Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
It's officially SPL season! Discussion on DPP OU in SPL XV and its players, the trends of the metagame, predictions are more will all be discussed in the thread throughout the duration of the tournament.
Auction results:
DPP OU players of each team (starters bolded, managers notable for DPP in italics):
Alpha Ruiners: Malekith, BluBirD Congregation of the Classiest: Pideous, BIHI Dragonspiral Tyrants: Dridri457, Mister Sauce, CyberOdin Cryonicles: mind gaming, QWILY, Dj Breloominati, Hclat Wi-Fi Wolfpack: Void, -Tsunami-, ABR Team Raiders: Skyrio, McMeghan Stark Sharks: twash, TDK, Aliss Ever Grande BIGs: Laurel, susciety, PDC, DeepBlueC Indie Scooters: Mishimono, Hayburner Circus Maximus Tigers: Le Don, M Dragon
last year i made a dpp pr post, which ended up being decently accurate relative to how those performed. gonna do the same this year:
1. Pideous
2. Malekith
3. mind gaming
4. Mishimono
5. twash
6. Le Don
7. Laurel
8. Skyrio
9. Void
10. Dridri457
1. Pideous - classiest
Pideous is just really solid. should have been drafted last spl. the jdi win vs a tough bracket & strong results in smaller tours, coupled with a consistent teambuilding style, sharp piloting, and high upside in support/collaboration from BIHI has him at the top of my rankings. even though i weigh past spl experience highly, pideous already feels seasoned and i don't think this is a strong factor that outweighs all the upside. he's the one to beat, but bc he's debuting this season the expectations aren't crazy at the same time. really looking forward to seeing his run.
2. Malekith - ruiners
it was hard to decide between Pideous and Malekith for #1, but they're close. Malekith is by far the most experienced dpp player in the pool, but doesn't have the same support that Pideous does and hasn't seemed to build in some time. that may be to his benefit, however, because when he was bringing original teams, some of them were crazy LOL. this classic he showed that he was using more solid teams, albeit known, and piloting them with razor sharp precision. he's the strongest and most experienced pilot in this pool, so it'll be really interesting to see if his teams fall within unhinged originality, solid reuses, or a combination of both. i'm expecting a strong campaign nonetheless, although he seemed tilted after the classic run and didn't do so well in scl. as long as his mentality is there, he's gonna do great.
3. mind gaming - cryonicles
last year, i praised anti, an almost complete outsider to dpp, as the #1 ranked due to his overall prowess as a player; however, while mind gaming is one of the best players on the website atm, i can't say the same thing here. anti at least has some old gens basis/had a bit of dpp experience and interest. i have no idea where mind falls on that spectrum. this seems like some big brained plan to finesse him in dpp for a smaller price, but it doesn't really add up to me. idk i don't see the magic happening. there's no one on the team who can help him in the tier, and as i mentioned last year, dpp is notoriously unfriendly to mainers in the teambuilder. i think he's a superb player who will probably do well, but there's just no way he's gonna repeat anti's 9-1. and if the pool were stronger, he'd be ranked lower. ofc he can make me eat my words. he either does pretty well or starts out like 0-2 and hates his life having to play this tier and, well, who knows what will happen LOL. him being ranked #3 in this pool suggests it will work to some extent, although i don't really know if he'll move to sv in playoffs bc they don't have anyone who can practically flex in here to take his place. overall weird situation and biggest question mark to me, but good enough player overall to where he deserves a high rank.
4. Mishimono - scooters
Mishimono had a really good year in dpp. deep run in dpp cup, won rising stars, finals of circuit, and probably other small tours. he's been inconspicuously grinding this tier for a while, too. i think he has access to pretty good teams and support solely off his social connections, and he's not a new team tournament player by any means. i think he's really solid. he uses good teams, pilots well, and has defeated several noteworthy dpp players in tournaments. in a pool like this, i don't think it'll be easy to punish someone using really solid teams the way mish has in tours this year. i'm high on mish overall and expect a pretty decent performance here. it can backfire because his team didn't actually draft him any support, though. expecting a 5-4 or 6-3 regular season record if it doesn't backfire; would be a bit surprised to see him go negative.
5. twash - sharks
twash had strong performances in dpp this year in circuit and classic. i wasn't sure which tier he'd end up playing in spl, but it's nice to see someone sticking to their crazy style. it really does feel like watching a 2009/10 dpp player balling out with unseen mons like alakazam and drifblim. he's definitely quite solid, but it's super hard to tell how he will perform in an official teamtour once more. he may be the type of player who excels more in individual tournaments, as the landscapes can be very different, and the bigs have left him mostly to his own devices compared to other teams which have more dpp support, so we'll have to see how he performs. he'll get some wins, but could just as easily see 3-6 as 6-3, it's pretty unpredictable to me. the glass cannon of the pool, high upside but perhaps low floor despite his skills being undeniable.
somehow the only returning player. last year, i pegged twash as a player who could easily 3-6 or 6-3, and questioned how he would perform in an official bo1 teamtour after seeing his insane teams and strong performances in bo3 dpp. well, he ended up 3-6, but it was after a rough start to the season getting his footing. this year, i think it's gonna go much better. twash has been loading more consistent teams this year while keeping his wild side in the builder intact. he has a lot of experience and winning dpp cup was super impressive. i don't think he'll be as much of a glass cannon and he seems to be on an environment that will give him a bit more support than he previously had. i'm expecting a 5-4/4-5/6-3 record in that order of likelihood.
