Smogon's Stat Exchange

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Electrolyte, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Angel of mercy, how did you find me?
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    Approved by Arcticblast

    Smogon's Stat Exchange
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Hey there and welcome to the Stat Exchange tier! In this new metagame, a simple tweak causes some massive changes in both the viability of a majority of the Pokemon and some cool new strategies because of it. Here's how it works:

    RULES:

    • First and foremost, this tier plays like regular OU, but with a catch (which I will explain next). Uber pokemon / items / abilities are still banned. For now. The regular mechanics are still in play- each Pokemon still gets their respective ability and movepool, and the way their abilities / items work is still exactly the same.
    • Here's the catch. Each Pokemon's base defensive stats are exchanged with their base offensive stats. Here's what this means:
      ~Each Pokemon's base Defense stat will be swapped with its base Attack stat.
      ~Each Pokemon's base Special Defense stat will be swapped with its base Special Attack stat.


    And that's basically all of the rules to this new metagame! It might not seem like much, but the effects are huge. Common offensive pokemon now become defensive- for instance, Terrakion turns into a pretty solid physical wall, with high speed and moderate mixed offensive stats. Starmie now turns into a fast, special sponge, with its 100 SpA exchanged with its base 85 SpDef.

    A lot of common defensive pokemon now become offensive, too. The Regis are extremely powerful now- Regirock sports a massive base 200 Atk, along with decent base 100 Defense and base 50 Special Defense. Regice, similarly, now boasts a massive base 200 SpA, and fair bulk as well. Blissey is quite powerful now as well, since it keeps its massive 255 base HP and its ability to wall special attackers, but now sports a solid base 135 Special Attack, letting it sponge attacks and hit hard back. Here are some notable pokemon:

    REGICE / REGIROCK
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    stats:
    Regice: 80 / 100 / 50 / 200 / 100 / 50
    Regirock: 80 / 200 / 100 / 100 / 50 / 50

    The behemoths of the tier, both sport base 200 offensive stats, along with great coverage moves and fair bulk. Regice is frightening, with a massive base 200 Special Attack stat along with awesome coverage in moves like Ice Beam, Blizzard, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Focus Blast, or Flash Cannon means that Regice will be extremely hard to wall. It has BoltBeam+Fighting type coverage, which hits a majority of the pokemon in the game for super effective damage, making it a destructive force. Regirock is just as scary. A base 200 Attack stat along with EdgeQuake coverage and moves such as Drain Punch or Focus Punch as coverage, it too will be extremely hard to wall. Its lackluster base 50 SpDef can even be covered by plopping it on a Sand team, which makes it a powerful, bulky tank that is hard to wall and take down. Both are monstrous.

    BLISSEY
    [​IMG]
    stats:
    255 / 10 / 10 / 135 / 75 / 50

    Blissey, at first, might not seem as threatening as the two Regis because of its pitiful Defense stat and not as great Special Defense, but it too can be destructive if kept unchecked. A high base 135 Special Attack stat along with its world-reknown base 255 HP means it's both bulky and powerful too- and that's not all it has up its sleeve. Blissey has great coverage moves such as Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Grass Knot, or Thunder, letting it hit many opponents super effectively, making up for its 'lack' of Special firepower in comparison to the Regis. Plus, Serene Grace means it can paralyze its opponents with Thunder, making it even harder to stop. It's very bulky too; after all, 255 HP goes far even if its defensive stats 'are not that great'.

    SHUCKLE
    [​IMG]
    stats:
    20 / 230 / 10 / 230 / 10 / 5

    Before you point and laugh at Shuckle's new shitty defenses and still shitty speed, just take a moment and glance at its new offenses. 230 base Attack and Special Attack, even more than the two Regis combined, make Shuckle a powerhouse hitter that will destroy everything. Unfortunately, its paper thin defenses and close-to-0 speed can't be ignored, and with a typing that makes it weak to nearly all forms of priority, Shuckle won't be able to stay long. Trick Room is definitely an option, however, and if you don't carry priority on your team, Trick Room Shuckle will dominate.

