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'Stalling is no fun...' 2.0

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Slim Slendy, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    PRESENTING
    ‘Stalling is no fun…! 2.0’
    Ok, so, I know a posted my team not long ago, but I feel as if there is more to be had in terms of suggestions and tweaking. As opposed to resurrecting the old fossil that is my previous thread, I decided to post a more clear, in depth view of my current roster. Feel free to nitpick, alter, suggest, and so on. The team has done well thus far, getting me to a rating of 1635, which I consider to be respectable. Anyway, rate, rape, rebuild, whatever you wish, so longer as it’s in a constructive manner. All help is appreciated, and I thank every single one of you who decides to throw in their two cents. If requested, I will also add in a section for all opposing threats as I have come across them, and will keep this thread updated with such info. If there’s anything I’ve missed, PM me, I don’t want those posts on the thread itself (regarding format, and the like.)
    That being said, PLEASE RATE 1/100.

    At a Glance

    [pimg]302[/pimg] [pimg]73[/pimg] [pimg]113[/pimg]

    [pimg]628[/pimg] [pimg]227[/pimg] [pimg]477[/pimg]

    In Depth Look

    [​IMG]
    Tom @ Leftovers
    Prankster
    Calm
    252 HP / 120 Def / 132 SpD / 4 Spe
    Will-O-Wisp, Foul Play
    Taunt, Recovery
    Quite possibly my favorite Pokémon, Sableye. Ok, this guy, oddly enough, quite commonly finds himself being a lead for me. Most people don’t expect the spinblocker to be put in the front line, nor do they account for the fact that 75% of the time, one of their pokes will become hopelessly crippled with a will-o-wisp (people who think opening with a SS Cloyster is a good idea usually wind up rage quitting after the first or second turn.) Recover is here for the recovery (WHOA, REALLY?!) Taunt is here primarily for locking down of EH setters. The favoring of SpD over Def is rather self-explanatory. Normal attacks, along with Fighting fail to do anything to Sableye, so it’s a lot less common that Def will be utilized. It’s also worth noting, that if I suspect my opponent switching out of Ferro, Skarm, or Forr, I'll usually hit ‘em with a burn. Unfortunately for our optic friend, damage is not easily soaked, making entry hazards much less easily soaked. Recovery alleviates this to an extent, but it’s very situational, and runs the risk of only buying one turn before being forced to switch out to a check. Unfortunately, for Sableye, his defenses are rather lackluster. Will-O-Wisp will alleviate the worries to an extent, but relying on luck is usually a bad idea. Foul Play is there for Reuniclus, who fails to do much of anything against Tom.


    [​IMG]
    Hentai @ Black Sludge
    Liquid Ooze
    Bold
    252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
    Toxic Spikes, Scald
    Rapid Spin, Rest

    Although probably my favorite Pokémon, I find this guy getting very little action. His primary use is RSing away hazards, and dealing with Gengar. He’s nice to have, but I find myself almost wishing I had something else here to rack up more residual damage – although I’m afraid it will hurt the synergy of my team. I have considered Hippowdon, but dismissed him, due to issues with Dusclops / Chansey, and losing EH removal. Anywho, Liquid Ooze is chosen over Rain Dish, primarily due to the fact that counting on someone else to have a weather inducer is likely to result in Tenta not having an ability at all (not to mention rain teams seem to be going down in usage, as of recent.) Another option I’ve considered is possible replacing this hentai actor wannnabe with Donphan, but once again, it’ll probably hurt the synergy of my team, due to the fact I already have a poke that can check electric users (Gliscor.) If the switch IS made into Donphan, it makes Hippoqdon more viable, but, that means I need to choose between Dusclops, or Chansey…a choice I’m not fond of making, and one that will probably hurt my team regardless. Until I figure out what I want to do with this stupid squid, I suppose I’m stuck with him. The EV spread of this guy is a little gimmicky – I chose to add 4 speed EVs to outspeed opposing tentacruels, and maintain the edge of Neutral Metagross, Adamant Breloom, and neutral Politoed. Black Sludge is there for the trick users, and with the prevelence of protect throughout my team, scouting for a trick is child’s play. I’ve considered dropping toxic spikes and replacing it with Magic Coat – a nasty surprise to status abusers and cocky EH users. Couple this with the infrequency in which TS will actually work, and the lack of opportunities to set up more than one layer, this isn’t a bad alternative.