6. Le Don - tigers
Hippo le don the don Le Don has finally made it into spl after narrowly missing out last year. had a great year in dpp, going like 8-1 in roapl i think? and a strong losers run in jdi after losing round 1. he's really good honestly. i think he's still a bit rough around the edges as a builder but the motivation seems really high. i think it's difficult to predict how well he'll do. he could destroy the pool but also end up struggling to find his footing. he has M Dragon around to bounce ideas off of, but it's hard to tell how cohesive they'll be. i suspect he added a french buddy of his to the chat or something LOL. either way, he's really good and showed a lot of promise this year, especially being very self-sufficient. but he's ranked here off of inexperience and ambiguity for how well he will adapt to spl.
7. Laurel - bigs
Laurel is a bit of a wildcard to me. he's mostly self-sufficient (although I know he had help from Fakes last year in semis). pretty decent showing in jdi with some insane games. but a lot of his builds are pretty bizarre/outdated. Laurel has what it takes to get up to date with the metagame, but i think it's more likely we see a lot of unusual teams that may or may not be up to date. he has dbc as a manager to help guide him, and interestingly enough, i think both of them have some similarities as players/builders. it'll be interesting to see how well they work together. Laurel is good and has a decently high ceiling if he's super motivated and actively trying to get ahead of the meta, but i think he needs to spend a bit of time getting to the modern meta first. still, the upside is there bc of his history with the tier, especially with the advantage of managerial support. i think he can and isn't unlikely to do decently, but he hasn't shown as much as the 6 i ranked above him. worth mentioning his 2-0 in spl last year (1 win in poffs) was not a fluke. i also have to give him credit bc some of his games this past year were really impressive (thinking g3 vs Christo in jdi). let's see how he does with a full season.
8. Skyrio - raiders
much to Raiza and Tricking's dismay, i wrote about Skyrio here when highlighting potentially lesser known dpp players. he's really solid as an overall up and coming player and seems to have access to good support via social connections. not really any drafted support on the team. i selected him for rising stars bc student of sinnoh heavily vouched for him and i liked what i saw of him in other smaller dpp tournaments. i'm surprised the raiders clocked him as a dpp but i really like the buy. despite this ranking, just solely off of others above him having more official experience/results in the tier, i think Skyrio is a dark horse that is likely to make waves in this pool. my bets are that he does well, especially if he receives outside of team support. idk what his official ranking will be but expect this slot to exceed expectations.
9. Void - wolfpack
the voat...great guy and talented player. historically had some amazing showings in dpp, perhaps thanks to his partner in crime, rui, who partnered with him perfectly. these days, he seems to be picked up as a later auction choice with the assumption that he needs a lot of help in the teambuilder. this probably still holds true. last time i saw void play spl was when he loaded nidoqueen + slowbro trying to cteam shake using machamp...only for shake to load machamp anyway and still win the game. in other words, his last spl campaign was rough. i think it's hard to expect this one to go a lot better, honestly. it doesn't seem like he has access to notable support. after rui, he had help from the likes of M Dragon, BKC, etc. you can't assume Star/ABR are gonna do much, though. last time ABR built a dpp team for spl, it lost turn 1 vs hitmonlee lead. not to mention, he and Star will be occupied supporting a lot of other slots. idk, Void has a lot of potential in general and can definitely make me eat my words, but i can't see this one going that well, especially considering the wolfpack last year had a 1-8 spl campaign wherein lack of reliable support/chemistry was a contributing factor.
10. Dridri457 - tyrants
this pick seems like it occurred due to lack of more obvious options in the pool and only bc he won the circuit without other context and looking into the matches. no disrespect, winning a circuit after not playing dpp for very long is actually really impressive. Dridri shows a promising future in dpp if he continues playing it. however, i think it's a huge risk to immediately start someone so green with no results other than a circuit tour, wherein, besides beating mish in finals, he didn't face noteworthy opposition. team choices looked suspect. i guess Sharow gave him some teams? Sharow's really good at cooking food at his restaurant but not so sure about his ability to cook good dpp teams lol. well either way, i'm being a hater just for jokes there. realistically, we've seen the bottom ranked dpp player in a pool go on a strong campaign and surprise everyone. Dridri is really good considering how long he's played this tier for. i think he's gonna have a lot to prove in this pool, and i would not be surprised to see him with a good record making me eat my words. that said, i don't think the odds are that high, especially if he's ripping teams off the rate my team forum like he did for some of his circuit games. that said, rey has a knack for making off the wall picks like this work, and he's on a team with a strong history in spl...who knows really LOL. and being a wildcard like this can be an advantage for sure.
hope i don't come off too critical. a lot of what i said is not that serious and in jest. i'm assuming no one will take this personally lol. as i said last year, best of luck to all, hope y'all found the read interesting/entertaining and anyone can do well!