    OTHER NOTABLE THREATS:
    Landorus-T- a base 145 Defense along with Intimidate makes Landorus-T a solid answer to two of the tier's powerhitting behemoths, Regirock and Shuckle. Plus, it has a good base 105 Special defense too, making it a good all around wall. It's no offensive weakling either; a base 90 Atk stat is still great, and with access to EQ and Stone Edge, it can easily check Blissey, Regice, Regirock, and Shuckle.
    Cloyster- It seems as if Stat Exchange gives Cloyster everything it wished for- an acceptable base 85 Special Defense stat, a monstrous base 180 Atk stat, and a good base 95 Defense stat. After a Shell Smash, not much is going to be walling Cloyster, as its Icicle Spear can just plow through everything.
    Azumarill- Azumarill also got a lot better. Instead of a weak base 50 Atk, it now sports a good base 80 Atk stat- which is still laughable, but when boosted by its ability, Huge Power, it quickly becomes a powerful attacker that matches the strength of Cloyster or Regirock. Plus, it gets powerful priority in Aqua Jet, which will be useful in taking down Trick Room Shuckle and Regirock.

    There are plenty more for us to look into. Joim's been a huge help and has whipped up a script that lets one compare pokemon based on their new stats. Thanks Joim!

    I can't wait to see what you guys discover and find! If you want to play this metagame, head on over to Joim's Lab on Pokemon Showdown!, create a team, and start battling!

    Here are some things you might want to know while teambuilding:
    ~Because Stat Exchange involves switching each pokemon's base stats, and not the numbers themselves, EVs and IVs should still be put in the same place as before. For example, if you want to boost Shuckle's Atk stat, put Evs into its Atk stat slot- not its Defense stat slot. Same goes with natures.
    ~Eviolite still boosts defenses.
    ~Choice Items still boost offensive stats.
    ~Stat boosting items still boost their respective stats.


    Good luck everybody! Be sure to post any ideas / pokemon sets you have in this thread! I can't wait to hear from you!
  2. apt-get

    apt-get HEAD SMASH
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    Nice meta.

    At first glance, Virizion is the new Keldeo and Cobalion the new Kion. Cobalion in particular will shine in this meta, 4x resisting Shuckle's STAB (so regirock's too) and can destroy the main attackers easily with its great speed and CB close combat/iron head. Meanwhile, Virizion is a good CM user, easily threateningblissey and Regirock.
  3. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Oh my lord. I'm going digging through the Dex now to compare stats.

    I have a feeling this is going to be a VERY bulky, Setup-Sweeper-Heavy meta due to the awesome Attack/Defense stats available on some things.

    I'll reserve this post to post a few interesting finds.

    • Kyurem-Black
      [​IMG]
      Stats:
      125/100/170/90/120/95

      Show Hide
      Kyurem-B Goes from being a bulky behemoth, to being a super bulky, slightly fast defensive pivot. Although it is weak to Priority still, 170 base Defense on a base 125 HP means even Steel and Fighting Types will have trouble breaking through with their Priority move, especially considering all of the amazing Priority users like Scizor and Conkeldurr are now swapped to be on the densive side, but we'll discuss them at another time. Even this new Titan, Regirock, with it's devastating Stone Edge STAB, can't quite nab the OHKO.

      Here's Honkalculator's Damage Calc for a base 200 Atk Rock Type using Stone Edge on a base 125/170 HP/Def Dragon/Ice Type.

      252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 320-377 (70.48 - 83.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

      Kyub still keeps its 95 base speed, which isn't completely awful considering most Defensive types in OU have lower base speeds (see all 3 examples posted by Electrolyte) which means Kyub can still come in with its usable 100/90/95 Offenses and punch a few holes in these new, frailer-than-DeoA, slow attackers, like Shuckle. Speaking of which, with TerraVolt, it even busts through those damn Sturdy Revengers you can expect from thing like Aggon, Rhyperior, and Shuckle.

      All in all, I see more defensive sets around for it, like SubShuffler with Hone Claws and Dragon Tail, working very well, as only the strongest attacks will be able to break through its stalwart bulk, even with it's semi-poor defensive typing. I can see it running Ice Beam as coverage for newly-bulky Landorus-Therian with it's high bulk and Intimidate, where Ice Beam does a good 69.1-81.67% even against Max SpDef spreads and can OHKO Fully Defensive spreads, whereas Dragon Tail does pitiful single-digit percentages, even after a Hone Claws boost.

      I can see Kyurem-Black being the new definition of Bulky Powerhouse. It's no stallbreaker anymore, but anyone not prepared to take it on will be very upset when it gets behind a Sub and starts shuffling out switch-ins with +1 Dragon Tail, or firing off Ice Beams and Dragon Claws from behind the safety of a Sub.

