Ladder STABmons (the old one)

[yikes]

Sorry for the double post but...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-171607232
Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Spore
- Misty Terrain
- Nature Power
- Moonlight / Seed Flare / Giga Drain / Memento
Use as you wish.

 

[w0rd]

won in a frontier battle vs asterat http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-171941348

and won vs insanelegend (again)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-173856422

 

[DinaIsha]

Lost to Taunt Anttyaz

Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-172228665

still not changing my team

Won against New Old Competitor

Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-172235240

Won against OML Ranger

Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-172250170

 

[Adonzo]

New round of megas over the last couple weeks, the most significant of which (for STABmons) being Mega Pidgeot. Confirmed to get a SpA boost, this will be a major special Shell Smasher threat, with STAB Boomburst and either No Guard Hurricane or Oblivion Wing.

Coil Mega Beedrill might also be a threat, with Coil boosting the accuracy of Adaptability boosted Megahorns and Gunk Shots, and meshing well with his low Def / high SpD.

 

[canno]

I think Mega Beedrill's best set is going to be spamming Adaptability Gunk Shots and Megahorns. I think I remember reading somewhere it has 150 Attack or something like that, which is insane. And yeah Mega Pidgeot looks pretty good too with Smash / Boomburst / Heat Wave / Hurricane or something similar. It could even go mixed Shell Smash with ESpeed if it wanted to - not bad Pidgeot.

 

[yikes]

Guys.
>yfw Diggersby gets Knock Off, Superpower, and the Elemental Punches from ORAS tutors
>yfw when Thousand Arrows is released, Diggers will have no counters

 

[Pikachuun]

Guys.
>yfw Diggersby gets Knock Off, Superpower, and the Elemental Punches from ORAS tutors
>yfw when Thousand Arrows is released, Diggers will have no counters

Can we ban it when ORAS starts since that it effectively has no real counters thanks to based Knock Off o3o

 

[Esprite]

Ban diggers NEOW!

It won't hurt me a bit, due to ignoring its existence

 

[skies]

I do not think banning it is wise, we don't know how it will even be in the metagame. It might be broken, but we honestly cannot know without playing with it.

 

[Kit Kasai]

Well normally that would be the case, but as it stands diggers would theoretically have no counters, and arguably no checks even because of priority ;-;

 

[Esprite]

Dude, diggers is defining the metagame NOW, and you think it'll be balanced with even more tools to play with?

 

[skies]

I never said it wasn't banworthy lol, I'd even be on board with banning it, all I'm saying is that it's too early to judge now that we have new powerful megas in play that may even shape up Diggersby, take Mega Steelix for example, it might be a fantastic check to it. We know it'll be powerful, but not to the point of banworthiness yet. Do not forget other Pokemon get new toys as well u_u.

 

[ellipse]

Two things:
1st Here's a quote from the mega-gengar quickban/suspect/tiering discussion from early X and Y that truly hits the idea of quickbanning some piece of Thousand Arrows or Diggersby with the move thousand arrows

Alright, so, let's clear up the two points that a lot of people are having trouble with: why is Gengarite up for a quickban and is it worthy of a quickban based on experience from the OU and Pokebank OU ladders on Showdown?

The first point was explained by Lee beautifully, and I'll quote it again so that it isn't lost in this thread:

Can people stop advocating a suspect test on the grounds that we 'may as well' or 'just in case.' A quickban is not done solely because a Pokemon is so overwhelmingly powerful that it needs to be removed from the metagame with immediate effect.

It's done because the powers-that-be are utterly confident that a suspect test would only give the exact same result. Trust me when I say that suspect tests require an immense amount of time, effort, energy and man-hours and cause considerable disruption across the whole community.

I've actively participated in or closely followed (as a moderator) almost every suspect test that Smogon has ever organised and I can say from the reactions in this thread that the writing is most certainly on the wall; a suspect test at this stage will end in a Mega-Gengar ban. I imagine the Council, in their infinite wisdom, are similarly sure and would rather not go through the hassle of a tedious suspect test unless they absolutely have to. Don't advocate a test 'just because.'

Lee hits the nail on the head by saying that we feel Gengarite would be banned in a suspect test. We see little point in suspect testing something that will almost certainly get banned, and this right here is the core reason behind a quickban.

2nd we've already had the conversation about Diggersby and Thousand Arrows. Let's not delve into that again please.

 

[DinaIsha]

The council has been discussing about Diggersby and Thousand Arrows long since the move was released. It will definitely be broken. But with the surge of new Megas, the Meta will need something to threaten all that firepower with Priority quickkill. As already mention way back in the thread, Diggersby and Sableye are important cornerstones of the Meta in the sense that they keep the Meta from going haywire with Offense and/or Defense.

