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Snake-in-the-grass

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Fantom0, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. Fantom0

    Fantom0

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    379
    Hello, all! I haven't actually posted a 5th gen OU team yet, so what better time than now? While scouting the forums, I picked up something interesting about Jalorda, who I never really thought much of until now: its DW ability. Yes, that's right, the great antagonist ability!
    Knowing this, I decided on a team based on Jalorda. Here goes...
    [​IMG]
    Voltolos @ Charti Berry
    Timid: 252 Sp At/252 Spd/4 Def
    -Thunderbolt
    -Volt Change
    -Taunt
    -Grass Knot
    Voltolos is one of the most effective anti-leads, thanks to a high speed, Mischievous Heart, Volt Change and a pretty good special. Taunt prevents opponents from setting up rocks, which is handy considering that I don't have rocks on this team. Most leads are either stopped or beaten head-on. Grass Knot flat-out beats Hippowdon, Swampert and a good host of others, where Thunderbolt hurts quite a few things. Taunt is for obvious reasons, and with Mischievous Heart, it prevents anything from setting up bar Erufuun. Band Azelf is tricky as you can never tell if it really is a Banded Azelf or just a regular lead, but either way, I just Volt Change for Shandera, who pins it and destroys it with Shadow Ball. Charti Berry gives me a bit of hope against the impending Stone Edge, although I might use Life Orb to squeeze a little bit of extra power. Always useful.
    [​IMG]
    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Bold: 252 Def/252 HP/4 Sp At
    -Calm Mind
    -Recover
    -Psychic
    -Shadow Ball
    This thing takes blows hard and dishes them hard. The bog-standard CMRecover Reuniclus never loses to a special attacker (that isn't also a CMer). Which is good, because I don't want to be swept by special attacking nightmares like mixedgon. This thing helps to form part of my offensive core alongside Conkeldurr (which, I'll admit, is fairly common) and (the rarer) Jalorda. Reuniclus covers Conkeldurr's psychic weakness, attracts ghost types for Zoroak and dark and steel types for Conkeldurr, and is also a great special sweeper. Reuniclus is also a great answer to sandstorm teams thanks to the versatility that Magic Guard can provide, which is also a great reason to use Life Orb. So, in short, this thing hurts.
    [​IMG]

    Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
    Adamant: 252 Atk/252 Sp Df/4 HP
    -Drain Punch
    -Mach Punch
    -Bulk Up
    -Stone Edge
    I know what you're thinking. Flame Orb on Bulk Up Conkeldurr? I know. But in short, Heatran hates this thing. And as soon as I am rid of Heatran, it is safe for Jalorda. It is also good to have something that absorbs status so well. Conkeldurr does this team a real favor, defeating special walls Jalorda couldn't otherwise, defeating the oh-so-annoying dark/steel types that Reuniclus hates, and luring psychic types for Reuniclus to set up on. The movepool is pretty standard, Drain Punch to try to keep it alive as long as possible, Mach Punch so Scarf/SpecsTran is dealt with more easily, and Stone Edge for coverage/a very powerful move. Thinking your Heatran can run over this team? It obviously hasn't met this.
    [​IMG]
    Shandera @ Choice Scarf
    Modest: 252 Sp At/252 Spd/4 HP
    -Shadow Ball
    -Fire Blast
    -HP Ground
    -Energy Ball
    You can run, but you can't hide... or rather the other way around when this thing hits the table. You just cannot run from this, nor can you outspeed it. It will KO something if played correctly, and that's unavoidable. Shadow tag is possibly the most frustrating ability ever, and ScarfDera is just a dream come true - a Shadow Tagger that isn't Wobuffet (or Wynaut). This one aims to come in on anything Jalorda could have trouble with, and destroy it just like that. Bug types, Heatran, Nattorei... anything that has 'Jalorda counter' written on it is just Shandera bait - and Shandera's the trap. This thing is an elephant trap at that. You've just got to be careful that it's not killed with Pursuit early on. The moves are pretty self-explanatory, although I prefer Fire Blast over Overheat for a more consistent STAB attack should it come to sweeping late-game.
    [​IMG]
    Zoroak @ Chople Berry
    Naive: 44 Atk/212 Sp At/252 Spd
    -U-Turn
    -Dark Pulse
    -Flamethrower
    -Focus Punch
    The aim of Zoroak is to search out your opponent's Jalorda counters - by actually being Jalorda. Most people don't realize it though: they throw out Blissey/Nattorei/Heatran/whatever, only to see a U-Turn in their face. Then Shandera finishes the job. Zoroak is great fun to play: when the team is scouted out, I use Zoroak on something that is otherwise Jalorda-weak, watch Blissey swagger out to suck up the oncoming Leaf Storm, only to be Focus Punched in the stomach. Nattorei flings itself in front of a Leaf Storm only to find out that it is, in fact, a flamethrower. I love it.
    And the fun doesn't stop there: Jalorda and Zoroak love to play mind games. They might expect a Flamethrower from Zoroak onto there Bloongell, so keep it active rather than switch for Nattorei, and are KOed flat out by Antagonist Leaf Storm. Great Fun.
    [​IMG]
    Jalorda @ Grass Jewel
    Timid: 252 Sp At/252 Spd/4 HP
    -Leaf Storm
    -HP Fire
    -Taunt
    -Substitute
    And finally the star of the show. Ahhhh, Antagonist Leaf Storm... It was love at first sight... anyway, Antagonist Leaf Storm makes Jalorda one of the most threatening sweepers on the game, as it pries on special walls. It can set up drastically fast whilst using a 140 base power attack with STAB. Jalorda's limited movepool is its downfall though, so I have Taunt (to stop Roar) and Substitute to block otherwise fatal status. As Jalorda has no fear of entry hazards itself, I love to simply set up Leaf Stoms on set-ups.
  2. Fantom0