1. Pideous 2. Le goat 3. twash 4. Laurel; the rest r irrelevant I only care about my goats
In seriousness I am sad a few ppl who easily have the qualifications to at least be subs didn't make it, also the fact some players who should've signed up but didnt. But this is why I mentally prefer DPPL, Which shows more skill in a DPP Team environment imo
Glad Le don and Pideous got their chances; they are certified big brain players and will school some kids here.
For my part, I will not do PR, since I do not know the level of some, but I am aware that they are all very good. As always, there is level and new faces, like Dridri547. I think he will do well. I imagine that he will be motivated and eager to demonstrate. I don't know if he is here to win that circuit using other people's teams, but he has shown the level to have the opportunity. And well, as a good Spaniard we will have to support Malekith, who has already shown what he is capable of against several important players who dominate DPPOU. He always seemed to me to be a great player who knows how to calculate times and, also, every time he uses something original, he manages to make sense of it.
Gl to everyone. The truth is that all teams have this well covered.
last week i got 2/5 predictions correct (predicted skyrio and void to win). this thread's boring af so let's get a couple predicts in here
[BIG] Laurel vs Pideous [CLA]
[SHA] twash vs Malekith [RUI]
[TIG] Le Don vs Skyrio [RAI]
[TYR] Dridri457 vs mind gaming [CRY]
[SCO] Mishimono vs Void [WOL]
[BIG] Laurel vs Pideous [CLA] - both brought good teams last week but made some mistakes ingame. the former was low on time and made a mistake midgame while the latter messed up the opening. laurel is more experienced in an spl setting and his w1 bring + some of the plays he made show potential for a good record, but pideous had the better midgame and openings should be easier to correct in the short term. gonna go with pideous but it's a close mu
[SHA] twash vs Malekith [RUI] - i thought twash had some greedy sets (no knock clef) but overall had a pretty decent mu. didn't love some of his plays altho he turned it up endgame with smart flygon maneuvers. still, mixgon + clef + spikes against that team gave him a strong advantage and despite some misfortune i think he should have walked away with that (ie. skarm should have stacked more layers, plays around the cune were a bit suboptimal, etc). malekith did a good job to capitalize on a misplay last week and overall looked solid. his team looked pretty weak to fighters, granted it did ignore some unmons like lucario which i can't ever blame someone for. this mu is interesting to me bc i feel like these players are the most similar to each other out of anyone in the pool. i'm hoping for them to both be in their comfort zone in this mu as it's evident to me that twash is less comfortable with defensive teams than his signature against the grain offenses. i think in this kind of mu during an early spl week, twash techs will be effective and are likely to throw malekith off, despite the fact that kith is the more intuitive predict.
[TIG] Le Don vs Skyrio [RAI] - le don had the best showing last week both in teambuilding and in piloting. it's not easy on your debut to face one of the best players on the site, use a defensive team, and pilot an airtight game. seriously impressive stuff. skyrio had a solid showing by outplaying twash in a bit of a hard matchup, which was also a good debut. they faced in rising stars and skyrio won, so i think le don will get his revenge here. highlight of the week for sure.
[TYR] Dridri457 vs mind gaming [CRY] - dridri had a nice debut. although i didn't like the team choice, i thought he played well. after watching more of his games, i really like his playstyle and think he can be a dark horse this tour. mind's start is very reminiscent of anti's last year. the team had a lot of issues and he's pretty new to dpp. i'm expecting him to not have as much of a mu disadvantage this week and think he will bounce back.
[SCO] Mishimono vs Void [WOL] - both players ran the same team last week and are thus likely to lack the same support they received last week. void had the better showing. mish had kith on the ropes but failed to keep tempo and secure the win as healing wish gave last mon empo the perfect setup to take the game. my gut says that mish won't go 0-2 and will improve his gameplay after learning from his w1 mistake. seems super 50/50 to me altho void has way more dpp experience and played a solid game last week. gonna be a bit uphill for mish in that sense but i think he'll pull through.
I love to see lead Zong, I run it myself and I think its underrated. Yes it gets taunted by Azelf and Aerodactyl but just gyro ball them in the face, Zong lead truly plays itself in a big way so you dont have to stake too much on early prediction. I assume it was running heatproof here and Pideous didn't want to risk attacking Zong with a fire move for it to be SpDef and heatproof. Personally I might have gone for it anyways. Chipping Zong would have revealed whether or not it runs leftovers and if you know it doesn't run leftovers its more safe to assume it has Lum.
Turn 3 we see the mistake Excal refers to (I assume) where Pideous spores Zong just for it to eat the Lum Berry and explode Breloom . I'd hate to play Pideous's position after T3 here. The position is still 5v5 with rocks up for both sides but Heatran has no item and is severely chunked.
Turn 6 Dridri makes an excellent switch into Swampert from Rotom which takes a lot of courage to make because you want to get some value out of your Rotom after paying such a steep price to switch it in. Pideous went for the waterfall on switch-in rather than a dance which is the correct play. A dance would have been a waste of tempo, but instead correctly he chunks the scarf-Rotom on switch. I'd like to point out that CB Gyara would have put Rotom in stealth rock range and I think CB Gyara is an underrated set.