    [​IMG]
    Ovulating @ Eviolite
    Natural Cure
    Calm
    4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
    Softboiled, Toxic
    Heal Bell, Seismic Toss

    Ahh, one of the most annoying sets to ever be devised for the blob sisters, on my favorite Pokémon, no less.. Toxic is here to hit non-statused switch-ins. Softboiled for the recovery, due to the lack of Leftovers, something that’s only slightly missed. Heal Bell to aid in removal of those pesky status moves that plague Dusclops, Skarmory, and of course, Ferrothorn. Seismic toss is here to take care of non-ghost switch ins, and, to be honest, it's generally easy to tell when someone is going to be switching into a Scizor, with the hope of coming in on a Toxic. One of the few counters to this set is a taunt user, which is easily predicted, and dealt with, using the proper check (and in some cases, the taunt is just fine, and a switch is not needed at all.) Straight up attacking moves do next to nothing, thanks to Softboiled and Eviolite, and little investment in the HP stat. With this combination, it's not uncommon Chansey may actually be able to tank a few hits before being forced to switch ( if that's even a requirement in the first place. Take, for example, CB Scizor's pursuit.)


    [​IMG]
    Moar Hentai @ Leftovers
    Iron Barbs
    Relaxed
    252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
    Stealth Rock, Leech Seed
    Protect, Power Whip

    It’s about 2am as I write this, and I’m beginning to wonder if half of these pokes even require a decent explanation…regardless, might as well, seeing as it’s my favorite Pokémon of all time. Standard EV spread is standard. Standard nature is standard. Standard leftovers are standard. When I found out that Leech Seed and Stealth Rock were not legal together, I almost peed myself in excitement (not really…) but I did change Spikes over as quickly as I could. Power Whip for those obnoxious taunt users, and useful STAB. Leech Seed and Protect are always awesome together, although they occassionally suffer from poor synergy w/ Stealth Rocks (due to choosing one or the other.) I have considered running a Rocky Helmet shpeel with this set, as it is possible to predict well enough to make Leech Seed make up for the lack of recovery. On top of this, nothing would please me more than seeing a Life Orb Scizor die as a result of a poorly timed Bullet Punch. In addition, adding a rocky helmet will provide a decent buffer against Rsers, due to Dusclop’s tendency to faint a little bit early. With Rocky helmet and Iron Barbs, the Poke is going to take a whopping 29% of its health afterwards, and RS doesn’t spin away hazards, if the user dies after the attack has been executed. Couple this with Chansey’s odd habit of drawing in physical based attacks, and this almost seems like the more logical choice. Need a second opinion here. Beyond that, this set is primarily to cover the few weaknesses I have spread throughout my team. Electric attacks are pretty easily grounded, making this guy a quality check to most variants of LO Jolteon, and the like. The only moves this guy truly fears are special fire moves, and the occasional Super Power from Scizor. Both of these are easily checked by our other tentacle ridden friend, Tentacruel.


    [​IMG]
    SkarmPiss @ Leftovers
    Sturdy
    Impish
    252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe
    Spikes, Roost
    Whirlwind, Brave Bird

    If you were able to understand the switch in 4 Def EVs in 4 Spe EVs on my favorite Pokémon, Skarmory, good job! You’ve been reading my RMT thoroughly. Primarily there to check other WW Skarmorys, and frustrate my opponent, who’s hoping to win a speed tie and bring in a more favorable opponent. Brave Bird > Taunt, for several reasons. I’m never worried about someone setting up on Skarm, due to Chansey’s Snatch ability. If Chansey is dead, then I have WW to deal with it. On top of that, I have Tenta for spinning away those pesky entry hazards. Bravebird hits Virizion, Breloom, and other fighting types for super effective damage, covering up one of the last remaining type disadvantages I have throughout my team. Thanks to Skarmorys’ OP defense stat, spikes are easily set up. Sturdy is nice as a last second ‘OH SHIT’ saver, just in case. I have considered exchanging Leftovers for the notorious Red Card, but I personally think the tradeoff it too large – not to mention not many come in to set up on Skarmory, asides from MB Espeon / Xatu, something I rarely find myself coming across. Spikes > Stealth Rock, thanks to Outrage locked dragon types + Roost. Even If I choose to go Rocky Helmet on Ferrothorn, this should remain intact.

