been weakened, just like most stat boosters. Teams leaning towards Stall stall really appreciate Slowbro's power, being a nice tank on both defenses that can take both physical and special attacks– albeit (remove spaces around mdash) one with five weaknesses. Scald and Psyshock are its STAB moves of choice, the former having a 30% chance to burn the target, making it easier to beat&mdash;especially if it's a physical attacker like Snorlax&mdash;while the latter makes it able possible to win Calm Mind wars against things such as Suicune, (remove comma) or a Virizion that switched in while Slowbro used Calm Mind. Slack off (capitalize) rounds out the set, giving it Slowbro a way of recovery to recover HP without having to switch out and lose its boosts.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The 16 Special Attack EVs let Slowbro OHKO standard 252/0 Roserade with Psyshock on the switch after Stealth Rock, while the rest goes go into physical defense, (remove comma) to make the most of its bulk. Fire Blast can be used instead of any either of its Slowbro's STAB moves, though it loses doing so means losing out on beating things it otherwise should in order just (I'm suggesting this because, if you're saying though, I think you're suggesting that the stuff you miss out on is generally more important than hitting Shaymin and Bronzong) to hit Shaymin&mdash;and to a lesser extent Bronzong&mdash;harder.</p>

    <p>As for partners, Pokemon that can absorb Toxic Spikes (however rare they might be) really help Slowbro succeed. Amoonguss and Roserade stand out, each having its perks over the other: for one, Amoonguss has much better overall bulk, Regenerator (add comma) and the rare Spore, while Roserade can set up Spikes and Toxic Spikes, is much faster and more powerful, can absorb status thanks to natural cure Natural Cure, and can use Sleep Powder, which though not as reliable as Spore and unfortunately illegal with Spikes, does go well with its high Speed stat – unfortunately, it's illegal with Spikes. Other options for a Toxic Spikes absorber include Nidoking and Nidoqueen, both being able to set up Stealth Rock and having more offensive presence due to Sheer Force. A paralysis spreader can also work be useful to help get around Slowbro's Speed issues. Notable ones, though gimmick gimmicky, are Whimsicott and Liepard, both having access to Prankster to get priority on Stun Spore and Thunder Wave, respectively. Double status Amoonguss is another good option for spreading paralysis, being able to cripple another mon Pokemon after Sleep Clause has activated. Finally, things that can lure in and take out Suicune and Milotic (especially RestTalk variants) also make good teammates for Slowbro. Special mention here goes to Mixed mixed Victini, being amazing which is amazing at luring Bulky Waters and hitting them hard with Thunderbolt or Grass Knot – or (remove the spaces on either side of the mdash) the now available Bolt Strike. However, Rotom-H can also do the trick if it predicts the switch (no pun intended).</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Tank
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Slack Off
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Fire Blast
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is a great asset on balanced teams that struggle with specific Fighting-types – except for other than Heracross and Scrafty, both of which Slowbro can't reliably beat. Scald is the set's main move of the set, having a notable chance to completely cripple the physical attackers it Slowbro has to counter, unless they have a Lum Berry or are Fire-types, of course. Psyshock is a bit better than Psychic due to the fact that as Fighting-types have better Special Defense on average, (remove comma) while also hitting and it hits Roserade on its weaker defense. Slack Off offers it Slowbro a means of recovery in case it can't reliably switch out. Thunder Wave can go on the last slot to paralyse paralyze faster things (like 80% of the metagame, accounting for immunities) that try to switch in on it, but Fire Blast is an option to hit Shaymin harder.</p>

    <p>It should be noted that Slowking has access to Dragon Tail to not be set-up setup fodder, but Slowbro has the advantages of having higher natural physical bulk and being able to run both of its STABs on the same set, something Slowking can't do without losing either a support or a recovery move.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>16 Special Attack EVs let slowbro (capitalize) KO Roserade on the switch after SR Stealth Rock, while the rest goes to physical defense. Ice Beam can be used to KO Flygon, but a burnt Flygon is already as good as dead (and it will usually U-turn out of Slowbro). It can also hit Druddigon super-effectively (remove hyphen). Grass Knot is another option to hit opposing Bulky Waters bulky Water-types harder. Yawn can also be used in the last slot, being able to phaze opponents that try to set up on the Hermit Crab Slowbro</p>