Turn 9 Pideous actually does go for the dance this time, predicting that Dridri doesn't want to risk losing Rotom on a waterfall. Latias comes in instead. Latias falls on T12 but manages to paralyze Gyara and leave it on a sliver of health. At this point Dridri has 4 mons left, Rotom is chipped but scarf'd so still has potential to get its value. Swampert is chipped but not terribly. Pideous has 5, but Gyara is going down. His TTar and Heatran are severely chipped, but Pideous should get some compensation because he gets to choose his replacement for Gyara after Dridri chooses his replacement for Latias. So I still prefer Dridri's position here, but Pideous does have some possible initiative.
Turn 16 Dridri did the old but good ADV trick of protect recovering the Swampert. Presumably, Dridri is afraid of an HP:Grass from Heatran (even though Pideous just fire-blasts on the protect). So Dridri goes into DNite(!) and Pideous reveals that he probably does not have the HP:Grass (or is making crazy bluffs and predictions out of his mind).
Turn 17 Pideous swaps Heatran into Tyranitar(?!) and Dridri reveals a LO mixed set with super power. TTar easily falls despite the chople berry. I think this switch is a mistake. I guess Pideous was predicting a DD set and wanted to get TTar in to stone-edge the Dnite. I think the game was over before this turn. Its evident that Pideous didn't have a good answer for Swampert after Breloom fell. The swap into TTar means that TTar falls instead of Heatran but I think TTar still had more potential bulk/value than the Heatran did, and its unclear how TTar was going to stop a DD sweep anyways.
Turn 19 Metagross has replaced Dnite, develops an agility and sweeps the rest of Pideous's team.
---
Its unclear whether or not Pideous's Jirachi ran grass-knot, but I would assume it does not since he opted to swap in Gyarados instead of 1v1'ing the Swampert. If he did in fact have knot, I think it was correct to just hit the Swampert with it. Its possible Dridri mispredicts and doesn't EQ in that scenario. Either way, that is likely the best chance of removing Swampert. If he didn't have knot, then I think the game was somewhat over on turn 3 when Breloom went down.
Also if Pideous's Rotom were bulky instead of scarf, he could have stalled out Swampert and Metagross, he just would have needed to answer the opposing scarf Rotom.
I love to see lead Zong, I run it myself and I think its underrated. Yes it gets taunted by Azelf and Aerodactyl but just gyro ball them in the face, Zong lead truly plays itself in a big way so you dont have to stake too much on early prediction. I assume it was running heatproof here and Pideous didn't want to risk attacking Zong with a fire move for it to be SpDef and heatproof. Personally I might have gone for it anyways. Chipping Zong would have revealed whether or not it runs leftovers and if you know it doesn't run leftovers its more safe to assume it has Lum.
Turn 3 we see the mistake Excal refers to (I assume) where Pideous spores Zong just for it to eat the Lum Berry and explode Breloom . I'd hate to play Pideous's position after T3 here. The position is still 5v5 with rocks up for both sides but Heatran has no item and is severely chunked.
Turn 6 Dridri makes an excellent switch into Swampert from Rotom which takes a lot of courage to make because you want to get some value out of your Rotom after paying such a steep price to switch it in. Pideous went for the waterfall on switch-in rather than a dance which is the correct play. A dance would have been a waste of tempo, but instead correctly he chunks the scarf-Rotom on switch. I'd like to point out that CB Gyara would have put Rotom in stealth rock range and I think CB Gyara is an underrated set.
Turn 9 Pideous actually does go for the dance this time, predicting that Dridri doesn't want to risk losing Rotom on a waterfall. Latias comes in instead. Latias falls on T12 but manages to paralyze Gyara and leave it on a sliver of health. At this point Dridri has 4 mons left, Rotom is chipped but scarf'd so still has potential to get its value. Swampert is chipped but not terribly. Pideous has 5, but Gyara is going down. His TTar and Heatran are severely chipped, but Pideous should get some compensation because he gets to choose his replacement for Gyara after Dridri chooses his replacement for Latias. So I still prefer Dridri's position here, but Pideous does have some possible initiative.
Turn 16 Dridri did the old but good ADV trick of protect recovering the Swampert. Presumably, Dridri is afraid of an HP:Grass from Heatran (even though Pideous just fire-blasts on the protect). So Dridri goes into DNite(!) and Pideous reveals that he probably does not have the HP:Grass (or is making crazy bluffs and predictions out of his mind).
Turn 17 Pideous swaps Heatran into Tyranitar(?!) and Dridri reveals a LO mixed set with super power. TTar easily falls despite the chople berry. I think this switch is a mistake. I guess Pideous was predicting a DD set and wanted to get TTar in to stone-edge the Dnite. I think the game was over before this turn. Its evident that Pideous didn't have a good answer for Swampert after Breloom fell. The swap into TTar means that TTar falls instead of Heatran but I think TTar still had more potential bulk/value than the Heatran did, and its unclear how TTar was going to stop a DD sweep anyways.
Turn 19 Metagross has replaced Dnite, develops an agility and sweeps the rest of Pideous's team.
---
Its unclear whether or not Pideous's Jirachi ran grass-knot, but I would assume it does not since he opted to swap in Gyarados instead of 1v1'ing the Swampert. If he did in fact have knot, I think it was correct to just hit the Swampert with it. Its possible Dridri mispredicts and doesn't EQ in that scenario. Either way, that is likely the best chance of removing Swampert. If he didn't have knot, then I think the game was somewhat over on turn 3 when Breloom went down.