    [​IMG]
    Knows Your Spot Too @ Poison Orb
    Poison Heal
    Impish
    244 HP / 184 Def / 76 Spe
    Substitute, Protect
    Earthquake, Ice Fang

    Last but not least, my favorite Pokémon, Gliscor. This guy closes up the last of the weaknesses I’ve found throughout my team (although, it is worth noting, he was added simply due to the fact that I had a crippling weakness to Terrakion not long ago. I’ve found said weakness to have diminished in the past couple changes I have made.) 244 HP to get the most out of Poison Heal, same deal, as always, with the additional speed EVs. Ice Fang is there to deal with those pesky Dragon types, and opposing Gliscor / Landorus…es? Landori? Anyway, this guy can comfortable check many switch ins – including Reuniclus, something I despise if Chansey has somehow bitten the dust. Lots of PP stalling on this guy, and with the aid of Toxic Spikes, most don’t last long. No taunt, once again, thanks to Chansey, Skarmory, and being able to RS away entry hazards. Elaborating on what I mentioned earlier, regarding, being added to respond to certain checks, it is very possible this guy may no longer be needed on this team, and may only be filler. If so, I would be more than open to adding a Hippowdon, or some other form of wall here to make better use of this space. Unfortunately, as with the other time I posted a RMT, Pokemon Showdown! Is current down, and I have no way of testing other ‘mons out at this time. I’m going to decline going to Pokemon Online, due to that supposed DDoS attack they have launched on Pokemon Showdown! and will, instead, elect to ask my fellow Smogonites for their coveted advise :).


    Thank you all, and gimme twenty dollars,
    ~ Slim Slendy
  2. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    THREAT LIST IS NOW COMPLETED, FEEL FREE TO LOOK THROUGH IT.
    Show Hide

    Pink= OH SHIT, instant loss
    Red= OH SHIT, this'll be interesting.
    Orange= OH SHIT, might KO a single poke.
    Green = OH SHIT, it might give me some small troubles, if the team is under heavy loses.

    Alakazam
    Substitute + Three Attack – Moderate issues with this one. Ferrothorn, maybe, using protect to remove access damage.
    Offensive Calm Mind - Force out with Chansey snatching away all CM boosts. Ferrothorn, in a way, may force it out w/ the threat of a power whip, and not being able to OHKO back.

    Azelf
    Physical Choice – If not on a user w/ Protect, I may be locked into something undesirable. Otherwise, Tenta isn’t bad here.

    Cloyster
    Shell Smash - Has the capability of doing decent damage, assuming Skarmory is dead, or my Will-O-Wisp misses once or more on Dusclops.

    Conkeldurr
    Substitute + Focus Punch - Will probably lose a poke, but will then be swept out by Skarm. Depending on the availability of checks, and when they switch, this poke can range from devastating, to a simple use of Brave Bird.


    Darmanitan
    Choice Scarf - Hopefully use protect, switch into appropriate counter. If my poke does not pack protect, it's a guessing game, which may result in an untimely death.
    Physical Attacker - This set will cause damned near devestation, if the proper EHs aren't out. Very little I can do, asides from death fodder someone, and pray the burn hits...

    Dragonite
    Offensive Dragon Dance - Much more dangerous if packing a Lum Berry, otherwise, switch in on a DD, then proceed to burn.

    Espeon
    Dual Screens - Luckily, the only thing I really have to fear here, is the damage reduction, and that's slight. Otherwise, Chansey can wait it out until the switch. Might also be able to snatch the screens, too.
    Baton Pass - Only slightly more dangerous than the above mentioned. Snatch the boosts, WW on the switch. Not too bad.
    Calm mind - Uhm....this one is an issue. Hopefully get a scald burn / wait out until it burns itself out. Might have TS support out by that time, too, so not all is lost.

    Sun Calm Mind - SHIT. SHITSHIT. SHITSHITSHIT. Two layers of TS or bust.

    Gengar
    Any Variant - Switch into Tentacruel. Reststall, or get the burn with Scald. Not too bad, but not something I like to see on the opponent's team.

    Infernape
    Mixed Attacker - Decently walled by Gliscor. SubProt stall, if possible, otherwise, wear it out using well timed switched. EH hazards are VERY nice in countering this badape.
    Swords Dance - Same as above, just time it all well.


    Magikarp
    One Speed, One Gear, One Moveset - I'm fucked. I'm sorry, but there's not a damned thing I can do. HELP, PLEASE.

    Milotic
    RestTalk - WW out on a rest, set up when she switches back, WW out awake, Toxic, Taunt. Otherwise, just hope for some crits. Luckily, she doesn't pack much firepower.

    Salamence
    MixMence - Burn, or lock into outrage, then switch into Skarmory.