    Fantom0

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    379
    Offensive Threats - This team tries to surpress offensive threats to the best of its ability. Here's a breakdown...
    [​IMG] Aerodactyl - Leads are shut down by Voltolos easily. I Taunt, then switch or Volt Change out. More offensive varients are, like, non-existant.
    [​IMG] Archeops - This thing can hurt if Voltolos doesn't still have Charti Berry or is hurt a lot. I guess my best hope is Shandera.
    [​IMG] Azelf - Voltols stops leads, although offensive variants - which are becoming increasingly common - may start my opponent on a right foot.
    [​IMG] Bisharp - Face it - with Roob going round, this thing's going nowhere.
    [​IMG]Blaziken - Man, SBs are annoying. Roob's my best bet, though it isn't always willing to turn out in my favour.
    [​IMG] Breloom - Zoroak survives using Chople and burns it with Flamethrower. If all else fails? Shandera.
    [​IMG] Chandelure - Zoroak. Sometimes I might send out Jalorda to bluff Zoroak, then Leaf Storm as it switches. However, there's the terrible sense of it revenging me, so I just stick with Zoroak.
    [​IMG] Cobalion - Roob sets up alongside it, uses Bulk Up to take whatever it can dish out, then hurts with Drain Punch.
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr - Reuniclus is this thing's worst nightmare. I generally see if I can get Calm Mind up, in case it chooses to switch for a Reuniclus itself.
    [​IMG] Darmanitan - This thing can be hell annoying. Shandera can be useful against it. Thankfully, it's not all that common.
    [​IMG]Deoxys-S - As a lead, Voltolos stops it, then Volt Changes for an appropraite counter.
    [​IMG] Dragonite - These come in all shapes and sizes, but it's simply Reuniclus for SPNite and Roobushin for physicalNite.
    [​IMG] Druddigon - This is an OU threat? Seriously?! Cuz it doesn't like Shandera at all.
    [​IMG] Eelektross - With no weakness, this thing can be quite hard to stop. I just go all-out and hope for the best.
    [​IMG] Electivire - Just hoping Shandera can deal with it.
    [​IMG] Emboar - Another Shandera hater. And not too keen on Voltolos either.
    [​IMG] Empoleon - Anti-leads really hate Voltolos: a Volt Change followed by a half-decent switch halts them quite quickly.
    [​IMG]Espeon - Magic Mirror is nothing to this team. Reuniclus beats it quite easily.
    [​IMG] Escavalier - With decent defenses, this is up to Zoroak to lure out and dispatch using Flamethrower.
    [​IMG] Excadrill - Roob can Mach Puch - although that's about it. If Roob's gone and Sandstorm's up, it's pretty much gg.
    [​IMG]Garchomp - SD Chomp is back - but Jalorda's Leaf Storm could knock it even further back. The diagnosis is simple: don't let it get up two SDs, and attack.
    [​IMG]Genesect - As a lead, I just have to switch for Shandera, who can take Ice Beam and U-Turn, both of which annoy Voltolos. If it locks itself into Ice Beam, I'm already one-up, unless it's a crit. Sweepers are also dealt with by Shandera.
    [​IMG] Gengar - Zoroak straight away.
    [​IMG] Golurk - Jalorda set-up bait. Dispatched really quick.
    [​IMG] Gyarados - Meh. I never liked this thing. Voltolos is incredible against stall versions, and Jalorda easily takes on DDDos.
    [​IMG] Haxorus - Straight to Roob to set up. A Mach Punch to that hideous face after a few Bulk Ups, and it's lizard soup.
    [​IMG] Heatran - Since Specs/ScarfTran became popular in the lead position, Voltolos has been having a hard time. Ones without Balloon hate Shandera, and ones with balloon are asking for their Balloon popped.
    [​IMG] Heracross - Shandera. As if there was anything better.
    [​IMG] Hydreigon - Provided I can catch it out, it doesn't like it when Zoroak Focus Punches it in the face.
    [​IMG]Infernape - SR leads are stopped by Voltolos, adn anything else is dispatched fairly quickly by Shandy.
    [​IMG] Jirachi - If I can Taunt it, it has problems. Shandera can pin support variants, although under certain conditions, Jalorda can set up reasonably easily.
    [​IMG] Jolteon - Set-up bait for Jalorda. That's all, folks!