Also if Pideous's Rotom were bulky instead of scarf, he could have stalled out Swampert and Metagross, he just would have needed to answer the opposing scarf Rotom.
i don't think bulky rotom makes sense on the team, plus metagross runs lum so it would have been ok, i knew that tran didn't have hp grass, shuca berry doesn't run it, but i didn't want it to explode on swampert cause jirachi still have life, seeing the team i was pretty sure it was special, hence the first protect to scoot grass knot which swampert live at high health (hence me preserving its life), seeing the team i thought shuca jirachi was unlikely, probably lum or expert belt, but i didn't want to take risks losing after gross sweep cut short.
But you're right that after the 3 first turns i was very favored
252+ Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Fan: 102-121 (33.6 - 39.9%) -- 34% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Good point about Lum, I didn't really consider that. But in theory a defensive Rotom could still win that if it manages to land 2 wisps in a row and then rest.
You were right to switch out and let DNite tank the explosion. DNite resists the fire-blast, HP:Grass, and earth-power. And if he did explode, its still better than letting Swampert tank it, like you say. I wouldn't have been so confident that he didn't have HP:Grass though if I were you. It may be unlikely, but good players will change up sets to surprise you, and HP:Grass on Heatran is not uncommon.
I’m just a nobody player so take these with a grain of salt.
BIG] Laurel vs Pideous [CLA]
I think Pideous will lock in after the mistakes of the last game. Laurel’s no joke, and though he only really made one crucial mistake in his last game, I have faith in whatever Pideous brings to the table. Laurel might need to work on timer management too. That being said I could see this going either way.
[SHA] twash vs Malekith [RUI]
twash brought a relatively standard defensive team last week, and you could tell that it wasn’t something he’s used to. This week he might end up bringing something more in his patented ‘balls to the wall’ offensive style. However, Malekith’s play last week showed that he’s on top of his game, and as long as he keeps his cool and cooks up something solid I believe that he can weather any weird techs twash has to throw at him.
[TIG] Le Don vs Skyrio [RAI]
Le Don’s week one game had me lying on the ground in a pool of sweat just from watching. I think it was a great demonstration of his ability to maintain a levelheadedness about him and not get impatient, something that many great players find difficult. I do believe the team had a couple issues (single water resist two attacks CM Lati?), but he played well enough for them not to cause an upset. I don’t know a whole lot about Skyrio, but since these two have played in the past, I wonder if Skyrio will be able to recognise some of Le Don’s habits and use them to his advantage.
[TYR] Dridri457 vs mind gaming [CRY]
Maybe my craziest take here. I know Mind is likely one of the best players on the site, and Dridri is a newcomer to the tournament scene, but I’m a certified Dridri believer. His game last week showed that he has the potential to cause some fuckery, and that the funny sets can work to his advantage. With that being said, his building still needs a lot of work. Mind seems to be finding his feet in a notoriously beginner unfriendly metagame, and both his play and his building last week were evidence of that. I think Dridri could throw him for a loop.
[SCO] Mishimono vs Void [WOL]
Void played a great game last week, and I think some may be underestimating his abilities this SPL. Mish’s play was undoubtedly solid, besides the endgame blunder. Ultimately I think Void’s breadth of experience will lead him to a win.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-premier-league-xv-usage-statistics.3734965/
I have a prediction for usage statistics. Heatran clocked in at number one with a 70% usage rate! Heatran is good, but where is Tyranitar? All the way down at 30% usage? Even Hippowdon got 20% usage on some sand stall teams. I think we are going to see more Tyranitar this week. Sand balance isn't going anywhere and Tyranitar always was the king of DPP.
This was a 250 turn stallfest featuring a Rotom/Clef/Latias/Skarm mirror. Pideous additionally ran Hippowdon and Jirachi, which looks very standard. Laurel ran Magnezone and Scizor making the team a bit more aggressive since Scizor can SD sweep and Magnezone can pick off certain walls. In this case Pideous ran Shed Shell on his Skarmory so there was no chance to pick it off. Laurel didn't even bother casting Thunderbolt on turn 175 and instead goes for the HP:Fire to chip Hippowdon on the switch.
You'll see that Pideous sent out Skarm on turn 10 and it doesn't recover with leftovers. Laurel doesn't even bother chipping his Magnezone just to let Skarm escape for free. The Magnezone did actually matter this game. I figured Pideous's last mon had to be a steel type because there must be a reason why he wouldn't reveal it, and he was afraid of the Magnezone. Once Magnezone exploded on Clef, Pideous was able to send in Jirachi and hax down the opposing Clef to 23, and beat the rest of the team.
There were a few misplays this game. Firstly Laurel swaps Scizor into Latias on turn 2 just for it to eat a Thunder Wave and let Latias set a Reflect. Then he retreats into Clef which was the correct play in the first place. Props to Pideous for running Latias as a lead, I think he confused Laurel with that lead whereas a lead Hippowdon would have made Pideous's line up very predictable from the beginning. Pideous must have fallen asleep on turn 138 and forgotten to swap his Clef in, so he lets Laurel's Rotom KO his own. I can't blame him though, watching 100 turns of Rotom and Clef exchange Shadow Balls and Knock Offs is enough to test the endurance and resolve of even seasoned pros.