    Volcarona
    Substitute - Hopefully, EHs will be out, otherwise, someone might need to sack in order to break several subs.

  3. Delko

    Delko "ghost mod"
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Hi

    Non-Rain Stall is pretty underrated and this looks like a solid team, good job. I do have some suggestions though.

    First off all, you struggle with things most stall teams struggle with. Stallbreakers such as CM Reuniclus, Mew etc are hard to handle for you. I also notice that VoltTurn teams can give you some trouble as well. You have no way to deal with opposing Stall teams and Baton Pass team with Espeon either.

    To help you with opposing Stall teams as well as Mew/ Reuniclus (or the rare Sigilyph) and Baton Pass, you could try out Sableye instead of Dusclops as your spin-blocker. It's not nearly as bulky but it comes with Prankster and moves to abuse it such as Taunt and Will-O-Wisp. Reuniclus can't touch it and Taunt + Foul Play deals with Mew and Espeon. A priority burn inducing move can help against stuff SD Lucario with Ice Punch (you don't run enough speed on Gliscor), Rock Gem Terrakion and MagDrag teams. Despite being less bulky, Sableye still handles most spinners without too much trouble.

    A possible sollution to help you with your slight weakness against VoltTurn teams is using Latias over Gliscor. It will give you similar resistances, but with Hidden Power [Fire] in it's moveset it can "break" commonly used VoltTurn cores. To add to this, Rocky Helmet on Skarmory can also be useful, as it helps with the occasional Choice Scarf Landorus. You can play around with Latias moveset if you'd like. Roar lets you abuse your hazards even more, Reflect can make sure you aren't Pursuit fodder for Tyranitar and Calm Mind can even give you an offensive option. As an added bonus of using Latias you don't have an ability that's in conflict with Heal Bell. If you don't like Latias, then you can also try Celebi, who works in a similar fashion. Celebi has Perish Song which can be useful for your team, especially against last poke stat-uppers. But as a downside, it'll make you weaker against Sun teams. To fix this weakness against Sun team even better, I'd really urge you to use Seismic Toss on Chansey. This allows her to beat Heatran and Venusaur, who you cannot Toxic Stall. Snatch is a nice move an all, but its competitive use is really limited. Why would you want to copy stat boosts from your opponent instead of taking them out anyway, all they have to do is fish for a crit. Alternatively, if you go with the Celebi suggestion, you can use it over Heal Bell and give Heal Bell to Celebi instead.

    As a last nitpick you could try Rest over Protect on Tentacruel. I find Protect without Rain to be pretty pointless and the lack of a decent recovery move doesn't really help for Tentacruel's longevity. Rest lets it fully recover and cure status as well. Chansey has Heal Bell to cure the sleep, so you don't have to worry about that.

    Hope these suggestions helped and good luck with the team.
  4. Gengan

    Gengan

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    542
    A solid looking team, but there is one concern I've noticed.

    You focus most of your EVs on your attack/defense stats, but pay little attention to speed. I'm assuming your team has adequate speed, though, but it's something to take into account, as there are extremely fast Pokemon out that have good chances of defeating some of your team.

    Other than that, good job! Seems pretty tough.
  5. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    1. CM Reuniclus is a non-issue, to be honest. Gliscor deals with it quite nicely, although your suggested Latias I think is, to be honest, surperior. Although that does leave my team the disposition to be wrecked by a X-Scissor Scarfed Terrakion, I think. Damned psychic typing....
    2. I've found a startlingly small amount of them throughout the tier, and I think Stealth Rock deals with em pretty nicely. To be honest, I'd have to go up against one to be totally sure. Seems to me as if Chansey would be a good switch, and then switch out to the appropriate counter, as they see my switch before I see theirs.
    3. Espeon. I hate Espeon with every fiber of my being. Toxic Spikes puts a damper on a large amount of BP teams, and Chansey with Snatch is nasty, too. Snatch takes recover, as well.
    4. I like it. I like it a lot. I'll give him a spin, for sure :).
    5. See #1, although I do think I'll also give it a try. Unfortunately, I think Latias is a great deal LESS bulky, which is sad =(. Plus my ability to wall Amoongus is gone.
    6. Interesting, I'd only really considered it on Ferrothorn, as there's much more bang for your buck there. I'll consider it - especially seeing as Skarmory does not have protect, making leftovers of limited use.
    7. Although it is true I no longer need to worry about Gliscor losing his Poison, I find losing him as a status soaker in general is pretty heavy price to pay.
    8. I think I prefer Tinkerbell over Latias. I can utilize Heal Bell here, and replace Heal Bell on Chansey with Seismic Toss. I think it'd wrap up some of my weaknesses pretty well, but there would be a noticeable loss in bulk overall. If snatch does prove to be that much of a lose, I can drop it and replace it with Wish, to help lower pokes out.
    9. AWESOME suggestion! Can't believe I didn't think of it. It's done, and I love it!