    [​IMG] Keldeo - Can't do nuttin to Jalorda, followed by that dreaded Leaf Storm. Reuniclus has a good time against it, though.
    [​IMG] Kingdra - In rain, just don't let it get DDs up. Then it'll all be fine.
    [​IMG] Krookodile - Jalorda. Zoroak can Focus Punch it, Roobushin can Bulk Up then Drain Punch it to death. Shandera can revenge it.
    [​IMG] Kyurem - OMG, first cover legend (it isn't now, but it will be!) in OU! (Besides Suicune.) Without SR on my side, it's a real beast, coutesy of its mixed attacking stats, although Roobushin + Shandera = Goodbye Kyurem.
    [​IMG] Landorus - Sandstorm SD spells doom, though Shandera can hopefully stop it. RP cannot be stopped by Shandera, but the rest of my team has an easier time.
    [​IMG]Latios - Shandera. That's all I'm saying, Shandera.
    [​IMG] Lilligant - Sunny Day sweepers - like this - are a bit annoying, although Jalorda's HP Fire/Zoroak's Flamethrower are benefitting quite well.
    [​IMG] Lucario - SDs are a problem, although they can come in on Zoroak thinking it's Jalorda and try to set up. Anyone see a potential problem with using Lucario against Flamethrower Zoroak?
    [​IMG] Machamp - This thing's declined in popularity lately. Shandera again, though.
    [​IMG] Magnezone - Since there are no steels on my team, this thing is a breeze to beat.
    [​IMG] Mamoswine - CBSwine can always take at least one of my pokemon, so I have to play really carefully: if I switch out for Voltolos on a Stone Edge thinking it's an Earthquake, It could well be gg.
    [​IMG]Meloetta-S - I have absolutely no idea what these are capable of, so I,m going to say, Shandera.
    [​IMG]Meloetta-V - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Metagross - I do know what this is capable of - but same as above.
    [​IMG] Mienshao - This thing's not that bad. Defeat the rest of its team, force it into a corner, then deal the final blow. Fake Out/U-Turn anti-lead variants can annoy Jalorda's sweep to no end though.
    [​IMG] Reuniclus - Voltolos Taunts it, then my own Reuniclus sets up alongside it. Without any CMs, Zoroak and Shandera can deal with it.
    [​IMG] Roserade - These do not like Voltolos at all. I just taunt them, then Volt Change for a counter to whatever comes out next.
    [​IMG]Salamence - Meh. No wonder I like this. Roob's my best bet.
    [​IMG] Sawsbuck - Shandera.
    [​IMG] Scizor - Shandera again.
    [​IMG] Scrafty - This thing is so good at setting up. I just have Zoroak Focus Punch it hard, or Roob set up on it.
    [​IMG] Seismitoad - Simply set up bait for Jalorda.
    [​IMG] Serperior - Opposing Antagonists are driven mad by Shandera. As always, Zoroak can deal with them in a pinch.
    [​IMG]Shaymin - Shandera.
    [​IMG] Sigilyph - Shandera.
    [​IMG] Smeargle - Voltolos Taunts it, then disposes of it one way or another.
    [​IMG]Starmie - Rapid Spin does nothing really. Voltolos is just too good at taking it out, although, I generally prefer Shandera for its ability to outspeed.
    [​IMG] Terakion - Oh help. If I allow this thing to set up... my head comes off. Luckily, Jalorda is just too dangerous for it to handle.
    [​IMG] Thundurus - Shandera can revenge, though Roob's Stone Edge is a nightmare for it.
    [​IMG] Togekiss - Can't do nuttin against Jalorda/Voltolos. Hates Voltolos most though.
    [​IMG] Tornadus - Tormentosu? Voltolos. Something like that isn't going to even threaten Volty.
    [​IMG] Tyranitar - When I see this, I know there are worse things coming. My Zoroak takes care of it though.
    [​IMG]Venusaur - In sun, this thing can be pretty damn powerful. However, in sun, Shandera and Zoroak are both potent counters.
    [​IMG] Victini - Well, Zoroak and Shandera might have to team together, but it does the job. Reuniclus sets up on it pretty well though.
    [​IMG] Virizion - Set-up bait for Jalorda, coutesy of Taunt.
    [​IMG] Volcarona - If things thing even tries, Roob will flatten it with Stone Edge.
    [​IMG] Weavile - Taunt means nothing, and it's too easily killed by Shandy.
    [​IMG] Zoroark - Clearly, you can never tell this, but if I can catch it with my own Zoroak's Focus Punch....
  3. Fantom0