Another minor criticism I have is on turn 213 Laurel opts to not Sleep Talk, which when engaged in stall wars against Clef is probably correct, but against Skarm you may as well play for the 1/3 chance at Shadow Ball there. That is the last turn in the entire game where Rotom is going to be able to use a Sleep Talk to effect anyways. On turn 229, Pideous swaps Skarm into Clef and Magnezone explodes on it. I think this was a minor error as well since Skarmory had only 2 Roosts left and was essentially dead. Clef had more survivability remaining albeit not much. But again, its easy to criticize in hindsight, I like to joke but it really does take a certain stamina to engage in such a stallfest like this and play it well.
Finally Magnezone falls and Pideous releases the Jirachi who proceeds to hax down Clef to where its forced out and Laurel goes into Latias. Laurel uses Recover on turn 240. I think Thunderwave was the move here to try and regain some initiative against the perpetual Iron Head spam. Pideous goes for the Iron Head of course since he has a 60% chance of beating Latias and the game right there. He misses it and Laurel recovers. A Thunderwave would have allowed him to recover for free next turn and possibly give him a chance to overcome Jirachi.
This game is exhibit A as to why people don't run stall on ladder too often: because if you encounter a mirror match its going to be hell. Reminds me of a B/W game I played with an off-meta stall vs off-meta stall. Which in that case was still somewhat more engaging than Clef vs Rotom wars. Laurel summed it up with his comment on turn 37.
Pideous must have fallen asleep on turn 138 and forgotten to swap his Clef in, so he lets Laurel's Rotom KO his own. I can't blame him though, watching 100 turns of Rotom and Clef exchange Shadow Balls and Knock Offs is enough to test the endurance and resolve of even seasoned pros.
This was a 250 turn stallfest featuring a Rotom/Clef/Latias/Skarm mirror. Pideous additionally ran Hippowdon and Jirachi, which looks very standard. Laurel ran Magnezone and Scizor making the team a bit more aggressive since Scizor can SD sweep and Magnezone can pick off certain walls. In this case Pideous ran Shed Shell on his Skarmory so there was no chance to pick it off. Laurel didn't even bother casting Thunderbolt on turn 175 and instead goes for the HP:Fire to chip Hippowdon on the switch.
You'll see that Pideous sent out Skarm on turn 10 and it doesn't recover with leftovers. Laurel doesn't even bother chipping his Magnezone just to let Skarm escape for free. The Magnezone did actually matter this game. I figured Pideous's last mon had to be a steel type because there must be a reason why he wouldn't reveal it, and he was afraid of the Magnezone. Once Magnezone exploded on Clef, Pideous was able to send in Jirachi and hax down the opposing Clef to 23, and beat the rest of the team.
There were a few misplays this game. Firstly Laurel swaps Scizor into Latias on turn 2 just for it to eat a Thunder Wave and let Latias set a Reflect. Then he retreats into Clef which was the correct play in the first place. Props to Pideous for running Latias as a lead, I think he confused Laurel with that lead whereas a lead Hippowdon would have made Pideous's line up very predictable from the beginning. Pideous must have fallen asleep on turn 138 and forgotten to swap his Clef in, so he lets Laurel's Rotom KO his own. I can't blame him though, watching 100 turns of Rotom and Clef exchange Shadow Balls and Knock Offs is enough to test the endurance and resolve of even seasoned pros.
Another minor criticism I have is on turn 213 Laurel opts to not Sleep Talk, which when engaged in stall wars against Clef is probably correct, but against Skarm you may as well play for the 1/3 chance at Shadow Ball there. That is the last turn in the entire game where Rotom is going to be able to use a Sleep Talk to effect anyways. On turn 229, Pideous swaps Skarm into Clef and Magnezone explodes on it. I think this was a minor error as well since Skarmory had only 2 Roosts left and was essentially dead. Clef had more survivability remaining albeit not much. But again, its easy to criticize in hindsight, I like to joke but it really does take a certain stamina to engage in such a stallfest like this and play it well.
Finally Magnezone falls and Pideous releases the Jirachi who proceeds to hax down Clef to where its forced out and Laurel goes into Latias. Laurel uses Recover on turn 240. I think Thunderwave was the move here to try and regain some initiative against the perpetual Iron Head spam. Pideous goes for the Iron Head of course since he has a 60% chance of beating Latias and the game right there. He misses it and Laurel recovers. A Thunderwave would have allowed him to recover for free next turn and possibly give him a chance to overcome Jirachi.