    Speed is never needed on a stall team, not to mention I don't see where I focused hardly any EVs on attack, asides from Gliscor. I know there are extremely fast pokes out there, but protect is there for a reason. The only one that I've found to give me issues is the rare SubKazam.
  6. The Great Gastly

    The Great Gastly

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    163
    My stall team is pretty similar to yours... more on topic, his rate is fantastic and basically sums up anything I would think to suggest bar the switch to Latias/Celebi (I just didn't think of it).

    I do want to point out though that he says Taunt + Foul Play handles Mew and Espeon, but Magic Bounce on Espeon bounces the taunt back -- regardless Espeon will kinda struggle to break through Sableye anyways. lol stupid Magic Bounce.

    Cool team. ^_^
  7. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Do you have one posted? I'd like to compare, if possible :).
    And that went right past me, although I'd think it'd have more issues if it's on a sun team and comes with Sunny Day. I'm thinking Sun Teams with Espeon and Venusaur will be the ones giving me the most problems..
  8. The Great Gastly

    The Great Gastly

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
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    163
    Nope, sorry -- I only have my DragMag team posted!

    But I use Tentacruel, Skarm, Chansey, Sableye, Amoonguss, and Politoed as of right now. It's not weatherless stall like yours, but half the team members are identical so that's why I said they were similar. :3

    I use Stealth Rock and Seismic Toss on Chansey instead of Snatch and Heal Bell, but I've been considering replacing Amoonguss in favor of Ferrothorn so I can use Heal Bell / Wish and still have all 3 hazards. You may want to try Amoonguss over Ferro if your team has a hard time with Keldeo and/or Breloom, it handles both excellently!
  9. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
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    51
    I've considered it, but losing SR would be a huge hit to my team :(. As for Breloom is walled by Gliscor by Sub / Protect Stall. Keldeo is walled (asides from the mixed version) by Chansey, who will then proceed to use toxic.

    THREAT LIST IS NOW COMPLETED, PLEASE TAKE A LOOK!
  10. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    648
    You are not considering subCM Jirachi as a threat. If taut Sableye is gone it sweeps you.
    It is the nightmare of stall teams. He trolls you confusing with +6 water pulse.
  11. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
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    Keep in mind I also have WW Skarmory, and Chansey w/ Seismic Toss (Just removed Snatch) Although beyond that, I suppose I can foresee it being an issue.
  12. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

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    May 25, 2012
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    648
    Yup, but skarmory gets 2HKO'ed by thunder or another foes, also having 252 hp EV's on Jirachi allows him to take 1 seismic toss without breaking the sub
  13. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
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    Now that I think about it, that is a pretty nasty threat...do you have any suggestions of as to how to counter it on a stall team? Seems as if my number one option is interpreting the switch, and hitting it with a burn before the sub goes up...
    Also, I tried out Sableye a couple times, and so far, it's working out really well. I dislike the fact that it's being OHKOed by come common leads, but foul play is really nice to have VS Espeon (not to mention it's not entirely uncommon for someone to switch into Espeon, expecting the WoW or taunt.)
  14. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
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    Hmm.. every stall team falls down against subCM Jirachi...the only option you have is i dont know...maybe sp. defensive heatran with roar. Try it
  15. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
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    Ok, last I'm going to respond to smaller posts individually (don't want to make it seems as if I'm post whoring)
    Anyway, I'd say there has to be some form of counter, asides from specially defensive Heatran with Roar. I'm suspecting a Physically defensive, Calm Mind Latias would do away with Jirachi pretty well.
    That being said, I'm relatively sure that form of Jirachi sees a very limited amount of use, and as a result, switching Gliscor (who walls all other sets of Jirachi) for Latias (who walls a select few) would be counter productive.

    Also, please, Rate my team from 1/100 =D
    Inbox me if you're afraid of being slapped with a warning. I'm just curious, and I'd love feedback more specific on EXACTLY how good it is.
    Once again, thanks to everyone who's been commenting so far =D! I've gotten a lot of good advice so far! Keep it coming!

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