    <p>Roserade and Amoonguss also partner up well with this set, the former being faster and more powerful and the latter being much bulkier, forming a solid Regenerator core with Slowbro for defensive and balanced teams to fall back on. Offensive Snorlax can benefit from the Slowbro's paralysis and burn spreading, allowing it to hit things hard more reliably. It should be noted that (add comma) defensively speaking, a core of Slowbro, Roserade with Aromatherapy (add comma) and Snorlax is very difficult to break, but it just takes one misprediction for Heracross to sweep your team. Lastly, this set fears Toxic poison, so a cleric and a Toxic Spikes absorber can be used useful. Roserade fills both niches, but Mismagius can also work on balanced teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Surf / Scald
    move 2: Psyshock / Psychic
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Grass Knot / Trick
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Unlike the previous sets, this one capitalizes on Slowbro's good base 100 Special Attack stat, hitting 472 with a Modest nature and Choice Specs. Here, the Hermit Crab Slowbro functions well as a bulky pivot for more offensive teams, but it isn't as good on defensive teams due to the big loss in bulk. Surf gets the upper hand here instead of Scald, being more powerful overall – though (remove spaces on either side of mdash) if you really like the burn chance, Scald is perfectly usable. Psyshock is a bit better than Psychic against the things Slowbro will be using it on (notable target being notably Snorlax), but Psychic still OHKOes standard 252/240+ Roserade after SR Stealth Rock. Fire Blast offers coverage against Shaymin and Bronzong that try to switch in on it Slowbro, and Grass Knot rounds out the set giving it coverage against the ever present Bulky Waters bulky Water-types. Trick is an option in the last slot, though, crippling special walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Regenerator is probably more important here than on the other sets, since Slowbro is being used as a hit-and-run Pokemon and doesn't have any other recovery, allowing to threaten the opponent more easily. The EVs make Slowbro a full tank, investing in HP and Special Attack. The leftover EVs go to Speed to outpace uninvested Snorlax, Amoonguss, and opposing Slowbro. An alternate spread of 248 HP / 120 Def / 140 SpA with a Modest nature can be used to prevent LO Life Orb Darmanitan from 2HKOing Slowbro after SR Stealth Rock, while still reliably OHKOing Shaymin and Bronzong after SR Stealth Rock, but this Slowbro isn't meant to tank repeated hits anyway, and the standard spread already reliably counters Choice Scarf Darmanitan and Choice Scarf Victini, their most used sets. Ice Beam can be used to hit Flygon and Druddigon for super-effective (remove hyphen) damage, while also hurting Shaymin. Signal Beam and Focus Blast are other coverage options, hitting Umbreon harder than anything else, while also getting coverage on opposing Slowbro and Slowking, (remove comma) and opposing Snorlax and Empoleon, respectively, but they're otherwise weaker than the listed options.</p>

    <p>As for teammates, a Pokemon that can spread paralysis is a great asset to this Slowbro. While Prankster users Whimsicott and Liepard are good at it, Togekiss is also an option with Thunder Wave or Serene Grace Body Slam, and Double Status double status Amoonguss can be used to form the BroMoonguss Regenerator core. Though its Slowbro's ability helps most of the times, Rapid Spin support can be used useful to prevent 2HKOs from turning into OHKOs with SR Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Hitmontop is probably the better best option, being able to switch into Heracross's Megahorn and Scrafty's Crunch with ease thanks to Intimidate, while also not clashing in typing sharing weaknesses with Slowbro like Blastoise and Kabutops do. Finally, while not as mandatory as the Calm Mind set since this Slowbro is pretty self-sufficient, Pokemon that can lure in and KO Suicune and Milotic, such as Expert Belt Mixed mixed Victini and Rotom-H, can also be used useful.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Slowbro has a surprinsingly surprisingly extensive movepool, both offensive and supportive. It can run an Offensive offensive Trick Room set, but that's probably better left to Slowking due to its access to Nasty Plot. It Slowbro can also support Trick Room teams, however uncommon they might be, tanking hits and casting it the move so another Pokemon can sweep with it. However, Bronzong can probably pull that off better thanks to learning Explosion, (remove comma) and therefore granting having the ability to create a free switch for something like Curse Snorlax to sweep. It can also go offensive with Life Orb instead of Choice Specs, trading losing 10% health after each move attack for the ability to switch moves, but since it'll be forced out to regain health anyway, the sheer power of Choice Specs is almost always better.</p>

    <p>Outside of the listed moves, it Slowbro can run supportive moves such as Yawn&mdash;acting as a pseudo-Hazer phazer by forcing the opponent to switch out&mdash;, Disable, and Psych Up on the Physical Tank set, while having offensive option such as Ice Beam, Signal Beam, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast for the Choice Specs set, though they're generally inferior options to its main coverage moves.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Shaymin is probably the top Slowbro counter, not fearing status thanks to Natural Cure and taking just a little bit over 50% from Fire Blast&mdash;unless it's coming from the Specs set&mdash;, and proceeding to KO with Seed Flare or setting set up a Substitute on the predicted switch. Roserade only fears Psyshock and Fire Blast, but it can come in on anything else and proceed to set up Spikes, put it Slowbro to sleep (add comma) or outright KO it with Giga Drain or Leaf Storm. Scrafty can usually switch in unscathed (add comma) thanks to its typing and the fact that it generally either has Lum Berry or Shed Skin to cure it from burns, and can use Slowbro as set-up setup fodder. This is notable especially true for Bulk Up variants, since they normally have heavy investment in Special Defense and take little from Scald and Fire Blast, while being immune to Psyshock.</p>