    Fantom0

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    379
    Defensive Threats - This team handles defensive threats really well - as shown here.
    [​IMG] Alomomola - KOed pretty quickly by Jalorda. Voltolos handles it well too.
    [​IMG] Blissey - Does not enjoy a Focus Punch from Zoroark, and Roobushin? It shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
    [​IMG] Bronzong - Zoroark and Shandera deal with it fairly quickly.
    [​IMG] Celebi - Hates fire, dark and ghost, all of which I have ready to use on this team. On top of that, Voltolos can stop defensive/CM versions with Taunt.
    [​IMG]Chansey - Same as Blissey.
    [​IMG]Deoxys-D - I hit it hard enough, then revenge it with Shandera when I get the chance.
    [​IMG] Cofagrigus - Really nothing to my team. Zoroark dispatches of it all to easily.
    [​IMG] Crustle - Not the best ever. Jalorda rips it to shreds.
    [​IMG]Dusclops - Voltolos Taunts it, then Zoroark sets to work.
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn - Volty Taunts it, and Shandera.
    [​IMG] Forretress - Taunt + Shandera, although I usually use Zoroark to scout, but mostly for its resistance to Payback (Sturdy is annoying).
    [​IMG] Garbodor - Volty again, but this time I can be just a bit more offensive.
    [​IMG] Gigalith - Since these things can only really run offensive sets, they often come out on Volty, to which I Volt Change for Reuniclus/Roobushin.
    [​IMG] Gliscor - Oh hell. Meh, this thing..... I just have to take the Fling with Roobushin then Zoroark.
    [​IMG] Hippowdon - As leads, they are often straight KOed with Grass Knot. Later on, Jalorda beats them flat-out.
    [​IMG] Jellicent - This thing can be quite fun to play against, as they never know when to expect Flamethrower or Leaf Storm. Never too tricky to beat.
    [​IMG]Latias - Taunt it with Volty, then batter it about a bit with Zoroark before revenging it with Shandy.
    [​IMG] Mandibuzz - Seriously, this never troubles me. Volty just hurts it, and even Roob stands a good chance.
    [​IMG]Murkrow - Vader. Beaten by Volty.
    [​IMG]Ninetales - Since I couldn't care less about Sunny Day, I just hurt it with Thunderbolt, Volt Changing out if necessary. It's what comes after that troubles me.
    [​IMG]Politoed - Same as above, except Volty's much more likely to beat this.
    [​IMG]Porygon2 - Ever since this got the Evo-Stone upgrade, it's pretty tough. Roob is good at beating it though.
    [​IMG] Rotom-H - Roob's Stone Edge tears right through it.
    [​IMG]Rotom-W - Jalorda set-up bait.
    [​IMG] Scolipede - Taunt it, revenge with Shandy.
    [​IMG] Skarmory - Doesn't like Volty at all. Is revenged by Shandy too.
    [​IMG] Snorlax - Roob's set-up bait. Zoroark can Focus Punch it too.
    [​IMG] Suicune - I generally go straight to Volty to Taunt, then begin attacking.
    [​IMG] Swampert - As a lead, always OHKOed by Grass Knot. Elsewhere, Jalorda sort of burns right through it.
    [​IMG] Tentacruel - TSpikes is really annoying. Reuniclus can set up on it though.
    [​IMG]Vaporeon - Taunt with Volty. Fairly self-explanatory.
    [​IMG] Whimsicott - Revenge with Shandy. Moderately easy to deal with.
    [​IMG]Xatu - KOed with Volty.
    [​IMG] Zapdos -Taunted by Volty, beaten by Roob.
  4. Fantom0