    • Cobalion
      [​IMG]
      Stats:
      91/129/90/72/90/108

      Show Hide
      As Sarkynin pointed out, Cobalion becomes an (arguably) better Terrakion, with a better defensive typing, better bulk, the same speed tiers, 1 less attack, and access to a STAB Flinch-Inducing move in Iron Head. It can even run a Pseudo ParaFlinch set with TWave/Iron Head and Close Combat for Coverage. Cobalion is also one of the few checks to the previously mentioned Kyurem-Black, resisting both of its STABs and threatening it with Close Combat for a 91.41% chance to 2HKO with Close Combat through Le

      It also 4x resists Stealth Rock, making it easy to bring in and out, and it gets Volt Switch, making it superbly suited for a VoltTurn Core. It also 4x Resists Dark and gets Justified, making it a great partner for anything that hates those types, and especially TTar's Pursuit trapping antics, as the opponent will know that this bad boy is waiting in back to come in on a Crunch and wreak havok. I could see it becoming a great Scarfed Revenger or VoltTurn Spammer, or even the aforementioned ParaFlinch annoyer. With its 91/90/90 bulk, it stands to reason that most people will find a spot for it on their HO teams, or on other teams possibly as a Bulky Attacker or even as a Bulky Pivot. It can't really run any type of Hidden Power surprise, as with a 72 Base Special Attack, and more than likely either an Adamant or Jolly Nature, it won't hit anything even 4x Weak for any real damage.

    • Dragonite
      [​IMG]
      Stats:
      91/95/134/100/100/80

      Show Hide
      Hang on here. 91/134/100 Defenses with Multiscale? Doesn't this sound familiar? I think it reminds me of a certain Ubers Wall.


      [​IMG] VS [​IMG]
      Lugia Dragonite
      106 HP 91
      130 Def 134
      154 SpDef 100

      Not QUITE as bulky as the great wall, nor as fast by a longshot. However, Dragonite gets two somethings that Lugia does not that sets it apart. Dragon Dance and Dragon STAB. After setting up one or two DDances, Dragonite can begin Roosting off damage sustained, or start spamming Dragon Claw, or it's steel coverage (Fire Punch/EQ), or can revenge things with ESpeed, while still being able to take a hit, even without Multiscale intact. It still cannot take any sort of strong STAB Ice type without Multiscale, something Lugia can usually do no problem, but it is seriously bulky and powerful, with great coverage and sweeping capabilities.

    I'll add more as I find them.
  4. Joim

    Joim This lulling sense of purpose will destroy us rapidly
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    I've made a script to order Pokémon in Stat Exchange by stat, so feel free to check it.
  5. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Lol Flareon's stat changes fit it soooo well. And wow everything that can hit well is so slow.
  6. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Angel of mercy, how did you find me?
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    Yeah, I've been messing with Cobalion; it's a great pokemon now. Iron Head + Close Combat solidly handles most offensive opponents.

    Trick Room is a fair strategy, but Trick Rooming against someone with a Shuckle can also be disastrous for yourself, so it's a tricky strategy to perfect.

    As much as it pains me to say, Rain is still pretty good. Azumarill and Cloyster are two solid Rain sweepers, and Regice / Blissey love having their Thunders hit with perfect accuracy. The numerous steel types in the tier also like having their fire weakness erased. I've been toying with TR Bronzong + Rain, and it's been working quite well.

    And thank you Joim for your link! I'll put it into the OP
  7. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Brilliant idea Electrolyte. Cobalion will destroy all >:)
  8. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

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    Wow really good idea Electro. A few of my buddies are making a team now and we'd prolly like to test it sometime :)
  9. Oglemi

    Oglemi #bananarepublic
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    lolling, even with Wailord's ridiculous 170/90/90 defenses, CB Regirock and Steelix still cut right through it

    252+ Atk Choice Band Regirock Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Wailord: 288-340 (52.94 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Also, Marowak with 110 base Attack is nearly as ridiculous after Thick Club.

    252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Wailord: 246-291 (45.22 - 53.49%) -- 35.55% chance to 2HKO

    Haven't played yet, but there's so many things that seem extra beastly with this effect, particularly Milotic (125 SpA, 100 SpD), Dusknoir (135 offenses), Gorebyss (some needed special bulk), Omastar (125 Attack), Uxie (130 offenses), and Ferrothorn (131 Attack)

    Trick Room teams look crazy with Shuckle, Bastiodon, Probopass, Bronzong, etc. to sweep in it lol
  10. PureQuestion

    PureQuestion

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    The joke is that Cobalion is now (regular) Terrakion with worse STABs.