    <p>Slowbro has many common weaknesses, but many Pokemon can't switch in on it with ease without knowing its set. Once they realize what Slowbro's running, though, it becomes easier to deal with. Mew, for example, takes little damage from most of its moves&mdash;outside of the uncommon Signal Beam and Shadow Ball&mdash;thanks to its natural bulk, but fears status and has a hard time beating Calm Mind versions if it switched switches in while it set up and it fears status Slowbro sets up. Still, Nasty Plot Mew can usually beat any Slowbro set one on one unless it switched switches in on a status move. Some Kingdra variants&mdash;such as Substitute, ChestoRest and Lum Berry&mdash;can set up on the Physical Tank physical tank all day, but they fear Psyshock from the Choice Specs set and won't be able to beat the Calm Mind version if they switch while Slowbro boosts.Zapdos (add space between "." and "Zapdos") and Raikou fear paralysis, but they can switch in on anything Slowbro throws at them and outright KO or set up a Substitute or Calm Mind for the latter. Opposing Bulky Waters bulky Water-types Suicune and Milotic can come in on any move Slowbro has&mdash;Suicune needs Rest to not being to be worn down&mdash; and proceed to Toxic it or set up on it. As most variants are mono attackers (add hyphen between mono and attackers), they won't precisely like being Tricked a Choice Specs and Grass Knot will also hurt them, but not completely cripple them. Finally, Virizion and Heracross fear Fire Blast and Psyshock, but they can switch in after Slowbro has beat something and proceeed proceed to set up on it or KO it. Moxie Heracross and Lum Berry-less Virizion should beware be wary of Scald Burns burns, though, since a healthy Slowbro won't be OHKOed by their STABs without setup. Overall though, Slowbro is quite powerful and not easily handled, but it can be worked around by exploiting the lack of immediate power from the defensive sets, (remove comma) and the fact that it's Choice-locked for when using the Specs set.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  17. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    Thanks! The thing about the spaces between the hyphens was to differentiate en and em dashes, but I guess they can work either way. You did quite a thorough check, so I'll try to see what I can use in my other analyses too.
    One thing, I noticed many times you changed the pronouns for Slowbro, which is OK but I think it becomes too repetitive. Could you suggest anything else to replace 'it' with? I think I used the Hermit Crab Pokemon a few times, is that OK?

    Thanks!!

    EDIT: I said "read 'as'" because I meant to say that although they made its job harder, they surely didn't make it any less usable or outclassed by other Pokemon in any means. You're right that it can be confusing, so I went ahead and deleted it.
    There were a few things I noticed you missed out on that I took care of (mainly the first Bulky Waters on the Overview), but you did a great check! I'd like to know what should I replace those pronouns with in order to not be confusing nor repetitive, since apparently the species name won't work...
  18. Aurora

    Aurora am checking again lol!
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    557
    Amateur check.

    Just pointing out that the sentence after the first paragraph in the overview is meant to be moved up to the end of the paragraph; not kept where it is.

    Good work on the analysis!
  19. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    OK, thank you for the check, but there are many things there that I don't agree with so I'd like a bit more input on the subject before making the changes. Some stuff you changed seem unnecessary and conflict with the points I was trying to make, so I'm reluctant to change them. Also, not all hyphens should be em dashes, but that's another issue.
    Thanks anyway
  20. mikel

    mikel frizy will carry ocn
    is a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    971
    Just a question. When you say this, are you referring to:

    "...being more powerful overall&mdash;though" where "–" was replaced with "—"?

    If so, the — (em dash) is used for asides. The equivalent construction using en dashes is a spaced construction (in the example given, it should be "being more powerful overall - though").

    However, for asides, as per the Grammar Standards thread, "For unbracketed asides, use the em dash (—) and no spaces (Mareep—that is to say, the entire evolution family—is extremely cute.).".

    As such, the changes were correct, and the en dashes should be replaced with em dashes when used as unbracketed asides.

    Note that this post is irrelevant if you weren't referring to that (lol).
  21. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    If you go to my earlier post, when I referred to that, I said the following:
    So they were intended to be en dashes, but melvni told me to remove the spaces between them. What should I do? It's not the same when you are using hyphens as asides than to comment, so I wouldn't like them to be confused. Shall I put back the spaces aside the en dashes?
  22. mikel

    mikel frizy will carry ocn
    is a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    971
    If they were intended to be en dashes with spacing as an aside, replace them entirely with em dashes. Smogon uses em dashes by convention for asides such as that.

    2:40am grammar best grammar :)
  23. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    OK, will do that. I still thing they should be different, but I guess it's one of the things we have to agree on disagreeing with, similarly to Oxford commas and such.
  24. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    The reason I suggested changing those times where you referred to Slowbro as the Hermit Crab were because I remember reading somewhere that it's not good to refer to Pokemon as animals like "the bird" or "the whale" because they aren't really those animals, they're Pokemon. However, if you want to refer to Slowbro as the Hermit Crab Pokemon to avoid being repetitive (like you do a few times already), that's probably fine since that's its official species name.
  25. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    OK, yeah I realized that without the 'Pokemon' it sounded as if I was talking about an animal, that's why I added it when I changed them. I wasn't gonna leave it like that if it was wrong, though, I changed them before I found out that you had corrected the Hermit Crab mentions lol. Anyway thank you, since it was my first analysis you were really helpful.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)