    Fantom0

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    379
    pictures updated. oh and for the threat list...

    Black - No threat at all to a little bit.
    Blue - Potential problem, but if I move fast and accurately enough, I can stop it.
    Red - Worst of the worst. Difficult to plan ahead, and am often forced to just spam attacks.
  5. ShadowSpeedRider89

    ShadowSpeedRider89

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    50
    Zoroark can't learn Focus Punch. At all. The only physical fighting-type moves it learns are Counter, Rock Smash and Ankle Sweep, none of which do too much damage to anything notable without more Attack investment. The Speed Drop from Ankle Sweep can sometimes be helpful, though.

    Also, shouldn't this be classified as an Uber team? With Shadow Tag Shandera being banned from standard play (according to both the standard and Smogon Pokemon Online servers...) I don't know, that's something the Mods get to decide.
  6. LeviLamprey

    LeviLamprey

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,158
    Apart from Zoroark's Focus Punch incompatibility, the team looks great. May I suggest changing Focus Punch for Focus Blast because FP is illegal?
  7. ToastTyrant13

    ToastTyrant13

    Joined:
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    2,116
  8. LeviLamprey

    LeviLamprey

    Joined:
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    Yeah, Togekiss can own Serperior, Latios doesn't outspeed if Chandelure has Scarf. Gengar kills Zoroark or at least may SubDisable if lacking FB. Archeops isn't really countered by Chandelure even if Weak-Kneed is in effect. Kingdra can destroy every member of your team bar Voltolos (maybe) and Perversity Serperior, and them too after DDing. (Assuming no Ice Beam on Serperior). Conkeldurr is countered by Reuniclus. Electivire has no real counters on your team. Chomp can be a very big threat if you let it get up any SDs, your philosophy about it getting no SDs is very optimistic and it is not weak to any of your Pokemon. But the team is still pretty cool.
  9. ToastTyrant13

    ToastTyrant13

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    2,116

    ???
  10. LeviLamprey

    LeviLamprey

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    I mean Kingdra might have Ice Beam and use it on Serperior.
  11. ToastTyrant13

    ToastTyrant13

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    OOHHHHH! Okay. XD

    Roobushin would definetley prefer Payback over Stone Edge in order to hit Reuniclus, Shanderaa , Lati @ s, Espeon, and Gengar for better
    all-around damage. And QQ, why so much unvestment in SpD? You'd be better off with 252 atk / 252 Atk / 4 Def.
  12. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
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    264
    Pretty sure he mean's 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def.