This game is exhibit A as to why people don't run stall on ladder too often: because if you encounter a mirror match its going to be hell. Reminds me of a B/W game I played with an off-meta stall vs off-meta stall. Which in that case was still somewhat more engaging than Clef vs Rotom wars. Laurel summed it up with his comment on turn 37.
i found this game to be a very interesting one. don't agree that it was just a boring stallfest. both teams are very standard, known teams. the standard hippo jira stall against the skarm + sciz + mag core. on paper you'd expect pideous to have mu, as shed skarm is a huge pain for the skarm sciz mag, as ofc its whole purpose is to reverse trap mag so scizor can win, and as a bonus trap skarm and limit its spikes. it's one of the main reasons i veer away from this team, or have been trying to fit starmie > latias so it can remove for scizor.
hard to say what laurel's best opening was. lati usually tbolts, surfs, or tricks t1 vs skarm if it's specs. i think you'd benefit the most by just staying in with skarm and getting up t1 to absorb trick, potentially punish a surf, and not lose too much momentum. going hard clef on a trick is not a great outcome considering specs lati can come with an army of special threats in the back like suicune, empoleon, and jirachi.
what swung this mu a bit less unfavorably for laurel was the shadow ball wisp rt rotom. pideous lacked roar on hippowdon and dragon pulse on latias, meaning he actually didn't have an easy time putting pressure/gaining momentum vs this rotom. by sending pulse lati on a rest turn/hippowdon to phaze it away and take advantage of his hazards (force mag/friends in way earlier), he could have had more counterplay, but this specific rotom set was just awkward to navigate for him. it also showed a key drawback to the overrated encore clef: you get a lot more pp by opting for its other useful utility moves.
what he needed to do differently was send skarmory in earlier to force his layers (turn 13, he can just send his skarm back freely and get the layers sooner). additionally, once rotom revealed its set, he would have benefitted from better pp management with his clefable by using skarm against rotom and forcing layers if needed there. if he managed clef's pp better, he could have potentially saved encore for laurel's last mon scizor, had more reign over knocking off laurel's team, and would have had an easier time vs clefable mid-late game.
this game essentially became a race. what's gonna happen first? will laurel be able to trap jirachi with magnezone and go for a scizor win, or will pideous be able to wear down the magnezone quickly enough with hazards to free jirachi to make progress? with this mu it's way more likely for the latter to happen, as we saw in the game.
these errors and difficulty navigating this rotom resulted in a much longer game than was necessary. after pideous's rotom got crit, he played super well and bounced back from the position he was in. laurel did pretty well this game given the mu. both players played suboptimally at times over the course of this long game but i'd say both did a pretty good job. what i liked most about this game was that it showed nuance in the "mirror" and revealed some interesting consequences to deviating from the most popular sets. i also thought it was a good example of the fatal flaws of the popular skarm sciz mag team, which haven't quite been exposed on the big stage yet.
i generally think it's more helpful to look at the grand scheme/specific team matchup as opposed to nitpicking a couple inconsequential plays in a barebones "stallfest boring" kind of analysis. think there are a couple interesting points you made tho.
i generally think it's more helpful to look at the grand scheme/specific team matchup as opposed to nitpicking a couple inconsequential plays in a barebones "stallfest boring" kind of analysis. think there are a couple interesting points you made tho.
I didnt nitpick. I wont pretend my analysis was comprehensive or flawless, but I did watch the whole match twice. Someone could spend literally hours and write thousands of words of analysis on a match like this.
I dont intend to be negative. Ive watched every DPP match and keep checking the thread to see if more replays have been posted.
I did focus on errors rather than theory or what went well, but since the teams seen here are not my specialty, far from it, it would take me much more time to give an honest opinion about the overall MU and theoretical play. I dont mean the players any disrespect, its easy to criticize from the sidelines. Being critial and lightly sarcastic is just who I am. Ive thoroughly enjoyed every match so far.
I'm gonna try to do some predictions to give some life to that thread, those are just thoughts, don't take it to heart.
DPP OU: Skyrio vs Pideous: I think they're both using meta teams with good knowledge of the tier, i give a slight advantage to Pideous cause i can't remember him making a misplay, even taking the shadow ball crit with rotom is not really an error and he managed to win anyway.
DPP OU: Void vs mind gaming i think mind is super strong and makes little mistakes, but void has good knowledge of the tier, loved the variety of his teams (donphan is so fun in DPP ou), been impressive those early weeks, and i want to believe in the 5-0 from a fellow bottom PR ranked.
DPP OU: Malekith vs Laurel hard to choose here, both are good, i found teams from laurel a bit on the lesser end, though that's only my vision, and that's without taking the snorlax team into account^^.
DPP OU: twash vs Le Don hard to choose yet again, i found twash to be more opportunist in the way he played, good double and good teams, make me eat my words Le don i believe in you.
DPP OU: Mishimono vs Dridri457 Mishi is 0-4 right now, but don't think i'll underestimate you, i saw how good you truly are during all the season, and looking at the replays, few mistakes have been made, matches were unfortunates, i'm expecting some adversity from you.
I'm gonna try to do some predictions to give some life to that thread, those are just thoughts, don't take it to heart.
DPP OU: Skyrio vs Pideous: I think they're both using meta teams with good knowledge of the tier, i give a slight advantage to Pideous cause i can't remember him making a misplay, even taking the shadow ball crit with rotom is not really an error and he managed to win anyway.
DPP OU: Void vs mind gaming i think mind is super strong and makes little mistakes, but void has good knowledge of the tier, loved the variety of his teams (donphan is so fun in DPP ou), been impressive those early weeks, and i want to believe in the 5-0 from a fellow bottom PR ranked.
DPP OU: Malekith vs Laurel hard to choose here, both are good, i found teams from laurel a bit on the lesser end, though that's only my vision, and that's without taking the snorlax team into account^^.
DPP OU: twash vs Le Don hard to choose yet again, i found twash to be more opportunist in the way he played, good double and good teams, make me eat my words Le don i believe in you.