If found too powerful, I would suggest banning the move itself (In fact, the move would be far more broken on something like Landorus-T; it'd still be broken on most Ground Types) or a complex ban of Diggersby and Thousand Arrows.

Here's an alternative topic for us to discuss:

New Moves:

Origin Pulse – Water Special, 85%, 110 BP, 10 PP (Hits all Opponents)
Precipice Blades – Ground Physical, 85%, 120 BP, 10 PP (Hits all Opponents)
Dragon Ascent – Flying Physical, 100%, 120 BP, 5 PP (Secondary effect code present)
Hyperspace Fury – Dark Special, 101%, 100 BP, 5 PP (Always hits, Secondary effect code present)

Level Up Moves: http://pastebin.com/16baa7Yk

Egg Moves: http://pastebin.com/hzFmncB6

Tutor Moves: http://pastebin.com/8rbu6Fmp

 

[Adonzo]

Origin Pulse / Precipice Blades = outclassed by Steam Eruption / Thousand Arrows as predicted, though seen as how those are unreleased at the moment, they are very slight upgrades upgrades over Hydro Pump / Earthquake

Dragon Ascent is a Flying-typed Close Combat according to Bulbapedia, a viable alternative to Brave Bird for a different kind of recoil

Hyperspace Fury becomes hands down the best Special Dark move.

And please for the love of god don't ban moves.

 

[EJ190]

Hyperspace Fury becomes hands down the best Special Dark move.

I think hyperspace fury is coded to work only for hoopa.
Fun fact: mega pidgeot gets no guard SING. Shame it can't hold plates

 

[Adonzo]

Also No Guard Guillotine/Horn Drill lolololol

But seriously No Guard Sing is hugely dangerous. Perfectly accurate, bypasses Subs, has no immunities outside the still rare Soundproof, and gives Pidgeot guaranteed setup.

 

[DinaIsha]

Pidgeot (M) @ Mega Stone
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sing
- Hurricane
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave

Save Sing for Chansey and start denting the opponent's team inch by inch. A Shell Smash set would be viable too, I guess. But with Diggersby and Mega Lopunny around, you'll never be able to pull that off.

Beedrill (M) @ Mega Stone
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Megahorn
- Gunk Shot
- Roost

While it's hopelessly walled by Steel Types, take them out of the equation and Mega Beedrill becomes a violent threat that can break down walls quicker than anything else can. It's Adaptability-boosted 120 Base STABs are nukes right off the bat. Coil is to fix the moves' accuracy and also providing enough bulk to Roost off and live longer. Watch out for Sableye though.

Lopunny (M) @ Mega Stone
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Extreme Speed
- Hi Jump Kick
- Milk Drink/Recover

Well hello there, Sableye! The additional bulk is to survive Diggersby's Fake Out, while the Speed creep is also fixed by Shell Smash. Everyone is happy!

 

[Mr155551]

Pidgeot (M) @ Mega Stone
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sing
- Hurricane
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave

Save Sing for Chansey and start denting the opponent's team inch by inch. A Shell Smash set would be viable too, I guess. But with Diggersby and Mega Lopunny around, you'll never be able to pull that off.

Beedrill (M) @ Mega Stone
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Megahorn
- Gunk Shot
- Roost

While it's hopelessly walled by Steel Types, take them out of the equation and Mega Beedrill becomes a violent threat that can break down walls quicker than anything else can. It's Adaptability-boosted 120 Base STABs are nukes right off the bat. Coil is to fix the moves' accuracy and also providing enough bulk to Roost off and live longer. Watch out for Sableye though.

Lopunny (M) @ Mega Stone
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Extreme Speed
- Hi Jump Kick
- Milk Drink/Recover

Well hello there, Sableye! The additional bulk is to survive Diggersby's Fake Out, while the Speed creep is also fixed by Shell Smash. Everyone is happy!

tbh i would replace HJK with CC i've never been fond of risky moves like HJK

 

[skies]

DinaIsha With Beedrill's horrible bulk, I honestly wouldn't even try Roost u_u. I'd go for Drill Run, getting around Steel-types is really cute. Except Skarmory, which walls it regardless. I'd also just run 252 / 252 on Beedrill u_u.

 

[Pikachuun]

tbh i would replace HJK with CC i've never been fond of risky moves like HJK

Because Lopunny is Normal type, it cannot get CC.

 

[EV]

I don't want to ban anything until the ORAS additions are implemented.

