I think you mean jump kick as sawsbuck only gets jump kickSawsbuck was a huge threat in Gen V. So it'd definitely be a good alternative. It has STAB recovery and wonderful coverage in Hi Jump Kick. But yes, too easy to wall.
I think you mean jump kick as sawsbuck only gets jump kickSawsbuck was a huge threat in Gen V. So it'd definitely be a good alternative. It has STAB recovery and wonderful coverage in Hi Jump Kick. But yes, too easy to wall.
DinaIsha
xJownage
I'm not going to argue your individual points because, frankly, I'm tired of both of you talking as if you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the scenarios you are predicting will happen. Nobody else has said "this will happen". (About whatever they are predicting) Other people have said "this might happen" very consistently. Saying it will happen doesn't make your argument more convincing, stop doing it. I don't care if you are that convinced it will happen -I'm absolutely convinced you're both 100% wrong, but I'm not in here asserting "this will for sure happen" and "this other thing is 100% guaranteed" and trying to convince people to make a decision based on my conviction.
Your conviction is irrelevant to the topic.
where ever did conviction come in? I never said anything about this is what I believe. I said multiple times that this is a very realistic possibility that can't be ignored, whether we like it or not. God I had to say it an infinite number of times in the OM chat so people wouldn't point fingers at me, but apparently you missed the memo.This is all theory and has nothing to do with what will actually happen, but is a very possible scenario and is complete logic (that is undeniable at this point). So don't go discounting these people saying setup sweepers and stall destroy the meta, because its easily possible.
The point isn't that diggersby beats stall, the point is that not being able to slap it on offensive teams makes offensive building much more restrictive, and as a result, less diverse (besides those running a suicide lead and 5 setup sweepers or something). Less offensive diversity = easier stalling. I don't see how this is hard to understand.Yeah no, offense is getting a LOT better with diggers gone, diggers pretty much eats offense (mainly ho tho). Fakespeed is used to deter setup not to beat stall. Like pagoose said stall is the play style that beats diggersby. Stall will probably see a bit less usage considering that offense is getting a lot better but that by no means that stall is worse, like at all. Stall might get a tad better by not having to have a fake speed stop (although they probably still need one), but not anything really notable. Pretty much everything that pagoose said is what my opinion is, just wanted to clear this up since it has been constantly said in the OMs room and is pretty uninformed.
Stabmons is a very centralized meta that is true. But does Diggersby somehow promote diversity? Absolutely not. And having to actually wrack your brains and think during teambuilding is actually a good thing, unlike what xJownage clearly implies here. Being able to slap on a Pokemon onto any team and have it preform exceptionally well is a very bad thing for the meta. 2 Diggersby checks are almost a most on every team or else it will murder you. And i'm expected to believe this is somehow healthy for the metagame?The point isn't that diggersby beats stall, the point is that not being able to slap it on offensive teams makes offensive building much more restrictive, and as a result, less diverse (besides those running a suicide lead and 5 setup sweepers or something). Less offensive diversity = easier stalling. I don't see how this is hard to understand.
By not being able to slap it on offensive teams and call it a blanket check for 80% of setup sweepers overall, offensive teams become less diverse because they have to resort to less reliable methods of checking such threats. Again, I don't think this is so hard to understand. This isn't factual, but is a very real possibility. I will agree to disagree because I am sick of hashing out the same thing.But does Diggersby somehow promote diversity?
I know you're just throwing shit out in frustration but both braviary and ursaring fakespeed RK those.By not being able to slap it on offensive teams and call it a blanket check for 80% of setup sweepers overall, offensive teams become less diverse because they have to resort to less reliable methods of checking such threats. Again, I don't think this is so hard to understand. This isn't factual, but is a very real possibility. I will agree to disagree because I am sick of hashing out the same thing.
Fuck it. Ban It. I can run my BD cincinno and SS pyroar (even though it sucks) in peace.
aka instead of using Diggers, which basically outclasses other fakespeeders, people have to look for alternatives and experiment with new things.By not being able to slap it on offensive teams and call it a blanket check for 80% of setup sweepers overall, offensive teams become less diverse because they have to resort to less reliable methods of checking such threats.
random ass example off the top of my head because i don't want to talk about this anymore. Braviary is much less powerful and Ursaring is made of wet tissue paper and is inherently hard to keep alive.I know you're just throwing shit out in frustration but both braviary and ursaring fakespeed RK those.
restriction means they don't have extra teamslots because said diverse mons have to fill specific roles, otherwise the team has trouble handling specific threats. If we can't use diggersby, maybe we have to use ursaring, lant, and something else, for example, or something that fills those roles. Not stating we have to use those mons, but its an example of how this one mon makes it easier to counter everything and not having it COULD require more teamslots.aka instead of using Diggers, which basically outclasses other fakespeeders, people have to look for alternatives and experiment with new things.