    Anyway, I agree with the comments above, especially when ToastTyrant disected your so called "threat list"

    If you honestly think that Togekiss can't counter Serperior than I feel sorry for you.
  13. ToastTyrant13

    ToastTyrant13

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    Whoah man, no need to feel sorry.

    Togekiss doesn't necesarily enjoy a heavily boosted STAB Leaf Storm, while I do admit that if it ended up 1 on 1, Togekiss would take the win with Air Slash/Flamethrower/HP Ice.
  14. Fantom0

    Fantom0

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    Dec 28, 2010
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    379
    Well I'm not exactly a pro in 5th gen, but yeah thanks for pointing all that out. I have Stone Edge on Roob for the extra power. Besides, not a lot resists fighting/rock anyway. Electivire is v. much a problem, so I just have to hope to bring it low enough to revenge with Shandy. And Togekiss isn't much of a concern as Voltolos is probably going to hurt it enough for Leaf Storm. You worry too much about Jalorda's weaknesses that you haven't noticed that Jalorda has fairly high defenses. If you think it is a major problem, how about some suggestions?
  15. Cooky

    Cooky

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
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    499
    Just going to point out some obvious flaws -

    Conkeldur should have 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD, its a much more efficient EV spread. Also change Flame Orb to Leftovers, its pretty counterproductive. By the way Spe is Speed and SpD is Special Defense. I do agree though that Stone Edge is a better choice all things considered.

    Jalorda should also have Leftovers over Grass Jewel given that it's running substitute and is weak to all forms of passive damage and entry hazards.

    Make Zoroak a choice set, probably Specs given the comparative lack of immediate power in your team, and replace the illegal Focus Punch with Focus Blast.

    Sorry, I don't have time to look at the team and synergy flaws, apart from the obvious ones in that you have no Stealth Rock (yes it is imperative if you want to be competitive) and no Dragon resist which is incredibly important.
  16. JSND

    JSND

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    This is how SUCKS Electivire really is

    Life Orb 252 WILD VOLT to your rankurusu
    41% - 48.3%
    Life Orb Ice Punch Adamant to Jalorda
    81.1% - 95.5%
    Life Orb Adamant Volt to Roob
    60.1% - 70.9%

    In return
    Roob drain punch + guts
    95.9% - 113.4%
    Mach Punch
    51.4% - 60.6%

    Jalorda LS
    NON jewel
    62.7% - 74%

    Scarf Fire Blast
    83.6% - 98.6%

    yeah you consider something THAT weak a problem.

    Just saying you need entry hazzard in some ways.

    BTW the only reason you can handle Crimgan is because you have roobushin and rankurusu since crimgan's biggest weakness is his unability to beat bulky pokemon.
    Shandera lose to Crimgan in a hard way and your jalorda is threatened by its massively powerful fire fang. In fact, it deserve blue check since you need those those and if they can handle them it pretty much gg FROM crimgan. You have 2 poke unable to SE crimgan while he laugh at shandera's scarf.

    Shandera shadow ball to 252 neutral crimgan
    43.6% - 51.4%
    LO sucker punch
    98.9% - 116.5%(almost Always OHKO)
    +2 un jewel storm
    48.6% - 57%
    fire fang
    93.5% - 110.3% times 130 %(always OHKO)
  17. Fantom0

    Fantom0

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    As I've already said, I'm not brilliant, and I came here to prove it to myself. I don't have the time nor the patience to actually go through every possible situation: I only did this team for a bit of fun. I hadn't noticed just how effective Crimgan is, but as you so rightly pointed out, Roob can deal with it.
  18. JSND

    JSND

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    951
    Yeah just change it into this :
    Drudigon - its rare but i have roobushin and rankurusu that can handle it. Otherwise life Orbed set can be troublesome
  19. Fantom0

    Fantom0

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    Fair enough. I suppose that's why I haven't seen any whatsoever.
  20. JSND

    JSND

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    Yeah anti fragile pokemon in Bulky metagame is hard to use effectively

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