    This is definitely a really cool idea for a metagame, I'll have to look into trying it out...
  11. Sound

    Sound

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    Why are you using Regirock? Aggron is where it's at. 180 Atk with recoilless Headsmash ftw. Tangrowth is the new standard for tanks, 100/100/110 defenses with 125 attack, sleep powder, and regenerator. It can switch into Azumarill quite well. Cress is also pretty nice, 120/130/85 offenses.

    Initial thoughts after playing several matches: The meta is very, very slow in general. It's easy to carry something like the aforementioned Cress to revenge kill the many slow threats of the meta. Revenge killing in general is good answer to most of the bigger threats.
  12. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

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    Lol Venusaur goes from 82/83/100/100 to 83/82/100/100. More powerful EQ I guess.

    Infernape becomes 76/71/104/71/104/108 so it's a fast defensive-ish SR setter/pivot. I'll add more as I find stuff.

    EDIT: Because Regircok does not have that quad fight and quad ground weakness.
  13. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

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    Definitely thinking about using Agility Skarm, and perhaps Mantine too. Rain seems really good, even with the mighty mixed Ferro.
  14. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    So I just saw this and haven't gotten to playing, but Kyurem-B looks flatout broken. So bulky! Also, from what I gather, most normally offensive pokemon become fast pivots, and that looks helpful in this meta. Luckily the heavyweights of the tier also have not very good speed, which means that they will be easier to take down, for example the Regis and Shuckle. Due to all the heavyweights being so slow, this obviously promotes bulky offense, but the aforementioned Cress looks like an amazing choice to use. Also, since stuff conserve HP stats, random stuff like Jelli look nice, abusing their decent HP stat with decent defenses and speed, along with pretty good offenses. Also Weak Armor Skarm looks deadly with an SD boost.
  15. Explorer

    Explorer

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    Two more of note:

    Porygon-Z
    85/70/80/75/135/90

    Porygon-Z becomes a fearsome special wall with Recover, playing much like Porygon2 does in UU and OU as a result. The usage of Barrier makes Porygon-Z a mixed wall.

    Rampardos
    97/60/165/50/65/58

    Rampardos becomes about as good a physical wall as Regirock is in NU with a base165 defense. Its options for status moves really help it, and it can use Curse to get its attack up to better levels.
  16. Manitary

    Manitary

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    [​IMG]
    With 125/130/130 defenses, a SubRoost set with Pressure seems interesting, also boasting a good 95 speed

    [​IMG]
    79/115/125, too bad he hasn't reliable recovery, Prankster Sub and Taunt would be amazing >:( and I think ChestoRest Bulk Up is disappointing

    [​IMG]
    95/135/110, Intimidate and Roost, this guy is interesting in my opinion
  17. Cosmic Fury

    Cosmic Fury

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    This is a great idea for a metagame, but there needs to be a new banlist for it, simply to kick out anything that is straight-up broken.
  18. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers BUT THERE ARE DREAMS THAT CANNOT BEEEEEEEE
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    Why do I feel this seems more balanced than the original OU metagame
  19. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Gyarados SpA is now higher than its Atk! Lmao!

    Landorus-T has 145 base defense and Intimidate, lmao.
  20. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Angel of mercy, how did you find me?
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    The metagame is still really new; after all, it's not even half a day old yet. For now, I'm just keeping the regular OU banlist, but that might change.

    We probably won't even need to ban anything. The awesome thing about this tier is, everything that's super powerful is also quite easy to check- for instance, all of the powerhouse threats I've listed above have extremely lackluster speed and at least one weak defense stat, making them relatively easy to revenge kill.
  21. AfroThunderRule

    AfroThunderRule I suck.
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    Keeping the regular OU banlist? Stuff like Blaziken, Excadrill, (Genesect?), Thundurus and Tornadus-T might need to be dropped :o
  22. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Forgive me if these pokes are noobish, but I am having a tough time comparing all the different mono-fighting types. Many of them have extremely high "defense" stats with a good amount of HP. While most of them do not have reliable recovery, they can make up for it with RestTalk+Guts. Since they receive the Guts boost when they are engaged in Sleep Talk, they can make up for their lowered attack stat. Right now Hariyama is my favorite out of the bunch (Hariyama, Conkeldurr, Throh, and Machamp). Low Kick+Guts 2HKO's Regirock. However if you want more consistent damage, then Seismic Toss is probably your better option (then you can use Thick Fat for more resists). Whrilwind is handy for shuffling.