Knock Off Diggersby looks deadly, giving it a surefire way to beat Gengar, Aegislash, and Gourgeist if it can predict correctly, though Koff is one of those moves that requires little to no prediction. That being said, if Gengar gets in safely, it can still Disable it and Aeigslash can King's Shield it. Skarmory will also appreciate it to an extent because Diggersby will probably drop the already rare Wild Charge in favor of Koff, which takes Rocky Helmet damage and makes contact with King's Shield. It's Thousand Arrows that scares me. And yes, I am open to move restrictions, just like we did with Sketch, in which case only Pokemon that learn it naturally can use it.

Now that Gyarados gets solid Dark STAB for its mega forme, I can see Mold Breaker MegaDos getting more popular. The set that w0rd (iirc) posted has something like Sub/DD/Roost/Crabhammer, which bypasses Water Absorb and Unaware, but maybe it will find room for Crunch, too.

Rof @ No Guard Sing Pidgeot. It's those little inventions that reminds me why I created STABmons in the first place. I guess the bird will find a place on the viability rankings soon enough, and we might see Soundproof and Magic Bounce pop up more. Electrode for D rank anyone?

Mega Lopunny looks cool, though Skarmory will give it problems. Coil on Mega Beedrill is enticing, but its STABs aren't doing it many favors with so many Steel types around, plus the threat of Sableye as we know keeps many many boosters off the table. I think a hit-and-run set with U-turn, Megahorn, and Gunk Shot will be more useful, with Drill Run and Koff filling in the gaps as needed.

 

[canno]

Hey look, M-Gallade's ability is actually useful here!


Gallade (M) @ Abomasite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat / High Jump Kick / Sacred Sword / Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut / Ice Punch
- Knock Off / Ice Punch / Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance / Moonlight

Fast, strong, and reasonably bulky - Mega Gallade is a force to be reckoned with. Its abiity Inner Focus isn't completely useless here - it's a bit harder to revenge kill due to the fact that Fake Out won't flinch it, which is good. First slot is Fighting STAB - there's a lot of options, and it really comes down to preference. Second slot is Psychic STAB, which helps to smack around the more specially defensive Fairies. Third move is Knock Off because its the new best move in the game. Last slot comes down to wanting Gallade to be an SD sweeper or a 3 moves + recovery. It gets Moonlight from Ralts being a Fairy. Other options include Ice Punch to smack things around, and Lead Blade specifically for Quagsire. You could also run a Bulk Up Set

Gallade (M) @ Abomasite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Moonlight / Knock Off / Leaf Blade
- Drain Punch / Sacred Sword
- Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut / Ice Punch / Leaf Blade / Substitute / Crafty Shield

Bulk Up is neat due to Gallade decent bulk. Moonlight is recovery, although you can run Knock Off or Lead Blade if you think that Drain Punch is enough recovery. Sacred Sword is a dirty trick you can use to beat other Bulk Up pokemon. Last slot can be whatever you want it to be, as Gallade has a lot of options.

Gallade in general needs to be paired up with something like Magenzone because Skarmory beats it unless you go +6 somehow. Another cool mega is M-Camerupt

Camerupt @ Absolite
Ability: Solid Rock / Anger Point
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Blue Flare
- Earth Power
- Rock Slide / Thousand Arrows
- V-Create / Toxic / Roar / Yawn / Stealth Rocks / Spikes / Thousand Arrows / Thousand Waves

Camerupt has one really cool feature to it - Sheer Force Blue Flare, something that it only shares with Darm. To put it in perspective - Sheer Force Blue Flare outdamages Eruption. That's pretty powerful. Earth Power is secondary STAB for shit like Heatran. Third moveslot is Rock Slide for shit like Talonflame or Charizard. Thousand Arrows essentially achieves the same thing, but you get STAB on it or something. Rock Slide does get Sheer Force boosted which is cool. You could run Ancient Power as well, although the low PP and not being that much stronger than Rock Side against the intended targets makes it unfavorable. Last slot is filler - V-Create is to get atleast some damage on Chansey. Flare Blitz could work too thanks to Sheer Force but the recoil is unfavorable and the drops aren't a big deal since you'll be spamming Blue Flares for days. Really though, last slot is filler - you can put whatever you want here. Also don't use Rock Polish Camerupt - no priority and only 20 base speed makes it pretty meh. You're much better of just spamming Blue Flare.

 

[DinaIsha]

Won against El-Soldier

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-174741635

 

[Pikachuun]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-174808912
Beat insanelegend in an incredibly close GG for frontier.

Summary of battle

Fitting Music