...that is literally promoting diversity.
You mean like diggersby requiring opponents to devote multiple teamslots to deal with it?random ass example off the top of my head because i don't want to talk about this anymore. Braviary is much less powerful and Ursaring is made of wet tissue paper and is inherently hard to keep alive.
restriction means they don't have extra teamslots because said diverse mons have to fill specific roles, otherwise the team has trouble handling specific threats. If we can't use diggersby, maybe we have to use ursaring, lant, and something else, for example, or something that fills those roles. Not stating we have to use those mons, but its an example of how this one mon makes it easier to counter everything and not having it COULD require more teamslots.
but it doesn't, so...You mean like diggersby requiring opponents to devote multiple teamslots to deal with it?
As The Reptile mentioned, Azumarill can FakeSpeed. Talonflame can FakeBird (lel). I understand that Flareon nukes with V-Create, but Toxic damage eventually catches up. If a FakeSpeeder needs anything, it's longevity.carrying on from Eevee General's wall of calcs and a discussion in the viability ranking thread, will posit Flareon as a viable alternative FakeSpeeder and the only non-normal typed one, owing to its unmatched wall breaking power
I'm sure you have to wait at least 24 hours before challenging the Frontier, according to the old rule.So me and lcass had an adventure in stabmons NU frontier today
First I beat him but nobody saved replay
Then I rematched him and came painfully close to winning (in yet another haxy battle) but lost by about 6% (basculin killed me by about that much)
Then I rematched him again, 5 hit pin missled his lead, and never looked back on my way to a quick win: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-219064617
GGs. Stabmons NU is fun af too.
Protip: Shadow Force is a move that is better than Phantom Force in every way besides PPLost to DarkeKnight. I played really badly and he played well, gg.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-219071220
I can add Flareon, Azumarill, Talonflame, and other 1-2 revengers once I finish the current list. However, I fear that Flareon is just not up to snuff, since FakeSpeeders often switch in and out a lot, so the Guts and SR damage is gonna drastically reduce any utility it has in the long run. This is also true of Talonflame due to that horribly SR weakness, but it does find time to recover if needed.carrying on from Eevee General's wall of calcs and a discussion in the viability ranking thread, will posit Flareon as a viable alternative FakeSpeeder andthe onlyone of few non-normal typed ones, owing to its unmatched wall breaking power
edit: forgot about azu and tflame, missed any mention amid the diggersby arguments
insanelegend was going to assemble a guide with the "best" attacks for each type with variations depending on necessity, e.g. Psystrike is always better than Psyshock, but Stored Power can be used for Psychic-type Shell Smashers to deal huge amounts of damage. You still working on that, bud?Protip: Shadow Force is a move that is better than Phantom Force in every way besides PP
@ 9:34 tuesday.http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-218798405 beat jownage via a very haxy game. probably would've lost had it not been for the crutial Bolt strike miss.
edit: double posted because diff topic(and didnt notice my last post ;~:)
edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-219063525 beat 0jownage again lmao
1:34 am thursday.So me and lcass had an adventure in stabmons NU frontier today
First I beat him but nobody saved replay
Then I rematched him and came painfully close to winning (in yet another haxy battle) but lost by about 6% (basculin killed me by about that much)
Then I rematched him again, 5 hit pin missled his lead, and never looked back on my way to a quick win: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-219064617
GGs. Stabmons NU is fun af too.
I think (s)he meant that it's one frontier battle every 24 hours. As in only the first battle would be counted.@ 9:34 tuesday.
1:34 am thursday.
Definitely more than a day, so yeah. Even though it didn't seem like it. TBH I want to play this tier all day.
Oh my god, that's the second time I've used Phantom Force instead of Shadow Force, GDI. Thanks.Protip: Shadow Force is a move that is better than Phantom Force in every way besides PP
the battles were more than 24 hours apart, so I don't understand what you are saying. I won well after 24 hours had passed.I think (s)he meant that it's one frontier battle every 24 hours. As in only the first battle would be counted.
I'm talking about the three battles on Thursday, not the one on Tuesday.the battles were more than 24 hours apart, so I don't understand what you are saying. I won well after 24 hours had passed.