    Hariyama = Most Bulky, phazing, but weak
    Conkeldurr = Least bulky, no phazing, but strong
    Throh = Bulky, phazing (circle throw), decent power
    machamp = annoying dynamic punch

    Hariyama (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts / Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Low Kick / Seismic Toss ?
    - Whirlwind

    This thing can switch in to most of unboosted Regirocks moves. It is extremely bulky with 144 HP stat + 120 Defense. It has a pitiful 60 attack stat, but it can use Guts to make up for it or Seismic Toss. Whirlwind is nice for shuffling out threats while Sleep Talking. The optimal Spiker to pair with this monster is Roserade. Roserade gets 125 SpD with the shift, making it a decent tank. Roserade can lay Toxic Spikes for Hariyama (it seems like a majority of the tiers threats are weak to them) and can wake Hariyama up with Aromatherapy. If you go with Seismic Toss, Hariyama gets some cool extra resists with Thick Fat.

    edit: How exactly do you stop Timid Rock Polish Regice??? BoltBeam + 499 SpA + Life Orb + 436 Speed = Broken ?
  23. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    This is a really cool metagame, I like it a lot. :) From what I've seen Cobalion is going to be everywhere. I also saw TheMantyke using a Fatmence and it did a ton of work, easily avoiding a 2HKO from FLCL's +3 Cobalion's Iron Head, which was pretty impressive. I was trying out a Cobalion set which was pretty cool:

    [​IMG]
    Cobalion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Thunder Wave
    - Iron Head
    - Close Combat

    Taking a page from the SD + Twave set on Groudon, this attempts to do something similar. Using free turns to cripple incoming switch ins before setting up with Swords Dance later on in the match. The metagame is pretty offensive so crippling something's speed is awesome and Cobalion can force many switches with its Steel/Fighting typing and STAB Close Combat. Twave + Iron Head is also nice if Cobalion needs to get in some clutch paraflinches.
  24. TalkTakesTime

    TalkTakesTime are you a youtube
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    Due to TR probably being significantly more prevalent in this metagame, priority and Taunt both will become fairly important to have on most, if not all, teams. A couple of candidates follow.

    Azelf becomes a fast defensive pivot with 75/125/125 defenses and 115 speed, along with access to Taunt, SR, dual screens and various other moves such as U-Turn to help it out.

    Something I suspect will probably get overlooked is Scizor. While initially it looks like it will lose out because its 130 base Atk gets removed, that fails to take into account that it gains usable 100 Atk and 80 SAtk along with incredibly useful priority in Technician Vacuum Wave and Bullet Punch. With threats like Shuckle, Regirock, Probopass, Bastiodon and Regice running around, this priority may come in handy, since a mixed LO set annihilates all of the above threats, as shown in the following calculations.

    252+ SpA Life Orb Technician Scizor Vacuum Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Probopass: 343-406 (105.86 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shuckle: 897-1055 (367.62 - 432.37%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Technician Scizor Vacuum Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bastiodon: 494-582 (152.46 - 179.62%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Regice: 369-437 (101.65 - 120.38%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Technician Scizor Vacuum Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regirock: 234-278 (64.28 - 76.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Scizor will also be able to take some physical hits with 70/130 defenses (252+ Atk Regirock Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 199-235 (70.81 - 83.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock), although its base 55 SDef is a bit of a letdown. This access to very useful priority moves make it a potentially antimeta mon, although I suspect Azumarill will overshadow it with its 80 base Atk boosted by Huge Power and access to Aqua Jet.

    Just some food for thought
    Zebraiken likes this.
  25. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

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    Shuckle as a lead with custap berry is almost guaranted to ko two things. Definitely a threat to watch for. Landorus-T is a bulky behemoth, with 145 def and intimidate theres no need to invest in it anymore so you can put everything on sp def allowing it to sponge special hits like theres no tomorrow. Dragonite simple doesnt die as long as you avoid stab ice moves. However it needs more dragon dancers in order to sweep. Tyranitar has been benefited greatly with 134 def and maintaining a respectable 110 atk. Though Choice Band and Scarf sets are probably a no-no in this meta its bulky sets are now capable of outstanding physical atks as much as well as special ones. Regice and Regirock need rock polish to sweep or else theyre essentially useless unfortunately. There are also other notable changes but ill play the meta more in order to have a better idea of what is going to be viable or not.

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