DPP OU: Mishimono vs Dridri457 Mishi is 0-4 right now, but don't think i'll underestimate you, i saw how good you truly are during all the season, and looking at the replays, few mistakes have been made, matches were unfortunates, i'm expecting some adversity from you.
Le Don vs Void
Dridri457 vs twash
Laurel vs Mishimono
Pideous vs Malekith
mind gaming vs Skyrio
Le Don vs Void - Void has been playing very well with no losses, but I believe that Le Don is gonna be the better player with the better matchup in a clear fashion in this match. As long Le Don takes some self-prep and plays like how he did in recent times he will stop Void's momentum once and for all.
Dridri457 vs twash - I've been rather somewhat underwhelmed by both of them. Twash's builds got me questioning despite backing up with the plays he's making. Like... what was going on last week vs Le Don??? Dridri may have teams that are "preferable" to Twash, his teams are something it made me question a lot in the last two weeks. For like running two teams with only one steel w/o any trapping got me raising an eyebrow here. And his performance vs Mishimono was not a good one. BKC's video of this match was almost how I felt about this ngl.
But let's not leave this in a sour spot, because this matchup is the most chaotic one out of any. As mentioned before, both of them bring some of the most unorthodox teams I've ever seen out of anyone here, speaking from my ladder/friendlies experience vs them. I can't fathom preparing against each other with the ways they build their teams, so I'm extremely curious how the matchup will be. Despite that, I have a feeling that Dridri may have the upper hand on teams if they bring something that disrupts Twash's flow(e.g. abusing Rachi para or using some offense that can force Twash to stay defensive such as using balance vs Sharow's teams LOL). This is why I'm betting Dridri over Twash. While Twash has better plays, Dridri can keep it up against that, while if Twash does not get a favorable MU vs Dridri I think Dridri's chances to win are significantly higher. Regardless though, this match gonna be fire!!! Gettem Dridri >:)
Laurel vs Mishimono - My gut feeling tells me that Mishimono is going to win over Laurel. I also think Mishimono has been performing much better and brought teams I like more, though Laurel's teams(especially vs Skyrio) are heat af. Gonna be barely win, but perhaps with a conclusive endgame path.
Pideous vs Malekith - I think Malekith's going to figure out ways to exploit Pideous's teams and a player. Something with the past weeks with Pideous led me to wonder if there are some noticeable holes that he could take advantage of based on the past weeks. But Pideous's just someone that you can't usually win clearly, so it'll be a treat to see this match.
mind gaming vs Skyrio - Mind Gaming got unlucky last week but ignoring the rng, the fact it was "supposedly" the right plays made me feel like he's gonna keep that momentum and eventually become positive in this SPL. This player MU is very fundies since I don't think both of them are strictly DPP players, so it'll be a fun one to see who's gonna be the better player.
Le Don vs Void - Highlight of the week. Void's teams have been by far the best of the tournament, and he backs it up with gameplay strong enough to push his building advantages against his opponents. Once I saw Void getting support that I didn't anticipate when I did my rankings, I haven't been surprised to see these results. Le Don has been solid, but that won't be enough to favor him in this mu for me.
Dridri457 vs twash - Dridri has transitioned into SPL seamlessly and is playing some pretty good games. Although Dridri is likely exploitable in the teambuilder, I don't peg twash as the type to exploit these weaknesses with his unique style. This match feels pretty hard to predict bc both pilot well, but I give a greater chance to Dridri for having a good matchup.
Laurel vs Mishimono - Mish finally bounced back last week with a commanding win, showing more hints of his form during DPP cup. Laurel has had a better tournament so far, but I think mish will build off last week and continue the momentum with another win.
Pideous vs Malekith - This matchup is really interesting to me. Pideous brought a really cool team last week and played a decent game to get his second win. Malekith's teams have been interesting and quirky as they usually are, but his gameplay has been airtight. This comes down to who is more favored between bringing more "solid" teams as opposed to a more experienced opponent who has been playing better in their games. I think Malekith has shown a bit more this tournament so far, but Pideous is on the comeup and may very well continue to level up and win here. Very close mu, but I'll go with Malekith gun to my head. Excited to watch this one.
mind gaming vs Skyrio - I think mind gaming been the best pilot in the pool, but he's using bad and outdated teams. Skyrio started really strong, and has been playing really well relative to the record, but has loaded some poor builds and doesn't seem to have a consistent stream of support depending on circumstances. This will come down to Skyrio being able to build something new and take advantage of mind being predictable, but given the past couple weeks showing I'd favor mind.
Alpha Ruiners: Malekith, BluBirD
Congregation of the Classiest: Pideous, BIHI
Dragonspiral Tyrants: Dridri457, Mister Sauce, CyberOdin
Cryonicles: mind gaming, QWILY, Dj Breloominati, Hclat
Wi-Fi Wolfpack: Void, -Tsunami-, ABR
Team Raiders: Skyrio, McMeghan
Stark Sharks: twash, TDK, Aliss
Ever Grande BIGs: Laurel, susciety, PDC, DeepBlueC
Indie Scooters: Mishimono, Hayburner
Circus Maximus Tigers: Le Don, M Dragon
) but I will try to do smthing every week when I have time !
